Whats better to have? I'm not crazy......SBCNS paper in ones hands!

Whats a SBCNS or SPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED VEHICLE Certifacate of Sequince is issued to 500 partcipiants per year who qualify. I got one last years because of the Northstar swap. I won't go into the details of the law but, in a nut shell: "once a person passes, no more two year smog check." Because the car is now exempt.

I had a choice of using the SBCNS paper or having the Smog rep smog my Fiero and therefor repeating the process every two years at a shop of my choice. Like I stated earier, 'I'm not crazy."

The only down side is I needed to go back the DMV and requested a change on my registration to indicate that the make of the car is SPCNS instead of PONT (the make of car). There was a 15-20 minute wait so it wasn't a problem. Now since I got the paper changed, now I need to return to the CA smog station for a one time smog....and the rest is history!

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Or you can move to Florida as we got rid of smog testing years ago, well at least in Miami.

To heck with CARB, but thats just my opinion. They won't let me mod my car like I really want, and mine isn't unique enough to qualify for exemption.

What's better to have? Property in Tennessee and Georgia so you can register there...

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Fiero-Performance.com

On Jan 2nd, how many people will be making a mad rush to thier local DMV in Caleefornia for a SB100?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 08-02-2004).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: On Jan 2nd, how many people will be making a mad rush to thier local DMV in Caleefornia for a SB100?

Depends what the req.s are. If theres anyway I can weasel in, I'll be there 4 hours before the DMV doors open.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Depends what the req.s are. If theres anyway I can weasel in, I'll be there 4 hours before the DMV doors open.

There are only 500 issued per year, you may need to do more than weasel inn, sleep out on the door steps the night before, hehehe.

What type of engine do you have? They will ask you a few question, such as: What type of modification?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: There are only 500 issued per year, you may need to do more than weasel inn, sleep out on the door steps the night before, hehehe. What type of engine do you have? They will ask you a few question, such as: What type of modification?

Ahh, the usual deal. I probably don't qualify. Lots of little mods, and the 3.4 pushrod swap. Nothing too spectacular (in the eyes of the DMV anyway).

Dont have to pass all of that here in Missouri either, and Arkansas did away with inspection altogether.
Brad

Whats Emmisions testing??? we havent had that since 96 here in SC but that also makes it where all the rednecks around here can drive there 73 fod pickup that has all but 1 panel held on w/ superglue and duct tape and the rest of the truck is rusted away... theres no floor boards and the bed has no tailgate... meh... atleast i can drive my fiero whenever i like and not have to worry about getting it smog tested...

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk www.XoticRydz.tk

Four days left for the mad rush to the DMV offfice again. Hmmm...didn't know this thread was still running, sorry.

boy, id get one of those if i could, but my car is basicly stock, so no chance in that.

Yet another reason to stay away from the west coast....................

You're Killing me Roger.... The west coast does have some perks.

One thing that you need to think about is car insurance. An SPCN is not the same as Pontiac, in most insurers do not like SPCNs. I know this because I having been driving a kit car for the past 10 years. The upside is that you can get show car insurance with some places. Show car insurance is nice for old cars that have lots of goodies invested into them. For instance, I have a set pay out for my kit car. If my car were to be totaled, I know how much they will give me. I do not have to worry about my insurance company coming back to me with $500 for a VW bug, when my car appraised for $8500. Some companies have milage limitations and others do not. Shop around. There are some other benefits like you do not have to have bumpers. The big problem for you is getting the state to classify your Fiero as a SPCN.

The law clearly states that "does not resemble the original make of the vehicle".

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc580.htm

Good luck,
ShaneW

I would go for passing smog as there are less restrictions. I don't know how difficult it is to pass in California though. Once my computer was hooked up right my 4.9 passed Texas emission pretty easily.

And you might want to wait until January 3rd to line up as the 2nd is a Sunday.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-23-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Brastic: The big problem for you is getting the state to classify your Fiero as a SPCN. The law clearly states that "does not resemble the original make of the vehicle". http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc580.htm Good luck, ShaneW

One good reason for a chop, molds (vents), and engine swap. I'd bet the Plasma would pass in CA. It doesn't look like a Fiero.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 12-23-2004).]

Let me ask this. As far as I know, there is no way to turbo a Fiero and get it to pass a smog inspection. now lets say, I did enough body mods to my car to qualify it for a special construction car. Would I then be able to put a turbo on a 2.8, 3.4, 3.8? Or would I still not be able to because none of those ever came with turbos?

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: Let me ask this. As far as I know, there is no way to turbo a Fiero and get it to pass a smog inspection. now lets say, I did enough body mods to my car to qualify it for a special construction car. Would I then be able to put a turbo on a 2.8, 3.4, 3.8? Or would I still not be able to because none of those ever came with turbos?

There no legal way it will pass on a 2.8. Due to the engine not having a factory turbo. The 3800 won't pass either with a turbo but, it would with the stock super charger. I don't know about the 3.4? If it came from the factory w/turbo, then it no doubt would pass. I'm only reffering to CA smog rules not the other 49 states.

There was a turbo 3800 in a Olds Grand National in the 80s. Not easy to find, though.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: There was a turbo 3800 in a Olds Grand National in the 80s. Not easy to find, though.

That won't work either due to the engine being older than 84-88 Fiero. The engine must be the dame year or newer in order for CA reps to okay the car. Yes, another hurdle one must over-come in CA.

Hummm, maybe I didn't explain what I meant well enough in my last post.

What I meant was, if my car was to the point where Calif excepted it as a specially constructed vehicle, I would then be exempt, and not have to take my car in to get smogged every two years correct? What then is keeping me from doing any kind of engine swap I choose to do after that?

I appreceate the info. These Calif laws seem so easy to misinterpret.

Don't know for sure there. I don't know all the details about the special vehicles permit. Curly might know, and if he doesn't, TK probably does. He did a lot of research on CA smog laws. As far as I understand it, if you get the special vehicles permit, you're off the hook for smog checks and what not.

I talked to BAR about this a little (SBCNS) but since it wasn't part of my goal I didn't drill into it much.

The engineer did say that switching/modifying body panels didn't really qualify (something about frame and drivetrain) but they recognized that the rule wasn't applied all that evenly. The conversation was left with "if you can pull it off, great...." We went back to discussing engine conversions.

TK

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: Hummm, maybe I didn't explain what I meant well enough in my last post. What I meant was, if my car was to the point where Calif excepted it as a specially constructed vehicle, I would then be exempt, and not have to take my car in to get smogged every two years correct? What then is keeping me from doing any kind of engine swap I choose to do after that? I appreceate the info. These Calif laws seem so easy to misinterpret.

Correct. You're off the hook! No need for a 2 year smog check every other two years. This is perhaps the single most important factor for me. With 4-5 cars, having one of them off the books or smog exempt is great! It also is good for the person you sell the car to. The car remains "exempt."

I guess the other benifit would be....changing or adding items that would have not passed under a regular "Visual" smog check. Examples: Super charger or turbo or changing over from a N* auto to a 5-speed N*. However, the bad part about it if one is caught racing. You would have to remove it back to the original state it was in at the time it had passed.

The is really no hardened rules on what qualifies as a kit. They can make it very hard for anyone not to pass or to recieve the Kit car exempt pass. The easies thing to do is. get the fastest motor/trans combo from a production car and go for it! Thats what Orville did. He got the LT1 and LS1. Although his isn't exempt cars......just the passing of the swap.

Hummm. Now I'm pretty confused.

I went to my parents house yesterday for Christmas. I was talking to my dad about this. He built (2) 427 Cobras when I was growing up. At this time I was not interested in cars at all, so I didn't pay much attention to his work. He said that after he registered his first car as a Specialty car, he still had to smog it every two years to the specifications of the year of the motor. Now granted, this was quite a while ago. Probably mid to late 80's and into the early 90's on his second.

But anyways, this is quite a bit different. Have the rules changed since then? Not trying to question you at all man, just trying to clarify. They seem to make it so damn confusing and hard to get clear information.

Another thing my dad said people were doing when he had his cars, was getting some kind of letter from the state of Arkansas stating that their car was from their state. Then they could register it here in Calif as an exempt car. For example, someone with a 1965 model Cobra kit would have arkansas send them a letter stating their car was from Arkansas prior to 1972 (when Arkansas first started their DMV) then they would turn that letter in to the Calif DMV and it would be exempt because it was older than 25 yrs (or whatever they state it is now). Of course that would not work for our cars because they are newer than the start of Arkansas DMV in 1972, but you guys get the jist of it. (Thought that was kind of interesting)

One more thing I saw while I was there. Looked out their backyard which overlooks the whole east half of the town they live in, and right below their house, in a culdesac not a 1/4 mile away, I see 4 or 5 Fieros sitting there. Dad then tells me he has a couple more in the garage. Sounds like a Fiero enthusiast to me. Next time I go by there, maybe I'll stop and see if there home.

Here's a copy of the law pertaining to spcns:

BILL NUMBER: SB 100 CHAPTERED

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

SB 100, Johannessen. Emission control: specially constructed
vehicles.
Existing law defines a specially constructed vehicle as a vehicle
that is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed
by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer, and requires all
specially constructed vehicles to be subject to the emission control
system testing and certification requirements established by the
Department of Consumer Affairs.
This bill would require a passenger vehicle or pickup truck that
is a specially constructed vehicle to be inspected by stations
authorized to perform referee functions, as prescribed, and would
require the Department of Motor Vehicles to provide an initial
registration to no more than the first 500 vehicles that meet the
specified criteria and are presented to the department each year for
registration. Upon completion of the inspection, the referee would
be required to affix a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and to
issue a certificate that establishes the engine model-year and
emission control system application.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 44017.4 is added to the Health and Safety Code,
to read:
44017.4. (a) Upon initial registration with the Department of
Motor Vehicles, a passenger vehicle or pickup truck that is a
specially constructed vehicle, as defined in Section 580 of the
Vehicle Code, shall be inspected by stations authorized to perform
referee functions. This inspection shall be for the purposes of
determining the engine model-year used in the vehicle or the vehicle
model-year, and the emission control system application. The owner
shall have the option to choose whether the inspection is based on
the engine model-year used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year.

(1) In determining the engine model-year, the referee shall
compare the engine to engines of the era that the engine most closely
resembles. The referee shall assign the 1960 model-year to the
engine in any specially constructed vehicle that does not
sufficiently resemble a previously manufactured engine. The referee
shall require only those emission control systems that are applicable
to the established engine model-year and that the engine reasonably
accommodates in its present form.
(2) In determining the vehicle model-year, the referee shall
compare the vehicle to vehicles of the era that the vehicle most
closely resembles. The referee shall assign the 1960 model-year to
any specially constructed vehicle that does not sufficiently resemble
a previously manufactured vehicle. The referee shall require only
those emission control systems that are applicable to the established
model-year and that the vehicle reasonably accommodates in its
present form.
(b) Upon the completion of the inspection, the referee shall affix
a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and issue a certificate that
establishes the engine model-year or the vehicle model-year, and the
emission control system application.
(c) The Department of Motor Vehicles shall annually provide an
initial registration to no more than the first 500 vehicles that meet
the criteria described in subdivision (a) that are presented to that
department for registration.

A "specially constructed vehicle" is defined as "a vehicle
which is built for private use, not for resale, and is not
constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer.
A specially constructed vehicle may be built from (1) a
kit; (2) new or used, or a combination of new and used; or
(3) a vehicle reported for dismantling. . . which, when
reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the
vehicle dismantled. A specially constructed vehicle is not
a vehicle which has been repaired or restored to its
original design by replacing parts." (Vehicle Code Sec.
580)

Note that after getting the spcns designation you get to choose whether the car will be smogged according to
the standards for vehicle year or engine year. The referee also has the option of classifying the car as older
than 30 years and therfore smog testing exempt.

Orville

quote Originally posted by madcurl: There are only 500 issued per year, you may need to do more than weasel inn, sleep out on the door steps the night before, hehehe. What type of engine do you have? They will ask you a few question, such as: What type of modification?

Well, he did say January 2nd, and since that's a Sunday, he will be getting there a day early.

OK, I was browsing around the DMV website and found most of the information Orville posted. Thanks for that BTW.

One thing I didn't see that Orville posted was this:

"The owner shall have the option to choose whether the inspection is based on
the engine model-year used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year."

Now it seems to me that the only way to get the smog exempt for our cars is to have the BAR refs classify them as 1960 cars.
Obviously with a N* motor, they are not going to clasify it as a 1960.
And with the car being previously registered as a 84-88 Fiero, how is this going to be posible?

Do we remove all VIN numbers, not tell the refs what the car was derived from? Don't ask, don't tell? How does this work?

If they see that our cars were originally Fieros, will they immediately classify them as the year of the car again before they give them the special construction cert, thereby forcing us to get them smogged every other year even though they are Specially constructed Vehicles?

What are your plans Madcurl? Do you plan on going in and not telling them it used to be a Fiero? Are you going to choose to have them go by the motor or the car?

Sorry for askin so many questions guys, just trying to clarify this as much as I can for myself. Thanks for all the info.

BTW, here is a link I found on the DMV site that gives some good info.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm

Rick

Rick,
Look again, it's in my post.

The procedure to classify your car as a spcns is as follows:
First take it to the DMV. They'll check to see if an application is available. If there is, they'll
look at the car to see if it's sufficiently unique to to qualify. Although the decision is somewhat
subjective, I don't think they much care. Problem is, the AH's (pardon me, TK) at the Bureau of
automotive Repair in Sacramento will intrude, and their object will be to reject it.
If the car is accepted, You'll be directed to the local CHP office where an officer will strip the
car of all existing VIN #'s and rivet to the door frame a new, special spcns #.
Finally, you make an appointment with the local CARB referee and see what happens. Lots a luck.

I've been through the process. Everything went well until the Carb appointment. The referee (as
they always do) immediately called the BAR Sacramento office, where one of the "mad hatters"
who decide these things, told the ref to process my car using the old, destroyed, no longer valid
VIN #! They absolutely refused to accept my car as a spcns as it was already designated by the
DMV and the CHP.

This silliness was resolved, favorably for me, only after I enlisted the help of the state senator for
my district.

Orville

quote Originally posted by Orville: If the car is accepted, You'll be directed to the local CHP office where an officer will strip the car of all existing VIN #'s and rivet to the door frame a new, special spcns #. Finally, you make an appointment with the local CARB referee and see what happens. Lots a luck. Orville

Ok now that makes more sense to me. I did not know that is what happens to your VIN #'s. I was thinking they might still be on the car, which would obviously show it as a Fiero. Call me dense, but this is pretty much the first time I have really looked into this to figure out the way it works.

But this gives me hope. I hate the way they control emmisions in Calif. I whole heartedly agree with keeping clean vehicles out there, but not to the extent they do now. This seems to give us a little more choice as to what we can do to our cars.

Thanks for all the explanations guys.

madcurl, let me know how everything goes for you.

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: If they see that our cars were originally Fieros, will they immediately classify them as the year of the car again before they give them the special construction cert, thereby forcing us to get them smogged every other year even though they are Specially constructed Vehicles? What are your plans Madcurl? Do you plan on going in and not telling them it used to be a Fiero? Are you going to choose to have them go by the motor or the car? Sorry for askin so many questions guys, just trying to clarify this as much as I can for myself. Thanks for all the info. BTW, here is a link I found on the DMV site that gives some good info. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm Rick

I'm going in with the same story as before. I'll request to be signed up for the special req. You'll need your registration from your car and other items as you would normally need. So in part, your questions regarding, "do you plan on telling them it used to be a Fiero" is already stated in the paper work. They may ask you why your car qualifies for the special reg? Bring a picture..it's worth a 1,000 words.

Thats what I did, along with various work performed on the car. Having Archie's, D1S cost and various parts performed on the Fiero smooths things over IMO, thus making it easy for a non-headache situation. The DMV office personal did want to look at the car. They did so by looking right through the window. The pic I had in my hand matched the car in the parking lot.

My situation was a little different vs. Orvills. I did not need to change the plates, I.D.'s. Nor did I have to write to elected officials. However, the outcome was pretty much the same.......hoops and more hoops you'll have to jump throw to get what you want. IMO I would steer clear of the one located in Bakersfield (BAK). I have found that the guy there is un-helpful, rude, and he thinks he's a false god. I went to the Bay Area and my issues were resolved. Had I fought with BAK, I'd have new plates, I.D.'s and every CHP looking under my car.

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: OK, I was browsing around the DMV website and found most of the information Orville posted. Thanks for that BTW. One thing I didn't see that Orville posted was this: "The owner shall have the option to choose whether the inspection is based on the engine model-year used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year." Now it seems to me that the only way to get the smog exempt for our cars is to have the BAR refs classify them as 1960 cars. Obviously with a N* motor, they are not going to clasify it as a 1960. And with the car being previously registered as a 84-88 Fiero, how is this going to be posible? Rick

Correct. Only if it's the same year or a newer motor vs. the old one. Example: If it's a Northstar motor, the lay-out or example is simple. I'm sure on other motors because I don't have one. If you pass go, by the DMV, you'll recieve a special papers in the mail less than 3-4 weeks. Once you recive the papers...hold on to them as-if they were gold! You'll need this once you come back to the smog rep shop.

Once there, you'll have the choice of either going for the 2-year smog or smog exempt. All smog rep shops don't have to direct you nor tell you of these little things.

WORDS OF CAUTION: If one shop gives you the run-around........go to the next one. Do not bad mouth about the previous smog shop....they ALL talk to each other. As Oville stated, they will call the Mother ship for back-up.

I only know of one other person with a SBC Fiero who like-wise recived a exempt papers on his car. His Fiero is a re-body Ferrari. Likewise he too didn't have to remove the vehicals I.D.'s or plates. The Ferrari, Orvill's, and mine visually are different. So if the DMV decide to want a pic at your car.....make sure it doesn't resemble a Fiero 100%.

Did anyone read the latest Kit Kar mag? They were discussing kit car registration and hurdles one has to jump over. And I thought CA was crazy!

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Dont have to pass all of that here in Missouri either, and Arkansas did away with inspection altogether. Brad

NOT TRUE!
St Louis county has smog checks
and Kansas City is thinking about it.

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_{Buddy Craigg - there are two "G"s in my last name
Ling = 84SE-Modified
Julia C = 85GT stock (kinda)
Ivy = 67 Pontiac Catalina
KCFOG}