I believe Cliff is on vacation from the forum currently .

[This message has been edited by boristheblade (edited 06-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: I know the reason for more HP is that there is more air in the chamber, I thought that the N20 cooling the air and making it more dense was the reason for it. Thanks for the info I didn't realize that n20 has more 02 than air itself. Thanks!

To get back on the topic of N2O:

I don't know too much about nitrous, but looking at the chemical formulas of nitrous oxide --> N2O and then oxygen in the stable diatomic state ---> O2 , it seems that oxygen itself has double the oxygen atoms. The concentration of oxygen is greater when N20 is atomized in air because its a combination of the two chemicals in a similar volume of gas. From what I understand, nitrous mixes easily with hydrocarbons and then burns faster and hotter and releases more energy when ignited (add those up and you get more power). I'm pretty sure this is why a timing advance is needed. Thats my take on nitrous anyways. Hope it helps.

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1986 Fiero SE

One year ago this month I joined PFF excited to share the ups and downs of ownership and the warm fuzzies of belonging to a group of like-minded fanatics. I barely made the 20th as I had first heard about it here with about a month to prepare. I wasnt able to register, so I just showed up and parked my Fiero off to the side and wandered around in amazement, my jaw on the ground the entire time. Late on Saturday night when everyone was hobknobbing in the parking lot, I asked someone if there was any way I could procure a keepsake of the show, still dazed at being a part of the biggest gathering of Fieros ever [and possibly ever will be]. That person directed me to Steve Kelly who dropped what he was doing to get me 2 teeshirts, one signed by Hulki and Parki. My friend had also undertaken her own search and came up with Dale Starcher, who had dropped what he was doing to assist. Both of these guys went out of their way to help a 'nobody'... a non-registered attendee that had no club membership or clout of any kind. To Dale and Steve, I once again thank you both for your efforts that night. Let me add that procuring these items was no easy task as they were in short supply by that time.

The week following the show, it became apparent to me just what the forum was about. Gone are the warm fuzzies, now that I've seen this crap repeated time and time again. It will never end. Phil-N, I have to totally agree with what you posted. Bashing of any kind is really stupid and shows a lack of social skills. I was wondering when this crap would spill over into the various shows and now that the threat of assault against Steve has been made public, I will definately pick and choose where I go and who I hang with. I was hoping this forum would be above this type of childhood behavior but I was wrong. I know several people that will have nothing to do with this forum and now I understand why. Whats funny is some of the most respected names here have proved those people right. Someone stated in another thread that this forum wasnt like this 5 years ago... I believe it was the post about the 4.3 quarter-miler.

I've been involved with mechanics and vehicle restoration for the last 40 years [yes, I was a young pup when dad got me involved] and some of the things I've seen here that's passed off as technical help makes me laugh. To those that feel Steve posted misinformation, you're chicken-scratching for something to ***** about. Why not grow a set and lurk in Tech and when the next asshat tells you to just drop the pan, replace the bad bearing, and alls well, jump their crapper about misinformation... or maybe you dont know any better either. Someone posted their personal dirt on Steve... up til now, I had respect for that individual, but it seems it was wrongly placed. You all really need to take a step back and look at yourselves. If you like what you see, carry on. You'll do so without me. No biggie there, you have your forum. For me, its looking more and more like a highschool clique. I guess some just grow older.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: "0 to 60 in six seconds." (I wasn't going to bring it up. Somebody else saved me the trouble.) "Oh wait... it wasn't really six seconds. That was just a guess." (A very generous one at that.) I'll bet that 75 shot dropped that to four seconds. "Oh... wait. It wasn't really a 75 shot." (It couldn't have been. The cylinder head is still in one piece. )

Don't forget the "one of a kind" factory one-off Indy seats.

quote Originally posted by doublec4: To get back on the topic of N2O: I don't know too much about nitrous, but looking at the chemical formulas of nitrous oxide --> N2O and then oxygen in the stable diatomic state ---> O2 , it seems that oxygen itself has double the oxygen atoms. The concentration of oxygen is greater when N20 is atomized in air because its a combination of the two chemicals in a similar volume of gas. From what I understand, nitrous mixes easily with hydrocarbons and then burns faster and hotter and releases more energy when ignited (add those up and you get more power). I'm pretty sure this is why a timing advance is needed. Thats my take on nitrous anyways. Hope it helps.

Here's the visual of what was just said:

Yeah, that doesn't work either. LOL

Steve is a looser

These threads sure gets old !

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 06-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by FieroMojo: One year ago this month I joined PFF excited to share the ups and downs of ownership and the warm fuzzies of belonging to a group of like-minded fanatics. I barely made the 20th as I had first heard about it here with about a month to prepare. I wasnt able to register, so I just showed up and parked my Fiero off to the side and wandered around in amazement, my jaw on the ground the entire time. Late on Saturday night when everyone was hobknobbing in the parking lot, I asked someone if there was any way I could procure a keepsake of the show, still dazed at being a part of the biggest gathering of Fieros ever [and possibly ever will be]. That person directed me to Steve Kelly who dropped what he was doing to get me 2 teeshirts, one signed by Hulki and Parki. My friend had also undertaken her own search and came up with Dale Starcher, who had dropped what he was doing to assist. Both of these guys went out of their way to help a 'nobody'... a non-registered attendee that had no club membership or clout of any kind. To Dale and Steve, I once again thank you both for your efforts that night. Let me add that procuring these items was no easy task as they were in short supply by that time. The week following the show, it became apparent to me just what the forum was about. Gone are the warm fuzzies, now that I've seen this crap repeated time and time again. It will never end. Phil-N, I have to totally agree with what you posted. Bashing of any kind is really stupid and shows a lack of social skills. I was wondering when this crap would spill over into the various shows and now that the threat of assault against Steve has been made public, I will definately pick and choose where I go and who I hang with. I was hoping this forum would be above this type of childhood behavior but I was wrong. I know several people that will have nothing to do with this forum and now I understand why. Whats funny is some of the most respected names here have proved those people right. Someone stated in another thread that this forum wasnt like this 5 years ago... I believe it was the post about the 4.3 quarter-miler. I've been involved with mechanics and vehicle restoration for the last 40 years [yes, I was a young pup when dad got me involved] and some of the things I've seen here that's passed off as technical help makes me laugh. To those that feel Steve posted misinformation, you're chicken-scratching for something to ***** about. Why not grow a set and lurk in Tech and when the next asshat tells you to just drop the pan, replace the bad bearing, and alls well, jump their crapper about misinformation... or maybe you dont know any better either. Someone posted their personal dirt on Steve... up til now, I had respect for that individual, but it seems it was wrongly placed. You all really need to take a step back and look at yourselves. If you like what you see, carry on. You'll do so without me. No biggie there, you have your forum. For me, its looking more and more like a highschool clique. I guess some just grow older.

ANYTIME you have a group of people, there will be personality conflicts. But I don't think it's fair to judge the entire forum because of it.

There's a reason that Steve's threads turn into a flame war. Do a search, and you'll find the same pattern over and over. His threads are usually one of two things: pictures of the green beast, or lies about how well it (or his other cars) perform. Or both of those things together.

The pictures I can live with, except for the fact that for awhile, they were showing up in almost every thread. And not just one or two pics, either. Now, in this thread, I've got no problem with the pictures. If you don't want to see the car, don't read the thread, plain and simple. But it gets old seeing so many pics of it in so many other threads. I don't hate the car, it's just not to my tastes. And I applaud Steve for the time and memories he's giving to Jordan. It's too bad more fathers don't spend the same amount of time and attention on their kids.

But the endless lies, that harder to stomach. This follows a pattern too. Steve posts BS, other people call him for posting BS, then Steve gets defensive and starts back-pedalling. Then he tries to divert attention from the original BS by trying to make it seem everyone is out to get him. As I said, do a search for his threads. It's not just this one, it's pretty much EVERY thread he starts or participates in.

Steve, not everyone is going to like your/Jordan's car, but if you're going to post about it publicly, you've got to expect that. But you wouldn't have this huge negative reaction if you'd just be straight up about stuff.

quote Originally posted by revin: This sure gets old !

Did that custom green smiley just barf a rod?

J/K

[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 06-29-2004).]

Greg......you registered in March of 2000, this is your second post in 4 years! What was your other post?

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Greg......you registered in March of 2000, this is your second post in 4 years! What was your other post?

Well if you must know, do a search and let me know what it was.

"molecule of the month"
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/n2o/n2oc.htm
A Boost for Fast Cars
At room temperature, N2O is quite unreactive with most substances, including alkali metals, halogens, and even ozone. It is therefore widely used as a propellant in aerosol cans in place of the CFCs which can damage the ozone layer. When heated sufficiently, however, N2O decomposes exothermically to N2 and O2.
If this reaction occurs in the combustion chamber of an automobile, 3 moles of gas would be produced from 2 moles, providing an extra boost to the piston, as well as liberating more heat. It also has a number of other benefits. The increased oxygen provides more efficient combustion of fuel, the nitrogen buffers the increased cylinder pressure controlling the combustion, and the latent heat of vaporisation of the N2O reduces the intake temperature. Therefore N2O is occasionally injected into the fuel lines of racing cars to give more power to the engine and to give the car exceptional acceleration.

quote Originally posted by Lex:

Sweet, it's the homemade flamethrower! That thing rocks.

quote Originally posted by virii01: Sweet, it's the homemade flamethrower! That thing rocks.

Doesn't it!

This is in response to the advancing your timing (ignition) with nitrous use. From the zillions of articles I've read on nitrous it seems to quicken the combustion process and if you advance you timing with hits of n2o you'll fry an engine. If you take a look in a SUMMIT or JEGS catalogue you'll find timing retard boxes that work in conjunction with nitrous to prevent an engine from grenading . I think that these types of timing retard boxes are used with obssene amounts of nitrous though, so the 35,50,75 shot should be fine with standard timing ,if the engine can hold up!

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 06-30-2004).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: It is therefore widely used as a propellant in aerosol cans in place of the CFCs which can damage the ozone layer.

Hey, does that mean I can go buy some hairspray, hook it into my intake and have homemade nitrous? How much horsepower can I expect from this setup?

quote Originally posted by greg: Steve is a looser

yup.. thats a really helpful and intelligent addition to the current topic.

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*ring* *ring* *ring* *ring* *ring* Hi, this is Kettle, leave a message at the beep.. *beep* Hello Kettle, this is the pot.. You're black

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: Here's the visual of what was just said: Yeah, that doesn't work either. LOL

What do you mean by that? I'm sort of confused.

If you're saying my info about nitrous is wrong, maybe I worded it wrong I basically tried to say what lurker posted... when N2O dissassociates it produces oxygen and nitrogen. Therefore mixing it with the air being taken in by the engine, you get a higher concentration of oxygen which allows you to burn more fuel.

Oh and fierophrek... isn't the advanced timing to protect from detonation which would fry your engine? Detonation with nitrous is a lot worse isn't it?

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 06-30-2004).]

When detonation occurs it takes a period of time, when nitrous is added it takes a shorter period of time .Now an engine running andvanced ignition lets say 30 degrees btdc, when the actual force of the exploding gasses press against the head of the piston it is close to if not at tdc (top dead center)it creates heat and pressure. Now leave that same amount of timing in and add nitrous in the equation and the exploding gasses impact the head of the piston sooner which causes extremely high pressures in the combustion chamber and higher combustion chamber temps.These high temps melt pistons and the extreme pressures grenade connecting rods. So retarding the ignition timing lets combustion happen a fraction of a second later ,the nitrous speeds up combution event so that it will not happen to late (ie. the pistons half way down on power stroke). The extra oxygen allows the combustion event to happen faster and allows more fuel to be burnt in a single cycle of the engine. more burnt fuel =MORE POWER

*sigh*

The thread has quieted down already.

Everything is cool for the moment.

Mark

Steve, I did not bother to read all 7 pages so I was hoping you can clear something up for me. If it was already covered please forgive me.

If I am reading correct you mentioned you had gone through a full bottle after only one day of the install. How long did you run it for?
I had a Zex kit in my 2.8. I used it about 8 times down the 1/4 mile at the track and about 6 or 7 times on the highway and still had about a quarter tank left. Did you retard the timing at all using the 75 shot?

quote Originally posted by iced_theater: Hey, does that mean I can go buy some hairspray, hook it into my intake and have homemade nitrous? How much horsepower can I expect from this setup?

next time youre in the dairy section at your supermarket, check out the canned whipped cream.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: "0 to 60 in six seconds." (I wasn't going to bring it up. Somebody else saved me the trouble.) "Oh wait... it wasn't really six seconds. That was just a guess." (A very generous one at that.) I'll bet that 75 shot dropped that to four seconds. "Oh... wait. It wasn't really a 75 shot." (It couldn't have been. The cylinder head is still in one piece. )

quote Originally posted by margaritaz: Don't forget the "one of a kind" factory one-off Indy seats.

Then their rare 4-cyl Formula. Well, some greasy old guy at a gas station told them that some formulas left the factory with a 4-cyl which there is no proof of what so ever which means their 88 4-cyl must have been a formula so they put formula decals all over it, and every time we asked for the RPO codes he wouldnt respond.

So, its the 0-60 in 6 seconds, porsche-beating green piece of crap
the ultra rare 1-off facotry indy seats with the piece of leather sown on the front of them (whcih were professonanlly analyzed by an upholsterer so they mucst be factory even though they look like some scrap piece sown on by a half-wasted blind man)
and the 4-cyl forumula with no proof or documentaion or even the formula RPO code

quote Originally posted by iced_theater: Hey, does that mean I can go buy some hairspray, hook it into my intake and have homemade nitrous? How much horsepower can I expect from this setup?

No, but you could try it with Whipped Cream.. Or, you could be normal like the rest of us and just suck it out and hope for the best..

meh, with all those stickers it's gotta be putting out at least 700hp anyways...

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1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed click for more pics
1986 GT 5 speed
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

Stickers plus NOS? what a combination!

Don't forget bout the spliters that keep that monster on the road.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: No, but you could try it with Whipped Cream.. Or, you could be normal like the rest of us and just suck it out and hope for the best..

Does the whipped cream give it just that much more of a kick? And about how long do you think it will take before my engine seizes either from the sugar or from that power from the homemade nitrous?

NOW where the HELL is everyone that (-) me in this thread?? I should save all the verbal assualts till the end of a thread when no one cares anymore....

....Instead of seeing me 3 or 4th in line and getting there collective panties in a bunch.

quote Originally posted by iced_theater: Does the whipped cream give it just that much more of a kick? And about how long do you think it will take before my engine seizes either from the sugar or from that power from the homemade nitrous?

didn't you learn anything as a kid? Keep the can upright, and no whipped cream comes out!

WHIPITS

quote Originally posted by doublec4: What do you mean by that? I'm sort of confused. If you're saying my info about nitrous is wrong, maybe I worded it wrong I basically tried to say what lurker posted... when N2O dissassociates it produces oxygen and nitrogen. Therefore mixing it with the air being taken in by the engine, you get a higher concentration of oxygen which allows you to burn more fuel.

No mate, you're spot on! I was just adding a visual reference for all those with the chemical engineering degree. (In other words, 'twas a joke)

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: No, but you could try it with Whipped Cream..

Would that make it a WHIPple blower?? j/k

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: No mate, you're spot on! I was just adding a visual reference for all those with the chemical engineering degree. (In other words, 'twas a joke)

I got one of them there things-

I had one too....Think it was 104...
But with medication, the doctors got it back to normal.

Speaking of meds..............

quote Originally posted by Phil: I got one of them there things-

Uhhhhh .. your engineering of chemicals in the 70's HARDLY qualifies as a degree!

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: Uhhhhh .. your engineering of chemicals in the 70's HARDLY qualifies as a degree!

B.S. ChE University of Rhode Island 1967