Hey Guys, this is really a neat thread! You all know that FIERO JOHN-WI has been writing a book about the 1988 TTops, right? I don't know his status, but I'm sure there's much more to be said about the whole TTop thing, and I'll sure be interested in reading his book when it is finished. I've learned alot just from this thread. I have an 88GT with TTOPs, without the CJB code, and it does have the sticker under the decklid with the name "Quack" on it (you remembered it right RADAR!). Must have been an inside joke? From what I can tell, my car was modified at a dealership in San Diego, in July 1988. So, no RPO code, but still fun nevertheless.
Regarding pricing, I agree with the thoughts above, that future price differences between CJB and non-CJB 88s will be small. The only exception I can see is if the car is one of a really low number of TTop cars made (Silver, Yellow Formula CJB cars), or the car is in a very low mileage/great condition car. But, of course, the old rule that the price is only as high as a seller will pay is the bottom line.
Just a closing comment. Before I bought my current car (a Medium Red Met/Grey 88GT with 5spd, leather, and non-CJB ttops) I also looked at another car with the same options except it was a CJB car. Turns out, it was built in the same production run of Medium Red Met., about 80 cars away from the one I eventually bought! They were about the same price, but the reason I went with the non-CJB car was it was in a much better condition, and the CJB car owner admitted he had been in a small accident and had put big honking speakers behind the seats by cutting into the way back there. Now, as much as I wanted that CJB car, overall considerations demanded that I go with the one I eventually bought. Now, four years later, I still feel that I made the right choice, and am very happy with a non-CJB car. If I had had two identical cars to choose from, then I'd prob have gone with the CJB one, I just don't think I'd pay significantly more for one. But, in ten years, who can say! Who knows if most of these cars will either be so rundown and cheap as to be a joke, or so hard to come by that their value will make us wince at all the ones we saw in the junkyards. I don't know which to wish for!!! Sorry if I'm not making much sense. Me go bed now. very tired.

John Willhoff, 88 Database Guy

"88 Database Guy" (John) Thanks for your commits and the plug on the book I've been working on since the early 90's. I've learned here on the forum that some people want to learn about the fiero and others who think they know the fiero.(NO DISRESPECT TO ANY FIERO FORUM MEMBERS, JUST MAKING THIS CLEAR) I've also learned that I only tell facts about the fiero, not he said she said, or a friend of a friend who worked with said. Documentation only on my part is how I do it. But remember this is good old USA freedom of speech and opinions. I've never like to debate things, just facts, maybe thats why I never took it in high school and that was a LONG time ago. I just wanted to respond to one commit made that comparing I believe it was the Delorene to the t-top fiero and how it was more rare then the t-top fiero, I just wanted to put this out there for "Food for Thought" Alot of people did put away this car and thought they would make alot of money but haven;t seen it, well what the 88 (ship-thru)t-top fiero has going for it over that car is as follows:
Some will put the car away (TRUE)
1)The fiero is the 1# Kit Car chassis out there (That will take away a couple)
2)Some will drive them till the car dies(That will take away a few)
3)Fieros do start on fire (That will take away a few, just ask GTdude)
4)Some customize them so much they can't be put back to stock (That will take away a few)

They only made 1252 CJB (ship-thru)88 Fieros so how many will be left in bone stock? Time will only tell I guess? Just my 2 cents

PS I hope to have the complete sample copy of the book done by 20th anniversary.

AGAIN LET ME STATE THIS "THIS IS NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE ON THIS FIERO FORUM"

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 02-12-2003).]

Hey Fiero John, I'm sure you didn't offend anyone.

I think FieroMonkey was just trying to convey that the DMC never has gotten higher in price in TODAYS dollars than it sold for back in 81 82 and 83. Back in 82 the price for a brand spanking new Delorean was approx 27K. My friend has 2 super low mile Deloreans 8K and 4K respectively that he paid less than 16,000 for. The one he got for 10K!! They did make about 6500 to 7000 DMC's over the time they were in production. Thats total number of ALL cars built. Technically the 88 T-top is rarer in number count, but thousands of Fieros were built. I don't think these cars will skyrocket in value, sad but kinda like the Delorean. Bottom line is that for quite a number of years ANY Fiero regardless of year could have the Cars & Concepts T-tops installed. This one single item on the one off 88 year does have a certain appeal, but I think it almost has to be a buyer educated in Fierology to really understand the differences.

.02$ more to the pot!!

Hey John! Can't wait till your book comes out. I've got one totally stock one that will be around, barring some big ole truck modifying it for me or something...

Make sure and keep us informed on how to get the book!

84 Indy Fiero 72K orig paint
83 Lotus Esprit 19K orig paint
80 Turbo Trans Am 64K orig paint
92 GP/GTP 165K! orig paint
71 Mach1 ?K orig paint!!

indypbody (Tony),

Tell you what, I'll take that 84 SE that you have that is fixed up like a pace car AND I'll give you the going price for a nice 84 SE which I think $800.00 is more than fair. (must need more decals by now)
Your Lotus must be some sort of garage ornamate, so it is out of the running taking some of your other comments into consideration.
How aboout that turbo Trans AM? It has a few miles on it, I bet I can put one together the same way and might even be more car than yours is, of course it would have new paint, but factory original coler and producet used when assembled ant it's FINAL assembly point to which it is SHIPPED from Detroit for that purpose. ALL cars in this country are assembled in many different locations and don't come right out the door from it first factory to go to the dealer to sell to the consumer..
92 GP/GTP? The guy across the street has one, it has the original paint too, but has way less miles on it.
71 Mach1 ?K orig paint!! If you don't know how many miles are on it, how do you know it's the original paint? Was it a 'stolen' vehicle at some time that was stripped and the instrument cluster taken or what? Are you sure the rest of it is original?

Since you don't pay attention to the originally configuration as represented by DOCUMENTATION of the factory build, why are you so hung up on this disscussion?
I have 7 T-Top cars 5 are with the code that reflects items authourized the cars to be built with that option means just that, nothing more, nothing less. One of the other two is an 88 coupe and I will look for the sticker IF it went to C&C for the modification. The other car is an 87 SE which had the kit installed in November of 87 with 1400 miles on it. It was NOT installed by C&C or Fairmount Skylight, but I have the documentation on the install.
That car (the 87 SE) is also painted white which was NOT a selected color for the 87 model run yet it is here with (to coin a phrase) has the ORIGINAL PAINT still on it. How do I know all that, why by that little worthless tag you have little respect for. If you don't want one, why bring it up?

quote Originally posted by Songman: ...big ole truck...

Yup. Can always spot a native Southerner.

quote Originally posted by Songman: That is one bad thing about me being in CA, I have all of my old cars sitting in GA not being driven...

Heck, I'll drive 'em for ya!

BTW, Haven't forgotten the Monte Carlo wheel pics. Still have to dig them out from under all the Fiero parts.

Take care.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: 84 Indy Fiero 72K orig paint 83 Lotus Esprit 19K orig paint 80 Turbo Trans Am 64K orig paint 92 GP/GTP 165K! orig paint 71 Mach1 ?K orig paint!! indypbody (Tony), Tell you what, I'll take that 84 SE that you have that is fixed up like a pace car AND I'll give you the going price for a nice 84 SE which I think $800.00 is more than fair. (must need more decals by now)

Gee Resto guy, my 84 SE is just that EXCEPT it is a legit Pace Car replica from GM. The engine deck and original 14" white wheels were given to FieroMonkey to restore his Pacer. I modified mine to MY likeing regardless of the the way it was built as indicated by the option tag. Big deal. I buy my cars and modify them rare or not. I don't worry about taking a 2500$ car and changing it. Ooo whats the worst that could happen, I lose 2500 bucks? I enjoy making them better in some cases than they came from factory. Sound systems, suspensions etc. So you can keep your originality Different strokes for different folks

Oh yea, and my bastardized Pace car is probably worth LESS than 800 clams to a NUMBERS matching Fiero fanatic.

------------------
Tony
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84 Indy Fiero 72K orig paint
83 Lotus Esprit 19K orig paint
80 Turbo Trans Am 64K orig paint
92 GP/GTP 165K! orig paint
71 Mach1 ?K orig paint!!

[This message has been edited by indypbody (edited 02-13-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Heck, I'll drive 'em for ya! BTW, Haven't forgotten the Monte Carlo wheel pics. Still have to dig them out from under all the Fiero parts. Take care.

Yeah, I'm a Southerner! It would take more than California to change that! haha.. I've got most of the people I know out here saying 'Ya'll' and 'ain't'.

The old Monte is sitting right there beside the 87 GT... I hate leaving them sitting there like that! What if they become low mileage cars?!? haha... Oh wait! The Monte Carlo is low mileage.. but you know I don't like low mileage... sitting it tough on cars....

OK.. now I'm just rambling...

quote Originally posted by skitime: Still have the t-top parts to sell as well as the rear clip and 88 wheels. I bought the car for $3000 last summer.

I'll give ya $50 bucks for all the T-top parts.

LOL, you get-um Pbody! Thanks again for donating your Original Indy wheels and Decklid to my indy resto project.

And i fail to see how Pbody being proud of his original paint lessens any points he was trying to make. Not to mention being proud of his GTP. who cares how many there are out there, or if your neighbor has one. he takes good care of it and loves to drive it.

i have been to pbodys house once to see his car colection. So as far as all of his low mile cars go, yes they are all low mile cars. but he DRIVES them all. he just doesnt rake in a ton of miles on them because he has so many cars he has cycle them every couple of weeks or so. We should all be so lucky!

And as far as his Indy not being as valuable as a fully coded unaltered original goes. The nicest, cleanest "unaltered" low mile Indy pacer i have ever seen, only pulled in 4,700. After seeing and driving Pbodys bastardized Indy, i would be willing to say his is not only as clean and perfect as any indy i have seen 50k miles and under, but i would be willing to pay as much or more for his modified Indy than the nicest pure-breed. I am sure many others would agree after seeing and driving the car. wasnt there a fully pimped out 4.9 convertible caddy Fiero "Cadero" that got up to $24k or so on ebay a while back. there wasnt much Fiero left on that car...

------------------
Monkey
"No matter where I go...There's my car"

88 T-Top Formula ***NEW ARRIVAL, FIRST 88 FOR ME**
84 Indy 4-spd (work in progress)
87 T-Top GT 2.8/5-spd (Down but not out)
87 Hardtop GT 2.8/5-spd
97 Trans-AM WS6 6-spd
91 V8 Monster Miata 5spd
69 Mustang Coupe 302 4spd

http://members.cox.net/lothe/monstermovies.html

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: Hey songman, Pondski and I were talking about taking a road trip up in your area in the near future. will be nice to meet you and your collection =)

What about inviting me? I'm really NOT a T-top sourpuss!

-Tony

Ya'll come on up! The 'collection' is not all that much here.... Somebody bring a van and we'll all go to Georgia to see the collection!

You guys are invited up anytime. My schedule is pretty flexible and I would love to meet more of you...

...***sigh*** ok Pbody...i GUESS you can go man. haha, you know im just messing with you man. **in Dr. Evil voice** you complete me mini me =p

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: That's definitely not the case, seeing as how C&C had quite a number of "authorized installers" located around the country.

I guess I should clarify...Doesn’t matter if you ordered it pre 88 or not, the same "authorized C&C installers" did the pre 88's as well as the "factory" 88's. It's not like GM installed them in 88. I still think it was a way for GM to try to gain market share. Obviously due to logistics they had more then one location.
Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 02-14-2003).]

quote Originally posted by chester: I guess I should clarify...Dosen't matter if you ordered it pre 88 or not, the same "authorized C&C installers" did the pre 88's as well as the "factory" 88's. It's not like GM installed them in 88. I still think it was a way for GM to try to gain market share. Obviously due to logistics they had more then one location. Rob D.

Yep... that would be a correct statement then!

quote Originally posted by chester: I guess I should clarify...Doesn’t matter if you ordered it pre 88 or not, the same "authorized C&C installers" did the pre 88's as well as the "factory" 88's. It's not like GM installed them in 88. I still think it was a way for GM to try to gain market share. Obviously due to logistics they had more then one location. Rob D.

Maybe I am mis-interpreting what you said, but to clarify it further (and correct me if I've misunderstood you )......*ALL* CJB cars ("factory" '88 Fieros) were converted at the C&C shop in Brighton, MI. Aftermarket/non-CJB cars could be converted at the C&C shop *or* an authorized C&C dealer across the country.

While it is true that GM did not install the T-Tops on the factory floor in Pontiac, they were immediately "shiiped thru" to C&C in Brighton (not too far from Pontiac) for the conversion. They were then sent back to GM who sent them to various dealers around the country.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: Maybe I am mis-interpreting what you said, but to clarify it further (and correct me if I've misunderstood you )......*ALL* CJB cars ("factory" '88 Fieros) were converted at the C&C shop in Brighton, MI. Aftermarket/non-CJB cars could be converted at the C&C shop *or* an authorized C&C dealer across the country. While it is true that GM did not install the T-Tops on the factory floor in Pontiac, they were immediately "shiiped thru" to C&C in Brighton (not too far from Pontiac) for the conversion. They were then sent back to GM who sent them to various dealers around the country.

Yes, I believe that to be true... All CJB cars were done at the same place.

MrFiero, yes you are correct INFACT: ALL the 1988 Fiero (ship-thru)t-top option cars were built in Brighton, MI, at the C&C's main production facilities and plant #2, also located in Brighton as well. No where else for the ship-thru fieros!