looks a lot smaller than the turbo I am using. note the size of the compressor housing compared to the center section. besides that, what is wrong with the stock pistons?? for one, they suck, no offense. at least the series II stockers have coated tops and are hypereutectic. my question to you is are you running both an SC and a turbo? if you are pushing just 6lbs of boost, I have no doubt you can run the timing you are running. but try heating that air a little bit more. trust me, been there, done that.
I am guessing the S1 pistons (material wise) cannot withstand a lot of rigor from too much heat...and so on and so forth...although tunning like I said is still the key... On the other hand, I ran 11psi on an L36 turbo setup before, I had to back it down on the boost...I am sure this was around 380HP area...I lost the TB intake before I could even hit 4K...having said that, KR is my one and only nemesis right now, still using the stock PCM which I still plan on using till I attain my goal...there is more to be had...I do agree though with more boost less timing is theoretically needed...too many variables
To Ottawa, in theory force feeding the SC will actually help its efficiency...to a point, which will I am sure not be reached due to practicality...the SC will only be a restriction at higher RPMs but who is to say what the % loss will be...gray area! The notion is still interesting!
[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 05-28-2003).]
I am guessing the S1 pistons (material wise) cannot withstand a lot of rigor from too much heat...and so on and so forth...although tunning like I said is still the key... On the other hand, I ran 11psi on an L36 turbo setup before, I had to back it down on the boost...I am sure this was around 380HP area...I lost the TB intake before I could even hit 4K...having said that, KR is my one and only nemesis right now, still using the stock PCM which I still plan on using till I attain my goal...there is more to be had...I do agree though with more boost less timing is theoretically needed...too many variables
To Ottawa, in theory force feeding the SC will actually help its efficiency...to a point, which will I am sure not be reached due to practicality...the SC will only be a restriction at higher RPMs but who is to say what the % loss will be...gray area! The notion is still interesting!
[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 05-28-2003).]
IP: Logged
12:19 AM
spddy Member
Posts: 815 From: Concord ,ca usa Registered: Mar 2003
I don't get it. I love the idea of the turbo and the S/C. Looks and sounds great as an idea.. but I can't see it work. The turbo will force air in the intake faster then the S/C can compress it. therefore the S/C will just be restricting flow. ?? (not flaming hear, just trying to learn the concept).
Eric
yeah, i thought the same thing, the turbo will spool up and force it against the supercharger faster than the supercharger can turn at higher RPM trying to compress compressed air. All the other twin charged cars ive seen had the turbo plumbed into the intake before the supercharger, that way the supercharger isnt in the way of the turbo and both can operate their own way
looks like a clean install otherwise
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed 16 years old and already selling my stuff to pay for repairs to my Fiero...which i sold my stuff to buy in the first place
[This message has been edited by GTFiero1 (edited 05-28-2003).]
IP: Logged
03:28 PM
87gt5speed Member
Posts: 193 From: Columbus,OH,USA Registered: Dec 2002
All i can think is someone's gonna need an intercooler from Hell! doubly compressed air.....so hot.........(want to touch the heiney!)sorry....had to get that out! for those of you who haven't seen Billy Madison, go see it. Now.
------------------ ---"Didn't those catch fire?"--- ---"Why didn't you get an MR2?"--- ---"The engine is WHERE?"--- ---Liking Fiero's is a lonely business---
IP: Logged
09:23 PM
marcustre Member
Posts: 128 From: north florida Registered: Jan 2003
...... And John will be driving the PISS out of the car on a daily basis, if it were to be on a trailer it would be because some folks don't like driving thier cars to shows, and yes, it did show up here on a trailer - only because it came from George Miller's shop where the car was raped and pillaged.
Holy crap, I think I know that car. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I had seen it in front of a junkyard in Brentwood (middle of nowhere). I walked into the office to ask them how much they wanted, and they said "$1100" and I turned around and left, trying not to laugh. It was a *mess*, inside and out. I'm glad to see it will be getting rebuilt and be put back on the road.
IP: Logged
10:19 PM
May 29th, 2003
spddy Member
Posts: 815 From: Concord ,ca usa Registered: Mar 2003
The next postings of buildup of this car will be the details of installing the 1988 C4 Brake upgrade, now we just have to wait for John to let us know if he wants the rotors plain ( ewww ), x-drilled, slotted, dimpled, or a mix of machining.
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
IP: Logged
06:00 AM
spddy Member
Posts: 815 From: Concord ,ca usa Registered: Mar 2003
i'll be glad to brake out my l33t micrometer and give you a cad.dwg only upon completion.
but also...because of the myriad discrete customizations and the laws of Supply and Demand applying for this engine type(series I), the initiative & motivation for this shop to fabricate templates for every machined part is tremendously lacking at this point in time.
unless one knew the true ordeal of this car in the Past ( i refuse to reveal the incident because i dont believe in hurting someone's business) then probably 99% of assumptions here might think this mod is way overkill.
however, i am greatly honored to have been involved with such a team of turning a negative into a bigger positive, surpassing all expectations.
-semper fedelis.
------------------ "..i f"n refuse to upgrade until DooM ]|[ comes out.."
I don't get it. I love the idea of the turbo and the S/C. Looks and sounds great as an idea.. but I can't see it work. The turbo will force air in the intake faster then the S/C can compress it. therefore the S/C will just be restricting flow. ?? (not flaming hear, just trying to learn the concept).
But I can see something really practical. Have the S/C power at the line and the turbo kicking in at higher RPM.
I want to learn more!
Eric
never read up on it but the turbo compresses the air (charge 1)now air has more volume of oxygen, then sends it to the supercharger that doesn't care what happened before it got there, and compresses it again (charge 2)adding still more volume (oxygen) of air to the combustion chambers. the turbo is just giving the SC more air to compress since it is denser (more oxygen & heaver) than normal air.. so they work together, not against, no matter what each on turns at.. the fun part is going to be sure this monster has enough fuel at all times..
------------------
IP: Logged
04:04 AM
Jun 1st, 2003
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Dogbone and bracket assembly installed, ready to be removed and polished
turbo heat sheild installed, all built here in house
trunk compartment heat sheild installed, completed with a nice satin finish
Owner supplied wheels and tires. They are a 17" wheel with all 4 having 215/40/R17 ( tiny ) tires mounted - gonna be one HELL of a fender to rubber gap
IP: Logged
07:01 PM
spddy Member
Posts: 815 From: Concord ,ca usa Registered: Mar 2003
Whats your prices on the C4 upgrade kit with slotted and crossdrilled rotors? Looks like an awesome conversion. I'll need something like that when I get new rims for my 88 coupe!
------------------ James Essar 88 Coupe 3.2L V6 With NX Nitrous 60* V6 Power! Bring it V8's :watchout:
IP: Logged
12:00 AM
PFF
System Bot
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Whats your prices on the C4 upgrade kit with slotted and crossdrilled rotors? Looks like an awesome conversion. I'll need something like that when I get new rims for my 88 coupe!
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
IP: Logged
02:00 AM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
So why both? SC and Turbo? What's the reasoning and how much can you gain from a set-up such as this? How is it more efficient, then just a turbo, or just an SC?
IP: Logged
11:56 PM
Jul 31st, 2003
*cpt*seawolf Member
Posts: 134 From: Burlington, On, Canada Registered: Jan 2002
air at a given boost has the same oxygen... so if u run the turbo at 5..then the super at 10......how is that different thatn running jsut the super at 10. its not like magicly 10 psi can hold more oxygen...air is approx 20% O2....doesnt matter if its compressed or not....if its compressed u jsut get more VOLUME of air into the engine thus more O2. Nitrous actually ADDS O2.
i think this project is more of "because i can" than "because its better"
Plus there is no intercooler..that air is gonna be dam hot after 2 compressions
If I remember correctly, Eric was the one doing the updates. I think he had a falling out with the shop. You might have to call the shop to get updates. Maybe someone who knows them down at the shop could run over and get an update and post here.
IP: Logged
11:18 PM
Sep 5th, 2003
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Sry guys, no longer working for WCF - the only real way to have this thread updated is to bombard the shop ( WCF ) with emails requesting the present intel. All I know right now is that the car has been tuned ( I beleive ) and that it is under going it's last phases of paint and body treatment before hitting the show curcuit.
As far as the majority of folks out there asking why both, and claiming that one version of boost is better than the other - thats great, but our driving force to building this car was one simple question..... "Why Not"
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
IP: Logged
02:43 AM
Rare87GT Member
Posts: 5064 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Oct 2001
Sry guys, no longer working for WCF - the only real way to have this thread updated is to bombard the shop ( WCF ) with emails requesting the present intel. All I know right now is that the car has been tuned ( I beleive ) and that it is under going it's last phases of paint and body treatment before hitting the show curcuit.
As far as the majority of folks out there asking why both, and claiming that one version of boost is better than the other - thats great, but our driving force to building this car was one simple question..... "Why Not"
What happened with you at WCF? Why aren't ya workin there anymore?
------------------
Maroon 1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L Ferrari Red 1988 Formula 5 spd: 3800 Series II Supercharged In Progress.....
