It seems that there have been a LOT of flaming Fiero threads lately, so why not a thread to list the known and theoretical causes; and discuss some preventative measures we can take in the future. The last thing we need to to begin refueling the "Fieros are fire traps" notion.

I am not really worried about the Lab Rat going up in flames, because there is gonna be very little original Fiero left, but I am going to drive my dad's 86 auto/duke notchy a bit to refresh my memory on the Fiero driving experience, while I have mine ripped apart. Before I do though I would like to make sure I don't bring him back a toasted marshmellow!

perk

Most fires seem to occur when something flammable comes into contact with something hot.

best recomendations I can think of are to
1) check the engine bay for an loose wires, make certain they are in good condiion. repair or replace any wires you see that are freyed, missing insulation, or not hooked up.
2)Make certain that you dont have any fluid leaks, get fluid on that hot exhaust and youve probly got a fire hazard.
3)make certain there is nothing touching the exhaust manifold. Wires are one thinkg you definitely want to look at on the manifold, not only is there potention for the wires to catch fire from the heat of the ehaust but if they are already damage they can ground out causing sparks as well as more heat, this can also damage your ECU.
4)Check for any loose wire loom (the platic stuff you put the wires in) as it can catch fire if it touches something extremely hot. If you have added loom make certain it can handle the high temps of the engine bay, if it cant get it out or replace it with some high temp loom.
5)Make certain that the engine is in good mechanical condition, if something is loose or rubbing somewhere it can cause problem too. Check the battery, I had a problem where the battery would slide into the pully of my Duke and get a hole chewed in it, never caused a fire but the potential is there.

Im certain there is more but those are all I can think of right now

[This message has been edited by yashmack (edited 08-18-2003).]

I think the biggest culprit is definitely the overall age of the cars. These things aren't new, and for the most part "normal" maintence is not likely to be enough.

Things to look for/replace:
1. Deteriorating brakelines - cause the caliper to lock & drag, increase temps, sometime lines burst and flames ensue.

2. Hot exhaust vs. Dry materials (this is how GT Dude lost one of his cars). When you park your car, be aware of flammable materials like dry leaves that may be under your hot exhaust (ie: the cat coverter).

3. Dry leaves in blower motor housing: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20020511-1-013739.html

4. Faulty wiring and/or electrical system (like my Alt Fire awhile back). Not much you can do to prevent some of this... just keep your eye on things!

5. Decorative wire loom - much of this is not rated for Fiero-engine-compartment temps. Be aware of what you're putting in that engine compartment (I believe GT Dude lost another car to this). https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/028806.html

6. Probably the most common fault that occurs... not having an extinguisher in your car at all times! They're relatively cheap, and you'll thank yourself many times over if you ever have to use it (I know this first hand).

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Looking for Fiero posters?

quote Originally posted by yashmack:...I had a problem where the battery would slide into the pully of my Duke and get a hole chewed in it, never caused a fire but the potential is there...

Yeah my dad's car had that problem. I have to build a new battery tray before I can even drive it. I found it and picked it up for him and it had some smoke coming from the right engine compartment vent all teh way home. I thought it was just oil burning off the manifold from sitting (bad valve cover gasket).

I was LUCKY cuz later I found out that the pulley had burned all the way through the case and the smoke was plastic and battery acid!!!

perk

Great idea for a thread !

quote Originally posted by perkidelic: Yeah my dad's car had that problem. I have to build a new battery tray before I can even drive it. I found it and picked it up for him and it had some smoke coming from the right engine compartment vent all teh way home. I thought it was just oil burning off the manifold from sitting (bad valve cover gasket). I was LUCKY cuz later I found out that the pulley had burned all the way through the case and the smoke was plastic and battery acid!!! perk

This happend to my 84!

quote Originally posted by perkidelic: Yeah my dad's car had that problem. I have to build a new battery tray before I can even drive it. I found it and picked it up for him and it had some smoke coming from the right engine compartment vent all teh way home. I thought it was just oil burning off the manifold from sitting (bad valve cover gasket). I was LUCKY cuz later I found out that the pulley had burned all the way through the case and the smoke was plastic and battery acid!!! perk

Thats exactly what mine did, smoke from battery acid and plastic on the pulley. I didnt replace the tray, was only 16 at the time and had no experice with cars, I put a screw through the hand of the battery with a drew straight into the frame and it didnt move an inch after that lol

only other problem was a replacement + battery cable that kept hitting the exhaust, took me 3 weeks to find out why my car would stall suddenly on the freeway when I figured it out I was ready to kick the crap outta my mechanic, never used him again for that and several other reasons, at that point I was a little better with cars and working on them. This is a perfect example of the items me and Minn outlined, definitely want to keep stuff OFF the Exhaust Manifold.

and yes, it was an 84, if i remember right they fixed it later with something, dont remember what. I dont remember the 84 having the plastic battery tray my 87 did, not sure if it was missing or just didnt come with it.

[This message has been edited by yashmack (edited 08-18-2003).]

My Input
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030204-2-023644.html

Perk,

Kind'a off the battery thing, but along the lines of a fire system. A suggestion for your serious performance cars. I installed an onboard fire system. 10 lb. Fire Bottle in the racecar. I know it is overkill, but how much is your life worth? For a street setup, a 5 lb would work for the engine compartment. A much better system than "oh my gosh, there's a fire!... where is the extinguisher!?.... found it.... (spray)". $300 bucks and the fire can be (most likely) contained without taking the time to get close to the fire.

Not practical for all, but a substantial option. Just my 0.02

Paul

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Paul Hosler
- Silver '87 GT Daily diver.
- Modified IMSA Tube chassis racecar (in progress)

setup the racing auto-fire extinguishing setup in the engine bay!

where is 'Mark the "*" guy' when you need him???

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Buddy *there are two "G"s in my name*
Ling = 84SE 350 N2O Poly MrMike seats Sequentials
"unnamed"=85GT stock (mostly)
KCFOG

I've heard coolant is combustable to some degree... has this been a cause of any Fiero fires?

I just rebuilt my battery tray, one problem solved. I need to replace the oil pressure sending unit. All wires are accounted for. I may modify the exhaust since the cat is not actually required here on cars this old(and I have a spare system if the laws change). The mods would involve removing the loop which contants the air intake "stove" and the cat, this would remove a lot of heat radtiating surface area from the engine compartment.

Ira

quote Originally posted by tjfennel: I've heard coolant is combustable to some degree... has this been a cause of any Fiero fires?

from what I was told the early first run Iron Duke 4 cyl engines were cold cast, means they were cast at too low a temperature when they were made, and because of this they had a tendancy to crack the block. When this would happen coolant would spray out of the crack (I guess depending where the crack was?) and hit the exhaust and ignite, coolant as a liquid is not flammable but when you spray it it picks up air, gets atomised, and become flammable.

anyone else heard this? I read this on my early experience with ym first fiero, havent seenit anywhere since and dont remember where I saw it

yashmack
yes I have heard this, there was also a problem with connecting rods. Basically the foundry that made 2.5 rods in early 1984, had no real quality control, in effect they were paid by the ton. The result was a failure rate as high as 20% for these rods under certain conditions. Here is how it adds up for early 1984:

1) poorly placed main wiring junction (moved for 1985 to the battery area)
2) reduced oil capacity (running change to larger capacity filter)
3) blocks often cracked, usually at the lifter gallery (better castings by late 1984)
4) defective connecting rods (fixed by late 1984)

A typical 1984 fire scenario was like this, owner didn't check oil for a while, poorly sealed rocker arm cover or crack in lifter gallery caused significant oil loss, defective rod is momentarily starved of oil and snaps, broken rod punches hole in front of block, spilling what is left of the hot engine oil over the exhaust manifold, catalytic converter and main wiring junction, hopefully driver and passenger are now running to a phone because the car is now a plastic BBQ.

GM's "cure" :

1) Relocate dipstick so less oil is dripped on the manifold and people may actually check oil because now they are not afraid to check oil for fear of manifold burns.

2) replace exhaust manifold with later design 87/88 type.

3) place a shield on the forward side of the engine (under exhaust manifold) so that if a hole was punched in the block it did not empty the oil on the exhaust system.

4) specify a different oil filter

5) wrap wiring around engine in fire resistent tape

6) add stickers to warn owners to check oil

Biggest causes of present Fiero engine fires:
1) old cars have many leaks, must fix
2) all wiring must be properly positioned and in good condition to be safe
3) too small wiring for rediculously powerful stereo amps
4) dress up items in engine compartment which are not designed for high temperature operation
5) lack of basic maintenance (by previous or current owner)

Ira

Any car - especially older ones - has the potential for an engine fire. Hot parts and flammable fluids under pressure are a tricky combination - especially when those fluids are running through 20 year old rubber hoses.

Many cars catch fire each day - but their metal bodies contain the flames and all you see is some smoke and scorched paint. A Fiero's plastic body goes up like a bonfire, though - very showy, people like to talk about this.

Replace those old hoses - fuel lines, coolant hoses. Repair those oil leaks. And it's cheap insurance to carry a fire extinguisher...

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: 5. Decorative wire loom - much of this is not rated for Fiero-engine-compartment temps. Be aware of what you're putting in that engine compartment (I believe GT Dude lost another car to this). [/URL]

I just had to look up this thread to post in another. The archived thread is now here.

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This is fire-related, but not exactly about prevention, more about limiting the fuel to a fire. Anyone use an impact-actuated switch in the power line to the fuel pump? These are commonly found on late model Ford products. Wired this way, in case of an impact accident, they would immediately cut off power to the fuel pump.

How much would an entry-level on board Halon system cost? Has anyone considered this? Not a bad idea considering how long it can take to stop the car, get the extinguisher, pop the decklid and douse the fire. Besides, Halon won't hurt anything and doesn't make a mess.

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You know you're an engineer when you have no life and can prove it mathematically.

I mentioned this in another thread, but when I was replacing a fuel pump, I noticed that something had run down the back side of the tank and found a fuel leak on the hose barbs that come out of the tank. Not a big deal to fix.
Mostly, just a good general inspection with a shop light can help some potential problems.

I think the best advice is to not push your luck on anything that needs attention.

tg

I haven't yet seen anyone mention fuel lines! If you have original fuel lines, odds are they're dry rotted and cracked (like old brake hoses). I recently ran into this issue on my own SE V6. One morning on my way to work I noticed a STRONG fuel smell...turned out one of the fuel lines was leaking through a crack in the rubber half. I really simply lucked out by not catching on fire. Luckily I was all the way to work when it really started leaking and was able to immediately shut it off. After a tow home and a lot of money for replacement hoses (Fiero Store offers both factory rubber/steel hoses or braided steel hoses) my Fiero was ready to run again. This issue isn't really a Fiero only issue, this can happen on any old car...just take the time to check them out. Next time you're under the car, perhaps when you change your fuel filter, check those rubber hoses!

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quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: where is 'Mark the "*" guy' when you need him???

How did *I* miss this thread?????

Buy a fire extinguisher!!!!!!

Keep your McDonald's wrappers off of the exhaust manifolds. Do not warm your old cheeseburger on the intake manifold. Do not wire up your super stereo with 22 gauge wire. Do not leave that back-up gallon of gasoline inside the car on a sunny day with the windows rolled up (actually, leave the windows cracked a bit ). Don't replace your old battery cables with household extension cord wire and wire nuts.

BUY A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!!!!

Mark the fire extinguisher guy

Yeah, that's a bit much. I was wondering if there was a consumer level product, maybe in the under $500 price range.

I'll just make sure I've got a good extinguisher in all of my cars.