I am posting contact information for a shop that has Hi-Tech Ultrasonic Equipment that hardens and stress relieves metallic parts. This process does not dimensionally change your parts at all, just have your parts treated and re-assemble.
While this applies to all metal parts, here are estimates for a manual transmission:
Transmission Internals (gears/shafts) $75.00 plus shipping. Trans Case and Internals (all parts but dis-assembled) $100.00 plus shipping. Trans Case Only $50.00 plus shipping.
Contact: Benson's Performance Machine Inc. 2909 So. Kilson Santa Ana, CA. 92707 Phone: 714-241-1284 ask for Dan.
I know very little about the technical specifics of this process, you should direct those questions directly to Dan for responses that aren't guesses. I do know that race teams do have parts treated with this process to improve the parts strenght and durability in high performance applications. Don't know the % improvement in strenght, but it's certainly better than using stock parts, which is the main reason I opted for doing it on my trans parts.
Basically the process re-aligns molecules in the metal and also stress relieves at the same time. Sorry I don't have more details, but when I have a real good gut feeling something works, I go for it without getting all the hardcore specifics. That may sound like a rash statement, but I've got over 25 years engineering experience to make these judgement calls from. What little I've heard was enough to say "Heck yes, there aren't any other real cost effective measures to improve the parts".
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10:37 AM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Are the effects of ultrasonic and cryogenic treatments cumulative?
I was told that the processes yeild the same results on strength improvement, however the Ultrasonic treatment doesn't require the parts to be machined after treatment. Note: My parts were tied up for 2 months because they required 4 seperate treatment cycles before the parts were completely stress relieved.
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10:43 AM
1986GTV8 Member
Posts: 1259 From: Orlando,FL,USA Registered: Mar 2002
The estimated cost above is for full treatment of parts, not individual cycles required.
Hard to say what "Norm" is as all parts are a little different, some may only require one or two cycles.
You should send parts in dis-assembled stage as he will charge if he has to take anything apart. He will tear it down for processing if necessary, but it's best to contact him to discuss this item, the gears/shafts can be processed as an assembly.
Note to the high HP people: I haven't done this yet, but am considering have a set of inboard CV Joints processed (they are currently my fuse in the driveline). Just something to think about if you're shipping some parts to him.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-23-2003).]
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11:31 AM
opm2000 Member
Posts: 1347 From: Versailles, Ky USA Heart of the Bluegrass Registered: Dec 2000
Stress relieving metal refers to realigning the molecular grain of the metal after welding has occured.
Us old timers who oxy/actylene weld chromoloy steel will keep the welded joint rosy red after the weld is finished, and gently heat the entire area about 2" + of the surrounding steel. When everything is heated to a sunset red, the heat is slowly taken away.
And an entire assymbly of many welds can be brought to the same state by the same methods instead of doing each joint one at a time.
I have done this many times on several aircraft fuselages and weldaments which I have fabricated over the years.
The process is critical with chromoloy steel which is used in aircraft and race cars. It is less critical with mild steel parts which are way over engineered with respect to thickness and weight of steel for a given part. But it would still be of benifit if done. I don't think car manufactures bother with it too often:>
If this ultrasonic process achieves the same thing, it would be nice.
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12:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
FieroHarry Member
Posts: 1809 From: Virginia Beach VA Registered: Apr 2001
Stress relieving metal refers to realigning the molecular grain of the metal after welding has occured.
Us old timers who oxy/actylene weld chromoloy steel will keep the welded joint rosy red after the weld is finished, and gently heat the entire area about 2" + of the surrounding steel. When everything is heated to a sunset red, the heat is slowly taken away.
And an entire assymbly of many welds can be brought to the same state by the same methods instead of doing each joint one at a time.
I have done this many times on several aircraft fuselages and weldaments which I have fabricated over the years.
The process is critical with chromoloy steel which is used in aircraft and race cars. It is less critical with mild steel parts which are way over engineered with respect to thickness and weight of steel for a given part. But it would still be of benifit if done. I don't think car manufactures bother with it too often:>
If this ultrasonic process achieves the same thing, it would be nice.
It's important to note that some stresses are induced into parts during machining, and casting processes. You are very correct that manufacturer don't bother with the secondary processes, they over engineer the part to compensate for it (which is probably why the Getrag takes a lot more torque than it was intended to), because it's too costly and time consuming to do secondary operations unless it's critical.
For those of us who have chosen to push the limits of our equipment, this process does lend the advantage to improving the stock parts to a higher level of performance.
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07:44 PM
Mar 24th, 2003
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
I was told that the processes yeild the same results on strength improvement, however the Ultrasonic treatment doesn't require the parts to be machined after treatment. Note: My parts were tied up for 2 months because they required 4 seperate treatment cycles before the parts were completely stress relieved.
I was told that cryogenic treatment doesn't require machining, either. I've seen it advertised for whole firearms to make them cycle and fire more smoothly and reliably. Do you know of any places to do this treatment closer to FL than CA?
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06:59 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
I was told that cryogenic treatment doesn't require machining, either. I've seen it advertised for whole firearms to make them cycle and fire more smoothly and reliably. Do you know of any places to do this treatment closer to FL than CA?
When I did some research on the cryogenic process the couple articles I read did state that some minor machining was necessary in some cases. There could be a couple different processes and more advancements in the process that I'm not aware of (I do believe it's more costly though).
I only found out about the Ultrasonic Process because my cousin knows the business owner I posted (they live on the same street). I'm sure there are more machines like it around the US, but I did a quick search on the net and nothing showed up, so I took the easy way out because it was faster to get the parts back in time for this season. The Ultrasonic Machine costs $100,000 so you'll have to search for a speciality shop that does performance and/or Hi-Tech part processes, Metal Heat Treating Companies may be a place to start as they may also offer that type of processing.
Tom
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-25-2003).]
When I did some research on the cryogenic process the couple articles I read ... [COLOR=Blue[/COLOR]
I would be very interested in reading the articles you mentioned.
I always thought hardening and stress relieving were processes that had opposite results. Hardening a material will make it stronger yes, but it also will become more brittle i.e. less impact resistance. On the other hand, stress relieving "softens" a material. This process lowers a materials strength, but it makes it "tougher" and therefore more resistant to impact related damage/failure. You can stress relieve by heat, as mentioned in an earlier post, or through other processes.
Sooo, my "guess" is the process your guy uses involves stress relieving the parts to improve the overall toughness of the component and then harden in the surface area only to give the improved wear resistance. You gain the benefits of both processes.
But... I'm still a bit surprise that machining after this muti-step process is not required. In my line of work the final machining always occurs after a part is stress relieved and/or hard faced. Granted I don't build transmissions but the stuff I deal with still has machining tolerances in the thousandths.
Anyhow, it's never to late for an old dog to learn something new, so if you can post a link to the articles you mentioned that would be great.
Sorry for the rambling reply.
TIA
Karl
[This message has been edited by tejas (edited 03-26-2003).]
When I did some research on the cryogenic process the couple articles I read ...
I would be very interested in reading the articles you mentioned.
I always thought hardening and stress relieving were processes that had opposite results. Hardening a material will make it stronger yes, but it also will become more brittle i.e. less impact resistance. On the other hand, stress relieving "softens" a material. This process lowers a materials strength, but it makes it "tougher" and therefore more resistant to impact related damage/failure. You can stress relieve by heat, as mentioned in an earlier post, or through other processes.
Sooo, my "guess" is the process your guy uses involves stress relieving the parts to improve the overall toughness of the component and then harden in the surface area only to give the improved wear resistance. You gain the benefits of both processes.
But... I'm still a bit surprise that machining after this muti-step process is not required. In my line of work the final machining always occurs after a part is stress relieved and/or hard faced. Granted I don't build transmissions but the stuff I deal with still has machining tolerances in the thousandths.
Anyhow, it's never to late for an old dog to learn something new, so if you can post a link to the articles you mentioned that would be great.
Sorry for the rambling reply.
TIA
Karl
[COLOR=Blue][This message has been edited by tejas (edited 03-26-2003).][/QUOTE]
Hardening may be the wrong word to use, just use it to try to describe "molecular re-alignment" which is what the Ultrasonic process does. Like I said above, anyone really interested should call Business I posted for specific information on what the process does.
Articles I found on 'Cryo' were web based and I didn't save them or bookmark sites. Use a couple search engines to locate on the web.
To those who asked about other parts, this process works on all metals.
