Just got back from the Waterford Hills track. A great time was had by all and a fantastic turn out!
There was plenty of excitement as our favorite little cars hit the track. The first and most exciting "crash" was when California kid spun out on corner #1 and shot off the track. A huge cloud of dust and grass spewed into the air as his car disapeared over the crest of the hill. Thankfully he was not hurt and the car only suffered some wheel/tire damage from the gravel pit that stops you from going into the gaurd-rail.
Another tense moment came when a med-red fastback also went into turn #1 a little too hot and also ended up in the gravel pit.
What an exciting day! And it's not over yet! It's now onto Big Bucks Brewery for some dinner and a cruise down Woodward Ave.
A red Fiero on the track
California kid down the front straight
Some cars going around turn #1 (notice California kid's skid marks going off to the left side of the corner)
A pack of Fiero's following the pace car around the track
View of the pits to the East
View of the pits to the West
[This message has been edited by turbotoad (edited 07-17-2003).]
hmmmmm in all those pics I dont' see CrazyD's car. He said he was going to be running his car there.
I wonder just how his car did out there(if in fact he showed up at all) considering his car is "not setup for drag racing" which I can assume is more setup for a road race car. Since he himself said he built it more for a autocross car I am guessing he cleaned up?
What were some of the times around the track?
------------------ Mike LeCompte 86 Fiero GT 3.2L w/ Nitrous
Guess Cali kids car finally gets tested. This settles the debate of Konis and cut springs. Maybe it isn't the greatest handling fiero of all time like people belive.
The again, the car could be set up really great and it was driver error. Or maybe just cheap tires?? Not too sure.
Sorry to hear about the accident, I hope you find replacement wheels, the ones you have now are killer!!
Sounds like a really great day, wish I could have been there!
------------------ --1986 SE V6, Wild Custom Notchback --1984 SE Modified Notchback
IP: Logged
07:05 PM
AkursedX Member
Posts: 2890 From: Lackawanna NY Registered: Aug 2000
The only debate this settles is that you don't get greedy trying to past two car on a very short straightaway. This was driver error all the way, I'll be the first to admit I was focused too much on the two slower cars, passing within the passing cones, and most importantly the little dip in the pavement as you enter turn one (which upsets the balance on the car so much that if you're on the brakes, bye bye you're on an uncontrolled ride. It didn't help matters that I was entering the turn at close to 100mph (which was needed to get past the second car, I should have braked and pulled in behind him).
The car performed to my expectations and felt very well on the track. It was predictable and I learned more about controlling the car with every lap. The only damage to the car is some very slight abrasions from gravel on the rocker panel that you can hardly see, and some paint abrasions (slight scratches in the clear coat). Not bad considering I was buried up to the top of the lower door molding in pea gravel, had to be towed out of the pit by a wrecker.
I drove the car into Clarkston and had both right side tires dis-mounted due to many small stones in between the tire bead and the rim. Pea gravel removed, tires remounted, balanced, and back to Waterford where I put in some more laps. Surprisingly Belle Tire did all my tire work at no charge, because I bought my wheels/tires from one of their stores 40 miles away 4 years ago.
Hey...bottom line is that I messed up big time, my first time on a road course, and a very tight course at that. The Corvette boys warned me about how tricky this course is to run a powerfull car, but sometimes you just have to learn first hand! I had a lot of fun as well as the others who participated, it certainly was worth the expense, and I learned what my car likes in tight situations, which again reinforced my confidence in the handling abilities of my car. Cars don't drive themselves, it takes a talented person behind the wheel of it who has made mistakes, and has learned from them to pull the best out of it.
The Rookie!
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-17-2003).]
IP: Logged
08:00 PM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6232 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
Hey Tom, great to see you've still got your cool after what has been said, I knew some people would doubt your car.
When I first read this tread, I figured you were probably pushing a little harder than the rest. I'm sure your mistake is something any one of us could easily make, sometimes you get caught up in the moment.
Glad to hear your car is fine, and that your pride is still there.
Have fun at the show!
------------------ 1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, Loaded
IP: Logged
08:45 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
Remount/balance tires, little paint, put a little ice pack where it hurts most and do it again in 5 years. Glad to know no one was hurt and the damage was minimal. Pics will be up later...
IP: Logged
08:51 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
Hey Tom, great to see you've still got your cool after what has been said, I knew some people would doubt your car.
When I first read this tread, I figured you were probably pushing a little harder than the rest. I'm sure your mistake is something any one of us could easily make, sometimes you get caught up in the moment.
Glad to hear your car is fine, and that your pride is still there.
Have fun at the show!
Well Jelly, you hit the nail on the head about getting caught up in the moment, too many thought processes were running through the head at the time in a very short distance. Setup to safely past first car, keep him in sight so you don't cut him off, quickly make decision on second car, setup to complete pass within the two passing cones on the straight, don't pinch the second car into the turn, damn I'm going too fast!!! That corner came up on me like 'Warp Speed'. I keep my car on the extreme outer edge going into the turn to leave room on the inside for the other car as I tried to break it down. The little dip in the pavement lightened my a$$ end as I exited the dip causing the rear tires to break loose, and left rear tire was in the marbles instantly. While playing it safe for the other driver/s, I had left no room to drift the car into the turn, even if I had cut in a little (without much brake), it would have been borderline due to the speed. The car was handling excellent in the corners and I just wanted to get past these two cars to stretch the legs out on my car a little more. It wasn't a race, but you forget that when you're out there.
Funny thing when you flying through the grass sideways, everything goes into slow motion, you see every blade of grass/dust particle entering your car before your eyes, as the sky slowly rotates across your windshield. The gravel bed felt like slowly falling into a big feather bed!!!
I am very grateful that neither of the drivers I passed were distracted enough that it would have put them into trouble as well. One of the drivers apologized to me a couple times for holding me up, he shouldn't have, it wasn't his fault, it was my error in judgement.
Man, this car does run and I quickly found out that your mind has to be way out in front of you on a course like Waterford. They also banned passing on the short straight where this happened, because at least 3 more cars found the same pea gravel pit after me!
The only debate this settles is that you don't get greedy trying to past two car on a very short straightaway. This was driver error all the way, I'll be the first to admit I was focused too much on the two slower cars, passing within the passing cones, and most importantly the little dip in the pavement as you enter turn one (which upsets the balance on the car so much that if you're on the brakes, bye bye you're on an uncontrolled ride. It didn't help matters that I was entering the turn at close to 100mph (which was needed to get past the second car, I should have braked and pulled in behind him).
I saw the entire crash, from the time you romped it until you ended up in the dirt and I have to verify his entire story. 'Course, when you DID get on it it sounded VERY sweet, albeit if only for few a split seconds. lol
Turn 1 ate the most cars today, btw - enough so that the track officials pulled an emergency drivers meeting and that was discussed (amongst other things). Anyone that ran the track will verify the first turn ..
------------------ Boomtastic
IP: Logged
10:26 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Good job, Tom. It takes a big man to keep his calm and admit he screwed up when people are trolling for a fight. It's easy to blame the car or another driver (just listen to any post-wreck NASCAR interview )
I've learned a lot about driving in high performance situations by pushing it just a bit too far and screwing up. I've been lucky in that I've not had any major accidents. I'm glad your experience was similar. Knowing how your car reacts at and beyond the limits will definitely help you in the future.
Wish I could have seen that pass, though! Anybody get it on video?
IP: Logged
10:43 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
Thank You Formula88, Helps the bruised ego out tremendously. I was very happy to get the tires broke down to get the wedged pea gravel out, and make it back to run the last sesson on the track. While it didn't erase the mistake (which I'll never forget) it did smooth the day over a bit for me.
IP: Logged
11:15 PM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
There was no 'official' times scored, nor were you really able to compare your speed on one lap to a previous lap. There was usually a car in front of you, and you simply tried to respect their space and ability while keeping your own car in control. Competitive? Maybe a little, that is just human nature, but fun.... Oh Yes!
Cal Kid is a distinctive person, in a distinctive car, and took the distinctive first spin. I later caught up to Shawn (Purple Reign), who also dumped in the same spot, and let him know how much I appreciated them putting at risk something they put so much time and moeny into. Tom and Shawn pushed themselves to the limit of their skill at that track and I think they learned from the expreience. I spent most of my time running within a wheel twitch or a throttle blip of loosing it (for my skill) and let me tell you, at speed... if you messed up... in some places those tire walls and concrete barriers would be all too welcome to greet you before you could correct it.
Track day was a great success. The crowd support covered every driver on track, and a lot of comraderie was shared. It's a little backwards, but whenever someone would lose it, the question was always " Is the car okay?"... then followed by the driver. I am SO glad none of Tom's or Shawns customizations ended in a crash, trying to show everyone what our little cars are capable of. And no injuries were reported.
WOW Cali ! Sounds like you had a near miss! hummm too much power?j/k
**WORD OF CAUTION** DON'T let Blake ride with ya!! you WILL hit a cone or even a wall!!!! Blake how did the mods work for ya? Who in the TX crowd came?
IP: Logged
12:52 AM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Here's a couple shots for those concerned about the 'Kid', I'm very glad that the pea gravel trap was there, or pictures would have been a lot worse. I'll have to thank my painter as the body has very few scratches, he must have used a lot of flex agent.
IP: Logged
11:33 AM
turbotoad Member
Posts: 1392 From: Clarkston, MI Registered: Jul 2002
any more info on that orange car in the last pic? dayum
Not much more info than that it looked to be one of the faster cars out there. The suspension looked like it was dialed in just right as the car never looked twitchy or nervous like others did. Also, it had Beretta GTU wheels and the back wheels had been cut & welded to either widen them, change the offset, or both.
I also want to confirm Tom's (California Kid) version of the incident. I've watched many races a Waterford Hills (Grew up in the area) and can tell you that turn one claims many, many cars. I've seen a c-4 vette roll up on it's side after going off that turn! As soon as I saw Tom blasting past the grandstands along the front straight I knew he was going to be in trouble. He simply went into the turn WAY too hot!
IP: Logged
11:33 AM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
One of the things I discovered at Waterford is that it takes an incredible amount of physical strenght, skill, and practice to drive a manual transmission car on that course. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not in the greatest physical shape, spent last night with repeated severe cramps in both hands, arms, and legs. That course really worked my butt off, what a workout!!!
I think one of the contributers (of many) that got me into trouble on turn one is that it it 'blind' so to speak (because the track slopes down there), you don't see the entrance until you're right on top of it. If you're busy watching other cars, you have no visual to remind you it's coming up. The only way one can master that turn is to spend a lot of time driving there.
I know a lot of people on this Forum are Quarter Mile minded type people, but you've got to get out and try a Road Course, it will humble you. It is an incredible amount of fun that doesn't last just a few seconds.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-18-2003).]
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not in the greatest physical shape, spent last night with repeated severe craps in both hands, arms, and legs. That course really worked my butt off, what a workout!!!
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-18-2003).]
Huh just a guess here ....that would be CRAMPS ...right! Although BOTH would fit that sentance!! haha Again...lucky YOU and car!!
IP: Logged
02:14 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
LOL...ya that would be 'cramps' (corrected it), however the accident made me feel like crap, seeing my car buried in pea gravel made me want to crap, so I guess my fingers were talking from another sector of my brain.
Yes I was very lucky, If I had entered the gravel trap nose first, I think I'd be shopping for a new front fascia, and possibly a radiator.
IP: Logged
04:06 PM
jlhuber Member
Posts: 881 From: Hope, MI, USA Registered: Oct 1999
any more info on that orange car in the last pic? dayum
From the blurry/distant pics, it resembles the Great Pumpkin owned by a guy by the name of Keith. If it is the same car, I met the guy while I was stationed at McGuire AFB in New Jeresy and had my '86GT T-top. Can't tell you much more then that because it is going on 4 years now.
IP: Logged
06:33 PM
blakeinspace Member
Posts: 5923 From: Fort Worth, Texas Registered: Dec 2001
yeah, that's him. He ran A LOT today at Milan. Usually in the 17's. He has an awesome exhaust... hi-flow cat into a Y-pipe and then on out. Sounds wicked...
IP: Logged
06:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 20th, 2003
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Dave & I actually didn't travel up to the 20th together, we just arrived together.
Dave, who was pulling his camper trailer, had a left tire blow-out about 25 miles from the hotel (he also lost a throttle cable) he was coming in from the South. He called me on the cell phone as I was coming in from the West. I was maybe 2 hours away at that time. I detoured to the South and picked him and his car up. Without the blow-out Dave would have been able to arrive at Waterford on time and without the delay I Should have made it too. After I picked him up, we wandered around about 2 hours looking for the Hotel.
So, don't read anything more into his absence than that.
Archie
IP: Logged
04:05 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Have been getting quite a few questions on the condition of the car after the crash, so here's a couple shots taken at the show on Saturday. I just washed it up a little, to remove all the gravel and dirt. Didn't have the car judged because I was just too darn tired to detail it out (and it was loaded with dirt after my off-roading experience).
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-20-2003).]
IP: Logged
04:42 PM
D-Ri2k4 Member
Posts: 282 From: Florence (Hicksville), Texas Registered: Feb 2003
Originally posted by blakeinspace: There was no 'official' times scored, nor were you really able to compare your speed on one lap to a previous lap.
True, but as you know, many people were videoing the event. Alan Hamiliton and Steven Perkins(I think that was the last name) were the two yellow cars that were devoted to track racing and both had cameras mounted inside the car. Some of that video will end up on the DVD. Watching Alan Hamiltons's video was a real insight into how important "driving the line" can be. This was Alan's first time at this track and his lap times (pulled from the videos) were only 7 seconds off of the track record. And that's not just fiero's that's compared to ALL cars that have ever raced there. That is one hell of a testament for both car and driver!
Not much more info than that it looked to be one of the faster cars out there. The suspension looked like it was dialed in just right as the car never looked twitchy or nervous like others did. Also, it had Beretta GTU wheels and the back wheels had been cut & welded to either widen them, change the offset, or both.
That would be the Great Pumpkin, owner is Keith Gerhard. He mainly runs hill climbs in PA and NJ. He does some SCCA Solo II, but the hill climbs is what he does most. Yes, he does have the suspension dialed in and running G-Force (BFG?) tires. It is a 2.8 auto and only runs 16.5 (best) in the 1/4.
------------------ 85 SE 2M6 "Fiero Addiction" 85 SE SC3800 Series II 5-Speed
For those that went to waterford Im sure most of you remember the red 86 GT that spun on the front straight, and Im looking for anyone that may have a video or pics of it. I also spun in the first turn on the first lap, I have never experienced anything like that first turn ever that thing is wicked. For those that that were not there and want to criticize other peoples cars and driving ability just go to Waterford any drive it into that first turn hard and I gaurantee that you will have nothing to say then.
------------------ Scott 86GT 3.4 turbo
IP: Logged
11:10 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Waterford had to be the most fun I have had in a long time! My 1st session (group 2 - session 3) was kind of frustrating, we got bottled up behind someone, making for a 5 car Fiero train. The second session was much better. Followed the orange instructor car for 2 laps, he showed me the line, let me pass - and away I went. Had my 3spd auto in 2nd the whole time, except the back straigt, where I pushed it into 3rd for a bit, then pulled it back into 2nd during braking. really beat that motor (see low oil pressure in tech secion....). I really wish there was some kind of lap timers. I turned in some what I think were really good laps. never got passed, never held anyone up, passed 3 cars, lapped 1. Turn 1 is scary. You cant see it untill your in it. My favorite parts of the track was #1 - coming down the hill. wow that is cool. you are so light. #2 the wind up turn into the back straight. plain 'ol yeeehaa! #3 the large double apex turn into the front straight. last curve. the better you make this turn, the scarier the blind turn 1 is.
------------------ 1985 Fiero SE Plain Red V6 Coupe
IP: Logged
11:12 AM
Fierochic88 Member
Posts: 4980 From: Staunton, VA Registered: May 2001
The orange car also does an awesome hill climb up Route 144 :-)
Anyways, I had a blast at Waterford Hills and so did my dad despite blowing the engine in his car.
I think my driving improved 300% the second time around. The first time I was too worried about hurting my paint job but obviously anyone who was there realized that thought changed once Steve Perkins got in the car with me! I found my line and had fun doing it! Donut after the straight stretch and all! Thanks to MinnGreen for not hitting my car as well as the rest of the pack who was right on my heels!
Jen
------------------
IM Username: FieroChic88 Silver 1988 GT Silver 1986 2m4 Cobalt Blue 85 GT 3.4
IP: Logged
02:03 PM
88GTURBO Member
Posts: 114 From: Columbia Tn USA Registered: Nov 2001
I had a great time too. Had an instructor with me, I think his name was Wheeler, anyway I spun after the straight too was much fun. I learned alot and had a great time. I think my spin will be on the DVD.
lol
....that would be CRAMPS ...right! 
