Damn man... is all that goin in the black car or did you get another fiero? You'll have to let me know when you get all that finished so i can check it out.. heh..
What engine is that? 400 SBC? How much horsepower it pushin?
If I ever get my grand am sold i'm hopin to start up my V8 project.. hopefully soon... lol...
anywayz...
looks badass...
-Daniel
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08:35 PM
GMGW3 Member
Posts: 471 From: West Allis, WI Registered: Dec 2001
I've got one question ? Are you out of your mind ?
I lied : Second question ? Are you gonna drive this Fiero on the street ?
Third question ? What kind of tranny/rear end are you going to hook this beast up to ?
Fourth question ? Is the engine going to be mounted " Mid-Engined " ?
Fifth question ? Will there be a direct hook up " Face Mask " for the driver off the NOS bottle ?
Gave you a positive rateing , for testicular tissue .
Looking forward to seeing you post the progress of your project .
Galen Smith Red '85 Sport Coupe Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club Florida Fiero Council
1. yes, certifiable. have the papers to prove it. 2. yes, will still be a "street car". 3/4. th425 in reverse (very midengine) rotation. 3.70 final drive ratio. 5. no not directly, it will first go to the crack pipe then to the face mask.
Cardealer, where did you get 3.70:1 ratio gears for that differential? AFAIK the only ratios that were available were 2.73:1 and 3.07:1. What vehicle and what year did that diff come off of? Tony
Cardealer, where did you get 3.70:1 ratio gears for that differential? AFAIK the only ratios that were available were 2.73:1 and 3.07:1. What vehicle and what year did that diff come off of? Tony
80sboy - that electric water pump isnt good for normal street use. i only used it for dyno time.
tony - a place in california makes them in 3.50 and a 3.70. they are $1360.00 plus a $200.00 core deposit. there is a other way that you can get about the same gearing by changing the chain drive, but it makes the tranny work harder and not as fuctional. are you still doing the adapter plate thing to get the reverse rotation?
i should have a much easier way for the reverse rotation method, but i am still working out the details. here is a pic of the engine with the th425 trans together for measuring for the custome oilpan. i hope to have the oilpan finished and a little welding on the cradle this weekend.
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02:33 PM
TONY_C Member
Posts: 2747 From: North Bellmore, NY 11710 Registered: May 2001
[b] tony - a place in california makes them in 3.50 and a 3.70. they are $1360.00 plus a $200.00 core deposit. there is a other way that you can get about the same gearing by changing the chain drive, but it makes the tranny work harder and not as fuctional. are you still doing the adapter plate thing to get the reverse rotation? i should have a much easier way for the reverse rotation method, but i am still working out the details. [b]
Car dealer, I have heard about the chain ratio but I didn't want to go through that. Yes, I have the adapter plate all done. What is going to be your method for reversing the diff?
1. Which torque convertor/stall convertor ? 2. What is the part # for the adaptor ? 3. What axles are you going to use ? 4. Who is fabricating the oil pan and will the SBC 4x4 S-10 conversion oil pan work ? 5. How hard is it to connect the tranny linkage ? 6. What about existing electrical sensors from the tranny ? 7. Did you use designs from the Associated Auto CD-ROM instructions or did you make your own design ?
Sorry for all the ?'s but I'm just getting started on mine. I am very impressed with your progress and hope the best !!
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03:03 PM
TONY_C Member
Posts: 2747 From: North Bellmore, NY 11710 Registered: May 2001
1. Which torque convertor/stall convertor ? 2. What is the part # for the adaptor ? 3. What axles are you going to use ? 4. Who is fabricating the oil pan and will the SBC 4x4 S-10 conversion oil pan work ? 5. How hard is it to connect the tranny linkage ? 6. What about existing electrical sensors from the tranny ? 7. Did you use designs from the Associated Auto CD-ROM instructions or did you make your own design ?
Sorry for all the ?'s but I'm just getting started on mine. I am very impressed with your progress and hope the best !!
I think this was meant for cardealer but I can answer a few of these.
1. Converter stall depends on the engine being used, the TH425 converter mates to a sbc flex plate. 2. TCI makes an adapter to mate sbc to bop trannies, about $55 at jegs or summit. 3. I am making adapters for Fiero axles, it will require modifications to the tri-pot though. 4. Oil pan from S-10 won't work I don't think, I am planning on using a Moroso pan from a ChevyII with some modifications. 5. Tranny linkage connects but the shifter plate inside the interior has to be modified because the gates in the shifter do have the same travel between detents as the TH425. 6. The TH-425 has an electrical kick-down which is just a switch mounted on the throttle linkage, the speedo needs a conversion to work in the Fiero dashboard, http://www.jagsthatrun.com makes one. Hope this helps and hope I didn't hijack the thread. Tony
CARDEALER, a couple of questions about the pics you posted.... 1. Why the fuel cell? Did you need the tunnel for some other reason so you had to get rid of the stock tank? I am just thinking about safety and how the cell will be in front like that. 2. Same with the nitrous, while not flammable, it does support combustion and at the very least if it leaks it will stink of sulphur. just some observations, not meant to criticize the work you have done. (which looks very nice by the way) Tony
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04:34 PM
PFF
System Bot
blakeinspace Member
Posts: 5923 From: Fort Worth, Texas Registered: Dec 2001
CARDEALER, a couple of questions about the pics you posted.... 1. Why the fuel cell? Did you need the tunnel for some other reason so you had to get rid of the stock tank? I am just thinking about safety and how the cell will be in front like that. 2. Same with the nitrous, while not flammable, it does support combustion and at the very least if it leaks it will stink of sulphur. just some observations, not meant to criticize the work you have done. (which looks very nice by the way) Tony
1. the fuel cell is ment to offset some gained weight to the front from the th425, plus gain an extra 2 gallons. safty wise... i feel that its pretty safe being that is now feet away from instead of inches. 2. when i have my bottle filled it contains no sulphur in it. generally when you first get your bottle from the manufacture it contains the sulphur. the console still sits on top and were the gas tank once was and is now a great wind tunnel blow into/onto the engine. so if any fumes are present they will be passed back to the engine compartment. thanks!
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06:50 PM
cardealer Member
Posts: 511 From: austin tx usa Registered: Jan 2001
1. Which torque convertor/stall convertor ? 2. What is the part # for the adaptor ? 3. What axles are you going to use ? 4. Who is fabricating the oil pan and will the SBC 4x4 S-10 conversion oil pan work ? 5. How hard is it to connect the tranny linkage ? 6. What about existing electrical sensors from the tranny ? 7. Did you use designs from the Associated Auto CD-ROM instructions or did you make your own design ?
Sorry for all the ?'s but I'm just getting started on mine. I am very impressed with your progress and hope the best !!
1. b&m #130-20412 from the "coughlins" 2. #555-60170 ($55.00) " " 3. custom (locally done) 4. me cut & weld the old pan, doubt the s10 pan is shallow enough in the output shaft area. 5. not sure yet, i am useing a "b&m quicksilver". i doubt it will be that hard. 6. electical sensors = GONE, i will be running a 3 3/8, 160mph, mechanical autometer speedo.(1054493coughlins) 7. my own design. although the reversed rotation opens a few hurdles, its a lot less to do to the cradle. it fits very nice backards, standard position... forget it, unless you are building a wheelie car!!!!!
oh by the way "coughlins" = jegs, you spend as much money with jegs as i have, you can call them by their last name..........
Well Tony, I am planning on going with the traditional setup not using reverse rotation. Pulleys will be to the front similar to the setup on Rockcrawl's website but with better jigging. I must say you have me concerned now. I do not have the time or resources to perform the magic presented here before us. I can only hope for a clean setup. I was tooling around with the idea of a B+M 6-71 or 9-71 but I don't know if I will have the pulley space that I need. If I can find a short nosed screw type I will probably go for it and redo the short block I have now. Should only take an hour or two to get it in there straight, right ? LOL......
Seriously.....nice job Tony. Let me know when you wanna run for the #1 Street King spot. I got 5 GRAND on you !! LOL.......
7. my own design. although the reversed rotation opens a few hurdles, its a lot less to do to the cradle. it fits very nice backards, standard position... forget it, unless you are building a wheelie car!!!!!
Absolutely correct. The engine/transmission fits in very well when reverse mounted, just needs a little "massaging" of the firewall. Not much weight at all is behind the wheels. 80'sboy you should reconsider using the forward setup.
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08:36 AM
perkidelic Member
Posts: 772 From: Masury Ohio USA Registered: Aug 2002
I'm like 80's Boy in that I was planning a conventional swap, but you two have me thinking hard about this reversed deal now.
Tony_C when we talked about it before you mentioned some modifications that are necessary inside the tranny, in addition to the adapter plate to flip the diff. Can either of you guys shed a little more light on this?
Also, outside of the BOP/Chevy engine plate, what else did you have to buy? I know an oil pan must be modded, and axles, but what parts had to be purchased, and what labor had to be farmed out to more experienced professionals?
I am going with a TH325, so I know there will be differences; but I am a fabricator by trade so most of what you have described is right up my alley.
Well Tony, I am planning on going with the traditional setup not using reverse rotation. Pulleys will be to the front similar to the setup on Rockcrawl's website but with better jigging. I must say you have me concerned now. I do not have the time or resources to perform the magic presented here before us. I can only hope for a clean setup. I was tooling around with the idea of a B+M 6-71 or 9-71 but I don't know if I will have the pulley space that I need. If I can find a short nosed screw type I will probably go for it and redo the short block I have now. Should only take an hour or two to get it in there straight, right ? LOL......
Seriously.....nice job Tony. Let me know when you wanna run for the #1 Street King spot. I got 5 GRAND on you !! LOL.......
all along i have keep telling you.. "hold on, wait a little more". there is a very good reason for this, trust me! i am in the final production stage of making the reversed rotation system so simple. i am waiting on a few custom manufactured pieces and finish the install for the testing of this product. with everything i want to do now, (adding more everyday) & delays in waiting for my transmission parts, & alot of r&d, i am now behind schedule. i need hopefully, 30 more days for completion.
here is a little advice - 1. beg, steal, borrow, whatever, and get you a "real good" engine. talk of blowers and nitrous and all the goodies, dont mean $hit unless your engine can hold it. we know now that you can put almost anything to that th425 without worry so just get a strong engine.
2. forget the front foward mounting its requires way to much work on the cradle. and it just sits way too far back.
3. what are you waiting on???????
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10:06 AM
TONY_C Member
Posts: 2747 From: North Bellmore, NY 11710 Registered: May 2001
I'm like 80's Boy in that I was planning a conventional swap, but you two have me thinking hard about this reversed deal now.
Tony_C when we talked about it before you mentioned some modifications that are necessary inside the tranny, in addition to the adapter plate to flip the diff. Can either of you guys shed a little more light on this?
Also, outside of the BOP/Chevy engine plate, what else did you have to buy? I know an oil pan must be modded, and axles, but what parts had to be purchased, and what labor had to be farmed out to more experienced professionals?
I am going with a TH325, so I know there will be differences; but I am a fabricator by trade so most of what you have described is right up my alley.
[This message has been edited by perkidelic (edited 06-18-2003).]
Perk, What I had to do may only pertain to the TH425 diff. One side of the diff has a hub secured by a long bolt which attaches to a retainer plate pressed into the outboard side gear. the other side of the diff (the side next to the oil pan) is where the extension shaft connects via the spline on the inboard side gear. this is not attached via a bolt because the extension shaft has a flange on the end that is bolted to the side of the engine. Now, when you flip the diff 180 degrees, there is nothing to hold the outboard axle in place because the retaining plate which is on the outboard side gear is now inboard. Hope you are still with me. The solution is to take apart the diff and make another retaining plate and press it into what is now the outboard side gear. then get another short output shaft like the one that is now on the inboard side, machine the diameter to match the long shaft that bolts to the engine and bolt it together. I made the new retaining plate myself and turned the short shaft too. Now when the diff is reversed, the outboard side will be further out than before so the shaft which passes under the pan will not reach the diff nor will it fit into the hole anyway. I used the wheel hub from an eldo or toronado of the same vintage. Take off the bearing and machine it so it fits into the inboard short axle, drill holes so you can bolt it together and the long axle spline fits right into it.
I think your th325 is different as I believe it uses retaining rings similar to late model axles so instead of a retaining plate you may need to have the side gear grooved to retain the stub axle. You may want to reconsider using the TH325, the TH425 is so much stronger, even the diff is much beefier, sort of like comparing a 10 bolt rear to a 12 bolt rear. In fact, I believe the TH425 diff has gears the same dimensions as a 12 bolt. Plus the TH425 has an electric kickdown which makes hook up somewhat easier and doesn't rely on engine vacuum.
Cardealer, I am anxious to hear your solution to the reverse diff, from what you have said, and it IS vague...lol...it seems you have found a different approach. I am curious to hear what that may be.
[This message has been edited by TONY_C (edited 06-18-2003).]
[This message has been edited by TONY_C (edited 06-18-2003).]
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10:27 AM
PFF
System Bot
perkidelic Member
Posts: 772 From: Masury Ohio USA Registered: Aug 2002
It sure would be interesting if you weighed the engine/cradle/transmission assembly. My neighbor has a 78? Tornado that's been sitting in his driveway for at least 15 years. I've considered buying it. I think it has only 65,000 miles on it.
Robert
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11:08 AM
cardealer Member
Posts: 511 From: austin tx usa Registered: Jan 2001
It sure would be interesting if you weighed the engine/cradle/transmission assembly. My neighbor has a 78? Tornado that's been sitting in his driveway for at least 15 years. I've considered buying it. I think it has only 65,000 miles on it.
Robert
my th425 "loaded" (brackets,converter,fluids,final-drive, output-shafts,ect) was 253lbs. havnt weighed the engine w/ the trans yet, but i did weigh the car before i started with this swap. with the transverse v8 and fully "loaded" was 2860lbs. i will after this swap is finished i will weigh again to see how much i gained. if you can get toro cheap enough, get it!
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02:15 PM
TONY_C Member
Posts: 2747 From: North Bellmore, NY 11710 Registered: May 2001
It sure would be interesting if you weighed the engine/cradle/transmission assembly. My neighbor has a 78? Tornado that's been sitting in his driveway for at least 15 years. I've considered buying it. I think it has only 65,000 miles on it.
Robert
Definately grab it if the price is right. Those cars are worth big bucks parted out and those trannies are hard to find. If you don't believe me look in Hemmings motor News. I'm in NY and i had to get my TH425 from a guy in Oklahoma. shipping was almost as much as the transmission.
Tony, if you indeed are planning on selling some sort of "kit" than put me 1st on the list of buyers. NO BS !! I have too much time invested into this car to toss the project at this point. Save the first set for me and my TH425.
P.S.- please contact me about the TH125 I bought from you awhile back. I have a potential buyer and I can't remember all the specs.
squirrellsack@yahoo.com
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10:44 PM
Jun 19th, 2003
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
keep us poated
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