Edited because it was not appropriate for me to participate in this discussion. I apologize to everyone, especially the members of the club I represent.

Chuck Hodges

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 05-07-2003).]

quote Originally posted by ACSCAR: .....SO those who can't appreciate the hard work that is put into organizing all of this and what not try it your self and see how hard it is or shut up. My hat off to Phill and Gloria for they're hard work and dedication. A,C, Dobson II 88formula 84SE ps I'm not afraid to put my name out why are those who complain don't hhhhhmmmm

You obviously don't know then that from what everyone has always said about the FOCOA shows that the Huffs arguably put on, that Phil and Gloria don't do as much as you apparently think they do.
Most of it is on the backs of others.
Yes, it is a lot of work to put on a show, but make sure you give kudos to those who are actually deserving of it. The Huffs apparently rely on a few of their own still blinded club members as well as other associated clubs and their small percentage of kiss butt members to do most of it. Someone please correct me here if I am wrong? Curry's statement here is a prime example of that. You and ws6fiero are obviously a very small minority that has had nothing but good dealings with FOCOA thru the years apparently. If most of us here in the Fiero community that have been taken had instead been as fortunate as you two, I am sure this wouldn't even be discussed like this today. Things only reach this level after many many bad experineces have taken place.
As for not putting our names out, give us all a break. Between the fact that many post at least their first names, not to mention the profile and e-mail features on here and the fact that almost everyone here has a web site, I must ask what new illegal drug are you sniffing to make that clueless statement?

Curry, you say FOCOA is here to stay? Is this your own bizaar little dream? Maybe in Phils and Glorias eyes it maybe here to stay, and obviously in yours based on your incredible post here.
If you and the Huffs still want to live in a fantasy world where poeple getting ripped off is the norm and not the exception and think they will happily come back for more (Thank you sir, may I have another?) then you are all truly dreaming. We can all dream I guess, just like those of us who never got what we paid for can dream that someday we might get actually receive it or a refund.
Is FOCOA really going to survive and be here to stay? They say that cigaretts will survive no matter how many cities and states continue to ban and outlaw it, so I guess for the Huffs there is still some hope.
There is also a saying that after a nuclear war, only two things will survive. Cockroaches and Cher.
You might be able to add the Huffs to that list (assuming they don't fall under the first of the two) as they do seem to have a knack of surviving.

Steve Kelley
Plainfield, NH
Spring 2000. Paid for a FOCOA membership kit and a complete full newsletter back issue set and got ZERO in return. Oh, I did get some lovely parting e-mail gifts from Gloria though

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Oh my, I cannot believe that you have just said this. You are either dumber than owl $hit , just plain clueless or you are just as bad as Phil and Gloria.

Have you ever MET Curry? I have. At the FOCOA Nationals in Williamsburg VA. My first, AND LAST FOCOA show. Curry loved playing the HMFIC, but wasn't much help when people had complaints about things that weren't going well.

FOCOA had been doing these shows for how long? I went to the Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show in Raliegh, NC later that year. It was their 1st attempt at a show, and it was better run and had much higher quality trophies than the ones given by FOCOA. Computer printous laminated to a trophy. What class. What style.

If Curry wants proof, well, he was there. He knows what got screwed up. His reply when I pressed him on some issues? "Phil doesn't kick as much a$$ as me." That was the help Curry offered at the FOCOA Nationals.

Curry, you're part of the problem, so of course you don't see it. You want proof of our problems? Why don't you provide proof you haven't had any problems?

John P. Miller
Raleigh, NC

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-06-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: There is also a saying that after a nuclear war, only two things will survive. Cockroaches and Cher.

Is there a difference between the two? lol
Sorry i had to.

When I purchased 2nd new fiero in 87 (a black 87 GT auto), I drove down to FOCOA shop and Keith installed my new rear anti-sway bar. I met Phil and Gloria and had a good time on that trip. That was my only dealing with them.

In the past year, I have tried to contact them on about 5 occasions and each time I have left answering machine messages and emails. NO RESPONSE. One of those calls was to offer free web hosting / website development services after they lost their domain name.

So while I haven't been burned by them, they obviously don't care enough to pick up the phone to talk to customers, return phone calls, or answer email to even present the appearance of trying to "support" the Fiero community. I don't know what has happened between 87 and now, but I certainly can't support/recommend them with their current attitude now.

Robert Beaubien
Glendale, Arizona

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www.fieroexcitement.com
Rate me if I've been helpful! :)

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: There is also a saying that after a nuclear war, only two things will survive. Cockroaches and Cher.

Cher?

Their service to the Fiero community has greatly diminished over time. I don't feel I was ever ripped off by them, but when they started combining magazine issues, and missing them, it was the writing on the wall. Either they cannot, or will not put the time into running the club that is needed, and are putting out inferior work. As I see it FOCOA is no longer a great asset to the Fiero community, and has been eclipsed by others.

Edited because it was not appropriate for me to participate in this discussion. I apologize to everyone, especially the members of the club I represent.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 05-07-2003).]

Link dont work.
HIOSILVER

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: For example, consider this thread... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20020511-1-014360.html. The point being he/she is a staunch supporter of FOCOA but feels they must hide their identity.

Maybe we can get George Miller to take over for fPhil? I hear he's unemployed ..

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Boomtastic

quote Originally posted by HIOSILVER!: Link dont work.

Thanks. Fixed.

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: Maybe we can get George Miller to take over for fPhil? I hear he's unemployed ..

That would certainly get a few people's attention.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Have you ever MET Curry? I have. Curry, you're part of the problem, so of course you don't see it. You want proof of our problems? Why don't you provide proof you haven't had any problems? John P. Miller Raleigh, NC

Nope, I honestly have not. But I haven't met fPhil either, though I have established what I think is a pretty good opinion of him based on his actions and his inactions, what he has done and what he NEVER done, what he has said and in the case of the forum here, what he has NEVER said. That goes for Mrs Huffy Gloriette as well.
As for Curry, I am quickly establishing my opinion of him and FOCOSEVA based on his recent statements here. I am now waiting with anticipation for his next brilliantly printed comment on here to see how close I think I am

Steve Kelley
Plainfield, NH

Just for the record, I've had some not-so-stellar experience with FOCOA as well. But this was in the late 1990s. I stopped paying membership dues after 1998 and moved on.

It's too bad, because some of the tech articles in the quarterly magazine were really good. That is, when I actually received the magazines...

FOCOA really does need new management. Despite all the problems with Phil Huff et al, I'd hate to see FOCOA itself go down the gutter. FOCOA has a history. At one time, it was arguably the best Fiero club around. That time has passed. But, if Phil were to let go of FOCOA (like that'll ever happen right?) and let some more community-minded individuals take over and run it more like a non-profit organization than a business, FOCOA just might have a future. But the way things are now, FOCOA's future looks pretty grim.

That's my 2 cents anyway

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-06-2003).]

quote Originally posted by ACSCAR: SO those who can't appreciate the hard work that is put into organizing all of this and what not try it your self and see how hard it is or shut up. My hat off to Phill and Gloria for they're hard work and dedication. A,C, Dobson II 88formula 84SE ps I'm not afraid to put my name out why are those who complain don't hhhhhmmmm

Well, I've organized a few events on different things, Yes it is very hard work. But from what I've read, Phil rarely does any of the leg work. He just makes a few reservations, assigns tasks, and provides advertising. Your more than welcome to tip your hat off to the Huff's, Just don't take your eyes off of them.

By the way, Those who want proof:
Name: David Kopielski
Lifetime Membership paid (check cleared) on 12 June 1989
(Note: was an annual member from 1987 thru 1989) with Check # 734 Issued from Household Bank in Schaumburg, ILL. (yes I decided to look thru my records for exact dates!)
I have received approximately 7 magazines. The first 5 are in order, then the next issue was not received, the next one was received (after calling to find out what happened to the previous one) then the next 2 issues never arrived. Called again, received the next issue. The next 2 were never received, Called and was told I was not a "lifetime member", was called a scam artist, and threatened with "legal action" if I did not cease trying to rip them off. At this point the "youthful rebel" in me (along with my anger) took over and the conversation went into the trashcan.

If FOCOA wants to clear up this matter, Just have them send me ALL the back issues from 1992 until present day or refund my lifetime membership. They can contact me thru my Email address.

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000:

edited cuz 2nd hand info is a B!tch

[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 05-06-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 05-08-2003).]

Edited because it was not appropriate for me to participate in this discussion. I apologize to everyone, especially the members of the club I represent.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 05-07-2003).]

Readin this thread gives me a sense of deja vu. Not only the deja vu of every thread that mentions FOCOA being about something else that the didn't do that they promised...

It also reminds me of Terry Owens trying to take up for George Miller and the Fiero Shop too. Terry and I had quite a few discussions about that and even though George's reputation kept getting worse and worse for what he was doing, Terry kept right on trying to defend him - right up until the time George stabbed him in the back!

Watch your back, Curry. You've been lucky so far, but luck don't last forever. Hope you don't get it as bad as Terry did! It took him a long time to dig out from under it. As someone mentioned above, putting your name on the reputation of someone of dubious character also puts your character on the line. You need to choose wisely before you do it.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-06-2003).]

Wow, this thread has hit upon just about every person I'd personally stay away from. Of course there is one more, but I'm not gonna mention it right now.

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Mike

quote Originally posted by FOCOSEVA: "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." Curry Obenshain '86 SE 3800SC 5 speed

Words to preach and not heed?

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"If you want to blend in, take the bus!"
fieroharry@yahoo.com
FOCOSEVA & CFOG-I
FieroHarryW AOIM

quote Originally posted by FieroHarry: Words to preach and not heed?

Now now Harry, do you want to not get invited to the club meets?

Steven <---- not a member of FOCOA or FOCOSEVA

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88 Fiero coupe 2.5 5 speed, Custom IHI RHB6 turbo equipped, gutted and track abused
88 Coupe Project "F-88" has begun....Classified TOP SECRET **your gonna love this**
88 Fiero Coupe 2.5/auto Not sure what I am going to do to this one!
87 Fiero GT 14.9/ 89mph **4.9 PFI swap in progress**
87 Fiero Coupe 91k miles
86 Fiero SE
88 Mazda RX-7 'vert SBC v8 383/T-5
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.

Looks like I've missed out on some good times.

-James

Now here is something I dont understand. If FOCOA is ripping off so many people, how are they still having meets/functions etc. Wouldn't they be worried about angry mobs of ripped off customers? I know I would be first inline to put foot to ass.

Steven

That's the spirit Steven-let's get em. No one who rips off the Fiero community should be permitted to get away with it. Perhaps Phil cancelled the FOCOA show this year because he knows that there would be too many people there ready to throw fists.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

How's this for irony: I bought a replacement clutch pedal from FOCOA and GEORGE MILLER told me I was being ripped off! The kettle calling the pot black..

quote Originally posted by FOCOSEVA: So you want me to believe your story, and not believe anything else, huh? I've seen no evidence of any ripoffs by FOCOA. I've read allegations, but that's all - no evidence. I've been a member of the Fiero community since 1986, why haven't I ever been ripped off, as you say you have? Why haven't I ever had any problems with them? Why would certain people be singled out and victimized, while others are not? It doesn't make sense. Curry Obenshain

Proof...Proof...You want proof...

Well I will go back three years ago, and find my bank statement that shows FOCOA cashing my check for lifetime membership.
And then I will acquire the post office records...Gemme a brake.. Why should WE have to show YOU proof!..Would it do anything for
you anyway...If you have had good experiences, then good for you...

>Why would certain people be singled out and victimized, while others are not?

Well you see it happens like this. (I know because I have been a business owner in the recent past)
You send the guy you're cash. And if he is having a good month, all bills payed, wife happy, then you will
most likely get you're items. However if you send the guy you're cash during a bad month, PGE wants
quick cash to keep power on, wife not happy with flowers anymore, needs a fur coat, mistress
has special birthday coming up and needs those diamond earrings!...the mother ****ing list goes on!...

So do you're self a favor and just SAVE IT!..
We are happy that things are good for you, so just enjoy it while you can.

I guess FOCOSEVA left since he couldn't convince most of us FOCOA was a "good" thing.

The trust with FOCOA is gone. If Phil and Gloria manage to stay in business, it will take a long time to repair the damage that they've caused, before I would even consider using them as a parts source again.

There are too many other sources that make good parts for our beloved cars. So FOCOSEVA, I hope you're luck continues, but watch you're back very closely with FOCOA.

Earl R.

quote Originally posted by FieroGT87: I guess FOCOSEVA left since he couldn't convince most of us FOCOA was a "good" thing.

I was going to point out that this has turned into a one sided debate too. Curry you out there? Curry how much did Phil help you setup the national show your club participated in? How did we end up with no bathrooms avaliable at the show?

quote Originally posted by skitime: I was going to point out that this has turned into a one sided debate too. Curry you out there? Curry how much did Phil help you setup the national show your club participated in? How did we end up with no bathrooms avaliable at the show?

The problems with the lack of bathrooms was hashed out two years ago. The vendor who was to deliver the porta potties to the parking area, failed to deliver as scheduled. But I guess that no one else has had a vendor fail to deliver. Since this was FOCOA, lets kick them around some more.

[This message has been edited by Old Lar (edited 05-07-2003).]

quote Originally posted by skitime: Curry, .... How did we end up with no bathrooms avaliable at the show?

Wow! That must have been fun
That brings to mind that commecial where this business man stops at a gas station and as he goes to open the door to the restroom on the side of the gas station building, some little kid dressed up like a little cowboy beats him thru the door.
You then see the poor guy squirming and pinching his legs together while making that painfull face we are all farmiliar with all the while waiting for the kid to come back out of the restroom. Meanwhile, the kid is in the bathroom not using it for a #1 or a #2, but instead is standing and posing in front of the mirror checking out how quick a draw he is with his toy shooters

I can just picture all of these Fiero owners standing proudly next to their rides, squirming and pinching their legs together while making that painfull face.

I hereby pronounce this thread DONE. Head back to your homes.... move along... nothing to see here...

Here is the thread telling my story about my dealings with FOCOA and the many responses: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20010706-1-004233.html
Where did the Curry dude from FOCOSEVA go? He posted once to start this thread and has since dissapeared. Kinda like what happens when you send money to FOCOA

quote Originally posted by stimpy: Yep, as long as there are gullible people to rip off, FOCOA will be around to take their money. SUCKERS! Hahahahaha!

They got my azz... once! "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"

Not to stir things even more, but this question was posed to me, and it's a valid one: What happens to all the stuff in the "museum" if FOCOA is going bye-bye? Who owns it? I mean legally, real-world.

quote Originally posted by Denny: Not to stir things even more, but this question was posed to me, and it's a valid one: What happens to all the stuff in the "museum" if FOCOA is going bye-bye? Who owns it? I mean legally, real-world.

FOCOA has (had) quite a collection of Fiero memorabilia and even acquired the Fiero sign on the GM facility where the cars were made. Like everything else about FOCOA, it is a privately owned business and as such everything is the property of Phil Huff. When Phil decides to retire or passes on, I beleive that everything will either be sold or auctioned off. Unlike a true car club, the membership ( customers) have no say, no voice no rights or claim to any of this property.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

That could get complicated. First who owns the Muesem? Is it part of FOCOA or seperate from FOCOA?

Second who originally bought the items in the muesem and did individuals loan the items to the muesem or did the individuals give them to the muesem?

If the items are on loan then those items belong to the people who purchased them and then in turned loaned them to the muesem.

If the items were given to or bought by the muesem then the muesem owns them.

If the Huff's own the museum and it is part of FOCOA and it goes out of business and they owe creditors then the courts could order those items sold to pay creditors. If the Huff's(FOCOA) don't owe anyone and they decide to close thier doors any items owned by the muesum belong to that museum or the Huff's.

I could go on.... I'm making alot of assumptions here. Alot more information is needed before you can say who owns what. Like I said it could get complicated.

But I'll step out on a limb here and say the Huff's own it all can do what they want with it reguardless of what the Fiero community would want.

Earl R.

quote Originally posted by Sacred: Looks like I've missed out on some good times. -James

ya, no sh!t, im suprized this isnt in the trash can yet

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Rich
white 86 se, 2" drop, coil overs, KYB's. CRX intake, ported manifolds