quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Anyway, if you use a dash with a blown passenger side airbag like mine, the dashes are cheap and the lid can be hinged and turned into a storage area or... something.

I'm liking this idea, I'm always looking for more room to put stuff in the Fiero (that whole "toss it behind the seats" meantality that I used in my extended cab s-10 doesn't work all that well in the Fiero )

Kudos to you guys on the dash conversions, they look sweet

------------------
Nick www.naskie18.com AIM: Naskie182010

[This message has been edited by naskie18 (edited 01-09-2003).]

A couple of days and you already have this thing mounteed?!?! I've had my new dash for a week and haven't even been able to get it *near* my car.. Of course my car is 50 something miles away, so that's kind of a slowdown.. I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll say NICE WORK!!!! and be on my way. I love the look of this conversion, and I'm jealous that you guys actually have the time to get some real progress going! I'm going to go start a new thread now, seems everyone wants an "interior" thread.. I'm doing a Mitsubishi 3000GT interior, and it's sloooow going. It's at https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025135.html Keep up the AWESOME work guys!!

------------------
Bob Williams
Multi-colored '87 GT, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation to start very soon!!!)

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Do you plan on installing the passenger air bag?

I don't see the need for installing/leaving in an air bag. The car doesn't have what it takes to run it nor are Pete and I GM engineers to work it legally or correctly. My dash came out of a car that had a front- end collision so the air bags were deployed anyways. I'm not sure what the law is in Canada about having an undetonated airbag in a car that doesn't have the ability to use it. Sounds scarry but I will look into it for those who think they might want to do it.

I'm not a GM engineer, but from what I know of the 1st generation airbags they are not that complicated and could be activated in the Fiero. Whether or not that would improve your chances in a front end collision I couldn't tell you.

The airbags are controlled from a single module that, (in the firebird) is mounted in the center console. It has an accelerometer that determines when a collision is taking place purely by measuring the g-forces.

Given the amount of g-forces necessary to trigger it, (namely a front end collision) I can't imagine that the rates would be that different between a Firebird and a Fiero.

If the rates are too low and the bag doesn't fire, (you are no worse off) Too early and that means that the bag will already be deflating by the time your forward momentum caries you into the bag, and you are no worse off.

The only concern I had is that the driver's airbag requires the slip ring in the column to work properly. Since I have no plans to install the slip ring it would have to be rigged up some other way. The reliability of that connection is what worried me.

On the passenger side, you don't have the slip ring concern, but as a two seater I was concerned that I would need an on/off switch. And I was worried that I might forget when my 4 year old son was sitting there.

And there is the liabiity issue. If the airbag fires and injures your passenger they could sue you, (even if the airbag saves their life.) That possibility always exists, but in this case you can't turn around and sue GM

- Jonathan

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-09-2003).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: And there is the liabiity issue. If the airbag fires and injures your passenger they could sue you, (even if the airbag saves their life.) That possibility always exists, but in this case you can't turn around and sue GM - Jonathan

My point exactly! I wouldn't want to be sued because I went and did something that I didn't design. To me, anything that it that big of a safety item, I would want to do a lot of homework before I went and installed it. Also by getting yourself a good lawyer justs-in-case We have an 8 year-old son and I will never put him infront of ANY air bag until he is at the legal age to do so. This could be an issue that many people disagree on so I'm leaving my point to that. I still will look into the legal aspects of the whole airbag issue because I wouldn't want to say that it's illegal to use in a dash mod when it's not and vice versa.

I was just curious. Not to turn this into a legal scandal I don't know anything about airbags design but if car weight/mass is an issue then you may use one from a car from the era of similar weight/mass. Again, this may not be technicaly feasible but I don't know. Also in my case I would feel better if I could have one in my car. I'm confident that anyone who rides with me is enough of a good friend to not sue me
But I also love the idea of making it a big glove compartment. Would be cool to put a nice video monitor in there...

I agree, I don't want this thread to turn into an airbag thread. But as was said by jscott1 its not a complicated circuit. I could put one on my sons bicycle. Again said by jscott1, there is a timing issue, you dont want the air bag going off as your chest is now sitting up agaist the steering wheel. The fiero seat belt lock work on a pendulum and the seat belt locks on a air bag car electrically and some have pretensionser to make sure that belt pulls you tight and your not close to the steering wheel when your wearing your belt in an accicent. Thats just one issue and there is more and more. What about the dash angles, if the bag is pointing too far up and the bag hits the roof, blasting the dash down into your legs bending your knees backwards or is the bag facing too low and pushes your legs back into the fire wall. What about the fiero seating is lower to the floor and you feet are tucked up the the seat bottem and the properly angled bag catches them instad of your chest, what then. and more and more. Sounds messy doesn't it. So.... Yes it is possible to do and I am sure you could.....

Pete

You convinced me Pete. Let's better put a DVD monitor or Playstation there

I've got a seatbelt, that's good enough for me. Gimme some extra storage space there What are the dimensions of the air bag compartment, do you guys know?

Nick

You guys are my heros. I want to follow in your footsteps. You make it easier by doing it first! I am putting in the 4.9 (if I ever get my mounts from bubbajoe, been over two months..) and want to start on a dash converstion. That dash is truly a work of art, especially in a Fiero. Great job. I'm still drooling.

What got done today:

quote Originally posted by naskie18: I've got a seatbelt, that's good enough for me. Gimme some extra storage space there What are the dimensions of the air bag compartment, do you guys know? Nick

True, we'll have to start an airbag thread when enough people get the Firebird dash.

As for dimensions of that compartment, it depends on how you did your airbox modification, how you placed your dash with respect to the windshield, and whether or not you integrate that area into the existing glove compartment. On my car that area is about the size of a breadbox, huge in other words.

ps, I better get my butt in gear, at the rate her86GT is going that car will be completed before mine. awesome

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-09-2003).]

anything that you can tell about it (bulk, dementions change, etc.) that might make it hard to get in a chop top fiero? any harder than getting the stock one in and out i mean.

A few more of tonight's progress:

It's hard to stop looking at it, isn't it? I'll be working on my door panels this weekend so I'll pull the steering column bracket off and take some pictures. I need a few shos for my web site documentation anyway.

Looks good,
Roy

quote Originally posted by Philphine: any harder than getting the stock one in and out i mean.

I wouldn't think so. It took the two of us to get mine out but it was really easy.

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: It's hard to stop looking at it, isn't it? I'll be working on my door panels this weekend so I'll pull the steering column bracket off and take some pictures. I need a few shos for my web site documentation anyway. Looks good, Roy

Roy, I'm starting to wonder why it took us months to get to the point this car got to in a few days This dash looks Awesome

I would be very interested to know if there is an easy way to raise the steering column higher than stock? Without removing my dash would it be possible to drop the column, notch out a spot for the ignition switch and then raise the column higher than stock somehow?

- Jonathan

For those of you who are doing/have done the conversion:
How does the stock center console look with the Firebird dash? Is it kinda ugly or does it look decent?

I drove mine that way for several weeks.
I would have left it that way except Mrfixit58's Firebird console looked so good that I wanted one too.

Is it feasable to use the firebird column? I think it would look better than the fieros.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Is it feasable to use the firebird column? I think it would look better than the fieros.

'

Well, believe it or not, there's not a lot of differences between the Fiero and the Firebird steering column. Both are round with two levers. The difference is the length (the Fiero column is shorter). The difference in looks mostly comes from the steering wheel. If you look at a stock Firebird or Camaro, you'll see what I mean. I will admit that it would clean up another detail if I were to shorten my steering column about 2".

Roy

That looks awesome! But how do you get rid of that gap between the dash and the column??

So where the others used a 'filler' piece, you just modified the factory peice to fill the gap???

Actually I have a firebird steering column on my dining room floor. It could be modified for the Fiero but the steering wheel would be in your chest is is so much longer.

It actually is also a little bigger in diameter, (mostly to accomodate the slip ring for the air bag and steering wheel controls) so it might fill the gap a little better, if you could overcome the length problem.

Raising the Fiero column also fills the gap pretty good. It you look at Roy's dash, the column is nicely centered withing the gauges and lower panel. I plan to raise mine some day, but I need to get some other things done first.

- Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: So where the others used a 'filler' piece, you just modified the factory peice to fill the gap???

Yes, that is true. I still have two small sections to fill on either end of the dash. I have a few ideas but nothing final yet.

As for the gap above the column, I think I will tackle this next.

Pete

quote Originally posted by PBJ: Yes, that is true. I still have two small sections to fill on either end of the dash. I have a few ideas but nothing final yet. As for the gap above the column, I think I will tackle this next. Pete

Pete - somehow you have leapfrogged me on some of the things I was planning to do. I have the factory piece to put between the glass and the dash but I was waiting until I had the dash bolted in it's final spot to trim it to size. What are you using to hold it down? I was designed for velcro, is that was you are using?

Also, I am very interested to see how you tackle the column. Please post lots of pics. This is quickly becoming my favorite thread!!

- Jonathan

Our filler pannel between dash and windshield is being held there right now by gravity. I plan on holding it down by appoxying an eyelit in several places and with the use of small elastic cords down to an accessable area under the dash to be able to remove easily.

The dash position is 4 inches from the end corners of dash to windshield and just over 7 inches from the direction change (corner)in middle of dash to windshield.

quote Originally posted by PBJ: Our filler pannel between dash and windshield is being held there right now by gravity. I plan on holding it down by appoxying an eyelit in several places and with the use of small elastic cords down to an accessable area under the dash to be able to remove easily. The dash position is 4 inches from the end corners of dash to windshield and just over 7 inches from the direction change (corner)in middle of dash to windshield.

THe factory filler was held in place by "D" lock from the factory. That's kinda like velcro but has a holding strength of 40 #/in^2. If you look at the two top center supports you should see the reminents. You could buy some more and mount it the same way. I think I've seen it at Home Depot. Anyway, that's what I used even on my home-made filler.

PJB -- I'm curious about the factory filler. Does the hump behind the cluster stick above the VIN plate?

Roy

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: the factory filler. Does the hump behind the cluster stick above the VIN plate? Roy

No the vin plate shows as factory, I had to do a bit of knotch, but you can not see that.

Pete

quote Well, believe it or not, there's not a lot of differences between the Fiero and the Firebird steering column. Both are round with two levers. The difference is the length (the Fiero column is shorter). The difference in looks mostly comes from the steering wheel. If you look at a stock Firebird or Camaro, you'll see what I mean. I will admit that it would clean up another detail if I were to shorten my steering column about 2". Roy

I guess the steering wheel just looks weird behind the tublar shaft. Maybe the firebirds sit further back in the dash or the thickness helps ease the transistion.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 01-11-2003).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This is quickly becoming my favorite thread!! - Jonathan

NOW you know how we all felt during the *the first F-bird thread*...LOL Kinda cool huh???

Great job Pete and Jenn...

------------------

SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
Have you RATED me today??
***3.4DOHC SWAP in Late Spring of 2003***

quote Originally posted by Smoooooth GT: NOW you know how we all felt during the *the first F-bird thread*...LOL Kinda cool huh??? Great job Pete and Jenn...

Exactly! Updates???

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Exactly! Updates???

Well Pete took a couple of days off of the project. He was getting kind of tired with finishing up the turbo and working on the dash and not to mention his regular job of working on cars. A couple of nights home did him some good so we should see some good progress come this week. If I was to show you a pic of the progress, it would just be a pic of Pete veggin' on the couch with the T.V. remote But he was kinda pouty because we didn't get down to the PA get together this past weekend. Next time

quote Originally posted by Her86GT: Well Pete took a couple of days off of the project. He was getting kind of tired with finishing up the turbo and working on the dash and not to mention his regular job of working on cars. A couple of nights home did him some good so we should see some good progress come this week. If I was to show you a pic of the progress, it would just be a pic of Pete veggin' on the couch with the T.V. remote But he was kinda pouty because we didn't get down to the PA get together this past weekend. Next time

Well, you've got something to do next weekend. I just sent the pictures of the steering column bracket I made for my conversion. It'll probably take a few minutes to receive them all so be patient.

Roy

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Well, you've got something to do next weekend. I just sent the pictures of the steering column bracket I made for my conversion. It'll probably take a few minutes to receive them all so be patient. Roy

Got 'em. Thanks alot eh!

Pete

The new steering column bracket.

Can you explain how that's installed?

quote Originally posted by Her86GT: A few more of tonight's progress:

the auto stick looks close to the center of the dash. you might want to go searching for a first gen cav shifter(it's bent back maybe 15 degrees)

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Can you explain how that's installed?

This is how I "plan" on installing this bracket, we shall see though

Yellow is steering column
blue is to be mig welded
red is further removed metal

Hope this is understandable, never was good with words.

Pete