quote Originally posted by Electrathon: I gave you a plus for that. I am amazed at the attitude of those that seem to think they have the right to offend others. I work in a shop enviroment too, I have always felt that those that constantly used foul language were simply demonstrating to others that they were to ignorant to master language properly.

Please allow me to correct your spelling and grammatical errors.

I am amazed at the attitude of those that seem to think they have the right to offend others. I work in a shop environment too, I have always felt that those who constantly use foul language were simply demonstrating to others that they are too ignorant to master the language properly

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 03-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: Please allow me to correct your spelling and grammatical errors.

Thank you. I have always been bad at spelling/grammer, even though I don't do it with intent. I would give you a plus for that too, but I gave you one a long time ago.

When I asked why people insist on censorship, I was aware that people have filters... however, if you are at a school, or work, DO YOUR WORK!!! Get off the computer, or off the forum, and do what you are being paid/told to do. For those of you who this does not apply, and still have filters... I think that someone typing something like bad a$$ on this forum is the least of your worries. Words like that are such common place, and are even allowed on most TV stations in day time hours. To tell you the truth, I am not going to caution my typing, because someone has a filter blocking out 90% of the internet. There is a difference between family safe, and standing at the gates if front of St Peter polite.

As for young kids, like Jordan, seeing these words... sorry, but any word like bad a$$ you will see on daytime TV as well. If someone is going to be typing the F word on the forum, I don't think anyways will say that is right. But if you are seriously trying to shield your kid, or anyone else's kid from words like damn, a$$ or abbreviations... then you might as well lock them up in the basement right now. It isn't people typing ont eh forum words like that that are the problem, it is the lack of parenting, teaching the kids not to repeat the words. When I was that age, I didn't say those words at all, because it was instilled in my by my parents... I have 3 older brothers, I was around those words CONSTANTLY.. but I didn't use them, and they didn't hurt me.

The point is, people are so sensitive for no reason at all. How is a word going to hurt anyone... it is the context of the statement, not the words being used.

summary, in case you dont want to waste your time reading my post:
respect other people and their morals. its not that hard.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: Please allow me to correct your spelling and grammatical errors. I am amazed at the attitude of those that seem to think they have the right to offend others. I work in a shop environment too, I have always felt that those who constantly use foul language were simply demonstrating to others that they are too ignorant to master the language properly

im not trying to pull a negative from anyone here, but i just wanted to note that a few errors you "corrected" in his post were actually correct to begin with, and you also missed a few others that should have been corrected in his post. i am a grammar freak as it is, although there are times when i couldnt care less of it.
my solution is to use a newer word-processing program such as "word2000" if you happen to be one of those with lesser grammatical abilites or even just spelling problems. its not too hard to type your reply there first and then transfer it over to here.

as far as the topic itself goes, i dont care to see any cursing on this site because i get enough of it at my high school. im not inclined to enjoying the use of innappropriate words. sure, some might not mind them, but that doesnt mean that everybody doesnt mind them! case in point to the extreme example would be that of the middle eastern communities that believe in holy wars. to them it is correct and completely permissable, but to me it is ridiculous and insane! one must remember that most of these things are relative from person to person as we all have different levels of morality, and we should do our best to cooperate with each other's desires. its not too hard.

last off, being a highschool student, i browse the web in a few of my classes occassionally and would also like to note the fact that it is completely permissable for me to do so by my teachers; however, i do not enjoy seeing certain images or language used if in any case my teacher were to see it as well. im sure they would not appreciate it.

*note: this post was not intended to flame, nor was it intended to be flamed

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joeschmotty
red '86 gt

[This message has been edited by joeschmotty (edited 03-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by joeschmotty: so if it is all a matter of context and not actual word usage, then why use the word that could offend someone else instead of a word that wouldnt? surely its not a matter of a small vocabulary since the person isnt ignorant. does a "bad word" have any more emphasis to it then please and thank you? i find these "bad words" are used just as much as please and thank you, if not more, in my social environment - that being one of a highschool.

I didnt say it was all context, but as far as how appropriate a word is, context will have the major affect. A "bad word" is probably used even more commonly now-a-days than Please and Thank You. My point stood, and still stands, that if I type WTF (actually WTF not what the ****), it is no more negatively affecting than someone saying please or thank you just because it is "the right thing to say". I tried to keep it simple without getting into the fact that people view words in such manners not because it really "hurts" then or "offends" them, it is because that is how they were brought up, or that what society or parents instilled in them. If I type a bad word on here, and an adult reads it, and is seriously offended by it, scard by it, then that person should never turn a TV, never walk outside in a larger city, and would be better off to crawl right back through the birth canal. And I definately agree with you about highschool. I am only 19 myself, and recently out of highschool, but I don't think the fact that the younger generations swears more has any bearing on my opinion. (I know you didn't imply that, I just wanted to state it) Even if people my age didn't use these words as often as they do, and they werent such common-place. I would still have my same opinion, to me it is childish to be offended by these words. Maybe who ever was instilling these strong morals, should have also tought people how not to take things so seriously all the time, and to understand, that the world is not all daiseys and lollipops. If someone gives me the finger in traffic, I laugh, I don't gasp and say "Well I never...."

quote Originally posted by joeschmotty: would it then be a matter of being too immature to use a choice of wording that would respect someone else or are they just too lazy and uncaring?

Yes and no... If it is just normal day conversation, then I would agree, it is just lack of caring that someone would use a "bad word". But it is not immature in any way. It is a two-way street. I may be not considerate when I type a word that may offend someone, but that is because I shouldn't have to double check everything I type, just because someone is far to sensitive for anyone's good. If I am having a conversation on the forum with someone I know through posts, and he says something some what retarded as a joke, and I call him an idiot, or a dumba$$, he knows it is in good fun, anyone would know that it is in good fun, I am nto being rude. And to me, that word is still keeping this place safe for a family. I hear that word every day on TV, and on CTV here in Canada, you can hear it about 20 times every sunday just from one syndicated TV show.

[This message has been edited by soup (edited 03-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by soup: Yes and no... If it is just normal day conversation, then I would agree, it is just lack of caring that someone would use a "bad word". But it is not immature in any way.

What you don't seem to grasp is immature is not age it is a state of mind. I know immature people twice your age. With your theory society will sink to the lowest common denominator. I choose not to sink with you.

quote Originally posted by skitime: What you don't seem to grasp is immature is not age it is a state of mind. I know immature people twice your age. With your theory society will sink to the lowest common denominator. I choose not to sink with you.

I am not sure how you got that I meant maturity has to do with age from that, that is not what I think. I do believe society is sinking, but I in no way am sitting by watching the life boats drift away. I am sorry that that is what you got out of what I said, it was the furthest thing from what I was trying to point out.

Sorry Electrathon for singling you out.
I work in a shop environment AND I use profanity all day.
I felt your statement was a personal attack and I was defending myself.

So do I curse in my real life? Yes.
Do I do it here? Not very often.

Some social settings find it unacceptable.

I have a story.

Once when I was working at a parts store.
I was assisting a woman.
There was name brand and a generic level of the same part.
She asked what would cause such a difference in price.
I said something like, “this one is good and the other one sucks”
Her response was, “it what?”
“it sucks”
She was still looking at me with a deer in the headlights look.
With an exasperated sigh I explained, “when compared to the name brand it’s an inferior product”

Some time the next day the manager told me that she had called in to complain about my swearing. We both had a good laugh about it.

I feel in that context it is acceptable to make that statement. But I probably wouldn’t use that word openly in the same sentence with the word “donkey” and a metaphor for genitalia.

quote Originally posted by unknown: It just seems strange to me when people know that what they say on the forum causes trouble for others, from being asked by Cliff not to do it to others not even being allowed to sign on. The attitude of those doing it seems to be that they do not care about anyone other than themselves. Self government without self disapline is destined for failure. .

I already said that I seldom use fowl language on the forum. I know that I have never typed “f***” “s***” or “c***” but I have used :WTF: I’ve typed “that’s F’in great” and “sucks” in my posts.

I never knew that me using these words or even the letters WTF would cause a problem for viewing the thread. It was not that I didn’t care, it was that I didn’t know.
Now that I have been educated I will try to avoid these things.

I do not knowingly cuss in front of strangers.

Once the door between the service drive and the service bays was left open. I said some really vulgar stuff to the porter. There was a woman on the drive. I don’t know if she heard me. But the tech closest to the door made eye contact with me, and I knew there was a civilian within earshot.

I’m really going to have to get my girlfriend to chime in on this thread. She has some stories about a very high up supervisor in the government that cusses constantly.

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Buddy - there are two "G"s in my name
Ling = 84SE-350-N2O-Poly-Mr.Mike seats-Sequential turn signals-short shifter
Julia C = 85GT stock (kinda)
KCFOG

I can understand both sides to this argument, but I think what it really comes down to is consideration.

just wanted to note that i read and appreciate responses to my post, mainly by soup. my bad if i misunderstood things in your first few posts. your explanations were well stated in your latter posts. although i agree with some things you said, i disagree with others but have come to the conclusion that we see mostly eye to eye on this subject and that would be one of respecting others while learning to be more tolerant ourselves.

thats all for me here.

Ditto JoeSchmotty

My reason for debating this wasnt near as much because I felt so strongly about it, as it was that I just wanted people to realise it is a two way street. Like has been stated many times, I don't think anyone would say it is ok to be typing stuff that is derogatory to other people, but for people who use langauge that isn't necessarily bad, but is questionable.... They should not have to watch what they say any more than someone typing something like a prayer in a post. What may offend some, and seem completely normal, and in moral borders, may seem "ignorant", or "immature" to someone else.

Even though this thread was meant to just mention the fact that some things are blocked by filters.... meh, wrf (with a frick) its fun to argue

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: I’m glad to know how you feel about me. I have worked in the automotive or motorcycle repair industry most of my life. Repair shops, machine shops, parts stores, dealerships. And profanity is completely acceptable in normal conversation amongst ourselves. The only time it becomes an issue is if there are customers present, or if it’s said in anger.

Yeah, I've worked in garages, roofing, cleaning crews, retail of all types. Some have been full of foul-mouthed folk who 'straighten up' when customers/boss/bosses' wife/mom/kids show up. The people I respect most are consistent in their behavior, not putting on a false face for different people. It makes them trustworthy in my eyes. Again, I'm trying to judge anyone but trying to express a common observation - it's not a bias.

Before anyone thinks I'm after Buddycraigg because of his response (it's not unique to him I'm sure!) I'd like to say I have read many of his posts and he is obviously a very intelligent Fierophile with a mind similar to mine...frugal, practical and creative.... why I like the Fiero!

Thanks!

<edited> to put the two 'g's in Buddycraiggs' name. I get mine mangled enough, don't want to do it to others..

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 03-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by litespd: What truly amazes me is the number of people who surf this forum while at work or school. Aren't you supposed to be working, instead of perusing this forum for personal business? If you're worried that something you see here might cause you trouble while viewing it at work...DON'T VIEW IT AT WORK. Wait until you're at home, and view it on your own time...on your own computer..where you can't get in trouble for something someone might have posted. I agree that we should all watch what we post. But I find it truly amusing that someone would ask you to watch what you say so that they don't have to worry about filtering software on computers AT WORK causing them not to be able to view a particular thread. We have computers where I work. We have internet access. The regular employees are not even allowed to USE the computers, let alone access the Internet, or Pennock's, on company time. Sheesh....

Well, in my case I work on computers all day long at a school. I may have one sitting right next to me as I am working on another one. As the software loads, reloads, downloads, upgrades or whatever I may choose to surf Pennocks on the other computer instead of mindlessly staring at a percentage bar on the computer loading a program.
Like most other employees at jobs I get breaks, lunches and so forth which also allow me a few minutes here and there to surf the web if I choose. I like being able to surf Pennocks off and on thru out the day because when I get home I don't want to spend all of that time before bed trying to keep up on whats been going on during the last 8 hours or more. I also get in a bit early more days than not and will spend a few minutes sometimes surfing Pennocks. But I am still at school usually with kids and other staff around me, so it is important that the content that I am viewing on or off the clock be somewhat work/school friendly.
I am sure that others have similar examples as to why they are surfing on the web at any given time while at work or school.
I guess you must have no family, no Fiero projects and so no life to be able to get home from a long day at work and be able to sit down and do nothing else but surf the web and check out Pennocks for awhile.

If you or anyone else choose to throw common sense out the window and want to post vulgar or inapropriate language/images on a "public" forum, please choose another forum that more fits in with your views and feelings as this is just not the place for it.

Steve

quote Originally posted by soup: People who curse are ignorant? Do you know the meaning of the word? Sorry, that sentence is ignorant, not to mention naive. Since when does being educated, or ungrateful have anything to do with language choice? I have a friend who just received a PHD in chem, and is thinking of putting that on teh shelf, going back, and applying for med school to get into pediatrics. (yeah i know, wasted education and money... rich family) He swears more than anyone I know, and invents words that would prolly make a nun cry. Please and Thank you still work for people who accept Please and Thank You as such an important tool in getting something done. To me, that is even more ignorant. Please and Thank You have become so over used, and in a lot of cases, have lost all meaning. When someone is getting paid to put your groceries in a bag, you say thank you, when someone gives you a kidney, you say thank you. What is the difference between these two? What seperates them? Context... that is all, just as in using a so-called "bad word" It isnt the word that has all the meaning, it is more the context in which the word is being used.

Wow, you actually nailed a really good point. So many people curse without purpose, and many say please and thank you without being sincere. It's phony and again I say ignorant, and diminishes someones' opinion of another. My grandpa a railroad engineer back in the 20-40's was quoted as saying 'Booklearnin' ain't worth a damn.' Yeah, I posted a curse word. Big 'ol hypocritical me. It's a quote. Get over it. My mom, his daughter - has a doctorate. I was raised with the idea of common courtesy. My dad was from the northwest where apparently sincerity was valued. beyond the cultural clash of a southern belle and a northwestern no-nonsense I've come to realize what comes out of your mouth identifies your true personality. Not all the 'booklearnin'. I've met many educated people who came across as total idiots not because of the two-bit word they used but their own puffed up opinion of themselves. I've actually engaged in converstaions where I can repeat back their own words, phrases and concepts verbatim and they will refute them.

So it's not just profanity, it's sincerity. Which speaks to a persons' conviction of belief in what they say. I don't get to hang out with you guys except here. Soup, you have said some very funny and entertaining things. i get a laugh out of some of your posts. And you have opsted some very useful info to me. And I do belive everyones' entitled to their opinion. Not slammin anyone here.

I'll get off my soapbox now, thanks!

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 03-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Well, in my case I work on computers all day long at a school. I may have one sitting right next to me as I am working on another one. As the software loads, reloads, downloads, upgrades or whatever I may choose to surf Pennocks on the other computer instead of mindlessly staring at a percentage bar on the computer loading a program.

And does your employer...the school system...know that you're surfing the web for personal use? If so, then lucky you. I'll bet it's not in your job description, and you're not being paid to do it...so it must be a "perk" of the job.

quote Like most other employees at jobs I get breaks, lunches and so forth which also allow me a few minutes here and there to surf the web if I choose. I like being able to surf Pennocks off and on thru out the day because when I get home I don't want to spend all of that time before bed trying to keep up on whats been going on during the last 8 hours or more. I also get in a bit early more days than not and will spend a few minutes sometimes surfing Pennocks. But I am still at school usually with kids and other staff around me, so it is important that the content that I am viewing on or off the clock be somewhat work/school friendly.

So, then, if you find that the content of Pennock's is less than perfect for the school kids....then perhaps you should rethink looking at it while you're at work. You wouldn't visit a p@rn site while you were working...if you feel Pennock's is not quite up to an acceptable level, then wouldn't it just make sense that you not visit it during those same hours you are around school kids?

quote I am sure that others have similar examples as to why they are surfing on the web at any given time while at work or school. I guess you must have no family, no Fiero projects and so no life to be able to get home from a long day at work and be able to sit down and do nothing else but surf the web and check out Pennocks for awhile.

On the contrary. I have a family. I have Fiero projects. And, I have a life. I'm also a taxpayer, although not in your state, and as a taxpayer, I want to know that the people that are working for me ARE working, and not doing personal things during their work hours. I am also a Federal Employee, and I am NOT allowed to use the work computers for personal web surfing. I COULD lose my job over it. So I don't. I have no problems with people browsing the forum on their breaks, etc. However, as before...if you think the content might not be acceptable for the people around you, then perhaps you should rethink what you're looking at while at work. This is an open forum, and as such, things of a questionable nature can, and most likely WILL be posted here. To try and stop it would be trying to censor it...and so far, Cliff hasn't seen the need to do so.

quote If you or anyone else choose to throw common sense out the window and want to post vulgar or inapropriate language/images on a "public" forum, please choose another forum that more fits in with your views and feelings as this is just not the place for it. Steve

Please show me where I said that vulgar or inappropriate language/images SHOULD be posted here. I totally agree...it shouldn't. All I said was, if you're viewing the forum at work, and you think that the information/headers/subject may be inappropriate, maybe you should rethink what you're looking at while you're there. You ARE at work, and I highly doubt, except for a few cases that HAVE been listed above, that your employer is paying you to surf the web, at least, for personal use. I'm a 47 year old man, with a wife, and two grown children...and although I might not like some of what I read here, I accept that it's going to happen, and if I find it offensive, then I don't read that particular thread anymore. It's the nature of the beast...you bring 8000 people together, you're bound to run into things that offend you. To think that you can stop it is a bit ridiculous, so you need to either accept what is, or, to use your own words, "choose another forum that more fits in with your views and feelings as this is just not the place for it." Yes, it's a sad commentary on our society, that this is how things are...but it IS the way they are. You learn to adapt.

As for attacking my personal life...I could also make a comment about certain things you've done in the past, of which I have knowledge...but I choose not to.

[This message has been edited by litespd (edited 03-29-2004).]

I was going to leave Steve's post alone in hope that you would come and respond to it... and... well... respond you did!

I couldnt have responded better myself. But I want to add this.

Steve, what litespd had said before, was in no way an attack at you. In reality, whether or not you are viewing it at work, or if your boss cares or not, it isn't an attack at you. What you responded with however, was an attack at him. So how dare you come on here, and complain about the content of some posts, and mention that you don't want Jordan reading some of these things, then go and deliberately attack someone???? What is worse, someone typing a questionable word that Jordan will be hearing no matter what he does in his life, and parenting him to know when these words are appropriate or not, or having Jordan read a post where his father attacks someone for politely speaking his mind. Sorry if I am crossing a line here man, but I think you need to rethink what you typed. I am not trying to single you out, or question your parenting at all. I know this could be easily be taken as though I am, but I am not trying to be rude. I am not trying to sound holier than though either, but I think this further demonstrates my point.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: Wow, you actually nailed a really good point. So many people curse without purpose, and many say plaese and thank you without being sincere. It's phony and again I say ignorant, and diminishes someones' opinion of another. My grandpa a railroad engineer back in the 20-40's was quoted as saying 'Booklearnin' ain't worth a damn.' Yeah, I posted a curse word. Big 'ol hypocritical me. It's a quote. Get over it. My mom, his daughter - has a doctorate. I was raised with the idea of common courtesy. My dad was from the northwest where apparently sincerity was valued. beyond the cultural clash of a southern belle and a northwestern no-nonsense I've come to realize what comes out of your mouth identifies your true personality. Not all the 'booklearnin'. I've met many educated people who came across as total idiots not because of the two-bit word they used but their own puffed up opinion of themselves. I've actually engaged in converstaions where I can repeat back their own words, phrases and concepts verbatim and they will refute them. So it's not just profanity, it's sincerity. Which speaks to a persons' conviction of belief in what they say. I don't get to hang out with you guys except here. Soup, you have said some very funny and entertaining things. i get a laugh out of some of your posts. And you have opsted some very useful info to me. And I do belive everyones' entitled to their opinion. Not slammin anyone here. I'll get off my soapbox now, thanks!

It is good to know somone appreciates my completely retarded sense of humor!

Your grandpa was a wise man.

edited because I actually re-read a post for once, and noticed retaded doesnt have a two t's in it... maybe I should reread all posts before submiting them....

[This message has been edited by soup (edited 03-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by soup: edited because I actually re-read a post for once, and noticed retaded doesnt have a two t's in it... maybe I should reread all posts before submiting them....

LOL...but remember, it DOES have two r's in it. Sorry...I couldn't pass that one up!

(edited to hope that you'll appreciate MY sense of humor...)

[This message has been edited by AndyLPhoto (edited 03-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: LOL...but remember, it DOES have two r's in it. Sorry...I couldn't pass that one up! (edited to hope that you'll appreciate MY sense of humor...)

lol... SHUT UP!