Well I'm still interested Rice =). Just keep be sure to keep us updated (as you are ) and let us know when you want the money. You still shipping to only the first few people who said they were interested in the thread, or you sending them out to everyone who wants them right away? Sorry hope none of us are rushing you. Matt
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01:19 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'll probably just start shipping them out as fast as I can make them... I want to have a bunch to bring to the 20th show too. Don't worry about "rushing" me, I need the motivation!! I actually cleaned up 90% of my room now so I could get to the HUD project and have the space to work on it. I even mounted my ocilloscope to my workbench on sliders, so it hides like a drawer. It'll be nice to have that on hand for testing! I still can't find my solder though.... Might have to go buy some in the morning... That was the good stuff too.
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress!!!)
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01:30 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Update, sort of.. Well, I fixed the last "prototype" that I built, and ended up building another. Turns out the buffers I'm using to light the LED's are puking. You look at one funny and it blows, leaving random segments of the numbers on. I've replaced 5 today on the 2 boards. It's fine just sitting there, but when I go to test something, POOF, it blows. Could be static that's killing them. Either way I'm changing to a different chip, which means I have to order them, and hook up and test them when they arrive. They're also 2x as much $... I've got to sell a few of these to break even, but it's worth it!! The good thing is the parts usually only take 2 days to get here. Updates to come.....
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress!!!)
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05:44 PM
Apr 9th, 2003
Kris Duck Member
Posts: 193 From: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Registered: Dec 2002
Well, good news is the parts came in. Got the jumpers for the KPH/MPH setting... Bad news is, so did the new buffer chips. Bad because they seem to be even *worse* than the original ones, if that's possible. They're rated for 64mA on each output, I'm using about 30mA *max*, and the thing is getting really hot, then segments start sticking.. I just don't get it! The original circuit used lower-power red LED's, the ones I'm using now are brighter, and the green, yellow, and blue ones are too much for the processor chip alone anyway. I'm starting to think I'll have to use 7 transistors instead of 1 buffer chip to light the segments. The transistors are actually easier to solder, which is a good thing, just that they take up a lot more space than one tiny buffer chip. But that chip is pointless if it's going to burn up all the time. Of course I have a few dozen of them now.. Maybe they're good for another project. I think I'll try to wire up the tiny transistors with some tiny wire, and see if that works. If I order enough, they may be near in price to the 1 chip.... I hope.... Thanks for the bump guys!!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress!!!)
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05:04 PM
Apr 14th, 2003
Unsafe At Any Speed Member
Posts: 2299 From: Cheyenne, WY Registered: Feb 2003
Outer dimensions of the enclosure are: at the bottom - 2.010"x1.510", at the top - 2.050"x1.550", and 1.040" tall. (the enclosure tapers a bit towards the bottom) For exact info, it's Digikey part number 377-1173-ND. It can also be made with the display on a seperate cable, for remote mounting. That display would be 1.480"x.950"x.420". Hope that helps!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress!!!)
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06:04 AM
Seanpaul Member
Posts: 1320 From: Santa Rosa, North CA. Registered: Mar 2003
This is interesting, let me know the final price and what you can get, I'd like a full pack if thats possible (speedo, tach, feul guage/warning, directional signals) if thats possible it'd be pretty cool, so long as it's in a decent price range.
Keep it up!
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Proud owner of a Black and Purple 1985 Fiero GT All Stock Baby!
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08:15 PM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I don't have to go to work tomorrow, so I can work on the HUD tonight, (and work on my ENGINE finally tomorrow) seeing if the transistors will work. If so I'll change the design and order them up! As for options, right now it's just Speedo; tach is a planned upgrade later, (either 2 digits x 100, or 3 digits x 10..) as for other things we think it would be a little too distracting for normal driving.. You'd have lights flashing and numbers changing all over the place. Would probably be more dangerous than looking down for a sec at the instruments. I wonder how that Cadillac night-vision-projection thing went... I would think that would drive some people batty and run them off the road.. Haven't heard much about it lately....
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress!!!)
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09:17 PM
FieroRaines Member
Posts: 248 From: Hohenfels, Germany Registered: Mar 2003
you mention the 64mA current drive capability of the drivers you're using. You're probably over the total power dissipation of the device. If you sink 7x64mA (with all segments on), that's almost half an amp that has to go through the silicon die, and through the tiny wire and leg (assuming a SMT part).
So I would suggest switching to discrete transistors, or transistor arrays with separate pins, no common emitters.
Oh, right: *bump* ;-)
Best regards,
-Oliver
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
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09:00 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
LOL... You're probably right. In fact I'm sure you are... The little chip is just getting way too hot. It's only a max of 30mA per pin with these LED's, but still. I think they were designed more as data buffers than LED drivers. I looked at the transistor arrays, but I think the easiest solution will be to use 7 transistors. I got some more time off of work, so now I have a little time to play with them, between working on the car, the house, and some other electronics stuff that someone is after me for.. (paying job.. I guess he has a right.. ) I'll try to stay away from the Fiero for a week, but it will be hard now that the engine runs, and I've got some of the inside-car wiring done. (The Buick BCM now runs the locks, lights, and dingy thingy!!!) I've been sooooo busy lately. If you're daily routine is anything like mine, I don't know how you found the time to design this in the first place! Crazy.. Hope to have an update soon! (as long as my computer doesn't crash and eat the board files.. It's been crashing WinXP lately.. Not good. I'm backing up to CD in a few minutes...)
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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10:16 AM
Apr 24th, 2003
fieroluke Member
Posts: 357 From: Erlangen, Germany Registered: Mar 2001
One of my pet projects (0.00001% completed) is to create a complete new electrical harness for the Fiero. This includes Door control modules, body control modules, instrument cluster module, etc. all wired with the OBDII (aka J1850) bus.
The first two modules will be the door modules, based on my original design with the adjustable threshold that I published. The new design will also control the door lock, power mirror, mirror heater, puddle light, ajar switch, etc. Basically, you will only need to run power and data to the module.
The fun will begin with the BCM, because that's when integration starts to get fun. Doors automatically unlocking when you turn off the ignition, interior light delays, etc will be possible with no additional wiring. On the contrary, the wiring will be less.
Anyway, I have started by building the J1850 scantool (also on my website), and I am now building a J1850 to ethernet bridge (because RS232 ports are always used for something else somehow). That'll allow me to monitor and control the J1850 bus from my PC with a standard Ethernet cable (I can't wait to see the look on people's faces when I plug the ethernet cable into a jack on the Fiero and push a key on the PC to roll down the window ;-)
Now you see why the Buick BCM interests me. Might spare me the work to design my own. But then, I can really tailor something to the Fiero the way *I* like...
Enough rambling...
TTYL,
-Oliver
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
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11:07 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'm pretty sure the Buick BCM is "dumb" so to speak.. Just uses different switched inputs to cause things to happen, no real communication going on with it. I'm pretty sure there's not even a data line going to it. Not sure of a car that has one like that currently - my Neon uses some communications between modules - most of the gauges run on an odd 1-wire bus, but a lot is still hard-wired. Sounds like a cool project, hope you have the time to get that going!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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04:30 PM
Apr 25th, 2003
fieroluke Member
Posts: 357 From: Erlangen, Germany Registered: Mar 2001
yes, your Neon is a Chrysler, so it uses the same one-wire J1850 bus GM uses, but the protocol is slightly different.
Anyway, like I said, I want it custom tailored to the Fiero. But you're right, if only I had more time.
Maybe I should have gotten into DeLoreans instead of Fieros, then I would have ALL THE TIME I NEED! ;-) Or did anyone get the flux capacitor installed on their Fiero? ;-) ;-)
TTYL,
-Oliver
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
I was just wondering if you had finished moving and started making the HUD's yet rice??? just keep me posted please. I need one of these pretty soon. Thanx
------------------ Avid Fiero Enthusiast Daniel Caddell
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08:09 PM
Apr 27th, 2003
MOBILE Member
Posts: 768 From: Linwood, MN, USA Registered: May 2002
LOL, I don't think I want to hit 160mph in a Fiero.. Been busy again with a job I'm supposed to have done like *yesterday*, so I haven't finished the "transistor-prototype" yet. I may just eat another $60 and order one instead of wiring one myself. Just sucks to spend $60 on 9 circuit boards, build one, and find out that all 9 aren't going to work. As for the 3800 question.. I haven't looked into it yet unfortunately. At least I have the 3800 VSS to work with, and the factory manuals.. Which converters are people having problems with?? The one on Rockcrawl's site, or does someone build them? I may have to look into that, maybe make a better converter at some point. Assuming I ever get the engine in the car....
LOL, I had a feeling this was going to come to the top today.. I was thinking about it on the way home, and yep, here it is.. Last night, (well, this morning at 2am) I finished up the new (and hopefully last!!) board design, which should work. I prototyped the new driver circuit, and it ran all night with no problems. (cept the power supply is still getting too hot for my liking...) So I changed the board in the "board program", and I'm going to double-check it in a few minutes, then order it. Usually takes 3-4 days to get the boards in, and hopefully they will work 100% this time!! I have to see if Oliver can change the program a bit, as adding transistors inverts the signals, so they need to be changed in the program... But other than that... The blue ones are really really bright, I *can't wait* to get one of those in my car! And everyone else that wants one of course! I think the blue LED's are what started the whole mess.. Well all the colors anyway. The original red LED's that Oliver used were OK with no buffering, the ones I decided to use (brighter red, and colors) use too much current for just the CPU chip, which is where the buffers come in. Each one needs to handle 30mA max, the new one with transistors can handle 500mA each! (per segment) Woohoo! I could use 3" LED displays with this board... I'll update this the second they're working, or sooner if anyone has questions.. Hope everyone isn't going to whack me at the 20th for taking so long on these!! Almost ready guys!!!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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05:19 PM
May 23rd, 2003
fieroluke Member
Posts: 357 From: Erlangen, Germany Registered: Mar 2001
changing the output polarity is no problem. Email me at home to remind me.
And regarding the 3800 owners: folks, if you give me some information on your speedo signal, it should be a matter of changing a few lines of code (unless your setup is somewhat exotic, like a mechanical speedo for example ;-)
Can't wait to see your new layout...
Take care,
-Oliver
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
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08:36 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Good to see ya Oliver! I sent an email a few days ago, but not sure if it went through, or was the wrong address... Anyway, the good news is I built one of the new ones, and with the exception of segments A and B refusing to light (probably a short when soldering... argh) it seems to be working, woohoo! Just have to figure out that last problem, and the heat from the power supply. Drawing 200mA or so.. Problem is time - I haven't been home since Tuesday night when I quickly built the last one. I need a job so I'll have more free time! LOL Havent' even been able to work on the 3800 lately.
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
LOL.. The circuit is working great now, with a test chip... Just need to get the HUD program changed, and we'll be good to go! (Oliver, is your email addy in Pennock's the correct one? Sent a couple emails but haven't heard from ya..) With the power available on this board, I could use 3" LED displays no problem, woohoo!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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08:06 AM
Jun 19th, 2003
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Update, bringing this one back from the "dead"... Don't even know what page it was on! The new programs from Oliver work great, there's now a 2,000 pulse per mile one for stock Fiero installs, and a 4,000 pulse per mile version which should work with a LOT of other cars. I just ordered some boards this morning at 3am, should be here Tuesday 6/24. The new power supply barely gets above room temperature after running for hours! Switching power supplies are great... More $, but worth it. (I still have the list of everyone that wants or wanted one) Price is still going to be the same, for all the Pennock's guys anyway, say the first 50 or 60 units sold, and will probably go up after that, and on Ebay. This stuff takes an unbelievable amount of money to get going! Anyway, here are the current boards, if anyone cares! Processor board: and the power supply board: The thing is going to look like a block of solder with some etches carved into it. Should work great! I'll update on Tuesday if all goes well. I ordered 6 for the prototype batch, and will order 200 if those work as they should. Finally!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
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09:49 AM
PFF
System Bot
Hank is Here Member
Posts: 4451 From: Hershey, Pa Registered: Sep 2000
Glad to hear progress is comming along. I think I'm on your list but if I'm not put me on it. Heck I think I may even want two. If you need any idiot testers for these I'll offer, you can get much more idiot than me
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10:11 AM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Wow where did this topic come from, this sounds awesome. Now I'll feel like im driving in a Corvette ---not. But anyways put me on the list. Great stuff, keep it coming.
Once you get those 200 units in make sure u PM me or make a big announcement bc I'm pretty pumped about getting one of these in my car.
[This message has been edited by fierogt3 (edited 06-20-2003).]
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01:30 PM
Jun 20th, 2003
Fire451 Member
Posts: 314 From: British columbia, Canada Registered: Sep 2002
Whoops!! Well, the power supply seems to be working 100% - I actually got the boards in Monday, but wasn't home 'till night time. So I built one at 2am, and ran it all night, it wasn't even warm in the morning. I'd say that's a success! I changed a few things on the HUD board for this last prototype run, so I want to build one of those too, just to be sure. I've been busy most of the day today building circuits for a guy I work for, those are finally done, no more of them! Yay! (I don't get paid nearly enough to build them, so today was my last day doing them) Now I can work on my car and finish up the HUD project. Anyway.. Assuming the new prototype HUD board works like it should (I know it will) I'm going to order the 200 boards tonight. It takes 10 days to have them made, so that brings it to Tuesday, July 8 not counting weekends. So I've got to order parts to make 100 of them tonight also, and I'll start making them as soon as everythign arrives. God my credit card bill is going to be HUUGE! LOL For those going to the F.I.N.E. show in Ma. this saturday, I'm going to be giving away the first HUD unit there. I want to see what it's going to look like in a Fiero, and mine has no interior! And from WAAAAAY back, if Pyrthian reads this, the first one built with the production boards is yours!! Maybe 2, it's been so loong.. lol And TK, you'll get the next 2! (Sent me $ a long time ago, and doesn't have them yet!!) Then everyone else gets them. Thanks for sticking around this long and not flaming me guys!! Oh- I'm going to order 100 sets of Red LED's, 10 sets of Green, 10 sets of Amber / Yellow, and 10 sets of Blue to start. That's over $400 in LED's alone! Woohoo! That should give me a good start - I know most people want red, but that should cover the other colors too. Wish the blue ones were cheaper.. Ok, time to get back to work!!
------------------ Bob Williams Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (Got my 3800SC, installation in progress. It now starts and runs!!!)
I hope so! I've played with the idea of ordering 400 boards while I'm at it - I would save $1 or so per board, lol.. But for 200 more boards, that's $200 saved in the future. Not sure if I'll sell all 200 though, nevermind 400! Would be nice though. The good news is it should work with any car with 2000ppm (Fiero) or 4000 pulses per mile (lots of other cars), so Ebay may get a few sales. And to think I just wanted to make one for my own car...
) and let us know when you want the money. You still shipping to only the first few people who said they were interested in the thread, or you sending them out to everyone who wants them right away? Sorry hope none of us are rushing you. 
I've got to sell a few of these to break even, but it's worth it!! The good thing is the parts usually only take 2 days to get here. Updates to come.....
I'll update this the second they're working, or sooner if anyone has questions.. Hope everyone isn't going to whack me at the 20th for taking so long on these!! Almost ready guys!!!
and the power supply board: 
The thing is going to look like a block of solder with some etches carved into it. Should work great! I'll update on Tuesday if all goes well. I ordered 6 for the prototype batch, and will order 200 if those work as they should. Finally!
