For the record, I don't agree with you Donk, but you are entitled to your opinion. Off the record, do you have a death wish? I hope the red in your bar doesn't grow because of your opinion.
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08:40 PM
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Why is it that those with lots of red always feel the forum is broken, or that they're persecuted for speaking their mind?
Well its because of my opinions that the bar is red. i really hope something like this wont make people do the negative thing. Im not name calling or stirring the pot here. I just wanted some things off of my chest. The "ratings bar" is more a popularity contest then anything else.
If anything, some should reconsider the (+) they have left some on this thread as they have demonstrated that they are underserving.
------------------ Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta 1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA *ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE* http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information
[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 06-16-2004).]
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08:59 PM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11779 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
Well this isnt going very well... Cant anyone just state a few opinions and discuss them as opposed to calling me a "shaun lover" lmao! thats funny. After readin that link posted by Howard....it explains alot about the mentality behind the workings here and some old timers.
Well, I just find it funny you mention Shaun as a knowledgeable person who left, and not the dozens of knowledgeable people that left because of him.I just find it funny you blame him leaving on this forum and their people, and not on his behavior. I never said you are a "Shaun Lover". I just find it funny that whenever people are "bashing" the forum, his name pops up sooner or later.
Apparantly, some people (and I'm not directing this at you) can't live with the fact this forum even exists. I have no idea why. Some people just can't stand the fact that this is such a popular Fiero resource. Again, I'm clueless as to why. And honestly, someday they will get what they want. Because I'm getting really, really, really tired of the crap I have to put up with on a daily basis (again, this is not directed at you so please don't take that personal). As I said in another post, you have no idea. And I don't blame people for not knowing because only seldomly (like now) do I give a hint of what I have to put up with. The reason is because I don't want people's pity. I really hate the fact that whenever I voice my feelings, another "please support/donate to PFF" thread pops-up. Because that's not why I say what I say. Money has never been a reason to keep the forum open, or close it for that matter. All I ever wanted was to create a place where people could get the help they wanted, and where people would treat each other with respect. A place to discuss my and other people's passion: Fieros. Maybe the biggest mistake I ever made was to give this forum my name. Because with this (relative and unwanted) "fame", also comes a lot of crap. And nowadays, I indeed don't know if people are agreeing with me here because I am the moderator/administrator of "Pennock's" or because what I say makes sense to them. And vice versa. I don't know if some people are bashing this forum because they really think it stinks, or because it's "phat" and "l33t" to bash the big "Pennock's".
Apparanly, there's this group of people that love messing with this forum. I can only imagine the fun they must be having on my and the forum's expense. Well, they will be thrilled to hear it's having an effect. Yes, their actions upset me quite a bit. Yes, it does cost me valuable time each day to wade through the thousands of spam email finding the legit emails. Yes, I did have to close some of my email accounts. Yes, I am considering shutting it all down. Yes, I do mind when somebody uses my name to post crap on other forums/websites. So who knows. Maybe some day they will win. Not because I lose, but because I'm getting tired of the fight. It's strange that when you suddenly have your own family, how your priorities shift. All of a sudden, some things aren't worth fighting for anymore.
So for those people: next time you talk to each other, over the phone, through email or face-to-face, you can start gloating now and feel proud of yourself. You are winning the battle. Maybe some day, you can pride yourself as the ones who brought down the forum (and me). That must be quite an achievement for yourselves. Something to talk about for many years to come. Until you grow up. And I guarantee you, you won't feel so proud then anymore.
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09:07 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
Well its because of my opinions that the bar is red. i really hope something like this wont make people do the negative thing. Im not name calling or stirring the pot here. I just wanted some things off of my chest. The "ratings bar" is more a popularity contest then anything else.
If anything, some should reconsider the (+) they have left some on this thread as they have demonstrated that they are underserving.
I don't think people get red for their opinions. Well, at least they shouldn't. It's usually the attitude with which those opinions are expressed that causes people to hand out negs.
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09:18 PM
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Cliff, I dont have anything against you. Hell I dont even know you. If the forum was a faceless / nameless entity then thats how it would be addressed. I would consider it a great loss if the forum was 'unplugged'. no doubt so would everyone else. I am not familiar with the struggles you have mentioned but, I mean, look at the size of this thing. It might be a good plan to seperate the name from the place.
------------------ Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta 1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA *ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE* http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information
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09:49 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
The "ratings bar" is more a popularity contest then anything else.
Have to disagree with you again, if it weren't for the members with mostly a green rating bar, this Forum would have been shut down a long time ago. Think about it!!!
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09:52 PM
FieroHarry Member
Posts: 1809 From: Virginia Beach VA Registered: Apr 2001
Hum, If you go to a new diner, and order something youve never had before. Turns out you didnt like the taste, did you go to the kitchen and tell the chef he's fusked up?
No, more than likely, 99% of the time, you never go back.
So please dont stand outside the diners door with a sign trying to convice all the patrons who like the food, that its bad for them!
My 10 cents.........................
Mighty tasty Cliff, you keep right on making the soup!
[This message has been edited by FieroHarry (edited 06-16-2004).]
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11:13 PM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Well its because of my opinions that the bar is red. i really hope something like this wont make people do the negative thing. Im not name calling or stirring the pot here. I just wanted some things off of my chest. The "ratings bar" is more a popularity contest then anything else.
It is because of the way you presented your opinions that your bar is red. And you've gotten a whopping 4 more ratings since you started this thread, so don't even try to use the "everyone is giving me negatives now since they don't agree with my opinion" crap.
Nick
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11:17 PM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
Apparanly, there's this group of people that love messing with this forum. I can only imagine the fun they must be having on my and the forum's expense. Well, they will be thrilled to hear it's having an effect. Yes, their actions upset me quite a bit. Yes, it does cost me valuable time each day to wade through the thousands of spam email finding the legit emails. Yes, I did have to close some of my email accounts. Yes, I am considering shutting it all down. Yes, I do mind when somebody uses my name to post crap on other forums/websites. So who knows. Maybe some day they will win. Not because I lose, but because I'm getting tired of the fight. It's strange that when you suddenly have your own family, how your priorities shift. All of a sudden, some things aren't worth fighting for anymore.
So for those people: next time you talk to each other, over the phone, through email or face-to-face, you can start gloating now and feel proud of yourself. You are winning the battle. Maybe some day, you can pride yourself as the ones who brought down the forum (and me). That must be quite an achievement for yourselves. Something to talk about for many years to come. Until you grow up. And I guarantee you, you won't feel so proud then anymore.
Is anyone else really concerned about what he just said here?
Don't do it Cliff! There's way too many people who AREN'T causing problems. Don't let a few trolls ruin it for everyone. Heck, if someone were to mention WHERE Shaun and other people who enjoyed causing problems lives, I'm sure a few forum members would have no problem dropping by and having a word with them on your behalf. Or maybe we could cause them to have to close a few of THIER email accounts. Fight fire with fire and all that.
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11:21 PM
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
It is because of the way you presented your opinions that your bar is red. And you've gotten a whopping 4 more ratings since you started this thread, so don't even try to use the "everyone is giving me negatives now since they don't agree with my opinion" crap.
Nick
Actually since i started this thread ive recieved 13 and your waaay off base about your statement. thats not what i said nor implied. thanks though! My bar was half red the moment it showed up. Dont go looking for issues that arent there. I realize that this thread is getting some people worked up but dont start flaming for 1/2 sentences.
------------------ Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta 1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA *ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE* http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information
[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 06-16-2004).]
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11:24 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Is anyone else really concerned about what he just said here?
( In reference to what Cliff Posted ). I can fully understand why Cliff posted what he did, and I wouldn't be surprised that the day could come before we know it, where you see a message on your screen "Pennocks Fiero Forum Not Found".
A Man can only take so much crap, and the effort to please a few isn't worth it anymore. Cliff doesn't owe us anything and it is up to us, the members to govern ourselves, to try to make his task as pleasant as possible. Problem is that many people just don't see it that way.
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11:39 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Apparanly, there's this group of people that love messing with this forum. I can only imagine the fun they must be having on my and the forum's expense. Well, they will be thrilled to hear it's having an effect. Yes, their actions upset me quite a bit. Yes, it does cost me valuable time each day to wade through the thousands of spam email finding the legit emails. Yes, I did have to close some of my email accounts. Yes, I am considering shutting it all down. Yes, I do mind when somebody uses my name to post crap on other forums/websites. So who knows. Maybe some day they will win. Not because I lose, but because I'm getting tired of the fight. It's strange that when you suddenly have your own family, how your priorities shift. All of a sudden, some things aren't worth fighting for anymore.
Is there anything we can do to help?
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11:39 PM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Christ sakes im not going to argue over "how many votes off the island" i recieved.....lets kill this and move on.
------------------ Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta 1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA *ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE* http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information
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11:42 PM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Well I guerss there are two ways to address this post: Stay out of it or take part. Since I'm here, here my $0.02 worth, flame me if you want, I won't be coming back this way, it's just my opinion.
quote
1. People who are afraid to do anything without asking the boards 'permission' or 'acceptance'
It takes all sorts to make the world. People hang out here for different reasons like to be part of a community, to help others, to get help. Heck it doesn't really matter why people are here, it just nice that there is such a place.
quote
2. Fiero Vendor a$$ kissers. These people are the ones who dont know how to goto a hardware store or nut and bolt shop to buy some nuts and bolt and would rather buy these so called 'kits' that these vendors have pieced together from their local nut and bolt and sell at a premium
Businesses exist for one reason, to make money. If you are not in business to make money it is a hobby. There are also lots of people in all walks of life that do not know how to find exactly what they need. Kit vendors of any sort make that easy for a certain set of people. Look at the modular funiture bussiness. Sure we COULD all make most of that stuff but do we, no way. There are also some vendors out there (Rodney comes to mind) that are a bit of both. They try to make a litle money AND help the community as well. We need both sorts, be thankfull they are there.
quote
3. Fiero Parts Vendors who feel the need to overcharge for the simpliest items. 250 bucks for motor mounts? 2500 for adaptor kits? 100 bucks for SS vacuum lines?
Same as 2 above. They are in business to make $$$. They will charge whatever they think the market will stand. That applies to anything. You don't think your average car is really worth $19,925.85 do you, it's that price because that's what the market and the competition dictates. Fair value has bugger all to do with it. There's also plenty of advice here for anyone who cares to listen as to the value of various vendor parts. In the absense of any alternatives to some parts to pays rour money or you make your own if at all possible but sometime it cost more in time, research and tools to make your own than to simply fork over the $ for a ready made and proven part. If you can do it cheaper then great, make loads of whatever it is and market it for less than the other guy and good luck to you, but there's a BIG difference between knocking up something for yourself and making a amrket quality product.
quote
4. I feel only a small portion of the actual members here have anything worth saying and the board, as it is set up now with only 2 sections and ONE moderator, their posts get lost sooo fast in the truly mundane posts such as "what does a rear sway bar do?" "whats wrong with my car" " my lights dont work" or the ever popular "im going to mass produce these awesome products for cheap, what do you think?" threads that allways die a horrible death on page 10. THIS FORUM NEEDS A "IM NEW AND I NEED HELP" SECTION.
Well you could argue tyhat posts like this one come into this category but in the interests of civility I won't, or is it too late for that Same as 1. It takes all sorts. I ignore the posts that don't look interesting (but yes, better topic descriptions than "look here" would be nice since I never do). As for the one moderator, in my opinion Cliff is one of the best things to happen to the Fiero community. Don't forget this guy is also running a business, this fiero thing is just a side line. Personally I think the forum has a good balance of subjects (could loose the off topic though but that's just my opinion) without being over bearing. Some forums I visit have just too many section to know where to look for anything, or where to post anything. The way Cliff has it is simple which suits me just fine, me being a dumb a$$ an' all )
quote
5. Trolls and post whores who have nothing better to do than flood the forum regarding the same thing over and over or adding the ever famous post " yeah" " nice" "me too"
Well I don't know about anyone else but I like having people tell me what a great job I have done, be it here, work, home or anywhere else. It's nice to get approval from your peers.
Edit: I just read Cliff's comments above and all I can say to Cliff is NIL CARBORUNDUM ILLIGITIUM did I get that right) or Don't let the b******s grind you down.
Dave, I almost swaped a dohc when i read your website. That was back in the day...I appreciate your response and honestly do respect your opinion.
------------------ Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta 1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA *ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE* http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information
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11:50 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
must...resist...urge... to rate - members.... urrggh...
Really, when men will pay $80 for a Viagra and you think 400% markup is obcsene? You obviously have never run a succesful design and production company or been involved in marketing.
Donk you must've been having a bad day to come up with such a huge "Kick Me" post.
------------------ John DuRette, Custom 85 SE, PFF SUPPORTER
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11:54 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
donk316, I've got to ask this, why do you include your signature in every post you make in the same thread??? Cliff has posted many times not to do this, once in a thread is enough, your eating up page space man!!!
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11:56 PM
Jun 17th, 2004
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
I hope all the members realize that threads like this are bringing on the end of this forum! I have learned alot about my Fiero from this site. Even the repeative threads usually contain info that I haven't see before. If your unhappy here don't visit this site. Please, don't ruin this place for those that NEED it. Cliff, I hope you can overlook the few bad apples and continue this forum for those of us that respect what you do for the Fiero community! -Robert
First off, by your own definition you yourself have made posts that are no help and shouldn't be posted. Most recently your first post in the thread about weight loss on the Fiero was telling the guy to eat right and exercise. How was that helpful to anyone? It amazes me how people can be so closeminded or in their own world as not to see the world from someone elses point of view. Why is it you think your opinion of how this forum is run, what should or should not be posted, etc is right over anyone elses?? Seriously, consider that for a minute. Has it ever occured to you even for a moment that you might be (gasp) just possibly....wrong? :-O I think you've got some kind of God complex. You come into threads and give your opinion, tell people who don't agree with you that they're stupid (basically) then you get a red bar and you don't understand why. Now, anyone that knows me will tell you that i ALWAYS support peoples right to express their opinion but you really don't seem (to me) to actually handle or conceive that you might just be wrong about what you're saying or giving your opinion on. This thread is a good example. You gave your opinion and now that people don't agree with you it's blamed on "bandwagons" or whatever reason other then maybe others have an opinion all of their own that's right. Now why is it that people saying that's good or asking for opinions is bad and why, when most people on here do that, do you think that you are right about it not being a valid reason for posting? I agree with what was said about liking to hear if what i did was liked or not. Why would i post anything i've done if i wasn't looking for input on it?
Why is it bad for someone to ask what a freaking sway bar is or does? If they don't know, why shouldn't they ask? Perhapes belittling someone makes you feel better about yourself or what?
The thing about Cliff and him being the only moderator; in MY opinion, i like Cliff being the only mod and i'll tell you why. Mods are human beings and thus are effected by their opinions and beliefs. Cliff, being so far away, has a certain detachment from all of us that gives him a more fair point of view. Most of us on here not only know each other from the forum but also know each other from actual shows that we all go to and see each other at.
The vendors; number one, they have to make money at their business otherwise what's the point of being in business? Also, most of them give back to the Fiero comminity for shows. The Fiero Store gives to the dells and Fierorama, so does archie. I only used those two because they were the ones you brought up more then once. They both give to many other shows as well. If you actually went to some you might ppreciate what they do more! They also provide things that we either can't get anywhere else or things that are much easier to buy from them in a large group rather then driving all over hell looking for something. Takes about 2 minutes for me to order something online instead of driving to the parts store and talking with the local rube and trying to explain what i need for a car they never even heard of! I also then have to listen to their moronic questions like "didn't those thAngs catch unfure?" (those are purposely spelled wrong for redneck speak ) I don't have to listen or put up with that kinda stupid crap from the Fiero Store. Loyalty actually means something more to me than just a word in the english dictionary. Treat me well/right and i'll support you all i can! What's the prob. you're having navigating your way around here? It's pretty simple. If you're having trouble then please refer to Naskies directions.
The rating bar; You got what you got because of the way you do things, not because of popularity. I know that's a hard pill to swallow but it's the truth. I'm sure there probably are some negs you've gotten that you didn't deserve, no rating system is perfect, but all that red should make you stand up and think not just go blaming it on being a popularity contest.
I don't really mean to flame you but i came at you a little strong because, from what i'm reading, you're really not thinking about what people are saying. I figured you'd at least think about what Cliff said but it looks like it just went right through your ears without stopping. Just my opinion though.
------------------ Activities Director N.I.F.E. www.fierofocus.com
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12:59 AM
PFF
System Bot
Howard_Sacks Member
Posts: 1871 From: Cherry Hill, NJ Registered: Apr 2001
I'm sure DOZENS of knowledgable people left cause of the shaun.
Give me a break.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
Well, I just find it funny you mention Shaun as a knowledgeable person who left, and not the dozens of knowledgeable people that left because of him.I just find it funny you blame him leaving on this forum and their people, and not on his behavior. I never said you are a "Shaun Lover". I just find it funny that whenever people are "bashing" the forum, his name pops up sooner or later.
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01:24 AM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
I'm sure DOZENS of knowledgable people left cause of the shaun.
Give me a break.
Oh please, Howard_Sacks. You've been on my case ever since your buddy Shaun has been booted. It's getting old. Your short little PM's are getting old.You know just as well as I that I'm right. And your selective quoting won't change a thing. You want me to start quoting all the emails I've received from people that have left because of him back then?
Ah never mind. I already know where your head is in this. This is exactly the crap I'm talking about. Well, like I said, you and your buddy Shaun can be proud of yourselves. You are not far from getting what you want.
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01:59 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I wouldn't blame Cliff for making some changes. I understand the burnout phenomenon and also how priorities change. For the most part, Cliff does little in the way of slapping members down, he pretty much lets the forum police itself.
If it were me, and I was getting stuff from people like he was, I'd be much more heavy handed. Cliff knows the stats and although there are 9,000 members, there are maybe 500 that are regular posters here. Out of that, there are maybe 1 in 30 that might really annoy him or give him grief. If this were my board, they'd simply be gone. Bye-bye.
Those of you that are being so critical, this is NOT a public institution. This is Cliff Pennock's Fiero Forum . It says it at the top of every page. IOW, it's his house. If you don't like his house rules then move on, nobody's keeping you here. Many people do just that, differences of opinion will cause that kind of thing. You simply don't come into a man's house and start telling him how to decorate it, or how many rooms to have, or how he should behave in it. If these things offend you, build your own house and show him how it's done.
I would Like to ask why you have been doing all the work by youreself Cliff. This forum is completely different from every outher I am a member of. Every outher forum always has a few moderators to keep track of its members and there alot smaller than this forum. Is there a specific reason you have not trusted 3 or 4 members to help keep the forum going by having the work load reduced on you? If think you should seriously look at making a few moderators to answer email and take care of the work load. I just recently set up a website and forum for us saskatoon guys and I wouldent take the cripe that gets dished out on cliff. They would be out on there ass without a good bye. Maybe its time to do the laundry so to speak.
[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 06-17-2004).]
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02:17 AM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11779 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
I would Like to ask why you have been doing all the work by youreself Cliff.
This has been asked many times. There are several reasons. First of all it's because I don't believe in the concept of (a group of) moderators. I don't want to create some kind of elite bunch that decides what is and isn't appropriate. I want a simple set of rules for the members, and only one person they will have to deal with. I trust myself that I can resist temptation of making decisions based on personal feelings. I know I can also resist temptation to boot people as long as their rating says they shouldn't (if it were otherwise, some people would have been banned a long time ago), unless of course they grossly violate the few simple rules I have set.
Besides, moderation isn't what is taking up much time. It's the administration. It's making sure the server/forum has a near 100% uptime, that the forum stays fast, that the forum is kept relatively clean, and that the forum conforms to what the majority wants out of it. I spend most of my time creating/changing programs for the forum. Implementing ideas brought on by the members. Again, like I said a few posts earlier, this forum was shaped by its members.
And for the members it's much easier if there's only one person they have to deal with. If there were moderators, I'm sure discussions like these would be much more prevalent.
And it works because the rules I've set out are simple and based on one single thing. Mutual respect. And apparantly (and unfortunately) that's the one trait that is lacking from some people. For some (unclear) reason, for one particular group of people it's "l33t" to go against the stream. Not because they actually have a different opinion than others, but simply because it somehow makes their ego grow. So they come here and try to create chaos. And they get p'd off when they don't succeed. They can't stand the fact that most members here stand as one and are prepared to defend "their" little corner in cyberspace. So besides attacking the members, they start attacking me and the forum. And realization starts to kick in that I am a much easier target than its members. And they are right. I am an easier target.
If I would start using (more) moderators, then the forum would no longer be what I intended it to be; a forum mostly moderated by the members themselves. A place where people would see that something purely based on respect instead of policing, works. A place where it's the responsibility of the community as a whole to make it work. A place where common sense rules over "law". And like I said, that works perfectly for most people here. But it also creates heaven for those who prefer chaos over order. Because they realize it takes a while before their actions are "punished". They know that with hit-and-run tactics, they can get away with a lot of things.
I've been here a little over a year now. And I've seen quite a few of these threads pop up. Why do people have to complain about this place. Someone above said the if you don't like what the resturant is serving than leave (paraphrased). I do not understand why people have to publicly berate this place, it's members and our host. There is a thing here called PM where you can privately talk to someone about your "beefs."
I have no idea why Cliff would want to keep this place going with all of the crap he takes. He has poured his heart and soul into this place and most people recognize this and are very very appreciative of that. A few want to tear down the walls (WHY?)
Just because this forum is not set up like the Yugo forum(that was a joke ) or has 4 moderators like the Pacer forum (another joke ) does not mean that it is bad. Our car was made differently than any other Pontiac ever made. We hear about it all the time. Most of us get defensive when people rag on our cars. Don't you think Cliff would get a little upset if you ragged on HIS forum. It's not that you were trying to promote change, it's the presentation in the material.
I am proud to be a member here and thankful that we have PFF. If you don't like the set up here, then try the other Fiero site. Someday soon we may all be there because this awesome resource may be gone.
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07:37 AM
DelawareFiero Member
Posts: 1050 From: Tod vor Schmach!! Registered: Apr 2004
So besides attacking the members, they start attacking me and the forum. And realization starts to kick in that I am a much easier target than its members. And they are right. I am an easier target.
Anyone who hides behind a key board and monitor harrassing people is a spineless punk
Cliff as you have said, the majority of the people on this board appreciate your time, your genuine efforts to be fair and especially your honesty. I for one have a lot of respect for what you stand for and how you conduct yourself and can understand your frustration. Losing this board would be like losing part of my family !! Those who don't understand that should not be here in the first place. I for one don't believe there should be any "Ranting" and threads of this type should be closed immediatly. There only purpose in my opinion is to create chaos. If you have some issues about the board present them as a question in a respectful manner. If you are told no or not agreed with by Cliff or the Majority and don't like it or can't except it then leave ....simple as that. Those few who continue posting complaints about the board ARE the ones who could care less about the board. My thoughts on this are Cliff has said he has had about enough which is understandable. He has also indicated it has crossed his mind to shut it down. Common sense tells me If I want to see the board stay then I would make every effort to keep it. Those who are not making this effort are the ones planting the bad seeds. It should be very obvious who those few are ....... they will be the ones still complaining and harressing members with there needless sarcasm and flames and should especially now stand out like a sore thumb !!!
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08:37 AM
lurker Member
Posts: 12353 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
I spend several hours a day enjoying this forum, if I didn't I wouldn't be here. I disagree with you completely. It's perfect for 99% of us. I'm one of the lurkers who just enjoys learning about Fieros and following some of the projects going on...cardealers longitudinal swap...FieroX's turbo 3800...Chester's V8 swap...Jazzman's troubles with his clutch hydraulics... PJK's turbo 4.9. What a rich resourse of information and variety of answers to the same questions. Recently, I went to the archives and learned about the clearcoat problems I have on my 'new' 87 GT, the 7th Fiero I've bought since I've been on the great forum. The information was free, a gift from Cliff and the forum members.
Shaun had some interesting projects going on but he is a jerk. I think he enjoys being one. People who support him need to consider if they have similar personailities.
Cliff, I've seen you fight the frustration during my three years as a member of your forum. I've felt the loss when you pulled the plug once. Man, what an empty feeling with no PFF. Seems like it was 12 hours of misery and feeling like I had lost my best friend. I want you to know that that I appreciate you and this forum.
Thanks, Robert
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09:34 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
UG! quit yer whining....wa wa wa 1. lotsa of people like "acceptance" - especially driving these stupid little cars 2. not everyone is technicaly gifted 3. R&D is hard to get paid for 4. we get newb's regularly - give 'em a brake 5. see #1
yeah, we all get sick of "its the igintion module", but for a newb, thats golden info. like a longtime girlfriend - sometimes you forget what great peice 'o a$$ she really is step back - it works great - remember its for newb's too
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS POST TO HEART AND START A FLAME WAR. I WOULD LIKE REAL INPUT HERE.
1. People who are afraid to do anything without asking the boards 'permission' or 'acceptance'
2. Fiero Vendor a$$ kissers. These people are the ones who dont know how to goto a hardware store or nut and bolt shop to buy some nuts and bolt and would rather buy these so called 'kits' that these vendors have pieced together from their local nut and bolt and sell at a premium.
3. Fiero Parts Vendors who feel the need to overcharge for the simpliest items. 250 bucks for motor mounts? 2500 for adaptor kits? 100 bucks for SS vacuum lines?
4. I feel only a small portion of the actual members here have anything worth saying and the board, as it is set up now with only 2 sections and ONE moderator, their posts get lost sooo fast in the truly mundane posts such as "what does a rear sway bar do?" "whats wrong with my car" " my lights dont work" or the ever popular "im going to mass produce these awesome products for cheap, what do you think?" threads that allways die a horrible death on page 10. THIS FORUM NEEDS A "IM NEW AND I NEED HELP" SECTION.
5. Trolls and post whores who have nothing better to do than flood the forum regarding the same thing over and over or adding the ever famous post " yeah" " nice" "me too"
I wouldnt doubt if my IP is one of the "most logged on". I am here when ever I can. I help where ever I can. Folks here seem to get all worked up if you dont use flowery answers or god forbid, dont agree!
Something else that bothers me, people who know what they are talking about, hanging around here less and less, or getting banned and forced to lurk....If it wasnt for www.60degreev6.com I would have never met Shaun and he has been a HUGE help with my motor build.
Okay last one and this is a doozy.
I have a .....for lack of better words....problem with {edited due to good point made by naskie18]...
I would be truly shocked if ANYONE has the ball bearings to agree with me.
I've read through this and it's interesting to say the least.
But to Donk's original post. I agree with most of it. It's almost impossible to post anything that is contradictary to the majority with out feeling the warth of the group. The forum has it's "Clicks" or groups of people that have similar interest outside of PFF. It's natural and happens in everyday life. I think in alot of cases in the past where most people get into trouble here is not what they said it's how it was said for the most part.
Number two on your list, a little harsh. Some people like myself are extremely busy and time is a premium. So if someone has something I need or want, even if I could go to the local junk yard or parts stores and get it much cheaper, it's easier for me to buy it from someone else who has already made a kit or got the parts off a car I need.
Yes number three is obvisious to me as well in some cases, not all, you just need to shop around as I do. If the price is extremely high, then I put the kit together myself like I did when I did my 11.25" brake upgrade. There is more than one vendor for the most part for any part we need out there. The vendors that I think you are talking about are marketing their goods here. It's advertising for them, they are in business to make money, you need to keep that in mind, all businesses do it. The difference is that the forum there is a two way dialog which can be positive or negative for them. Almost like a instant survey of thier product or service. If it's good we know about it, bad the same. If the goods are in question we talk about it, sometimes it's a heated dialog, but ultimately it's good for us as a whole to know what is going on.
Number 4, yes it always is the new members that don't know the forum that ask those questions. If I see them, as others do, they post a link in those threads to the info and explain how to do a search. I was quilty as well when I first started here of asking questions that had been asked before. This is a place to learn, use it as such and help when you can.
With the rating system trolls have been taken care of relatively fast. Yes they just come in a start stuff for fun and it is a PITA.
The 60degree forum is a very good forum as well. I've been there a few times on my 3400 turbo build up looking for advise as well as here. A 3400 turbo is not a common thing so multiple sources help.
Donk, I think I understand what you were trying to say. No grudge here.
Cliff, as always thanks, this place has helped me learn alot.
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10:42 AM
DelawareFiero Member
Posts: 1050 From: Tod vor Schmach!! Registered: Apr 2004
a) you have an opinion here, consider yourself lucky to have the opportunity to voice it here
b) have an opinion re a car/mod etc? great! about someone else? keep it to yourself, especially if it's negative, unless you've been cheated/robbed
c) we live in a social environment: so, we're also social on here i.e. pat on the backs.this is not just a technical forum btw.
d) we live in a supply & demand environment, if the price is too high, then negotiate it or don't buy it or make it yourself. Period.
e) ratings bar: your attitude does influence it; your opinion about some fiero thing shoudn't, your opinion about someone here will definitely! personal opinion: i think the bar should go. (& people be removed on their attitude)
f) if u don't like this forum or a thread, then click outa here, go make your own.
g) it's easy to categorize people, harder to come up with better ideas/improvements
h) appreciate what you have here, if you don't, your loss. don't ruin it for others by starting a stupid post like this.
there's more but i've wasted enough valuable time on this already.
