Very nice write up and pictures! I have one question about the way you installed the rotors, though. Does it matter which way the slots go? I have seen them both ways. On my Fiero, I put them the opposite way, because that's the way the place I got them from recommended.

very nice write up... love the pics.

but are the rotors on wrong?
it seems the slots should be going the other way.

i just got my new rotors so i need to know before i
put them on.

thanks,
toms...

quote Originally posted by sqoach: Very nice write up and pictures! I have one question about the way you installed the rotors, though. Does it matter which way the slots go? I have seen them both ways. On my Fiero, I put them the opposite way, because that's the way the place I got them from recommended.

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: very nice write up... love the pics. but are the rotors on wrong? it seems the slots should be going the other way. i just got my new rotors so i need to know before i put them on. thanks, toms...

I installed mine according to this info. I found on Brembo rotors. If I understand it correctly then I do believe I have them installed correctly.

If anyone can prove other wise please let us know !!!!!

"The slots are angled to use the rotors’ direction of rotation to enhance their performance, which makes the rotors side-specific with left and right side rotors. Brembo Sport slotted brake rotors are sold in axle pairs and the easiest way to verify correct usage is to install the rotors on the side of the vehicle that results in the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the rotor always contacting the brake pads first."

I have since found out while this may be true for the Brembo rotors it is not the case for the ones you see on my car !!!!!

EDITED TO REMOVE LINKS:

PLEASE NOTE THAT I HAVE CONFIRMED WITH THE VENDOR THAT I PURCHASED THE ROTORS FROM THAT THE WAY YOU SEE THEM IN THE PICTURES I HAVE POSTED IN THE WRITE-UP ARE INCORRECT FOR THESE PARTICULAR ROTORS.
THE CURVED SLOTS YOU SEE ON THE ROTOR FACE SHOULD BE GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION THAN WHAT I HAVE THEM.
NOTE ** THERE ARE PICS LATER ON DOWN IN THIS POST THAT SHOWS THEM CORRECTLY INSTALLED.

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 09-10-2004).]

Nice write up!

JazzMan

Here are a few links with info on
New Rotor seasoning and Pad bedding.

http://www.baer.com/support/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=4

http://www.baer.com/support/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=5

Say, can you post a complete parts list with numbers, sources, and prices for all the stuff you bought for this project?

JazzMan

I told you earlier and I wanted to let you know again so that you DO decide to do more writeups like this: The documentation is unbelievable! After every little thing I do I wish I had taken pictures and documented more thoroughly. Seeing your car makes me want to work on my front end! Thanks again,
--Bryson

I'm still not totally sure. The links you posted are all showing vented rotors, and yes, vented rotors do have to go on a certain way. I've got an 86 with solid rotors, but I bought the drilled/slotted rotors and the directions said to put them on opposite of what you have them. However, I don't think rotors that are vented would have to have the slots going one way, and solid rotors would have them going the opposite way. Another difference is that the rotors I have, ebay rotors, the slots are curved, and the ones you have are straight. I don't think that matters either, but just pointing it out.

Also, it's pretty likely that at the speeds that a Fiero can be driven at the orientation of the slots is irrelevant.

JazzMan

What no greaseable bushing in the picture?
Nice pics.
BTW,
It is recommened to cut/trim the bump stop the same length as the lowering effect or in your case the one cut spring coil drop.
I also noticed that you did not use antisize on the caliper bolts. I did notice that loctite!
Q: Why did you not use stainless steel brake lines?
Q: What is the coefficent of friction number for the pads used?

Overall, it looks nice. Keep it going!

Most excellent write up Zoom. Tremendous attention to detail. I hope to get a look at your work in person some day. We are not too far apart. Keep going man!

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quote Originally posted by Zoom88: Here are a few links with info on New Rotor seasoning and Pad bedding. http://www.baer.com/support/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=4 http://www.baer.com/support/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=5

thanks for the references. i would of put my rotors on backwards.
on my fiero and my camaro.

are you going to do the same write up on the rear rebuild.
that's what i need to do on mine next.

thanks,
toms...

thanks for the great info!

Wow Cool. I just started working on the front of one of my 88's. Thanks.

BTW
I will have to say that the revers sloting dont make sense? I read the links but it just dont line up? If you want the gas "liquid" caused by heating the pads to get out and away from the pads why wipe it to the center of the rotor were it will creep up the face of the rotor by cintrifical force? Seems like the right way to get the stuff out and away from the pads is to throw it to the outter edge of the rotor, not the inner edge?

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-08-2004).]

Did you drop the front crossmember? What is involved in that?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Say, can you post a complete parts list with numbers, sources, and prices for all the stuff you bought for this project? JazzMan

Can't promise anything...that is one area I am not very good at is keeping up with cost and part #'s.
I can tell you I bought the inner and outer tierod ends, upper and lower ball joints and rack bushing from Rodney Dickman.
Can't hardly beat his prices on 88 parts plus you know they are going to work !!!
Rotors I purchased off Ebay...I believe I paid $160.00 for all 4 plus shipping which was around $40.00.
Brake pads are porterfield http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/cgi-bin/porterfield/pads.cgi
R4S Fiero 1988 frt AP378 $79.00 rear AP378 79.00
Rubber mounts for Steering rack I purchased from one of the local Auto Parts...probabaly Advanced Auto Parts.
Rubber control arm bushings I found by spending allot of time on the phone calling pontiac parts depts.around the states.
I have since found out that the ones used for the rear will work on the front lower control arms , I have a set and they mic out exactly the same.

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 09-07-2004).]

after reading the baer site and looking at all the cars on pro-touring.com
they all have the rotor going is what seems like reverse direction than
what i would expect.

i have the same rotors that you have so i'd be very interested in what
they have to say.

i'm also, going to run the porterfield brake pads. i found a guy on ebay
that sells them. i had to ask if he had them for the fiero and he can get
them for a little cheaper ($73.00) than porterfield website ($79.00).

toms...

Excellent writeup. Your car gets better and better all the time. I have crossdrilled and slotted Corvette rotors. They are stamped left and right so you know which side to mount them. They are opposite of what you have.

Here is a blow up of that shot and you can see the R for right stamped on the rotor.

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Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car

[This message has been edited by skitime (edited 09-07-2004).]

quote Originally posted by skitime: Excellent writeup. Your car gets better and better all the time. I have crossdrilled and slotted Corvette rotors. They are stamped left and right so you know which side to mount them. They are opposite of what you have.

Thanks for the compliments....and the rotor info. I don't know why it has to be so confusing !! They should all be the same !!!

Ok I do have confirmation from the supplier that the type of rotors I have are made to go on the opposite of what I have them in the pictures.
(They should be on the same way as the ones in the pics that Skitime posted. Thanks SKI !!!)
For anyone who has purchased these you should find a little round sticker on each rotor. It will indicate which side they go on by having either an "L" for left or an "R" for right. Left being the drivers side of the car. As I posted earlier in the thread this was the only think I wasn't really certain about during the build. I want to assure that all information is as accurate as possible.

Once I have swapped mine I will post the correct pictures.
Tom Slick if you have any further questions on the rotors or anyone has questions in general about the build feel free to Email me !!

Once again thanks for all the comments and the response !!

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 09-08-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Zoom88: Ok I do have confirmation from the supplier that the type of rotors I have are made to go on the opposite of what I have them in the pictures. (They should be on the same way as the ones in the pics that Skitime posted. Thanks SKI !!!) For anyone who has purchased these you should find a little round sticker on each rotor. It will indicate which side they go on by having either an "L" for left or an "R" for right. Left being the drivers side of the car. As I posted earlier in the thread this was the only think I wasn't really certain about during the build. I want to assure that all information is as accurate as possible. Once I have swapped mine I will post the correct pictures. Tom Slick if you have any further questions on the rotors or anyone has questions in general about the build feel free to Email me !! Once again thanks for all the comments and the response !!

Zoom,
thanks for the confirmation. i was just getting ready to ask which was the left and right side of the car
cause i went and look at my boxes and the way they are label would make it seem like skitime is correct. if the left side is the driver and the right is the passenger which you just stated.
thanks again

tom.s

Pictures of rotors now installed in the correct direction....whew !!!

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 09-09-2004).]

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I've been so frustrated with my front end rebuild I haven't even bothered to work on it lately. After putting my passenger side back together, my lower ball joint just didn't look right. The way the grease boot is compressed looked way wrong and I just knew I had a bad knucke or something. But it looks almost exactly like the one of your car.

So either mine's ok, or we're both screwed.

Actually, my biggest concern was that when I tightened the LBJ castle nut, by the time it torqued down, it was so low on the LBJ that the cotter pin doesn't contact the castle nut. I had to back the nut off some to get it to lock with the cotter pin. I'm thinking there may be too much wear there, but I'll see how it drives when I get it back together.

quote Originally posted by Zoom88: Rubber control arm bushings I found by spending allot of time on the phone calling pontiac parts depts.around the states. I have since found out that the ones used for the rear will work on the front lower control arms , I have a set and they mic out exactly the same.

Please clarify. Do you mean that the bushings used at the rear of the '88 lower control arm will fit the front of the '88 LCA?

Can you provide part numbers? A lot of '88 owners who don't want to go with polyurethane would appreciate this information. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Please clarify. Do you mean that the bushings used at the rear of the '88 lower control arm will fit the front of the '88 LCA? Can you provide part numbers? A lot of '88 owners who don't want to go with polyurethane would appreciate this information. Thanks.

I will post the numbers later this evening.

Formula88, if you have to back off the nut to get the pin to work your knuckle is no good. There should be NO wear in the tapered hole. You will never get any ball joint to work in that knuckle if it had a ball joint get loose in there. I would get a new knuckle if that were on my car. But if for some reason you got they wrong ball joint in the control arm, replace it.

I've got one of Rodney's ball joints. I guess I'll have to take the knuckle back off and re-inspect it. I thought it looked good, though. If that's the case, it could explain the mysterious clunk in my front end. I was thinking it was a worn LBJ, but it could be the knuckle.

I started a new thread about my potential knuckle woes, so as not to hijack this one.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055265.html

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 09-10-2004).]

Wow, Zoom, this is incredible. I feel like I could just yank my car apart and put it back together just like you did, thanks to this thread. Another '+' for you!

Also, AWESOME attention to detail... looks fantastic!!

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula Convertible

ON THE TOPIC OF ROTOR DIRECTION

On one of my non fiero cars, the question came up about what direction the slots should go. The problem was horribly confused because one vendor (brembo) claimed the slots should go in one direction, and another vendor (Disk Brakes Australia) claimed they should go the opposite direction. After countless emails with salesmen, I finally got directed to one of the engineers at DBA. I no longer have the email that I received from them, but the bottom line was that the SLOTS don't matter, it is the direction of the INTERNAL VANES of the vented rotor. It turns out that both companies were correct for their respective rotors, because one of the companies had the slots going opposite of the internal vanes and the other company had both in the same direction. In that same email the engineer claimed that if the internal vanes are not curved that the orientation didn't matter.

btw + for a great writeup.

the slot direction will however affect brake pad residue deposits - having them rake forwards will drag them away fromt he outside of the rotor - raked backwards will deposit them at the outside edge of the rotor.. with most pads i have seen its a non-issue

vents are the important thing to worry about direction of

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: Wow, Zoom, this is incredible. I feel like I could just yank my car apart and put it back together just like you did, thanks to this thread. Another '+' for you! Also, AWESOME attention to detail... looks fantastic!!

Thanks I appreciate the comments !!! Makes it all worth while !!!
When I swap motors and rebuild the rear I will try and do the same thing.

Oh, and what size wheels and tires are you using? I fell in love with the Konig Imagines when I first saw them and every time I see them on a Fiero, I keep thinking I'm going to have to get some. If only I could get them in 17x8 and 17x9 with the Fiero bolt pattern.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Please clarify. Do you mean that the bushings used at the rear of the '88 lower control arm will fit the front of the '88 LCA? Can you provide part numbers? A lot of '88 owners who don't want to go with polyurethane would appreciate this information. Thanks.

Sorry it took so long to get back with you.

Doing alot of research I have found an OEM rubber bushing for the 88 lower control arm that is an EXACT fit.
At some point in time GM changed there part numbers, they may have made a mistake on the listing who knows.

However I do know that most places you go on the net and enter the part number 470722 it will tell you it can't find it.
But here is the info from my order.

I purchased mine from Jim Fresard parts and service out of Royal Oak Michigan 11/23/03. Sales person was Bob Roybal. I ordered by phone 1-248-547-6100

Here are the Part numbers for the rubber bushings I used to replace on both the upper and Lower control arms.

Part number for front lower is 470722, cost for 4 - $48.32
Part number for front upper is 462980, cost for 4 - $ 47.24
shipping was - $ 8.95
Don't know how far back they keep Invoices but the number was 105177

[This message has been edited by Zoom88 (edited 09-18-2004).]

A very informative and well done bit of work, Zoom88. I was really pleased to see that an '88 front wheel bearing can be repacked. Can you give us some direction on just how you "carefully remove the dust cover" ?

David Breeze

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