It's been bumped so I'll reply!

filthyscarecrow, stop by the drexel tent if you make it out this year. Anyone else is welcome too. Just ask for the crazy kid that can't stop talking about carbon and you'll be pointed my way

I saw a couple fieros in the parking lot at last years event so I know there's fiero people out there!

I haven't done any real work since the last update, I'm going to put the last layer on the mold tomorrow if it doesn't rain or look like it's going to.

More importantly, I sold my router yesterday http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2043614329. Much to my surprise, within minutes of listing on ebay I was given an offer of almost twice what I was expecting to get for it! So I'll be buying the BIG vacuum pump for baggin tomorrow along with the rest of the supplies. Oh yeah! Tuesday I plan to take a trip to pick up the carbon fiber itself.

I didn't want to announce this earlier but I think I'm going to hit my target of having the prototype done by the pa dutch show. I'm not sure if it'll be glossed by then but it should be on my car.

not be change the subject but thats the drexel dragon i see on the nose of the formula car isn't it......i was attending drexel a few months ago, for engineering then switched majors to architecture and transfered to another college. just thought i'd add that

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Eric
'87 GT 5-speed Gold/Tan

if we get reinstated and we actually get to go this year i'll definitely stop by. when i was there in 01, i was doign most of the mechanic work along with one other guy while everyone else just kind of sat around, so i was pretty busy. unfortunately, we've only got about 10 people on the team right now, with myself nad one other guy being the only ones returning, but our frame is already done, and 98% of the design work is done (mostly last year's car since we didn't get to go) so hopefully we'll have the bugs worked out by january and the thing will run like we want it to.

So PO'd. I called up AVT this afternoon to order the pump and vacuum bagging supplies(it's a lot of stuff) and found out that Joel had went out on vacation for the week. Why couldn't he tell me that when I was talking to him last week!

His secretary, Ronda, doesn't know which pump he was going to sell me. UGH!

This is going to be tight.

Oh yeah, it was raining today so finishing the mold got delayed.

Hey Howard-kinda O/T, but here goes. I saw your work with the race car, and wanted some advice. Some buddies and I are fabbing a mini-dune buggy with a 550cc Suzuki four and 6-speed gearbox for power. I'm kinda stuck on spindle design for the front A arms. The spindle has got to be weldable or buyable, as I seemed to have left my CNC machine at my ex-girlfriend's house. Should I go with four-wheeler spindles and ball joints? We have a nonrunning four wheeler I pirated the rear suspension from already-then I could use the four wheeler's disc brakes. Ideas?

Any progress? I'm getting pretty anxious to see how this works out, as I may actually end up building a vacuum setup myself before the end of the year.

I'm assuming you're just waiting for this week to get over so you can order your vacuum stuff.

Bryce
88 GT

Yeah I'm just waiting. I've been pretty busy this week without though so it might be a good thing I couldn't get my supplies.

On tuesday the hard disk on my server died and I had to do a midnight-early morning restoration of clients websites, mailing lists and email.

I still don't have my personal sites fully up.

I've also been trying to get my fiero up and going. I finally picked up a special chip today (4 hours total driving) and it didn't work right :-(

So I pulled my 19# injectors and put the 15s in along with some other mods. Steel vacuum lines, new carbon upper and lower intakes, bored TB, cleaned up fuel rail. . . I think the carbon intake might have been a day dream but I did swap in an engraved one while I had the old one off. I'm going to double check everything in the morning and fire it up with the stock computer.

Plus all sorts of electrical engineering stuff (they're throwing a term's worth of labs into the last two weeks of class!)

I'll have some carbon results by next friday. Don't worry.

About the drivetrain stuff. I don't know. What I do know is I would pick up the cnc machine from your ex because they're kind of pricey ;-)

Hey Howard, looks like whe share more intrests than carbon, I've got a 3620 in my machine room ) Cisco makes good kit, if you can afford it (try buying a fast ethernet/WIC module for a 3600, damn!)

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Artherd, I think the router was a waste of money, but it was the year 2000 and I had a lot of money and not a lot of time so I did what was the quickest and easiest. One day, when I get my T3, I'll just put a DSU into a linux box(now that I'm thinking about it though when I get the money to be able to buy a T3, I probably won't have time to play around with linux and will go for cisco again ). It was a really nice product though. Never a single issue.

I bought the carbon thursday.

I put the last layer on that mold today. I'm going to let it bake on monday and then monday night, I'll find out if I used enough mold release. Hopefully I'll remember my camera for pics.

Vacuum stuff I should be ordering on monday. I'll have it two day aired.

SO it still might be possible for me to get this done for the dutch show if everything goes according smoothly. It's about 50/50.

I took the mold off the plug today!

It went really well. Much to my surprise, the mold release worked and the decklid is even reusable.

The mold itself is really smooth and glassy. There are some air bubbles but all in all, I'm very impressed with the $17/gallon resin. And it's REALLY light too.

I've got the carbon but am waiting for the vacuum bagging supplies. I'm really tempted to do a wet layup of carbon now(without the vacuum bagging), but I'm going to wait at least till thursday. Hopefully it will come by then.

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Looks pretty sweet man!

Can't wait to see what your bagging yeilds, will the glassfibre/resin mould hold up to vacumm bagging/baking? I've always used something very rigid eg fibreglass/plaster-of-paris or zero-shrink fibre reinforced ceramic clay even.

(that, or billet aluminum cut on a mill :P)

(Yeah, some cisco gear is *hiddiously* overpriced. I bought my 3620 for $1,100 used loaded with ram, etc. Sweet at that price

PS: a 3640 handles a T3 very nicely. Check ebay, used Cisco I've found to be pretty competitive.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Sweet! Thanks for the update. What are you using for mold release?

Bryce
88 GT

About how much weight do you think one would lose with a carbon fiber decklid?

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero

Enough, how's that GT?

[This message has been edited by DarkRain (edited 08-13-2002).]

I was tempted to post pics of my roll of carbon but I guess that would be boring. It is really good stuff. I'm surprised because it was cheap. TIGHT weave and it's very soft(that means it's fresh).

Also, anyone have a set of GT sail panels or scoops they wouldn't mind getting rid of? I don't want to have to make the plug from scratch. (There might be a set of carbon ones in return for whoever is nice enough)

Artherd, I hope it holds up. This is my first time bagging. We'll see. It's just 15psi. If not, I'll reinforce the next one. I'm not going to say what I paid for my cisco, but it was retail :-(. I'm hoping you recently bought yours off ebay, because at the I time I bought mine, the used ones weren't too much cheaper than new.

Nasco, I don't remember what brand. It was generic boat store kind though. The pink kind. Not the green type. I'll get the name tomorrow when I'm in the lab. I applied it with a t-shirt and let it sit for 20 minutes before laying up the fiber.

GTFiero, I don't know how much less it's going to weigh. The mold was significantly lighter than the original and it's going to be heavier than the carbon decklids.

We'll see when I'm done. All composites are different.

Howard, one thing you can do would be to grab a couple of recent 3800SC and N/A plastic engine covers - modify them to fit with the Fiero swap, then use them as a plug for carbon 3800 engine panels, I can't speak for everyone but I am sure there would be a significant demand to do this, hell even just a stock panel reproduced in CF to sell off to the Gran Prix guys, this might turn into a little side buisness for you

And I can think of at least 10 things for the V-series Blazer's ( 74-91 K5 Blazers ) that folks in my Blazer club would be ALL OVER if the could get it in CF.....

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( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or
imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor
bastard ) :)

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
310-305-4111

Howard: PM about quarter windows!

Update: I got all sorts of cool stuff today.

The pump

Other vacuum baggin supplies

The carbon itself came earlier this week

Close up of the carbon

I still need to pick up disposable connectors for the vacuum pump, atv only had billet ones and a gauge. Also, I'm still trying to get my car to run right without the turbo.

Eric, that's what I'm kind of scared of! Once you start doing this stuff, you get requests from friends with miatas, vws, s10s (and today CORSICAS!) etc to do parts for their cars.

What is the story with the 3800 cover? Will it not fit in the fiero in its stock form? Rockcrawl's always got stuff going, I could try one and do a test fit in one of his.

I seen a trunk lid for a 2nd gen camaro on ebay, for 180, and it was pure carbon fiber. Not some carbon overlayed on fiberglass, so I know you could come down on the price, I will pay 200 for a decklid not 500. What about front bumper?

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86 FIERO GT, puttin a N* and tons of other goodies. STAY TUNED

a reproduction GT nose would be nice, since replacement ones are pretty pricey but i doubt a carbon fiber one would be any cheaper

86fieroGT, have you ever seen a 2nd gen camaro trunk lid? Hell even i could make one, its a lot smaller and simpler than the fiero decklid. Also that trunk lid was probably made by a big company that can prouduce them cheaper and quicker than one thats completely hand made. personally i would pay around $400.00 for the decklid, and about $450.00 for one with an integrated mustang scoop

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero

Howard, well - the problem is that you essentially have to cut the 3800 cover all to hell to get it to work, and even baring in mind the infinite amount of differences between custom t-stat housings, fuel lines, vacum lines, etc.

However when all is said and done you are left with a unit that is cut all to hell just to get it to fit 180 degrees so that the "3800 SeriesII Supercharged" can be read from the rear of the car.

I would suggest non-text versions to make things easier, and a generalized unit that could work, I could get my hands on 3 different units that have been moded to work with the fiero ( 1 on the turbo 38 GT, another on a stock 3800 SC series II/4T65E setup, and the other in a 38 series II turbocharged 88 Beretta )

If you need plugs and could make these within the $400.00-$500.00 range - then I myself would be all over this for our swaps like a sick bastard!!!

hehe - for a real challenge, want to make a carbon fiber rear shell for my blazer - pull that one off and I would straight bow-down to you

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( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or
imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor
bastard ) :)

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
310-305-4111

86 FIERO GT, LOL. This isn't negotiable. I'm making half a dozen of these things. I don't think there's going to be a problem getting rid of them. Look how much the import hoods go for. Hell, even look how much archie charges for a warber hood.

Not that I have to justify the price, but aluminum honeycomb isn't cheap, approx $100 for a deck. The epoxy isn't cheap $225/gallon and each decklid uses about 1/2 a gallon. The carbon isn't exactly inexpensive either. Plus vacuum bagging supplies. And my time?

quote Originally posted by 86 FIERO GT: I seen a trunk lid for a 2nd gen camaro on ebay, for 180, and it was pure carbon fiber.

Damn I hate it when PFF cheapes out.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Hey Howard, I've been tossing around the idea of a 'glass scoop to go over the factory intake inlet, kinda like a mini sideways Pro Stock scoop, but bolt on, like a Holley scoop. If I make a plug for it and send it your way, you think you could make a couple? BTW, you still interested in making a NB decklid?

I would love to have you make a plug of my Fiero front hood with the ZR2 scoop, or buy 1 for yourself, then make your own plug. I would love a one piece, carbon fiber front hood with ZR2 scoop intergrated together. I know this would be a great seller. Too many people buy the ZR2 scoop and don't install it correctly and it cracks and has too much of a front lip, and they don't trim the front of the scoop to blend with the sides. Good job so far on the rear.

Update 9/12:

I let the cat out of the bag in another tread and have been getting some emails so I'll post an "official" update. I'm sorry if I didn't answer any one specifically, I try, but I'm just very busy and might have missed yours.

I popped the prototype out of the mold about ta week and a half ago now. I was waiting for pictures from a digital camera so I'd have higher quality images, but the guy who took them has yet to post them to the network server, so yesterday when I was down at the lab I took some video. . .

Well the back looks ok:

It even looks good up close:

What about the top side?

I'm still investigating what went wrong with the mold release. But for now, no more rustoleum primer on the molds. I think what happened was it got along a little too well with the release.

I took some MEK to it and it is helping to take it off, but I don't have the time right now to really take it off. Maybe in a week or so I'll get down with some more of it and sand paper. the parts where I was able to get the paint and compound out look really nice unfortunately so I can't bring myself to through it out.

The next mold I make, I'm going to have painted professionally with automotive paint or with something harder or possibly even just cnc a couple pieces of aluminum and use that as a mold.

I am thinking about taking the kids from ohio states advice and making carbon molds . . .

btw, nasco I got a mask

[This message has been edited by Howard_Sacks (edited 09-12-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Castlebuilt: I would love to have you make a plug of my Fiero front hood with the ZR2 scoop, or buy 1 for yourself, then make your own plug. I would love a one piece, carbon fiber front hood with ZR2 scoop intergrated together. I know this would be a great seller. Too many people buy the ZR2 scoop and don't install it correctly and it cracks and has too much of a front lip, and they don't trim the front of the scoop to blend with the sides. Good job so far on the rear.

Skitimes done the best job with the front hood scoop

Schweet! Looking great Howard.

You dont have to throw it out, you can easily give it to me

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero
What oil leak? That puddle under the car is just sweat from all that horsepower.

You can't paint a mould, though powder-coating has worked, it's not ideal either.

Metal or glass or other exoxy-bearing material (eg carbon, which also has the benefit of expanding/contracting at the same rate as the piece) works well.

Keep it up man, looks a little rough, but you're on track!

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Thanks for the support guys. This is my first time working with carbon(and I only did a couple fiberglass pieces before that) and it has been a real learning experience.

I know it looks rough and it is, but what is encouraging is that it does look like what real race cars like the Audis, Panozes, Porsches, Ferraris look like in person. I know I've said this before, but if you can, it's really worth it to get out to a Grand Prix to check some of those cars out. I know I walked away saying "there's no reason why I can't make that."

GT1Fiero, after I make the prototype mounting hardware and clean it up a bit, I'm going to ebay it for $1 NR. Since you're local, you probably should see it in person before bidding because it is "rough."

Artherd, you can paint a mold, but just not with spray paint! How dumb was that! It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm not going to tell how long and with how many different grits and I sanded that for and with.

I'm really tempted to cnc some aluminum for the next mold. Metal molds really are the best. If only cost was no object . . . .. For now, I'll see how the carbon dash mold I made holds up.

I'm glad you gave us an update, I was just about to dig this out of the past. I'm also glad you got a mask...ha!

Yeah, doesn't matter how much mold release you use, spray paint just doesn't stick. I found this out on a much smaller and inconsequential test piece...I used grey primer with black gloss on top of it. When I pulled the mold it was a pain to get all the paint off, but when I did the mold still looked fine. I just used a scraper to chip the paint away, because the spray paint is so brittle and thin. I did it under a little running water, as my part was very small, to avoid scratching the surface of the mold much.

Good job on the progress; even slow progress is progress! How'd the pump work out for you, have any sealing problems?

Bryce
88 GT

barrumpa bump bump...

Hey Howard, hope life is treating you well. I'm looking forward to hearing about a sucessful carbon fiber dash and if you've tried again with the deck lid.

Bump to top to compare this Quality VS. Archie's glassman(NOT ARCHIE!!)!!

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SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
Have you RATED me today??
3.4DOHC SWAP in near future

My carbon work is beautiful. If you followed the story, it was my first time working with the stuff and I made several mistakes along the way. The main one was using spray paint as primer on the mold.

Should I edit out the information that I've shared?

I don't have a trimmed picture yet. It looks like an "I" trimmed out.
[img]
Beautiful. I made the above pedal assembly bracket this morning using the techniques I have tried to share.

It is carbon with a nomex honeycomb core that has a bevel so that the nomex isn't exposed.

[This message has been edited by Howard_Sacks (edited 01-11-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Howard_Sacks (edited 01-22-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Howard_Sacks (edited 01-22-2003).]

Howard Man That Decklid When Shes Done Is Going To Look SO SO SWEET Man ...Although I Would Love To Have A Carbon Fiber deck Lid With ScooP....OHHHHHH What A Dream That Would Be

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My Fiero's
86,gt fastback w/Stock Sub...And MY AC WORKS :)
85 Gt

LOOKING GOOD!

Keep up the good work!
-Ryan