Hey Scott; Glad to hear you got it running. did you miss my post back on the 19th where I mentioned the oil press sender? Once againglad you got it running. HIP HIP HORAY!!! Joe

Congrats!!!

Fun, isn't it!

A quick observation...
It ought to run without the oil pressure switch circuit. There are two circuits that run the fuel pump. One is controlled by the oil pressure switch, and the other is controlled by the ECM.
I think the ECM circuit is based on the presence of pulses from the ignition system. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'm happy that you got it running. Especially since you didn't have to tear down the top end of the engine.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.
Read Nealz Nuze!

Fastback 86… CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

Your tenacity paid off, you never gave up, and you kicked ol’ Murphy in the butt and chassed him out of town. You are an inspiration and role model for us all.

Thanks for posting one of the most interesting threads i've read on the PFF. I’m so glad your quest had a happy ending.

Reno

(edited for spelling)

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'86 GT - "The Black Bomb" It'll sneek up on you.

[This message has been edited by Reno Scoopeno (edited 04-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Yeah, I know. The Oil Pressure Sender was the problem. That cracked sensor I pictured is the Coolant temp switch, which is somehow connected to the idle according to the manual, and what I believe may be causing the problem.

Just a heads up. On the Fiero the oil pressure switch only serves as a backup to the fuel pump relay. There is no ability for the ECM to know, or care, what the oil pressure is, and in a properly functioning system the ECM will keep the engine with no oil pressure running in all of its knocking glory. Here's a schematic:

As you can see, there's no connection between the switch and the ECM. If a bad pressure switch kept the engine from running then the root problem is the fuel pump relay or the ECM circuit feeding it, and that problem is what likely caused the oil pressure switch to fail in the first place.

I'm glad you got it running!

JazzMan

i feel a great weight has been lifted from me.And i don't have to drive all the way to Santa Cruz.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: i feel a great weight has been lifted from me.And i don't have to drive all the way to Santa Cruz.

LOL

LOL you're welcome Pokey. Still gotta get that high idle down. I get a new EGR gasket tomarrow and I think that'll make a big difference.

Jazz Mann; I think you've got it backwards. On starting the ecm energizes the relay turning on the fuel pump once oil press is achived the the circut is completed by the oil press sender. This is done so that if the engine stops running the fuel is shut off. If you've ever seen a car on fire w/ an aftermarket pump not wired this way you'll understand why this is done! Joe

GREAT NEWS!

I'm glad you got it running and I'm sorry I missed the fun. I've been working my butt off this week and it wobn't end until Friday. Just a word of caution, check the fuel pump relay. You might want to replace it. It is downstream of the oil Pressure sending unit and is the likely cause of the unit failing.

I put it on the "to do" list Todd!

I did get some stuff done today too. I burped the cooling system again cause it needed it. It was running hot yesterday when I was test driving it. With the system burped its staying down now, which is very relieving. I also found my electrical gremlin that was keeping my fog lights and manual radiator fan switch from working. Just a bad ground, so thats squared away now.

While I was in there burping it, I put my whole Accel Igniton back in there, since I paid good money for it and we know it wasn't the problem. Also took care of the exhaust leak where the rear manifold meets the Y pipe. I need to check the forward manifold/Y pipe connection tomarrow, I'm not convinced its sealed.

I checked out the EGR and I'm pretty sure its not cracked anywhere, but the gasket I knew was garbage. I reused the old one because the new one that came with the 2.8 rebuild gasket set was not the right gasket. I pulled the old one today and tried it bolted down without it and the idle was even higher (closing in on 3k!), so I'm pretty sure that gasket is a major culprit in the high idle problem. My favorite local parts store is getting a new gasket in tomarrow for me so I can take care of that.

Last of all, she finally got a bath today! Its been over a month since I last washer her and she looks beautiful now!

So are you gonna make it on sat

You bet I am! I get the new gasket today and I'm gonna pick up some heat tape and wrap that EGR tube up good! Hopefully that'll take care of the leak and get the idle down. No matter, I'll be there, high idle be damned!

Noooooooooooo!

uh oh

quote Originally posted by spddy: uh oh

i cant take this scott.To much stress.

better get somebody really smart about that stuff and see if it's amajor problem.Maybe you will be ok for the trip.Better find out for sure.

eventuallly it will take out your mains.

Word in TD&Q is that this is pretty NOT good. The mains and the motor mounts were pointed out as things that are gonna get hurt.

On the other hand, I drove it around with fierobear, I drove it a little bit yesterday, and I drove it today and other than the high idle it seems perfectly fine. Pretty smooth, even at the high idle and higher RPMs. I'm gonna call my mechanic today and ask him about it. Sooner or later its gotta come out and be done right. With any luck it will be ok for the run, but I'm worried now.

If you can get the dust shield off the bottom of the tranny, where it connects to the engine, you should be able to see if you have the weight or not. The weight is cast into the flywheel and is a raised semi-circular rectangular section, it is on the opposite side to where the clutch comes in contact. To reuse this flywheel, the weight should be ground flat with the rest of the flywheel. It shouldn't be too hard for you to drop the rear of the craddle, and pull the tranny back out of the way, to get access to the flywheel bolts. Don't forget to unbolt the slave cylinder this time.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 04-29-2004).]

Thanks avengador, but how do I get the tranny out of the way? Do I need to remove the half shafts and unbolt the mounts? Unbolt the engine mounts and move it? Do I remove the tranny competely?

Oh no!!! The saga continues!...

quote Originally posted by moto838: Jazz Mann; I think you've got it backwards. On starting the ecm energizes the relay turning on the fuel pump once oil press is achived the the circut is completed by the oil press sender. This is done so that if the engine stops running the fuel is shut off. If you've ever seen a car on fire w/ an aftermarket pump not wired this way you'll understand why this is done! Joe

Jazz is absolutely correct. The OP switch is just a backup for the relay - there is no safety circuit built into the Fiero. The car will run all day with the sender unplugged (provided the relay circuit is working correctly). Running the fuel pump on the OP sender will quickly burn out the sender. Then you're stuck.

Thanks for the tips on the electrical system guys. I'll check those things. As for the fllywheel, I need to figure out what the trick is for getting it out without dropping the entire engine. Gotta figure out how to get the transmission out of the way to get to it. And I'll need to borrow Brian's clutch alignment tool again to put it all back together. Looks like I'm gonna need some extra hands again.

bear, Toddster, Pokey, Brian...Who wants to donate one more afternoon to help me get it out, grind off the weight on the flywheel, and get it back in? I'd like to get someone experienced in there again for this one.

Heh, not long ago I was thinking I'd be ending this thread soon, once I got the high idle fixed. I've got the materials to take care of the probably cracked EGR already.

Big thanks to spddy for pointing out the EGR and for graciously offering a loaner Fiero for the Rally this weekend. Sucks I had to change my mind and turn it down.

Another big thanks to MarkJPana. He doesn't know it, but he saved my butt on this one. I totally and completely forgot about the flywheel till I saw his post in the Mall looking for an '88 flywheel or a 3.4 TDC flywheel. I would've gone on my merry way and torn up my new engine if I hadn't seen that post.

any idea on how much this swap cost you total.

np about the flywheel, better found out now than later

I don't know the exact numbers, but here's a guestimate:

Engine: $864
New Oil, additive, Coolant, and Hydraulic fluid: about $80
New plug wires I didn't need but are good to have around: $15
Misc. tools needed: $10
Gasket Set: $45 I think
New clutch line: $110
Aluminum Cradle Bushings: $100
Paint for engine: $15

Several things I borrowed that you may have to rent: Engine Hoist, Engine Stand, Harmonic Balancer Remover, Harmonic Balancer Installer, Impact Wrench, High Quality Torque Wrench.

And lets not forget all the man hours Toddster, fierobear, Brian, myself and Eric put in to this project. I'd hate to think what the labor cost might have been to have a shop or someone else do it.

Total, I'd say I kept it under $1500 by borrowing stuff and doing a large amount of the work myself and getting so much help from the forum and local people.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Thanks avengador, but how do I get the tranny out of the way? Do I need to remove the half shafts and unbolt the mounts? Unbolt the engine mounts and move it? Do I remove the tranny competely?

You'll need to pull the driver's side halfshaft out of the way, and you can pop the passenger side out.

Use the rear cradle bolts, like we did before, and see if that will allow you to guide the transmission back out of the way far enough to get the flywheel bolts out. Then remove the flywheel, have it ground down, and you should be good to go.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: ...I need to figure out what the trick is for getting it out without dropping the entire engine. Gotta figure out how to get the transmission out of the way to get to it...

Try this. From the Fiero Factory website. http://www.thefierofactory.com/88transaxle.htm

You could unbolt the top of the drivers side strut and the lower arm. Hang your brake caliper, drop the rear of the craddle and unbolt the tranny. This should give you enough room to slide the tranny out of the way. Don't forget the tranny mounts. You only need enough room to unbolt the flywheel and the pressure plate.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I don't know the exact numbers, but here's a guestimate: Engine: $864 New Oil, additive, Coolant, and Hydraulic fluid: about $80 New plug wires I didn't need but are good to have around: $15 Misc. tools needed: $10 Gasket Set: $45 I think New clutch line: $110 Aluminum Cradle Bushings: $100 Paint for engine: $15 Several things I borrowed that you may have to rent: Engine Hoist, Engine Stand, Harmonic Balancer Remover, Harmonic Balancer Installer, Impact Wrench, High Quality Torque Wrench. And lets not forget all the man hours Toddster, fierobear, Brian, myself and Eric put in to this project. I'd hate to think what the labor cost might have been to have a shop or someone else do it. Total, I'd say I kept it under $1500 by borrowing stuff and doing a large amount of the work myself and getting so much help from the forum and local people.

edit: reread the thread, 39K miles is good enough for me.

dang, thats alot, almost 900 for the engine?! i hope that was low mileage. i hope to keep mine under 800 (and then sell some stuff and get it lower, maybe 600) and that is with darrel morse's TB and plenum work, extra plenum, TB, middle intake, lower intake manifold, wiring harness (cause mine is crap) and the nessecary tools and stuff, guessing that the engine wil be around 400 dollars)

[This message has been edited by MarkJPana (edited 04-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: You could unbolt the top of the drivers side strut and the lower arm. Hang your brake caliper, drop the rear of the craddle and unbolt the tranny. This should give you enough room to slide the tranny out of the way. Don't forget the tranny mounts. You only need enough room to unbolt the flywheel and the pressure plate.

That's the ticket, except I'd add the rear cradle bolts to hang the tranny on. If they aren't long enough, try to get some longer ones from a hardware store. That way, you won't have to mess around too much with aligning the trans to get it back on. But, don't forget, you'll have to pull the pressure plate...again!

quote Originally posted by fierobear: That's the ticket, except I'd add the rear cradle bolts to hang the tranny on. If they aren't long enough, try to get some longer ones from a hardware store. That way, you won't have to mess around too much with aligning the trans to get it back on. But, don't forget, you'll have to pull the pressure plate...again!

Which is why I'll need Brian's Clutch Alignment tool...Again! Whats everybody doin next week?

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Which is why I'll need Brian's Clutch Alignment tool...Again! Whats everybody doin next week?

The stuff I wasn't doing while I was in Santa Cruz?

I have to change transmissions in my GT, and try to get back on Mary's car.

I'm coming down for dinner Saturday ght. I'll talk to you on SpinChat in a minute.

I got my 3.4L the same time you got your(we even talked in chat) I just read this thread tonight. You preaty much have shown what I have been doing(was a little daja-vu) But I am taking time to wait on powder coating. I hope mine starts. I will be posting a build up thread when I am done. But the best of luck to you. I have changed the clutch from the top on a duke engine, but never tried a V6.

Anyone have the #s the different cams put out?

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'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT 3.4L Swap in progress!!!!!!!!
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/
Rate me if I'm usefull

Don't forget to get the right flywheel or grind off the weight on the old one!

I don't have any numbers, but I've gathered so far that the cams don't make a huge difference. You can stick the 2.8 cam in there, or a Crane Cam, but its not a big improvement. Apparently, Crane only has 2 cams for it, one thats similar to the stock cam and one thats similar to the 2.8 cam. The 2.8 or similar Crane Cam will give you more low end power, but less top end power. The stock 3.4 cam and the similar Crane Cam give better mid to high range power without sacrifcing much in the low end. So its really up to you. I have heard that a different cam will give you a loopy idle, which in some states, like CA, will immediately fail you on smog.

Thanks for all the well wishing guys. Hopefully next week or weekend I can get in there and take care of that flywheel. I'm not looking forward to it, but destroying my main bearings sounds like a lot less fun. Hopefully I didn't do too much damage driving it around the other days. I think the total driving time was under an hour, so it shouldn't have beat them up too much.

My wife allready bought me an '88 flywheel for my birthday, so I dont't have to worry about the weights. But gotta go work on mine now. If I was closer I would be helping you too.

------------------
'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT 3.4L Swap in progress!!!!!!!!
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/
Rate me if I'm usefull

Ok, after talking to several people, it looks like just dropping the cradle again is going to be much easier to do and harder to screw up than tilting the cradle and what not to move the transmission out of the way. If nothing else, by dropping it I'll have MUCH more room to work. Probably save a lot of time and sanity that way. While I'm waiting to borrow the Engine hoist again I'm gonna start looking around at junk yards for a balanced flywheel and/or a shop that can machine mine down, or at least check it after I grind off the weight. I really don't want to pull it all again, but theres no alternative. No matter what I think after doing it once that it will be easier this time and definately easier than trying to get to it while its in the car.

So close and yet so far...

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I burn rice on the road, not in the engine.

just go to checker auto, its 'parts armerica' online, they are only $39.99 plus $35 core for an 88 flywheel. cheap. save yourself time and aggravation. (Yes they do have a $200 dollar one too, But who is dumb enough to pay that?(no offence to anyone who has))

------------------
'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT 3.4L Swap in progress!!!!!!!!
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/
Rate me if I'm usefull

Thats ok, its already taken care of.

BIG THANKS to AnimalGT who is going to trade me his 88 flywheel for my 86 flywheel.

Probably not much more news for a few days. Hopefully Reno's friend will get his engine swap in his Corvette done as fast as he thinks he will and I can get the hoist back tuesday. Hopefully now that I've already done it once, dropping the engine shouldn't take long. Then I just pull the engine away from the tranny like I did before (no need to mess with the suspension, axels, alignment, transmission, or anything else this way) and pull off the pressure plate, clutch and flywheel. As soon as Animal's gets here I'll take it out to get resurfaced.

This is also kind of a good thing. I seem to have a small oil leak coming from that side of the engine, so this will give me a chance to track it down. If its something bad like the rear main seal, this will be the perfect time to take care of it.

Putting it all back together is no biggie, just need an extra set of hands. Then we stick it back in the car, reconnect it, and I'm finally ready to rock and roll.

Thanks again for everyones help and support in this project.
Again, I'm happy to answer any more questions, give any more tips and/or tricks, etc.

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I burn rice on the road, not in the engine.

Hey, when do I get my Scorpion Survival Yo-Yo prize for being right that it was fueling?