How does one go about decoding the stamped number on the engine. Example T0710CBY. I know how to decode the SBC but can't locate a source for the 2.8L especially Fieros.

I think in the case of the Fiero it doesn't really matter. There were only three engines used in the Fiero, the 2.8, the pre-DIS 2.5 and the DIS 2.5. All the 2.8s were the same across all years of the Fiero.

Now if you were looking at a mystery 2.8, for instance, the blocks are the same, the crank was balanced in '88, and all the heads were the large-valve version.

What specific info were you looking for?

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I think in the case of the Fiero it doesn't really matter. There were only three engines used in the Fiero, the 2.8, the pre-DIS 2.5 and the DIS 2.5. All the 2.8s were the same across all years of the Fiero. Now if you were looking at a mystery 2.8, for instance, the blocks are the same, the crank was balanced in '88, and all the heads were the large-valve version. What specific info were you looking for? JazzMan

According to my Haynes manual this is MOSTLY correct.

In 1988 they had two different VIN code engines, and depending on which VIN they were the head torque method was different.

For VIN W the head bolts were first torqued to 33 ft-lbs, then turned an additional 90 degrees.
For VIN S and 9, the head bolts were first torqued to 40 ft-lbs, then turned an additional 90 degrees.

They are regular head bolts but for some reason they specify angle torqueing for the '88 V6s. I'd actually be interested in knowing how to differentiate the motors, too, as I have no idea what motor I have--only that it's an '88 motor.

Ed

88 V6s are internally balanced where pre 88s are external, don't know if there are any other differences.

Thanks, I appreciate the response from all.
JazzMan - The info I am interested in is related to originality. I was asked (and also I'm interested) how to verify if the engine is the original for matching numbers. I read somewhere that the last four digits of the car's vin is also on the engine. I checked my son's 85GT and it was not the case. The four numbers on the engine did not even come close to the car's vin. So with that said, how do judges confirm originality? Or do they? Thx again.

Oscar,
The following is an excerpt from one of many shop manuals I have on GM vehicles.

All engines and transaxles are stamped with a partial Vehicle Identificatin Number. The stamping contains nine positions.

Position one is the GM car division identifier - 1=Chevrolet, 2=Pontiac, 3=Oldsmobile, 4=Buick, 6=Cadillac
Position two is the model year
Position three is the car assembly plant code
Position four through nine is the assembly plant sequential number of the car.

A few sites I looked at on the web indicated that reman engines have their own unique codes that pertain to the individual remanufacturer. The engine in your sons Fiero may be a reman engine. Hope this helps.

------------------
Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!

Frugal - Good to hear from you again. I don't get what you are explaining. I am talking about the serial # stamped on the engine block directly under the thermostat housing just before the face for the timing cover. Using what you have, how do you decipher the # I show above. Thx.

Edited to add a pic of my 87GT engine

Also have an 86 with T0507DAF and the one in the thread starter is T0710CBY. The 87 I know for sure it's the original engine. Hope someone has an answer. Hate Unsolved mysteries (no not the TV series).

[This message has been edited by rubyredfiero (edited 12-16-2004).]

It's been a while since I deciphered engine block codes, but when I did, an engine block marked T0401RY was made in the Tonowanda foundry (T) on April (04) first (01), and the RY was a four-carburetor engine with Powerglide (Can you guess what kind of engine it was?) I'm inclined to believe that everything before the last three letters refers to the location and date of manufacture of the block.

Ok, the last part of the VIN including some of the intermediate lettering is stamped on the block flange adjacent to the bellhousing of the tranny, where the same numbers are also stamped. In my experience the stampings on the cast iron of the block are barely visible and it would take some serious observation with the engine out of the car to determine the numbers.

As far as the VIN coding, only VIN 9 V6 motors were used in the Fiero, and as far as I know VIN 9 motors were not used in any other car from '85-88. In any case, the engine VIN code isn't stamped on the motor anywhere that I know of.

The blocks are the same on all the Fiero V6 motors with one very minor detail. On the '88 blocks there is a casting boss for a crank sensor, though the DIS system that a crank sensor goes with was never used on the Fiero. The rest of the differences are more internal, such as the '88 crank being fully balanced versus the '85-87 cranks requiring a counterbalanced flywheel or flexplate. Also, in '87 is when GM started using oil lead-in grooves on the crank main journals in an effort to deal with the premature rod bearing failure problems.

Externally, the Fiero 2.8 upper plenum used a sticker that said "Fiero" from '85-86, and went with the "Fiero" cast into the aluminum itself for the '87-88 year models. The '88 motor used a different EGR tube and crossover because the exhaust system is very different.

JazzMan

Oscar,
I think I understand what you are looking for now. I have a copy of the GM "P" car parts microfiche and here is some of what it says...

T0507DAF - T=Tonawanda, 0507 = May 7th, DAF=1986 2.8(173) - L44 VIN 9

T0710CBY - T=Tonawanda, 0710 = July 10th, CBY=1985 2.8(173) - L44 VIN 9

There aren't very many engine assembly codes for the 2.8 Fiero so I will list the V6 ones here.

1985 - CBX, CBY
1986 - DAF, DAH, DBN
1987 - SCN, SCP
1988 - CFC, CFD

Sorry, I was confused as to what you were looking for. Along with the engine codes, there is supposed to be a final assembly code with the data I posted earlier stamped in the block also.

------------------
Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!

[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 12-17-2004).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: As far as the VIN coding, only VIN 9 V6 motors were used in the Fiero, and as far as I know VIN 9 motors were not used in any other car from '85-88. In any case, the engine VIN code isn't stamped on the motor anywhere that I know of.

So, then, what? The guys who wrote the Haynes manual were smoking crack? (Which wouldn't surprise me at all )

I wonder why they specify that...maybe it has something to do with the gaskets. I'm going to get gaskets for an '86 and use the head bolts from the '86 motor and torque it to '86 specs so I don't have to f-ing worry about this nonsense...

Thanks JM

Ed

To all that contributed, especially Jazz and Frugal - Thanks for the input, other than the additional two digits on the 87 vin (....27...), I got what I wanted.
Ed - You have to understand that Haynes is a very general book for the DIY person willing to repair the car, mostly brakes, tune up and most R&R stuff. The book is not expensive for the content. The code W, S, and others are platforms the cars are built on. For example the W stands for Olds, Regal, Lumina, S stands for the small truck S-10 or S-15, P stands for the Fiero, N stands for Grand Am, etc, etc. The "9" is the engine not the platform. Way to much info available to explain here. I have to refer to three books when I need info, Helms, Haynes and Chilton. When I'm stuck I bother the members here on PFF. Hate to start a thread every time I have a concern. So I use all my resources, then I get help from the members. So be patient and do your homework cause there is no one book that has it all. Sometimes it's in someone's head. Again thank you for the help.
Finally I will attempt to take a pic of the area Jazz mentioned to complete the search, and add it in the next few days.

quote Originally posted by edhering: So, then, what? The guys who wrote the Haynes manual were smoking crack? (Which wouldn't surprise me at all ) I wonder why they specify that...maybe it has something to do with the gaskets. I'm going to get gaskets for an '86 and use the head bolts from the '86 motor and torque it to '86 specs so I don't have to f-ing worry about this nonsense... Thanks JM Ed

Haynes suffers from "copynpastitis" just like GM and others do. They have a fairly generic set of instructions for various procedures and such, and just rearrange the elements to make a car-specific manual much the way that GM rearranged the X-car platform to make a Fiero. If you go look at the Haynes manuals for cars with the 60° V6 motor you'll likely find the same instructions verbatim.

JazzMan