quote Originally posted by fierogt88: Ok, I want to make it _very_ clear that I made no derogatory remarks about Cliff. I was simply pointing out that anytime one of the 7000 quiet guys speaks up about how hard this forum is to use, the top 60 posters show up and insist that everything is fine because it works great for the fiero-addicted guys who couldn't drag themselves away from their forum long enough to ever experience the dreaded 10 pages of new posts. So, Cliff appeases the loud minority instead of trying to do small improvements for the quiet majority. Remember, the people who would benefit from these suggestions probably won't even check this site until this weekend, and then it'll be buried down on page 9 where it has no hope of attracting support from the majority of users....

I'm with this 100%, everything fierogt88 has said has been exactly my experience. Do you want this to board to grow and welcome new Fiero owners into the community or do you just want an a little elite society that only caters to the people here everyday? Look at the discussions.....find one person with under 1000 posts that opposes the idea of change. If you are not always on you can forget about following your topics. Is everyone so opposed to change that they'll come out and say PFF is perfect in everyway and will never need anything new??? If not then you're just opposed to a change in your routine. I think the board is great but there is always room for improvement. We're not asking for 10 sub-catagories right now, or a total renovation. Just add 1 FAQ section, or maybe a tech article section, or just one new forum (I know choosing one will be another hot debate so lets not do that here). If it flops, you get rid of it, it's simple. If this topic is really brought up so much maybe that should tell you something about what the majority wants. I'm willing to be if the posts are dug up you'll find a different person asking for change everytime.....but the same people shooting down.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTT (edited 06-18-2004).]

I agree that a technical FAQ section would be a bonus. However, has anyone noticed that Cliff has a new wife and a baby? Exactly where do you expect him to fit the time in to creating this section? If you (and by you I mean anyone with the skill and knowledge to pick up the torch) feel that a FAQ is a neccesity, then create one. Type the documents, upload the pics, and host the pages. I'm sure Cliff would gladly add a link to your site, exactly as he has with theogre's fantastic resource.

I'm not trying to shout down anyone who wants to make this a better community, but there is talk and then there is action. It's not appropriate to expect Cliff to provide all the action.

PS- Donate to PFF!

So what people really want, somewhat as a minimum, isn't really more forums but a FAQ section which has writeups in it about some repair procedures and technical advice.

Isn't that what Ogre's Cave is?

https://www.fiero.nl/ogre/

There is also the Fiero Online Service Guide:

http://floridafieros.org/osg/osg.html

With both of these, I am not sure we need to create another technical FAQ section from scratch. Ogre's Cave is linked at the top of the forum. Maybe we just need something to point out what it is, since its not implicit in the name. Cliff may be able to link to the online service guide too. Thoughts on this?

As for more forums again, I do not see a true end to the debate. Obviously it is a devisive issue. Every time it gets brought up, we end up in huge arguments about it and really don't get nowhere. There is also a question as to whether the forum has a majority of people who really want it or not. Now Cliff has stated that they do not, and he would know. If that changes, I am sure he would gladly add sections. Instead of some of the professional and personal attacks I have seen handed out to Cliff the last couple days by people here, maybe we should just kindly ask for a web pole in a thread. Would you like to see Fiero Tech broken down into specialized sections, yes or no. We could leave the poll run for a week or two, get everyone to answer it, and see where it stands. Then if a majority of members wanted it, there could be further discussion on what sections should be. Just something simple like Fiero tech as one, engine swaps as one, or break it down further with visual, stock mechanical, suspension, swaps, or even visual mechanical, V8, 3800 V6, etc etc.

I still much prefer the single forum, for reasons I have said above. The people in the know will gravitate to one particular tech forum otherwise, and we will lose their knowledge and expertise in other forums. However, I'd also be interested in a scientific study to see what people want, and not the speculation I have seen.

[This message has been edited by Fformula88 (edited 06-18-2004).]

We can all post our wish list, but let's remember that this site is being maintained by Cliff as a FREE resource for the benefit of all Fiero owners.
I would hate to estimate the time and money that this list costs Cliff to run . The meager advertising revenue that it generates is probably noise level at best. Let's not expect too much more as we already have so much. If you want a FAQ, the archives have 1000's of articles with info.

There have been alot of good points made. I agree somethings could be better. As far as driving new members away, there LOSS not PFF. Fiero owners are known for effort I thought, if new members cant put effort into this place and are easily discouraged, then they arent into Fieros that much now are they? So they can just get into there Honda and go somewhere else.( No offense I have a Toyota) People still dont realize the Fiero community is very, very small. Compared to other car groups that is. How about this forum was never created? Where would we ALL be then? The community would be even smaller because alot of us including me wouldnt have anywhere to turn to recieve help on our fieros. We've all seen the " I'm tired of fixing on this Fiero, and Im getting out of em" thread. How many people have been refreshed about there Fiero, and having the passion again about there Fiero because of PFF?
Plus all the friends Ive made BECAUSE PFF helps bring groups together. Plus this Forum is free, I donate just out of respect for the hard work of 1 man. Yeah $$$ helps but when you have people constantly complaining, $$$ dont mean anything.
The old saying goes " Be happy with what you got"
That has never been more true.
Oh Im not a post whore either, Ive been a member since 2002, (just changed names) if I miss a topic oh well. Someone will usually point me in the right direction, or its still being talked about.
IM all AMERICAN baby "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT"
Later