quote Originally posted by Songman: Looks like that US Waiver thing is what you need but you'd have to get started on it. It says that a Canadian Pardon is not recognized by the US anyway. It says as long as the offense if over 5 years old you can probably get it. Also, can be had in as little as 3 months. There is a link on that page you listed earlier.

ohhhh ok, I read your post wrong before yah, she replied to my email and said that he'd need a waiver to get into the U.S.. She said that it takes 2-3 months to get ready for submission and about 4 weeks for approval. She also left me a phone number so i'll talk to my dad today and get him to call them up and explain everything and see if he can get a waiver. The only bad thing is that we wouldn't know if he's been approved until very close to the show. But i'll keep updating you guys.

Chris.

Chuck, could you tell me exactly what the banquet is? I know there's a dinner, but how long is it, and what else is there? And if I register for the $30 without the banquet ticket, could I get one later if I decided I want to go?

quote Originally posted by sqoach: Chuck, could you tell me exactly what the banquet is? I know there's a dinner, but how long is it, and what else is there? And if I register for the $30 without the banquet ticket, could I get one later if I decided I want to go?

The banquet will be food, a birthday cake for the 84 Fiero, Hulki & the other guests will speak, and other announcements (the awards presentation is open to everyone after the banquet). I'd guess it will take at least 2 hours. You should be able to get a banquet ticket later - IF they aren't sold out.

how many tickets are going to be sold?

Chris.

Ok, looks like one route will go right thru Cincinnati, OH (on I-75) as I suspected...

Any way we can meet someplace (like the Hooters on the river for example) and take some pics? Also, what time is everybody planning on going?

I tried to use the Yahoo groups but about every other link you click on there gives me an error, then when I tried to post it told me that my email keeps bouncing so I've given up on it. I'll just use this thread for what the yahoo groups thingy was supposed to be.

Rob

86 SE V6 4 Speed

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86 SE V6 4 Speed

I'm cheap and on a budget (have to be, I own a race car) so I want to minimize expenses. Are there any campgrounds anywhere close to there? If I could save $75 a night on lodging then I could drink more beer and buy more goodies. :-)

------------------
Doug Chase
'88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (autocrosser)
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd (daily driver)
'85 Fiero GT 5-spd (rally car)
Custom roll cage fabrication available

quote Originally posted by Doug Chase: I'm cheap and on a budget (have to be, I own a race car) so I want to minimize expenses. Are there any campgrounds anywhere close to there? If I could save $75 a night on lodging then I could drink more beer and buy more goodies. :-)

yes, there are campgrounds around Pontiac. I cant think of any names of any off hand, but if your gonna do a search, I think Holly Township would be a good area around Pontiac to look for a camp site. I'm pretty sure there are Kao & Yogi Bear campsites around there also. If theres more intrest in this, I could do a little leg work here locally to find someplace that wont have a problem with a small crowd, lotsa beer & a big bonfire.

edit: if your gonna do a search, your looking for something in "oakland county, michigan". also, a nice place: http://www.co.oakland.mi.us/parksrec/ppark/add_camp.html

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 02-26-2003).]

This has probably already been asked!! The events and location of events has changed several times since the planning started. Can anyone post what the current schedule of events are with dates and times? What the $$ for those events would be helpful. I don't need to know about the cost of car show and room rate. Thanks, Buck.

quote Originally posted by BUCK WILLIAMS: Can anyone post what the current schedule of events are with dates and times? What the $$ for those events would be helpful.

A web page is being built for that very purpose at this time, and should be ready very soon. You can visit it at http://www.cfogi.org/anniversary.htm (use the buttons on the left), but there are a lot of updates to be done on the Schedule of Events page, so take it with a grain of salt for a few days. The exact times and costs aren't there yet either, but they're coming.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 02-27-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Doug Chase: I'm cheap and on a budget (have to be, I own a race car) so I want to minimize expenses. Are there any campgrounds anywhere close to there? If I could save $75 a night on lodging then I could drink more beer and buy more goodies. :-)

Yes, there are a few around. The closest one is probably Pontiac Lake Recreation Area. For info you can call 248-666-1020. There is another a bit farther North (18 miles) near Holly, Mi. I believe it's called Groveland Oaks.

grrr I hate this sh*t! now im not going again. i showed my dad the thing about the waiver and he looked into it and it costs something like $500 everytime you want to go into the U.S. and my dad doesnt wanna pay that much. and he doesnt even think that they'd give him a waiver. I found out what's on his record, from 11 or 12 years ago there's something because he threatened someone. and from a long long time ago like at least 30 years they have something for "SUSPITION of drug trafficking", which is only because he knew a guy that was busted for drug trafficking many many years ago so they linked him to it, and shouldnt it even matter for SUSPITION? isn't it inocent until proven guilty? so if it's just a suspition from that long ago wouldn't he be inocent? and as for the threat thing, my mom thinks that he would probably be allowed to cross the border, she said that she thinks there was only like a certain amount of years that he wasn't allowed in the country for, is this possible? I mean my dads like the least likely person to do anything wrong, he's a 61 year old bald man who's the Director at a Treatment Center.

well I know thats a lot of reading but I had to vent cuz im so mad I wanna go to this show so bad!!!!!
but I WILL be there! I dunno how but i'll find a way to be there, i'll save as much money as i have to, find a job, do anything, but I WILL be there!
thanks for listening

Chris.

[This message has been edited by wpgfiero (edited 02-27-2003).]

Track event information and registration links are now on the first post of this thread, for Waterford track and Milan drags. The autocross is still under negotiation.

[This message has been edited by CFOG-International (edited 07-09-2003).]

quote Originally posted by CFOG-International: Race information and registration links are now on the first post of this thread, for Waterford track and Milan drags. The autocross is still under negotiation.

I have a question about the registration fee. Is the $80.00 (non-CFOG member) for the road racing only. What about just doing a "parade" lap and not acually competing in the races? Will there be a entry fee for spectating? I know the track usually charges something like $5-10 for there normal race days for spectators and an additional $15-20 for pit passes.

quote Originally posted by turbotoad: I have a question about the registration fee. Is the $80.00 (non-CFOG member) for the road racing only. What about just doing a "parade" lap and not acually competing in the races? Will there be a entry fee for spectating? I know the track usually charges something like $5-10 for there normal race days for spectators and an additional $15-20 for pit passes.

Unfortunately, that $65/$80 entry is just for the track day. Anybody that has done a High Speed Touring event, or HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) as NASA calls it, will tell you that this is pretty inexpensive.

Without burdening anyone with the overall financial picture of hosting this type event, I will just say that in order to simply break even at the $65 fee, we will have to have 100 entries. You can break that down to each of the 100 cars paying the following:
1) $40 for insurance
2) $15 track and equipment rental (Includes ambulance, wrecker, communication,etc.)
3) $10 for support personnel - corner workers, announcer, catering, security, etc.

There will be A $5 gate charged for spectators over 12 (anybody not registered as a driver). That will get them anywhere at Waterford - pits and paddock, etc. There will be no "pit pass" per se. All we ask is that once a driver puts his car in grid, that driver be left to himself.

I hadn't thought about a Parade Lap because this is a "gentleman's rules" type event anyway - - no passing except on designated straights, etc. It will be consist of a minimum of three 20 minute sessions of high speed driving - at least an hour of seat time! I will give the "Parade Lap" concept some thought, however. It might be a good idea - - Thanks!

------------------
George Ryan
Performance Director
CFOG-I

[This message has been edited by cadero2dmax (edited 03-06-2003).]

quote Originally posted by cadero2dmax: There will be A $5 gate charged for spectators over 12 (anybody not registered as a driver). That will get them anywhere at Waterford - pits and paddock, etc. There will be no "pit pass" per se. All we ask is that once a driver puts his car in grid, that driver be left to himself.

Great price for spectators!

quote I had't thought about a Parade Lap because this is a "gentleman's rules" type event anyway - - no passing on straights, etc. It will be consist of a minimum of three 20 minute sessions of high speed driving - at least an hour of seat time! I will give the "Parade Lap" concept some thought, however. It might be a good idea - - Thanks!

Yeah, I was thinking it would be awsome to be able to drive just one lap around the track and maybe have a photo taken. perhaps a $5-$10 fee could be charged for the opportunitiy. However, the logistics and legalities may not allow for such an idea. But it sure would be cool to at least have a chance to drive around the track once.

quote Originally posted by turbotoad: Yeah, I was thinking it would be awsome to be able to drive just one lap around the track and maybe have a photo taken. perhaps a $5-$10 fee could be charged for the opportunitiy. However, the logistics and legalities may not allow for such an idea. But it sure would be cool to at least have a chance to drive around the track once.

Let me discuss a couple thoughts here.

You will note I changed the break-even $ in my letter above. We will break even with a hundred entries at the members rate of $65.

If you will note, a Non-Member participating in both the drag race and the track day at the 20th will have spent the exact same amount as if they had joined and paid their annual club dues, plus the non-member rates for those two events. They would then be eligible to participate in some of the other things being planned (another track day is on tap this fall, a drag race and autocross is being planned for Ed's Swap Meet, plus other activities and shows over the next year).

About the Parade Lap. With only 4 1/2 hours to give 100 entrants three 20 minute sessions (an hour seat time) as promised, it will take a lot of advanced planning and organization. I don't think the insurance (which is the big driver on these things) would be a problem. I will announce something about whether or not a Parade Lap will be offered in the next 2 weeks on this thread.

------------------
George Ryan
Performance Director
CFOG-I

From past experience (FOCOA at Gateway International national show), you will be hard pressed to get 100 Fiero owners (break even point) to pony up $65 for the fun of running on the racetrack.

I ran Gateway then, but far too many thought the $50 was way over priced. The break even point was 100 people also. FOCOA made up the difference. I hope that you have a contingency plan in place.

I expect there will be the need for a crash helmet for the drivers, so those that want to be on the track should own one or be prepared to buy one.

I'll have to say the experience on the track was a lot of fun. I was suprised just how well my stock 87 GT ran and that I was able to keep the car on that track through the road course. But I'll be a spectator this time.

quote Originally posted by Rob Ernst: Ok, looks like one route will go right thru Cincinnati, OH (on I-75) as I suspected... Any way we can meet someplace (like the Hooters on the river for example) and take some pics? Also, what time is everybody planning on going? I tried to use the Yahoo groups but about every other link you click on there gives me an error, then when I tried to post it told me that my email keeps bouncing so I've given up on it. I'll just use this thread for what the yahoo groups thingy was supposed to be. Rob 86 SE V6 4 Speed

Hello?

People runnin' north thru Cincinnati??? Speak up!

Rob

quote Originally posted by CFOG-International: Race information and registration links are now on the first post of this thread, for Waterford track and Milan drags. The autocross is still under negotiation.

CFOG,
My car sounds like it would be in the Heavy Modified (Class P) since it is a 350 TPI-V8 (correct me if I'm wrong). Yet there is a listing in the Re-engineered (Class G) for V8's also. How do you distinguish between the two classes?

quote Originally posted by Bazooka: the Re-engineered (Class G)

Actually, Re-engineered is Class = Q (G is a stock 86 GT).

I expect Fred B. to answer your question, but it appears to me from reading the classes, that the difference is in cutting & fabrication of the frame or chassis. Typically, the SBC's require some cutting somewhere, which is why it's listed in G, and not in P.

quote Originally posted by Bazooka: CFOG, My car sounds like it would be in the Heavy Modified (Class P) since it is a 350 TPI-V8 (correct me if I'm wrong). Yet there is a listing in the Re-engineered (Class G) for V8's also. How do you distinguish between the two classes?

Hi Marty,
If you read the Class P closely, the 4.9 Cadillac V-8 is the only V-8 allowed in Heavy Mod. As far as I know, this engine conversion is bolt in.

Class Q Re-engineered is for the other V-8 Cars that require frame and/or cradle modifications.

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me.

------------------
Fred Bartemeyer
Chairman Heartland Fieros
http://www.heartlandfieros.com
86 GT 4spd 26k miles
87 GT 5spd. Blue 37k miles
88 Silver T-Top Formula 268,000 miles
87 GT 5 spd Annette's Sunshine Driver
88 GT 5 spd Annette's Daily Driver

Hello Fred,
Really wanted to see what degree of modification was needed for the engineered class. My V8 has a notch cut in the cradle that allows the A/C compressor to be mounted. Also the trans and motor mounts were redesigned. So those things would be considered cradle or frame mods?

Marty,
Yes, the notches in the cradle are cradle modifications. The purpose of Class Q Re-Engineered is to separate the engine conversions that bolt in from the coversions that require cutting and refabrication work. The intention is to keep the V-8 cars in the re-engineered group and the four and six cylinder cars in the modified classes.

I originally wanted to set up the classes with NO class names and just letter designations. My main goal while writing the classes was to keep like appearing cars together.

I hope your questions are covered.

See everyone at the 20th!

------------------
Fred Bartemeyer
Chairman Heartland Fieros
http://www.heartlandfieros.com
86 GT 4spd 26k miles
87 GT 5spd. Blue 37k miles
88 Silver T-Top Formula 268,000 miles
87 GT 5 spd Annette's Sunshine Driver
88 GT 5 spd Annette's Daily Driver

Fred,
Thanks, that was helpful.
Marty

I'll be at the event as long as there's a caravan of fiero's comming through AZ. Otherwise with my coordination i'll never see it. So if maybe some of the southern california boys can swing by i know you'll have at least two more fiero's for your caravan. Sadly i won't be able to race in any of the events... i'll not be staying in a room (my fiero is comfortable enough :zz all of this do to my future restoring of a rather gorgeous 87 GT. I need to find a stock tail for it some uncracked GT side panels and i am going to do a costum paintjob on it myself. Do i am a bit of an artist. I figure if I can do a job like i did on my lead guitarists axe i can do my car... and his car too as he is a proud fiero owner as well. So generally given that a caravan can make it's way through AZ you have got the better part of my band comming and maybe my girlfriend and bassist will wear a hooters shirt for old times sake. lol. nah i doubt it. but yes if anybody can get me some prices on the mentioned things i'll be very very joyous. thanks to the lot of you.
Raziel (FieroSkank)

Cheever or other 20th officials: I stumbled across this treasure trove of Fiero links:
http://www.automotive-links.com/mak/pon/fie.htm

There are dozens of Fiero clubs, Fiero-related vendors, Fiero enthusiast websites, etc.

In the interest of making the 20th the "Mother of all Fiero shows," I think it would be a good idea to send each of the links on that page an official e-mail from CFOGI alerting them about the 20th.

Not only should the e-mail serve to simply inform the recipients about the 20th, but it should also ask that they make a link on their websites back to the 20th's information page. You would also use it to recruit additional sponsors, vendors, etc.

I don't think we should assume that many Fiero people know about the event, and this would be a cost-effective way to get the word out!

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1986 Fiero 2M4
1994 Probe GT (winter beater)
2002 Trans Am WS6

Is it too late to register?

No, it's not too late to register, you have until May 15th. You can go to www.cfogi.com and follow the links to the 20th Anniversary registration page.

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quote Originally posted by IronDuke: http://www.automotive-links.com/mak/pon/fie.htm

That page doesn't come up for me.

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: That page doesn't come up for me.

It didn't come up for me yesterday either, but it's working now. Please try again.

[This message has been edited by IronDuke (edited 03-10-2003).]

Any one from New Hampshire going ? this may be somthing i want to use my vaction time for

is it possible to pay the street track/drag strip costs at the events? i don't know if my 3.4 TDC will be installed or not, if it isn't i won't even be driving my car up to michigan (i'll be going, just not driving my car), so basically i don't want to pay for everything incase my car isn't ready?

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Eric
'87 GT 5-speed Gold/Tan NOW with a 4.10 4-speed
3.1 TDC + other goodies coming summer of '03

-2.8 aluminum head crank, 6" SBC rods, N* pistons (11.5:1), 96+ heads, home built equal lenth headers, custom tunnel ram intake manifold, 24 #/hr injectors, and a 150 shot of N20 :)

Was there any mention of this ever being in september? Like maybe way way back in the planning stages or sumthing? I know its in July, but for some reason, before, I thought it was in Sept??? lol

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Was there any mention of this ever being in september?

Yes, it was a serious consideration, especially since the actual date of the Fiero's introduction is considered to be September 22 (and the announcement of CFOGi, btw). But a survey was taken, sent to several of the popular discussion groups, asking questions like would you come, where do you want it, and when. The overwhelming response was to have it before summer was over so that most people could attend and bring their family. Some agonizing was done before picking the date, but one factor in the decision was that MFC is doing this instead of their annual show - that alone helped to clinch Hulki's appearance and some other significant contributions to the 20th.

CARGO CAPACITY - I need to have at least double my trunk space since my daughter will coming also. We'll probably be on the road a week. I'm considering buying a trailer hitch and mounting a box on it. I figure 50 pounds hanging out the rear shouldn't affect handling too much. Any one done this and have any recommendations?

Thanks,
Robert

Cheever... Thanks ALOT!! Haha. I was soo confused for a little bit there. I appreciate you clearing things up. Geez, I was planning for sept, looks like I gotta start savin up some cash a lot faster...

------------------

19 Year Old Fierophile.
--1986 SE V6, Wild Custom Notchback
--1984 SE Modified Notchback

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I gotta start savin up some cash a lot faster...

You & me both. It's 18 weeks away - 126 days. I've been working overtime, and got a nice IRS return, but so far it all went to more important things. And the nickels & dimes I waste on just "stuff" would add up to a nice portion of the amount needed for the trip. That's why I'm not the club Treasurer I guess. My philosophy about money is "get rid of it".

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: [This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 02-07-2003).]

Ohh **** ! Think my 2.8 will throw a rod!
DAMMIT....oK WHEN IS IT, MAYBE i'LL HURRY UP AND DO A 3.8!

Updated map:

The California route is now I-80 from Hayward. If & when I get more info from Southern California people, then I'll add it.

Anyone else with another route they're traveling, let me know and I'll add it.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 03-14-2003).]

How many hours do you figure comming from Hayward..???