You know, I'm humbled by all the nice things youall have been saying.
I'm happy that you like my car and I'm even happier that you are enjoying this thread.
I'm really proud of this car and I plan to try to bring it to as many shows this Summer as I can. I feel like everyone of you has actually helped me to build this car. You're questions, you're comments and yes, your wrong guesses have served to inspire us in this buildup.
On every car I've built on PFF, I've tried to show you as much detail as I have the time to write up. I know that very few others' go to the trouble to keep PFF members "in touch" with their project cars. Many people advocate other options, but they never get around to giving the PFF readers the kinds of detail I've been giving all along. Maybe they think that if they show you a clear picture with some detail in it, their secret will get out. I don't know, but I feel that when everyone is exposed to the details they understand a project better and are less apprehensive about the types of major modifications we do. I've been asked a lot of questions in this thread on this car and I know I'm behind on answering them. I promise that in the next few days I'l try to get caught up on my answers.
I've been asked about how much this car would cost. I'm not sure I want to know the total cost. you know everyone always has their dream car and cost is never involved while that dream is going on. Only when you wake up is when the cost factor come into play.
I just did a quick cost accounting and determined that I have at least $20K in parts at my cost and about $12K in labor. So, it wasn't cheap. But it's still cheaper than any real nice new car and it's guaranteed to get plenty of attention.
It is my hope that this will be one of the "cross-over" cars that will get the average automotive enthusiast to think of the Fiero in positive ways.
Thank You Archie
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08:33 PM
Denny Member
Posts: 1410 From: Leola, PA USA Registered: Apr 2001
archie, have you noticed the thread in the tech section about putting an lt1 intake on a older small block? got any thought on it? think it could even be turned around like you did? i'm not sure what they mean by older but for me if i use a block i have it would be a pre-86 one.
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06:31 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Philphine: archie, have you noticed the thread in the tech section about putting an lt1 intake on a older small block? got any thought on it? think it could even be turned around like you did? i'm not sure what they mean by older but for me if i use a block i have it would be a pre-86 one.
I haven't really thought much about it.... in other words, right now, I don't see a situation where I would do that. One thing for sure, is that as soon as you put a hole in the manifold to put a distributer thru, you cannot turn the manifold around like we did. The whole thing that makes the LT1 & 4 engines special, in this situation, is that there is no distributer poking up thru the intake manifold.
Actually, I read that old thread differently than you do. You stated that "LT1 intake manifold can bolt on backwards" Giving the impression that it was just turn it around and bolt on type thing. I just stated that your claim was wrong.
The only way the manifold will bolt on backward is with some heavy modifications. We did the modifications to make it work.
At the time I had posted to that thread we had already turned around an LS1 intake and already knew the mods it would take to do the LT1.
As I said, I rechecked the guinea pig engine.
With the manifold on backward, there are NO GAPS between the end rails. They don't overlap perfectly, but there are no gaps. Since there's no pressure to speak of in the valley, a little extra RTV will be quite sufficient to keep the area sealed.
Is there something I missed? What requires "heavy modifications"?
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08:50 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Will: As I said, I rechecked the guinea pig engine.
With the manifold on backward, there are NO GAPS between the end rails. They don't overlap perfectly, but there are no gaps. Since there's no pressure to speak of in the valley, a little extra RTV will be quite sufficient to keep the area sealed.
Is there something I missed? What requires "heavy modifications"?
Why does it seem like you are looking for an arguement on this? Are you trying to prove that you were the first one with this idea?
You were wrong when you said it could be turned around without modification in that other thread. I don't care if you want to put the thing on backwards without having complete seals on the ends. If you take a good look you'll see that there is 2 or 3 places where the seal area would be less than 1/8" wide. If you want to put one together and have it leak on you then go ahead.
You say there is no crankcase pressure, you're wrong again. SBC engines will generate a positive crankcase pressure of 9 to 19 inches. If you don't think that much pressure won't push out a seal then you're wrong again.
As you may know, the rear seal on the SBC (which is to the left in the picture I referenced) has a cutout for the oil pressure sender to screw into the block. (That's that little notchon the near left end of the manifold referenced above) Turn the manifold around and you'll find that the other end of the manifold has enough variation in shape that it will make it so you can't use this oil sender hole & you'll need more than a little RTV to keep it from leaking. (You'll also need another place to mount your oil pres. sender) In the Thread that you have been referencing https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-010973.html you state "Don't forget that an LT1 intake manifold can bolt on backwards" You also reference the 35th post on page 2 of that thread which includes this image The text that I wrote just above that image tells you that you were wrong when I said "Check out the Arrows.... the end seals don't match from end to end..... turn the manifold around and it may bolt on but it won't seal."
Now, Every since page 21 of this thread you've been wanting me to tell you that turning the manifold around was your idea and that I stole it from you. You were wrong in that previous thread when you said "Don't forget that an LT1 intake manifold can bolt on backwards" and that statement is still wrong today. You were shooting from the hip when you originally made that statement and you just can't let it go. You know, until now, you were the only one that noticed that I had told you that you were wrong, no one else cared either way. But you just want to keep it going until everyone here knows that you were wrong.
You know, the funny thing is that back about 18 months ago when we realized that we could reverse the intake on the LS1, we immediately checked the LT1 and found the end seals to be different shapes & let it go at that. Then about a year ago when we were discussing the plan for the build up of this car, one of my employees (Martin Mordel) talked me into going ahead and trying this idea. The funny thing is that Martin never read your comments, he isn't on the Internet, he doesn't even have a computer.
Now, I have another new LT1 at the shop and a couple extra LT1 intakes and if you'd like to argue this some more, start your own thread and I'll take some new pictures and you can argue your case there.
As far as this being your idea.... nope.
Thanks for your input.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 02-23-2002).]
Archie... i'm just curious. I am also 6'2" and my head comes pretty much up to the roof when i'm sitting up proper in the seat. How do you fit in a chop top?? Also... if you end up bringing it to Frankenmuth... can i give it a test sit? or are you going to have it roped off?
------------------ Kills: 97 Neon R/T
AIM: phool88fiero
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12:14 PM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
Originally posted by Archie: While my show schedule is not complete for this year.... I do already have "firm" plans to have this car at the following shows.
Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour May 24 thru May 30
Archie, are you planning on the long haul, or just a certain leg of the Power Tour?
From the HotRod website, the schedule has the Tour in Kansas City on the 25th of May, and in St. Louis on the 26th.
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06:24 PM
Feb 28th, 2002
CoolBlue87GT Member
Posts: 8447 From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA Registered: Apr 2001
GTFiero1 Member Posts: 171 From:camden county NJ Registered: Sep 2001 posted 11-03-2001 07:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i had this dream a couple of times. i had a low milage 88 yellow fiero. archie had just put an LS1 in it and i drive around killin all the import owners... ------------------ Adam J. B.
[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 02-28-2002).]
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09:39 AM
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
heard something that worries me a little. in traffic school sat. (yes...phil was bad) the instructor was talking about how at one time before seatbelts were more strictly enforced they would find people in accidents with no obvious injuries sitting dead in the seat.
turns out that at some point in the accident they would start to get thrown out of the seat and their head would hit the ceiling, breaking their neck. in my chopper i miss the ceiling by a little over an inch (with the sunroof down the latch brushes my head). i'd have to cinch up tight to make sure i couldn't rise out of the seat far enought to hit my head. when i mentioned it to some coworkers some thought maybe it could be even safer 'cause there wouldn't be a chance to gain momentum before my head hit the ceiling.
is it enough to scare me out of continuing the project? nope, but i can't say i'm not thinking about it. maybe i should be thinking about a race harness.
any older hotrodders ever hear anything like this from back when chop tops were more popular? or exotic/sports car circles?
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10:47 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by GOLDSE: Archie, are you planning on the long haul, or just a certain leg of the Power Tour?
From the HotRod website, the schedule has the Tour in Kansas City on the 25th of May, and in St. Louis on the 26th.
I'm planning to run the whole Tour..... hawever because of logistics, I may have to cut out the last day so that I can make it to the Dells Run in time.
I wouldn't miss the Dells Run for all the Tea in China, it's the Fiero place to be.
Archie
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12:20 PM
CoolBlue87GT Member
Posts: 8447 From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by Archie: I'm planning to run the whole Tour..... hawever because of logistics, I may have to cut out the last day so that I can make it to the Dells Run in time.
I wouldn't miss the Dells Run for all the Tea in China, it's the Fiero place to be.
Archie
Archie, What about Carlisle ? Are you going ? (May 17-19)
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02:18 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
This weekend is the Chevy-Vette Fest at McCormick Place in Chicago. I have entered the LT1 Stinger in the Show. I spend most of the day today getting the car over there and getting it set-up.
At Chevy-Vette Fest all Show cars have to be either Chevys or Other brands WITH Chevy engines. They only have one class for non-Chevys WITH Chevy engines. Of course that is the class they put me in.
I only got to look around a little bit but other cars I saw in my Class include a Fiberglass '32 Ford street rod with a BBC and 6-71 Huffer sitting between the fenders. I would say "under the hood" but it didn't have a hood because the engine was so big and all chrome. Another car in my Class is a Willys coupe with (as you can guess) a chromed out blown BBC. Because of the building 9-11 regulations we had to get our truck out of the building right away, so I didn't get to look around any better than that.
I would guess that there are 10 or 12 similar cars in my class. I'm gonna need a lot of luck to get any hardware out of this show.
Tomorrow I'll post up some pics. of the competition.
Archie
BTW, for all of those that sat in line for 4 to 6 hours to get into the WOW show. Remember when I told you how well the Chevy-Vette Fest is run? Well let me tell you now that I was 100% right. We pulled off of Lake Shore Drive at 1:30 and by 2:00 (30 minutes) we were in the building and were already setting up.
The Chevy-Vette Fest people have got it together.
Archie
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[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-01-2002).]
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10:31 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by Archie: Wish me luck, I'll need it.
At Chevy-Vette Fest all Show cars have to be either Chevys or Other brands WITH Chevy engines. They only have one class for non-Chevys WITH Chevy engines. Of course that is the class they put me in.
I only got to look around a little bit but other cars I saw in my Class include a Fiberglass '32 Ford street rod with a BBC and 6-71 Huffer sitting between the fenders. I would say "under the hood" but it didn't have a hood because the engine was so big and all chrome. Another car in my Class is a Willys coupe with (as you can guess) a chromed out blown BBC. Because of the building 9-11 regulations we had to get our truck out of the building right away, so I didn't get to look around any better than that.
I would guess that there are 10 or 12 similar cars in my class. I'm gonna need a lot of luck to get any hardware out of this show.
Tomorrow I'll post up some pics. of the competition.
Archie
Keep the faith Archie!!! That's the kind of competition I have to deal with in the Detroit area. Most of the time I'm classed in '72 to '95 All Makes, All Models, Modified (not unusual to have up to 80 cars in the class), which is pretty stiff competition!! Have only missed a trophy a couple times, which was very understandable based on the beauties that showed up.
Keep the faith Archie!!! That's the kind of competition I have to deal with in the Detroit area. Most of the time I'm classed in '72 to '95 All Makes, All Models, Modified (not unusual to have up to 80 cars in the class), which is pretty stiff competition!! Have only missed a trophy a couple times, which was very understandable based on the beauties that showed up.
Make it sparkle and enjoy the show!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks, I do feel better now.
Archie
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12:23 AM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by Archie: Why does it seem like you are looking for an arguement on this? Are you trying to prove that you were the first one with this idea?
You were wrong when you said it could be turned around without modification in that other thread. I don't care if you want to put the thing on backwards without having complete seals on the ends. If you take a good look you'll see that there is 2 or 3 places where the seal area would be less than 1/8" wide. If you want to put one together and have it leak on you then go ahead.
You say there is no crankcase pressure, you're wrong again. SBC engines will generate a positive crankcase pressure of 9 to 19 inches. If you don't think that much pressure won't push out a seal then you're wrong again.
As you may know, the rear seal on the SBC (which is to the left in the picture I referenced) has a cutout for the oil pressure sender to screw into the block. (That's that little notchon the near left end of the manifold referenced above) Turn the manifold around and you'll find that the other end of the manifold has enough variation in shape that it will make it so you can't use this oil sender hole & you'll need more than a little RTV to keep it from leaking. (You'll also need another place to mount your oil pres. sender) In the Thread that you have been referencing https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-010973.html you state "Don't forget that an LT1 intake manifold can bolt on backwards" You also reference the 35th post on page 2 of that thread which includes this image The text that I wrote just above that image tells you that you were wrong when I said "Check out the Arrows.... the end seals don't match from end to end..... turn the manifold around and it may bolt on but it won't seal."
Now, Every since page 21 of this thread you've been wanting me to tell you that turning the manifold around was your idea and that I stole it from you. You were wrong in that previous thread when you said "Don't forget that an LT1 intake manifold can bolt on backwards" and that statement is still wrong today. You were shooting from the hip when you originally made that statement and you just can't let it go. You know, until now, you were the only one that noticed that I had told you that you were wrong, no one else cared either way. But you just want to keep it going until everyone here knows that you were wrong.
You know, the funny thing is that back about 18 months ago when we realized that we could reverse the intake on the LS1, we immediately checked the LT1 and found the end seals to be different shapes & let it go at that. Then about a year ago when we were discussing the plan for the build up of this car, one of my employees (Martin Mordel) talked me into going ahead and trying this idea. The funny thing is that Martin never read your comments, he isn't on the Internet, he doesn't even have a computer.
Now, I have another new LT1 at the shop and a couple extra LT1 intakes and if you'd like to argue this some more, start your own thread and I'll take some new pictures and you can argue your case there.
As far as this being your idea.... nope.
Thanks for your input.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 02-23-2002).]
HHhhmm... Look's like *Will* has found a new person to try and argue with.. ALWAY'S!!!
Archie.... Keep up the good work, I love it!!! It's even inspiring me for some *new idea's* for the *Smooooth GT*!! Thank You for sharing your life and you Fiero's with us!!! Thread's like this is what keep me coming back to the Forum daily..LoL.. I mean hourly when not working.. LoL
Archie... What size tire's(rim's too) are you going to use on the rear, to make up the difference in the *wide* body now???? I mean to make them llook flush??? sorry so long.. Steve *Smooth*
------------------ www.thefibersmith.com Technical Support (903) 825-7744 "Smoooooth GT" Euro Rear taillight's, Shaved door handles, sidetrim, Custom-Double-side scoop's, sail scoop's, Custom 'VENTED' hood, Rustang decklid scoop, BMW Z~3 vent's, Ferrari~308 headlight cover's, Custom RE-designed Fender's, Custom made-front and rear fascia's...
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02:08 AM
KlaX Member
Posts: 611 From: Richmond, VA Registered: Feb 2002
The Chevy-Vette-Fest car show today went quite well.
This is only the 2nd. show I've ever entered where I actually cared what the Judges think of whatever car I was showing.
I think we showed pretty well (well at least ok) The Judge came around really early in the day thus, once he was done, I didn't have to clean anything the rest of the day. I did buy a California Duster and the guy who sold it to me explained the concept behind it. I might use it tomorrow. He also told me a bunch of one liner jokes about California Dusters too but I won't repeat them, 'cuz I can't remember them. He worked hard for that $10 sale.
Here is what the car looked like today.
Ok, gotta tell you about the Judging. Everytime before, whenever my car was being Judged I didn't happen to be around. This time I was there. OK, so he walks up and asks if the car is ready to be judged and I say yeah. I know we're not supposed to talk to the guy so I left him alone. So just a few minutes later he walks up to me and hands me an interior screw (a small torqs dash screw) he says, "found this on the carpet on the drivers side". I think to myself, poop, this is not going well.
Anyway, so he finishes up checking out the car and as he hands me the clipboard for me to sign off, he says "Nice car, very unique" COOL. (<~~~~ I added the COOL) Instead of just signing off on it.... I went thru and added up the number of points that had been deducted on it. I don't know how they score these things but I had a total of 34 points deducted. I think the total should be like 1000 points, so I think I have 966 points. Now I need to find out if 966 is good.
What else happened today......... Oh, I know!
Funnier than heck...... This group of 3 guys (real young 20's) walks up and this one kid acting like he knows everything about Fieros. He tells his buddies "yeah they started making Fieros in 1982 and quit making them in 1990". Then he says to me, Isn't this the 1990 Fiero?". I just started laughing.... I laughed so hard that I almost fell on the floor and started rolling around. These guys must have thought I was nuts.... When I finally re-gained some of my composure, I said that the 1990 Fiero was in CA. I then started laughing again and they just walked away, thinking I was making fun of them.
Ok, I'll give you all another report tomorrow.
Nite all.
Archie
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01:07 AM
FieroMaster88 Member
Posts: 7680 From: Mattawan, MI Registered: Nov 2000
Originally posted by Archie: I just started laughing.... I laughed so hard that I almost fell on the floor and started rolling around. These guys must have thought I was nuts.... When I finally re-gained some of my composure, I said that the 1990 Fiero was in CA. I then started laughing again and they just walked away, thinking I was making fun of them.
Some days it just has to be fun to be you, Archie!
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01:54 AM
PFF
System Bot
FXRseen Member
Posts: 182 From: Vancouver WA Registered: Feb 2002
Got a question! On the V8archy website for the new LT1 it say it has "Reversed LT1 intake manifold". Did you just turn the intake the opposite direction or do you have to do something special with it? Just wishing I could get an engine for my fiero I've been looking around different web site on crate engines and they all say that the engines are for 1975 or older cars that are off road only. Other than finding a wrecked car with a LT1 or even better a LS1. How I'm I to get a hold of one? Thanks
Funnier than heck...... This group of 3 guys (real young 20's) walks up and this one kid acting like he knows everything about Fieros. He tells his buddies "yeah they started making Fieros in 1982 and quit making them in 1990". Then he says to me, Isn't this the 1990 Fiero?". I just started laughing.... I laughed so hard that I almost fell on the floor and started rolling around. These guys must have thought I was nuts.... When I finally re-gained some of my composure, I said that the 1990 Fiero was in CA. I then started laughing again and they just walked away, thinking I was making fun of them.
Man, THAT'S FUNNY! ALL of it! I think the Stinger should do very well no matter where you show it. It is very well done and totally unique.
Thanks for sharing that, help start MY day on a lighter note!
Don't forget to post the pic of the trophy!
------------------ Have a good one!
[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 03-03-2002).]
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06:30 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
I WANT A FASTBACK!!! 
lol
ALWAY'S!!! 
