quote Originally posted by jscott1: Yes Archie, I would like you to post step-by-step instructions for how to chop top a Fiero, with illustrated drawings including the dotted lines for where to cut and weld...j/k I think it would hurt your business just a bit if you were to give away all your secrets on a public forum.

Hey now, I didn't say that! But could you? haha just kidding just kidding.

No, I'm not asking him to give away any secrets or anything. I mean really, anyone who owns a chop top can probably just pull their skins off their car and take pictures, but I just wanna see what it looks like. Not the process of the job or anything like that. Just pictures of what it looks like with no skins.

Welds are ugly, no matter what way you look at them (unless it's from a welder's point of view, in which case even some stuff that looks ugly to the common people could look beautiful to them), I just wanna see what it looks like without the skins.

Again, I'm asking all these questions 'cause I wanna make sure my money is well spent. $3600 is a lot of money to spend, after all. That's almost as much as I paid for my car.

Looks red.

holy... crap...!!

6 inch chop??

quote Originally posted by Jays 86: hey archie can glass door windows be made?

In almost all modern cars (including the Fiero) all of the windows are curved, tempered safety glass. When the automotive industry started building cars that didn't have a frame around the window, they found that the windows would break when someone pushed on the window to close the door. That's when they started to Temper the curved Safty Glass they were using then.

The Tempering process is what makes the windows so that you CANNOT CUT OR RESHAPE THEM IN ANY WAY.

Windows can be made but the cost is very high. The tooling and minimum order requirements would be well over $40K. Heck the tooling for the windows I currently use was more than $5K.

Those that think our price is too high, just really don't have a clue as to what all is involved in this type of modification.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Yes Archie, I would like you to post step-by-step instructions for how to chop top a Fiero, with illustrated drawings including the dotted lines for where to cut and weld...j/k I think it would hurt your business just a bit if you were to give away all your secrets on a public forum.

I'll be out of town until this time tomorrow, then I'll find a couple of pics I can share. As you said, I won't be posting a play by play. People can copy this idea, but I'm not going to help them with a step by step.

As far as hurting the business. To be honest, at the price I've been doing the chops for, it's been pretty well a "break even" deal.

Archie

I'm working on my new pc & just noticed that I don't have PIP loaded on it yet, so all pics. will have to wait 'til tomorrow.

How long is your car expected to be out of commission when its in for a chop top? Although I have the money for one and am tempted to get it done I have heard that you wont have your car for over 4 months. This is my daily driver so you can see where I run into problems.

ok glass is out, how much are lexan replacements?

quote Originally posted by opm2000: Looks red.

well, Archie never chooped a red one No red chopped GTs though

Archie, I hope you realize I was kidding.

If I want a chop top done right, I would come to you. If I set out on my own to do it, then I wouldn't expect you to give me a step by step instruction...unless you want to make it a kit? I think forming the lexan windows would be the most difficult part of the homebuilt chop top. Are they for sale?

Not to flame you or anything Archie, But Ive had quite a few auto safety glasses cut down for steel chopped top cars, and lots of mirrors (also tempered) cut on the spot. Ive got side windows in my GT40 that were cut down from Ford LTD, to 10" high. Directions from Fiberfab kitcars in fact tells you how to have Mazda RX-7 glass trimmed to fit. A guy in Cambridge, Oh, can make a custom glass for anything with your specs. Sorry but I dont have his name right here but can get it, if you may get him to custom make them for your choptops.

edit to add, I assume the ones Ive had done are all tempered. It could be that they were just automotive safety glass and not tempered. I dont know when they started that. I do know that outside mirrors ive had cut say on them 'Tempered Glass'. I will admit I dont know about what is safety or tempered glass, I just figured all auto glass is safety glass. on the GT40 i dont see anything in the glass saying tempered.
The Corvette does however, say 'Solid Tempered' in the glass.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 09-03-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: Nice paint job you have there, Who did it for you? Archie

You see, there was this homeless drunk......

Roger, safety glass is not tempered glass. Safety glass is two pieces of glass with a plastic layer between. Tempered glass is a solid piece of glass that is heated and cooled quickly. It creates a molecular structure that causes the glass to break into tiny pieces. Most door and sunroof glass is tempered since it has a high chance of being struck or dropped. Safety glass is required for windshields. It breaks is long sharp pieces but is held together by the plastic sheet inside of it. This prevents passengers from being thrown threw the windshield and from being injured buy hitting an ungiving surface. All windows on a Fiero are tempered except the windshield. To my knowledge only the windshield could be recut to a shape. Tempered glass is strong but unstable to be cut. My removable rear window consists of three pieces. The side pieces are safety glass and the center removable center section is custom made tempered glass. To make the center piece the window starts out as regular glass. It is cut to shape including holes needed in it. It was then shipped to a tempering facility to be tempered. It took 4 attempts to create it because it broke during the tempering. My engine window is also custom tempered glass. It only took one attempt with it since it did not have any holes. Holes cause weakness in the glass.

[This message has been edited by skitime (edited 09-03-2003).]

Archie has been sending me pics of my choptop progress as it was under construction this summer. If he doesn't have a problem with me sharing them, I'd be happy to email em to one of you guys to post on the forum. I just need a yes or no from Arch!
Hoping to pick up the finished car in the next week or two!

quote Originally posted by Firefox: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archie: Nice paint job you have there, Who did it for you? Archie

You see, there was this homeless drunk......

[/QUOTE]

well, i do hear that they do excellent work!

I hope to do this in a few years too, but I have one question about it.

The interior, I haven't seen any pictures of the interior. What exactly is done to modify the interior panels? How does it look? Are there any interior shots of choptops?

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Dan
1985 Silver GT

Selling my rebuilt and never run LT1, if interested email me dankuzma@hotmail.com.

...Just a helpful hint for any of you lucky enough have "the lid lowered" and are dealing with the lexan windows,clean them with a VERY soft (baby diaper type) cloth with a lil' soap and water because normal type cleaners (windex etc..) have abrasives that will scratch! There is a specialty cleaner that's made for lexan or plexiglass,but I haven't tried it yet.
(Glass cutter by day....Fiero fanatic by night!..LOL!)

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~Properly Twisted '86SE~

Since your on the glass subject. Remember the guy in Germany making the GT quarter windows out of real glass? See if he could make custom glass panels for the chop tops.

quote Originally posted by JetroGT: Since your on the glass subject. Remember the guy in Germany making the GT quarter windows out of real glass? See if he could make custom glass panels for the chop tops.

Good idea!

If you have ever had your car broken into you know what tempered glass is...the window will be broken into a thousand little pieces. Ironically if you have aftermarket tint, it's almost like safety glass because all the thousands of pieces will still be stuck to the tint in one piece. Dont ask me how I know.

Still, getting the windows right would be the most difficult part of trying to do your own choptop. Archie already spent $5K for the rigs to form the lexan windows. That's more than what a choptop costs, so it's not cost effective if you are only doing your own roof.

I had my 85SE chopped back in fall of 97 by Archie’s crew, I also had him install a stock Fiero sunroof at the same time. The next summer I installed lowering springs, 88 GT front and rear bumper covers and some 15 inch Beretta wheels. Mechanically the car is stock, V6, auto. Unfortunately that’s where I stopped. I’d drive it a few times a year during the summer, but it’s mostly a dust collector in my garage. However, I did manage to pull the body panels off of it this summer in preparation for paint. Even though I like the car, it hasn’t been a priority for me.
I had a stage two chop done, which means the interior parts were modified, painted, and put back together. The sunroof has a natural bow to it and doesn’t seal completely, but they may be remedied by shimming the latch mechanism for a better fit.
The rear window is removable but I found out very quickly it’s not something I use much. The engine heat and associated smells literally roll into the interior of the car. In order for it to be bearable I have to have both windows down, the sunroof out and be moving at least 45mph.
A couple of years ago I decided to go with the 87/88 coupe facias, and after seeing Archie’s yellow stinger that pretty much convinced me that’s the look I want. While not as exotic looking as the fastback, I think the coupe is a cleaner look, more pure in design if that makes any sense. Now if I could just find affordable 20 inch wheels. Color wise I go from bright white to silver to red to black.
Reactions to the car are varied. Though I’ve found just because people stare doesn’t mean they like it, it just means they are trying to figure out what the heck it is. My main reason for having the Fiero chopped, other than thinking it was designed two inches too high, was simply to have the lowest car in my town. Now that it’s apart I’ll probably start working on it more. I want to replace a few body panels, possible some subtle custom touches, but basically this car is going to be a driver, not a show car. There are pics of it somewhere on the forum. I also installed an IRM wrap around whale tail on if for awhile to see if I liked it, but with the height of the spoiler, and the chop, you could barely see out the back. So it’s back to the drawing boad.
If you're serious about wanting yours chopped the best thing you can do is inspect and drive one, that should help you decide if it's the right idea for you. Good luck.

What an interesting, informative thread! I'm doing my own chop top, so I've had experience with
some of the points discussed. Let me say first that Archie's prices are fantastic - don't expect to
do it or have it done for less. About the glass: A minor terminology point - tempered glass =
"safety glass"; laminated glass is laminated glass. As Archie noted, tempered glass can't be
modified at all; it will shatter into small bits, as it is designed to do. As for cutting laminated glass,
curving a winshield involves heating it which puts some temper in it and makes cutting it risky as well.

For my doors I'm using lexan formed for the '82 - '88 F body cars. Available from Summit
Racing, they have about exactly the right curves in the vertical and horizontal planes and have
enough height vertically to fit the pattern for a 3" chop top; won't work to replace a stock
window, though. Nice thing is that they have a surface coating that's supposed to be almost as
hard as glass. My windshield is from a '90 Buick.

Orville

quote Originally posted by Orville: For my doors I'm using lexan formed for the '82 - '88 F body cars. Available from Summit Racing, they have about exactly the right curves in the vertical and horizontal planes and have enough height vertically to fit the pattern for a 3" chop top; won't work to replace a stock window, though. Nice thing is that they have a surface coating that's supposed to be almost as hard as glass. My windshield is from a '90 Buick. Orville

Neat info there. Thanks for sharing.

quote Originally posted by ChopTop: If you're serious about wanting yours chopped the best thing you can do is inspect and drive one, that should help you decide if it's the right idea for you. Good luck.

Would anyone be willing to let me test drive their's when it comes time for me to decide on the choptop?

reply: Would someone let me test drive a choptop? posted by tjfennel. No, however you can roll with-me as passenger..$2.00 per mile.

Is choptop expensive? No, but i guess you will pay more to have it shipped round-trip from Honolulu to CA...not including logging, gas, food, and round trip flight from Chicago to Hawaii, unless your staying 2 or more weeks in Chicago. Dude, I would be more concered about the total cost v. how much do you think your "car" is worth to YOU!
How is the quality of a choptop?. As was stated in earlier posts, for me... 100% others may say less. It depends on your own views about a Fiero. For me Fiero's are a dime-a-dozen..I would be singing a different tune if the car was worth 50 grand..no way! To ease your fears, the only way it could possibly be better would be from the factory (because of glass and 100% window seal). I went by the seat of my pants.
I heard negitive remarks about the choptop
(common w/all fiero owerners anyway)but none the less, I'ed drove my car from CA to Il (2300 miles one-way?) without even test driving one. I sat in the Stinger to see if I'd fit (Archie is taller than me, if he could fit,so could I), looked at the interior pieces, and exterior. Rolled the windows up/down, closed the door several times, no problem. No time to test for rain leaks, in/out drive ways sqweeks. My actions was based on Archie's word. The only thing different other than suicide doors was i wanted sun visors and install Fiero Store fiberglass hoodliner. I forgot the exact amount, but it was over 3 grand. I had the door locks , scissor (inside door) replaced.
I choose to leave the roof line untouched
(wanted a electrical sun roof or something...pipe dream)I followed Archie's instruction on the material to use and the roof line is seamless, with no dips in the middle. Someone stated that with a sun roof there is a slight dip in the middle, mine is solved. Do a search for pics (Vegas-fest)....anyway you would be the only guy in Hawaii with a V8/choptop = bad glut/max!!

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quote Originally posted by madcurl: reply: Would someone let me test drive a choptop? posted by tjfennel. No, however you can roll with-me as passenger..$2.00 per mile.

I was kidding about anyone letting me test drive their car but I'll be givin' you a call before I choose to go chop top! (I'll save up some cash for a choptop experience ride )

quote anyway you would be the only guy in Hawaii with a V8/choptop = bad glut/max!!

That... would... own!!

Would I perhaps be the only red choptop GT as well?

When it comes down to it, though, I really like the look. No, I love the look! I'm glad the choptop sounds like a solid procedure from everyone's description here, and no doubt I'll be givin' Archie a ring in the future (though when that may be depends on how my cash flow looks).

Archie,

Do you offer any kind of "package" discount for someone who gets the full treatment (V-8 swap, chop, etc)?

Thanks,
Flamberge

quote Originally posted by sloth85GT: I hope to do this in a few years too, but I have one question about it. The interior, I haven't seen any pictures of the interior. What exactly is done to modify the interior panels? How does it look? Are there any interior shots of choptops?

As seen at the GTA show...

quote Originally posted by David Bartlett:

Ouch!

That is soooo dope!!! Talk about closterfobic, I wonder if that can be done on my t-top and lower the top until it almost hits the seats! My girlfriend's hair will actually be flapping over the top, lol

I think shipping one-way to the California is something like $800. After that, I'm sure the total bill for lodging and food would be somewhere in the range of $1000-2000 for 2 weeks while the procedure is being done, along with whatever gas is used, rental car fees, and other fees...

Phew! Expensive... not the chop top... just the other stuff. Madcurl, how'd you get it done, anyway? Had it towed over to Archie's or something?

Archie, how's the update on the pics lookin'?

reply: how did I ship it to Archie?
Posted by tjfennel.

I had the car shipped to Archie. Ryan came from Ok to CA and picked it up at my house...very professional. He was delivering a V8 to CA, he gave me a cut rate.
If I had to do it all over again I would use him again, especially if your car is fixed up.

All together from Hawaii to LA, you said $800 right? Add another $800+ from CA to Chicago, you might be better off if you shipped it there, less chance of your car breaking down with you in it...costing you more money. I personally don't trust anything that's stock. Besides, that is way to much crap in the trunk (extra module,coil, tools, fire extinguisher, and clothes). Have it shipped there and pick it up from Archie's w/V8 & chopped...yes! And drive it back to Cali...stylin & profil'n.

If your serious, I'm going to send my other car there within a few months, /Ryan might offer a 2for 1 deal or at cute rate. He can haul 2 cars in the trailer. Or I can drive my car there myself, but like I said 2.8 aint worth the headache worrying if your going to make it or not, and you better carry a visa card for sure!

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madcurl: hey thanks for the offer! though I really appreciate it, there's no way I could afford it right now. Seeing how my funds are and where I hope to be in a few years, this project is a ways off. I'm still giving it a lot of thought, too. I'm short compared to a lot of you guys on this board, so I have a lot of headroom in the car. I was actually thinking today how high above my head the roof actually is! It almost feels odd considering how low to the ground the car is. Chances are about 75% leaning toward getting the car chopped...

If it's $800 from LA to IL, then that's gonna be a $2400 total transit cost if I drive it back to LA myself. (YIKES!!) Good point about the 2.8. It's been reliable so far, even on long drives around the island, but I dunno how it'd hold up to a cross-country drive.

Btw, I was thinking about your car today, madcurl. With the chop and the color and all, the car must look much better in person than it does in pictures.

Now I am off to dream about a choptop Fiero...

Someone asked what the interior panels looked like.

When chopping a top you need to modify the interior panels too. On our chop top we now make these parts out of fiberglass and sand & paint to match the interior.

Archie

Cool work there Archie

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Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car UPDATED 8-11-03

Hey Archie, what is the cost for the new fiberglass b-piller pieces (left & right)? Was the fiberglass piece modified only or also b-piller too? Or can my pieces be modified? And did you modifiy the release switch? My interior pieces are painted but wanted to know is it worth it buying and painting them.
I have these 4x6 speakers collecting dust.

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Archie,
Those interior shots look familiar - do I get extra credit for being the test case for the new speaker placement?

Jim