fiero1969 (David):

Just wanted to alert you to the fact that I filed a mail fraud complaint against you with the U.S. Postal service. The complaint revolves around your failure to deliver Fiero parts for which you took payment. Other forum members will be posting complaints as well to establish that this constituted a consistent pattern of fraud rather than an isolated event.

Forum members- if you have sent payment for parts to fiero1969 and would like to help the other members of the forum (and those on ebay) avoid similar problems in the future, please post your experiences as a complaint at:

https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

This would be especially helpful if you either sent payment through the mail or used a US Postal money order.

Thank you.

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1988 Yellow Formula Fiero

What state is this person working out of (where did u mail payment to) ?

Wisconsin.

alright i am also doing the same

Seems alot of PFF members getting hosed by PFF members again lately.

EDIT: I've recieved my payment from the member ( not the one in question here ).

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 08-09-2004).]

I'm getting to the point where I'm about to do this. I sent him money in MAY for a distributor. Two months later, no distributor yet, no contacts despite numerous PMs sent to him.

Ed

Yes. It does seem to be more prevalent these days.

The sad thing is that the forum members are very understanding if circumstances force delays, etc. For example, I ordered one of Aus' sub boxes just before he had the problems with his workshop. It took approximately 3 months to get the item, but he was very good about following up with those who placed orders and communicating what had happened.

Most recently the members who have been causing problems seem to be following a pattern. They come in and sell 2-3 items to build up a reputation. Then they make a post saying they are parting out an entire car or engine. Then after they collect the payments, they disapear. I have seen the same thing occur on ebay. The person tends to have a run of very positive feedback (say 5 to 10 transactions) and then 20 negatives. This type of activity is systematic fraud which is very hard to guard against. Hence why I think it is important that we members take every action we can to stop it from continuing.

Any more, you almost need a third party to help with things like this.

Example.....
You both agree on a middle man to handle the money.
You send the money, and the 3rd person lets the seller know that he/she has received the money.
Seller sends the item to the buyer. When the item is received, the 3rd party forward the payment.

A PITA no doubt, but people are finding it easier to rip others off anymore, that to be honest and follow thru.
Fortunately, I have never been ripped...either on Ebay or on PFF. Highly irritated once, but never ripped off.
Cliff was asking what changes we would like to see on the forum. Maybe a member rating area. Not a ratings bar like now, but one based on sales/purchases.

I've filed the same against RemixGT (Bill Proper) for taking $350 from me and not delivering the goods. I waited a year and a half and listened to his promises. The only time he would answer me was when I threatened legal action. Supposedly he is living in the Bahamas now so he is not too worried about it. But if/when he comes back to the US he will have a tough time. What a shame for only $350 when all I asked him to do was stay in touch with me, not lie to me, and make an effort to eventually pay me back.. But he couldn't, or wouldn't, do it..

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Fiero-Performance.com

Ed- It would be great if you would file. We are trying to show a "pattern" of fraud versus an isolated event. The more complaints filed, the greater the chance the USPS will do an investigation, and the higher the probability we will see our money again. It only takes about 10-15 minutes to fill out the online form. Besides, even if it doesn't work, it "feels better" to be doing something about it rather than just taking it!

Thanks,

Frank

Just a bump to see if there are any others who wish to file.

Holly patunias... You mean we actually have a "legit negative thread" for once in the history of Pennock's?

We'll see. There could be a good reason why he is not responding to us (for example, being in the hospital). But it seems unlikely since before he stopped responding he was giving different stories to different members on why they weren't receiving their parts.

As a side note, I am now pursuing filing police reports. I almost have it worked out how to do it. I am checking with my local police department on their coordination with the Green Bay Wisconsin police. Green Bay seems to be aware of this type of activity is going on in their city and know how to deal with it. Here is a link to their article on internet fraud: http://www.gbpolice.org/prev/Auction%20Fraud.pdf . It has some really good advice.

After the police report, the next step is to file a small claims lawsuit. Then, with this in hand, I plan on placing some ads in the wisconsin auto trader journals alerting fiero1969 about the pending lawsuit. This will serve serveral purposes, one, it will give legal notice of the suit. Two, it will warn others about this individuals activities. And three, it will serve to embarrass him publicly. I am also considering placing ads in his local papers (though that is a little more costly).

As you can tell, I am spending a lot of time on pursuing this. My hope is that by the end, we will have an effective method by which to pursue people who defraud us on the forum. Just knowing that we members will pursue mail fraud claims, file police reports, etc. may deter others from trying to cheat us.

Wouldn't that suck if he just died or something?

Im sure you may have thought of this....

But if it were me and somebody took my money, AND i knew where they lived....

I wont even get into it, I'll just say that afterwards they would ligitimately be able to say that the reason they cant get parts out is due to a hospital stay.

But thats just how I am with my money....

Legal action would work too.....

You may want to check with the USPS to see if mail fraud charges apply as well.

I've already checked the local obituaries for Green Bay and didn't find him listed:

http://www.greenbaynewschron.com/obit2/index.html
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/records/obits.shtml

The mail fraud angle is proceeding but I haven't gotten word back yet on whether or not the investigation will be launched.

As regards the "hospital" approach, I think I will let the law run its course. Don't think my wife would like me getting jail time over an auto parts dispute! : )

I almost bought something from him!

WOW I'm glad I never did!!

Thanks guys for posting the info!

quote Originally posted by ffindley: Ed- It would be great if you would file. We are trying to show a "pattern" of fraud versus an isolated event. The more complaints filed, the greater the chance the USPS will do an investigation, and the higher the probability we will see our money again. It only takes about 10-15 minutes to fill out the online form. Besides, even if it doesn't work, it "feels better" to be doing something about it rather than just taking it! Thanks, Frank

I'm going to give him a few more days to PM me or email me or something, then I'm filing. I like to bend over backwards (at least a little) before I accuse someone of fraud.

But my patience has worn VERY thin.

Ed

I've spent most of my working career as a fraud investigator and I have posted this information before. Hopefully more members will see this.

When you send a money order, or your cheque is cashed, there is very little chance of retrieving your money.

There is a matter of relative safety. Minimize your risk.

1. Pay through Paypal, and don't buy unless you can.
Keep printouts of the payment screens. You may need them.
2. Use your Credit Card when paying, don't debit your account
3. Check with your Credit Card service provider regarding their policy regarding Ebay and Paypal transaction fraud and whether they will assist you. If they won't, use another card.
4. Ask for shipping information, date, carrier, reference # at the time of sale.
5. Allow just 2 weeks to get your stuff.
6. File a complaint with Paypal if it doesn't arrive. They give 30 days max, to file.
7. Email the seller and tell him a complaint was filed
8. If he comes through, you can always withdraw. (not until you get the goods)
9. Contact your Credit Card service provider. In the case most Cards, they will ask some questions including if you have filed a Paypal complaint, and then send you a complaint form for you to fax back.
10. The Credit Card service provider will file a chargeback to the bank the seller used and get your money refunded by the fraudster's bank.

Unfortunately, having an investigation by Postal Investigations, and/or police will not get your money back and successful charges are very difficult to process. Believe me, I know.

It really doesn't matter who the forum member is. Treat everyone the same. It may seem heartless and untrusting, but as a seller I would prefer to have my reputation protected by a paper/computer trail and sound safe practices.

(If you are selling, get a receipt from the carrier when you ship, and send the buyer the information. Your credibility may depend on it, and if the buyer turns out to be a scammer(saying he didn't get it) you have proof you sent it.)

When filing a complaint with police, they need more than your statement. They need evidence. Print screens, keep receipts and shipping info.

Get as much personal information about the seller that you can. There are lots of sources.

(If you are selling be prepared to answer some questions to re-assure your buyer)

Good luck

Arn

Arn- That is great information! Thank you for sharing. Maybe we can get Cliff to post a link to this type of information in the mall? I saw a chat message he had about what we would like to have changed. I'll see if I can find it and request that he add it.

Ed- I felt the same way you do, but, I hate to say that I don't think waiting will do you much good. I waited over two months to give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, the history of the individual with whom we are dealing suggests that he no longer deserves this level of respect. For example, there was an incident involving his alleged passing of bad checks. Here is a link to that case in the wisconsin court records:

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=75E79C4713AFA80D4DF77342CF749A6E.render5?caseNo=2003CM000661&countyNo=5&cacheId=883C4CCBF6C2EF788CABF7C735EB8BE8&recordCount =12&o]http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=75E79C4713AFA80D4DF77342CF749A6E.render5?caseNo=2003CM000661&countyNo=5&cacheId=883C4CCBF6C2EF788CABF7C735EB8BE8&recordCoun t=12&offset=2

So, I don't really expect to get the money back which was taken from me. But, I really want to make it difficult for this person to harm others. He may be in prison right now and that may be why we aren't hearing from him. I won't know until I hear back from the authorities. But in any case, I want to make sure that these other events are part of his record. I am told that the way to do this is through the means I suggested above (fraud complaint, police reports, and civil suit). The fraud complaint only takes a few minutes, so that is why I started down that path. The police report is taking a little more time, but the authorities have been very cooperative. The civil suit will take further time and effort.

I am open to thoughts anyone has on a better way of approaching this.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by ffindley (edited 07-23-2004).]

quote Originally posted by zelemont: Im sure you may have thought of this.... But if it were me and somebody took my money, AND i knew where they lived.... I wont even get into it, I'll just say that afterwards they would ligitimately be able to say that the reason they cant get parts out is due to a hospital stay. But thats just how I am with my money.... Legal action would work too.....

that's what it is all about!

ok that was a bit emotional...

ffindley thanks for helping to protect the rest of us

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-23-2004).]

quote Originally posted by edhering: I'm going to give him a few more days to PM me or email me or something, then I'm filing. I like to bend over backwards (at least a little) before I accuse someone of fraud. But my patience has worn VERY thin. Ed

Please forgive me for being blunt here.

This is what fraud artists count on. You are a nice guy. They will run down the clock to eliminate your rights, by using up the statutory time limit for complaints.

NEVER GIVE A SUCKER AN EVEN BREAK

Do you remember this old line from Jimmy Durante?

In other words, if I offer an item for sale to you, it should be ready to ship. If I take your money, I should behave as though the goods I have belong to you, not me.

So giving him more time may be playing into his hands. Figure out the shipping time, and add 2 or 3 days for inefficiency max. In most cases, this is 2 weeks.

After that, be merciless. It is your money, not his feelings that matter.

and... good luck

Arn

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: ffindley thanks for helping to protect the rest of us

No kidding!!

Thanks everyone for the kind words and support.

We are now pursuing a new angle. A forum member suggested that fiero1969 was also selling parts on ebay under a different name and doing the same thing. I sent emails to the ebay users who bought fiero parts from the individual using the given ebay name. In it I asked if the transactions went smoothly. I have started to receive replies back that they also have not received their parts after weeks of waiting. I have asked these users to confirm that this is the same individual as fiero1969. I won't post the ebay user name here until one of them confirms that this is the same individual. I have also asked them that if it is the same individual to notify ebay immediately and start the complaint process.

That's all I have today. Thanks.

Yet another reason why I don't allow "anonymous" email addresses (like Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.) to be used when signing up. I want a person to be traceable when stuff like this happens.

That is a really good policy, Cliff. I wish that the other forums in which I participate would implement that.

In this case, we are very lucky. We know his name, social security number, drivers license number, state identification number, FBI number, place of recent employment, physical addresses used, email aliases and a ton of other information. So from that angle we are covered. The hard part is finding the time to put it all together and move it through to the proper authorities. Because of the time commitment involved, few will go through all the paces to see it to the end. It just doesn't seem worth it spend 20 to 30 hours to potentially get back $100 or so. This is the reason the same person can do it over and over again and rack up thousands of dollars in ill-gotten gains with little risk. In essence, they are counting on us not pursuing them!

As a side note, wouldn't this make an interesting thesis for an economics degree: "the economics of fraud".

Just wanted to give everyone another update on this.

A flurry of activity is finally starting to happen.

Per the request of the Green Bay police department, this Friday I filed a report with my local police. They are now in the process of determining whether or not this will be pursued via federal or local means (they weren't sure if it could be pursued both ways simultaneously). We will know for sure next week. In any case, this will be pursued either through federal law enforcement or through coordination of local law enforcement. Hopefully there will be a Green Bay officer assigned to the case in the coming two weeks (I needed to file with the local police before calling them back to get the name of the officer). In any case, if you are one of the people who was taken by fiero1969, PLEASE file a police report with your local department. Also, please PM me that you have done so. This way we can hook up all the appropriate authorities (federal and various local) so that they can coordinate activities.

I have received a confirmation email from a user at ebay that the same individual has done the same thing on ebay. According to him, the person was using the ebay user name of dlpcap. This makes sense given that the DLP are the initials of fiero1969. This person is pursuing the matter through ebay's fraud department.

I have also confirmed that the individual involved has a suspended sentence for a felony and was recently arrested and released for probation violations. That this is not an isolated event but rather appears to be a string of incidents should help get legal attention for this case.

As a final note, if you have had problems with this individual or know others who have, please let me know through PM. The police need all the help/information we can give them. Hopefully, we will have this resolved soon!

Haha! String him up, I say.

Fiero1969, you better do what's right, and quick.