darth, i still have that computer and am extremely interested in seeing if your chip works. Pm me if you want details. Thanks!

BTW, if that engine weight is correct, which i dont think that it is because the northstar even weighs less, then once oyu add the adapter plate and related stuff for the SBC to fit in a fiero it is about equal.

One thing i'd like to add to this thread and discussion about this swap is about the Isuzu;
The Isuzu has a bad spacing between 1st and second gear which allows rpms to drop a lot. This isn't such an issue with a very torquey motor such as a SBC or 3800 sc but, i'd bet, you're really going to find it to be bad with a 3.4 DOHC motor. It's important to keep a reving motor in it's powerband and i'd bet the Isuzu would be a liability with this motor.
Not a flame or anything just thinking and thought i'd share my thoughts.

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Activities Director N.I.F.E.

www.fierofocus.com

Can't wait, got 3/4 of my harness today, should have the rest tomorrow. Thanks Erik!

I agree with the isuzu. The 4 munci speed should be best suited for this motor. 4:10 or 3.65

I think the Getrag is the best suited for it. It has a very low first gear (not as low as the 4.10 but still low), it has the best gear spacing, it's the strongest, and it has the 5th gear for mileage. Just my opinion though.

You know, its really starting to scare me with all of the people that are doing this swap lately, they all think that its just the perfect little motor for this car and everything will be jim-dandy when it goes in... well I have news for you! This motor is an easy fit because of the ability to use the stock mounts but I have yet to see a dogbone that i really like. Its difficult to come up with one. Also it should be noted that the front side shock-absorber mount cant be used. The ac lines almost have to be custom made, although apparently the 4 cylinder ones will work but you have to re-locate the coils. The heater lines, fuel lines, and coolent lines all have to be custom. The brake booster line and thorottle lines also have to be custom. Im not sure that there is anyone besides Darth that has gotten the cruise controll to work with this motor but it prolly took him lots of time to get it working right. The wiring will be a pain for anyone that is impatient. The main motor mount needs a section hacked off of it that surely reduces its strength. The motor weighs alot apparently. The cams arnt keyed or marked so when you change the belt (which should be done every 30-40 thousand miles) you need to have a set of hold down tools to change it so your cam timign stay accurate. In the Fiero, changing the timing belt will proove to be difficult because the cover is partially blocked by the strut tower. The spark plugs get water in them and you must make a cover to prevent it from happening. The spark plugs are really hard to change in the front of the motor. Changing and checking the oil is a b***h because the oil fill and the oil dipstick is on the wrong side of the motor. The distributor plug tends to leak oil. The earlier motors tend to randomly stall. The aftermarket for these motors sucks, and when you do find an aftermarket they really charge alot. There are no aftermarket cams for this motor. Making the exhaust work in a fiero is very difficult and time consuming. the stock tach doesnt read high enough for this motor. Finding someone in the fiero community or in your community at all to work on the car may be difficult. the list goes on and on..... and by the way, cam timing will gain you 25 horsepower and you'll scarifice low end for top end.

(edited because I cant spell)

[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 10-20-2004).]

Jeeze.... got something against this motor or something?
The dogbone can be made easily from a V6 mount, and a "ultamate" dogbone, just one cut, and a little welding.
Its not hard to find 87-88 4cyl AC lines, the junk yards are littered with 4cyls
The early year coils work right where they're at
An 87-88 car just needs the one heater hose ran across the bay, which is very easy with a little steel tube when the engine is out, the fuel lines are the same, though you can actualy make a very nice fit using 2 V6 feed lines, and V6 return, just couple the two feeds, and attatch the both to the frame.
Coolant lines can easily be done with flex hoses, or there are molded hoses that fit too
a ??-88 4cyl throttle cable fits perfectly if you chop off the second cable stop
the brake booster is simply 1/2 vaccum line, easily routed with the engine out,
I dont know about the cruise, I never used it before, so its not a priority for me,
Wiring is basicaly connecting wire a to wire b, and most are just guages, so if you screw up, its easily solved.
The motor weighs very close to the 2.8, the front engine mount is mostly just exposed to vertical stresses, so taking out a small section of the 3/16 steel that helps horizontal support isnt going to hurt much.
You dont need hold down tools to change the belt, set it to TDC, mark the cams, though they should be already, and change it, just make sure the cams are in the same spot when you put the new belt on. and I can easily change it even in my 88.
The plugs gathering water simply needs the factory weather strip or something simular, they are easy enough to change, but you do have to snap the solid plastic in the plug wires, I'll give you that, but its not determental to thier performance
Changing oil is a breeze if you have a funnel with a hose on it, and just bend the dipstick to the side of the motor while you have it out.
Ive never had my 93 motor stall, even with an auto chip in it, though I have heard of it, so I'll give you that too.
My exuast only cost me $100 to have installed, I handed the guy the stock DOHC down pipe, and a muffler, he took care of the rest
True there is very little aftermarket, but it doesnt need much improvement in my opinon, true its not a lamborgini engine, but its still a lot better than any other stock NA V6 ive driven.
The tach I agree completely on, but Ive got my eye on a turbo sunbird tach, once I figure out what to do with the boost guage.

Im not starting a fight, but it seems most of my personal experiences contradict many of you're main points

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: You know, its really starting to scare me with all of the people that are doing this swap lately, they all think that its just the perfect little motor for this car and everything will be jim-dandy when it goes in... well I have news for you! This motor is an easy fit because of the ability to use the stock mounts but I have yet to see a dogbone that i really like. Its difficult to come up with one. Also it should be noted that the front side shock-absorber mount cant be used. The ac lines almost have to be custom made, although apparently the 4 cylinder ones will work but you have to re-locate the coils. The heater lines, fuel lines, and coolent lines all have to be custom. The brake booster line and thorottle lines also have to be custom. Im not sure that there is anyone besides Darth that has gotten the cruise controll to work with this motor but it prolly took him lots of time to get it working right. The wiring will be a pain for anyone that is impatient. The main motor mount needs a section hacked off of it that surely reduces its strength. The motor weighs alot apparently. The cams arnt keyed or marked so when you change the belt (which should be done every 30-40 thousand miles) you need to have a set of hold down tools to change it so your cam timign stay accurate. In the Fiero, changing the timing belt will proove to be difficult because the cover is partially blocked by the strut tower. The spark plugs get water in them and you must make a cover to prevent it from happening. The spark plugs are really hard to change in the front of the motor. Changing and checking the oil is a b***h because the oil fill and the oil dipstick is on the wrong side of the motor. The distributor plug tends to leak oil. The earlier motors tend to randomly stall. The aftermarket for these motors sucks, and when you do find an aftermarket they really charge alot. There are no aftermarket cams for this motor. Making the exhaust work in a fiero is very difficult and time consuming. the stock tach doesnt read high enough for this motor. Finding someone in the fiero community or in your community at all to work on the car may be difficult. the list goes on and on..... and by the way, cam timing will gain you 25 horsepower and you'll scarifice low end for top end. (edited because I cant spell)

Most of this is common engine swap stuff... Did you expect it to screw in like it belonger there? Go try a Northstar... The TDC IS a bolt-in swap by comparison--no welding required.
Mounts... it practically bolts in. It took me half an hour with an angle grinder to make the stock V6 L mount work with a TDC long block I recently acquired.
fuel lines, coolant hoses, heater lines, throttle cable, A/C lines, brake booster... ALL of that is the stuff that EVERYONE has to take care of in an engine swap. Nothing special about the TDC...
The factory spark plug boots are o-ringed inside the cam covers. They don't get water in them. Besides, water evaporates when the engine gets warm.
Oil hard to check and fill? Go try a Northstar... or any other engine designed to be installed transversely in the front of a car. I have to pour my oil in through the PCV grommet since the N* oil fill is right under the right decklid hinge...
If the dizzy plug leaks oil, REPLACE THE O-RING. That's a problem that goes clear back to the 2.8...
There's no reason the '87 and older Fiero cruise shouldn't work, as that's completely separate from the ECM...

------------------
Turn the key and feel the engine shake the whole car with its lope; Plant the gas pedal and feel in your chest neither a shriek nor a wail but a bellowing roar; Lift and be pushed into the harness by compression braking that only comes from the biggest cylinders while listening to music of pops and gurgles. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none of them are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-20-2004).]

yes its an engine conversion - of course there are going to be custom hoses and wiring
but the TDC requires the least of any swap short of the ohv 3.4 and possbily the 3100sfi

WOW! What's with all the negative energy .

Regarding the cruise control. The Fiero uses a stand alone cruise control system and takes the PPM feed from the speedometer. So, if your speedo is functioning properly, the only thing that should have to be done to make it function (that I can see) is to find a way to hook the cruise control throttle cable to the DOHC throttle body and run a vacuum source to the vacuum canister. Seems pretty straight forward. Am I missing something?

Roy

you know Will i thought you were making some very insightful comments right up until you said water does not get into the spark plug holes and even if it did it will evaporate. that is a really ignorant comment amd shows you don't know anything about this engine. every sight on the web about this swap warns about water in the front holes, i've had it happen to me and i warned fieromadman who still learned the hard way. i normally sit enjoy watching you guys throw around bad info but i can't sit back and let all the new swappers learn the hard way. next thing you know every one will think it's a crappy motor because it never runs right because of the water. some more fair warning for those who want this engine, i've noticed some people on here offering to do the conversion for a price when the truth is they tried selling their car on ebay advertising "no electrical gremmlins" and then when it didn't sell they came to pennocks crying about how they had a water temp code and insisted that the diagrams in the factory service manual were wrong. i personally wouldn't pay someone for this swap, it's too easy and it sounds like the wiring harnesses being sold don't work anyway so you'll end up troubleshooting someone elses work instead of your own, doesn't sound fun.

Although Joshua pretty much covered what I'm going to say; Jeff/fieromadman's point for posting what he did was to warn people who are interested in this swap of the bad things they will encounter. Joshua did this on page two of this thread as well. The point being that many people post the good about these swaps but never the bad/things to look out for. Personally I think this is invaluable info for anyone considering this swap. If someone like Jeff and Joshua post the bad/troubles they had with this swap then anyone wanting to do it is far more informed about what they're getting into. That's good solid info not a knock against the swap.
Keep in mind that both of these guys have this motor in their cars and enjoy it. Giving the rest of us that don't have it yet a heads up on what to watch out for is a good thing I think.

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: I have yet to see a dogbone that i really like. Its difficult to come up with one. Also it should be noted that the front side shock-absorber mount cant be used. The ac lines almost have to be custom made, although apparently the 4 cylinder ones will work but you have to re-locate the coils. The heater lines, fuel lines, and coolent lines all have to be custom. The brake booster line and thorottle lines also have to be custom. Im not sure that there is anyone besides Darth that has gotten the cruise controll to work with this motor but it prolly took him lots of time to get it working right. The wiring will be a pain for anyone that is impatient. The main motor mount needs a section hacked off of it that surely reduces its strength. The motor weighs alot apparently. The cams arnt keyed or marked so when you change the belt (which should be done every 30-40 thousand miles) you need to have a set of hold down tools to change it so your cam timign stay accurate. In the Fiero, changing the timing belt will proove to be difficult because the cover is partially blocked by the strut tower. The spark plugs get water in them and you must make a cover to prevent it from happening. The spark plugs are really hard to change in the front of the motor. Changing and checking the oil is a b***h because the oil fill and the oil dipstick is on the wrong side of the motor. The distributor plug tends to leak oil. The earlier motors tend to randomly stall. The aftermarket for these motors sucks, and when you do find an aftermarket they really charge alot. There are no aftermarket cams for this motor. Making the exhaust work in a fiero is very difficult and time consuming. the stock tach doesnt read high enough for this motor. Finding someone in the fiero community or in your community at all to work on the car may be difficult. the list goes on and on..... and by the way, cam timing will gain you 25 horsepower and you'll scarifice low end for top end. (edited because I cant spell)

you didn't like this dogbone?

quote Originally posted by YellowArtero:

front side shock obsorber int he fiero absolutely blows.. its horrible.. you are much better off doing something else anyways..

already have 4cyl ac lines - but plumbing is a downfall of any swap

cruise control is just a matter of attaching the cable to the throttle

yes wiring is a pain - no matter what swap you do

main mount for a v6 does - but for a 4cyl swap you have to fab up a bracket - about half an hour of time if you are handy

cams hold downs aren'y absolutely necessary - other instructions include using vicegrips to hold them together before removing the old belt

the stock fiero has a problem with the spark plugs getting water in them - the tdc atleast has a boot covering it that can be sealed using some rtv when installing the wires - makes it better than stock fiero , but same as the fiero for plug changing difficulty - you just need the right tools

distributor plug would be a maintanance issue - same for all 60* v6's

checking oil should be the same if you bend the guide tube or use a modified fiero dipstick and tube

exhaust work difficulty is relative to how you want to run it - its only as difficult as you make it

stock tachometer is as much an issue as the stock speedometer, atleast for anyone without a 120mph speedo
easily solved with new guages faces or cluster swap..

yes the aftermarket sucks - but if i wanted a huge aftermarket i would have bought a 3.8sc

I'm the only one that works on my car as i'm sure is the case for many fiero people

-- most of what you said is important for a potential swapper to know but its not engine specific - it should be common sense for all engine swaps

-- i think you are just trying to scare others away from it so you can be more unique ;p (can't say I blaim you)

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: you know Will i thought you were making some very insightful comments right up until you said water does not get into the spark plug holes and even if it did it will evaporate. that is a really ignorant comment amd shows you don't know anything about this engine. every sight on the web about this swap warns about water in the front holes, i've had it happen to me and i warned fieromadman who still learned the hard way. i normally sit enjoy watching you guys throw around bad info but i can't sit back and let all the new swappers learn the hard way. next thing you know every one will think it's a crappy motor because it never runs right because of the water. some more fair warning for those who want this engine, i've noticed some people on here offering to do the conversion for a price when the truth is they tried selling their car on ebay advertising "no electrical gremmlins" and then when it didn't sell they came to pennocks crying about how they had a water temp code and insisted that the diagrams in the factory service manual were wrong. i personally wouldn't pay someone for this swap, it's too easy and it sounds like the wiring harnesses being sold don't work anyway so you'll end up troubleshooting someone elses work instead of your own, doesn't sound fun.

Just because I haven't had it in the car yet doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. I've torn mine down to the short block just to see what makes it tick. It's in rough shape, so I'm gonna be rebuilding it as a 3.1 destroker. How far apart have you had yours?
Anyway, I saw the o-rings and @$$-umed that they worked. Silly me. Maybe they need replacement or slight re-engineering.
Anyway, in general sealing the plug wells on a DOHC engine isn't that hard. Never had the water in plug wells issue with the N*.

------------------
Turn the key and feel the engine shake the whole car with its lope; Plant the gas pedal and feel in your chest neither a shriek nor a wail but a bellowing roar; Lift and be pushed into the harness by compression braking that only comes from the biggest cylinders while listening to music of pops and gurgles. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none of them are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-20-2004).]

This is my dogbone solution. ruddy big plate bolted to the tranny bolts and a short connector to a mount on the trunk wall:

Also Will stated that the plug boots have rubber gromets on them that would seal the plug socket and stop water getting in. While that may be true, since others have suffered from water in the plugs I guess I'm going to cover mine somehow, better safe than sorry.

------------------
Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com
Visit the NC Fieros website at TarheelFieros.org

I had to deal with the water in the spark plug holes too, water puddling ontop of the valve cover, witch has a valley thats higher then the top of the holes. The water just found a spot to go. The most common solution is to put a rubber strip across the bottom of the decklid to the bottom of the window. Im prodding Darth to get a chip made that will utilize the 1227730 computer witch with some moderate modifications fits in the fiero pretty dam easily. It makes wiring about 3X easier because you only have to modify a stock V6 Fiero harness moderatly.

Stock 4cyl or V-6 throttle cable works fine. Dogbone is easy to set up. Fuel lines are straight forward with some 5/16 and 3/8 brakeline. Flex line for coolant. I don't see the difficulty?? The engine going into the engine bay and working was the easy part. I had Erik do the wiring just because he has done it and now I have a profesional looking wiring harness that works. Water in the front plugs is easily solved with a small rubber strip on the decklid.

If I would have read that before doing the swap I would never have done it, but I found it pretty easy?

I asked this in another thread, but will ask here too. Has anyone done this swap using the 3.65 4 spd? Is it a good match? Ideally, I would like the getrag, but the tranny in my Fiero is the 4 spd. The getrags aren't real easy to find, and they're usually not cheap. I would like to stay under 2 grand if I do this swap. Most of the stuff I can probably do myself, or have done relatively cheap.

I will tell you in a few days, my swap is done but not on the road. I'm using a 4 speed 3.65

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Water in the front plugs is easily solved with a small rubber strip on the decklid.

No, because what happens if you open the decklid when there is rain drops on it? Josh Riedl knows what i am talking about. The engine conversion in a nutchell isnt that difficult, i was just trying to let people know what you might run into for trouble. Hell i did the whole thing by myself, and im 18, so i think that it isnt that difficult. I was merely trying to get some poeple to realize that this engine swap isnt ALL fun and games and there is some downsides/things to look out for. My exhaust only cost me 100 dollars too, but its a piece of crap. Sure it works, but if you dont like loud exhaust that mightbe a problem. All of the exhaust setups that I have seen are restrictive, or generate alot of un-nessicary engine bay heat. the plug wires i mentioned because someone that is jsut completeing or starting a swap or even planning a swap might want to crack them in half while the engine is out of the car.

Everything that i mentioned was just for some foresight towards everyone that is planning this swap. i like this motor alot, the one thing that is bugging me right now is that modifications are not well documented at all. That and there is literally no aftermarket companies that do anything for this motor besides RSM which is pricey as all hell, and no one has gotten a set of custom cams as far as im aware.

You can't change my mind Jeff, im not doing the 3.4 TDC

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quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: I had to deal with the water in the spark plug holes too.

My solution to this problem was to stuff the spark plug holes full of hi-temp silicone grease before inserting the plug wires. When you insert the wires they will push out excess grease, which can be wiped off easily enough. Many a rain storm no water can penetrate the holes and there is not enough heat in there to dry out this grease... yet anyway.

This donebone design has proven to work very well. It's custom but simple. Check out DSC000037.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/pl95677/detail?.dir=e244&.dnm=3e3d.jpg&.src=ph

I think that everybody should not even consider doing dohc swaps ..after all its a boat anchor, it holds water in the sparkplug holes, it revs too high, it sounds too much like a Ferrari, it doesn't like automatics, it will ONLY do 13s with a 5 speed AND it is just plain ugly

quote Originally posted by Erik: I think that everybody should not even consider doing dohc swaps ..after all it revs too high, it sounds too much like a Ferrari, it doesn't like automatics, it will ONLY do 13s with a 5 speed AND it is just plain ugly

yeah man you got that right and that is the VERY reason i picked this motor for my GT. Still working on that ugly part.

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still plays with cars..

quote Originally posted by Will: That's only in '84-'87 cars. The '88's have ECM controlled cruise...

Looking at the Mitchell On-Demand wiring diagram for an 88 2.8, the cruise control module gets it's feed from the cluster just like the 84-87. The cluster feeds "to" the ECM (A10), too. No flames, just an observation.

Roy

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: No, because what happens if you open the decklid when there is rain drops on it? Josh Riedl knows what i am talking about. The engine conversion in a nutchell isnt that difficult, i was just trying to let people know what you might run into for trouble. Everything that i mentioned was just for some foresight towards everyone that is planning this swap. i like this motor alot, the one thing that is bugging me right now is that modifications are not well documented at all. That and there is literally no aftermarket companies that do anything for this motor besides RSM which is pricey as all hell, and no one has gotten a set of custom cams as far as im aware.

Really? I dont have a decklid on yet, so I hadnt noticed the clearance issue, it looks like Ive got tons of room for a weather strip. Well see. And who doesnt like loud exaust?!?! Mine should be pretty sweet if all goes well, I'll post some pics on my build thread, wherein I am documenting my progress to the best of my ability, which I thought was pretty good, but I have falled behind lately

When I'm feeling like tracking it down, I'll look it up in the '88 shop manual

Will, i haven't torn my engine down but my car does run and i have put several thousand miles on the car since owning it, so i guess you are right. i take back what i said, water doesn't get in the spark plug holes, the wiring is super duper difficult and the average person should spend countless dollars paying someone to do it for them and i will refrain from correcting good advice in the future. also if anyone gets a water temp code just connect both sensors in parallel and it will go away. i'm going to go tear down my engine now, i'll be back in a couple years when my car actually runs again so i can be an authority here on pennocks fiero forum.

Dude, chill out.

Once you've chilled out, go back and read my post in which I said "I saw the o-rings and assumed that they worked. Silly me."

Thus vindicated, grow the hell up.

dude don't talk to me, i'm trying to tear down my engine.

Josh, maybe if your even lucky, you'll get some more whore-power out of it too!

Say, did you check to see if there is water in the front spark plug holes because i heard that it can have a misfiring effect. You might not have to tear it apart to fix it afterall!

86gt3.4dohc, i have plenty of room for a weather-strip too, in fact it was on ther for about 5 seconds before i decided that it didnt seal well enough, blocked cooling of the engine bay and when you raise the decklid in the case that there was wter on it, it would all shoot into the holes anyhow. Thus unless you never open the decklid after it rains AND have a really good sealing weatherstrip go ahead and do it. But one of these times you'll be not thinking going to put something in the trunk, open it up with water on it and be limping home on 3 cylinders. When that happens dont say that i didnt warn you.

TK: I like that dogbone but it doesnt seem to be int he optimal spot just because the motor has more mass connected to it than the tranny and it is on the tranny side. The motor doesnt have a mount that stops front to back movement, but the trannys mounts are designed to do that.

Darth: That isnt a bad idea for the spark plug holes, however its kinda messy and i dont feel like have grease all over my hands when i pull out the wires.

Mike: I can and i will!! ha!

Let me know if there is any assumptions that you people would like to get cleared up...

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REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-14.7 in the 1/4 mile with no hook-up, crumby exhaust and automatic chip.
Better exhaust, chip, cam retarding, and driver to come... I'm feeling lucky!
www.geocities.com/j_depies

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: TK: I like that dogbone but it doesnt seem to be int he optimal spot just because the motor has more mass connected to it than the tranny and it is on the tranny side. The motor doesnt have a mount that stops front to back movement, but the trannys mounts are designed to do that.

We thought the same thing at first but it turned out to not be a problem. Idealy it would be better to pull on the dogbone rather than push on it. But it works with no slop.

does nobody keep a tube of black gasket rtv in their toolbox like me?

I looked at this area on my engine yesterday and see no reason why a thin little bead around the plug wire wouldn't seal out all water. it won't have a heat issue because well its gasket material on an external non exhaust area.

anyone else notice this?

(guys all the BS aside, I do appreciate you bringing it up as an issue, just seemed like you were saying that it was some huge impossible thing to fix and people shoun't get this engine because of it)

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: dude don't talk to me, i'm trying to tear down my engine.

LOL

quote Originally posted by Will: I looked it up in the manual... The V6's retain the cruise module like early years, but the 4's have ECM controlled cruise...

Interesting. So, to keep the crusie control when installing the DOHC into an 88 that was formally a L4 car, you could to change to a V6 cluster and install the crusie control module and necessary wiring. I wonder if the wiring is already there or would you have to pull it from a donor V6 car?

Regardless, it looks like we were BOTH correct .

Thanks,
Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 10-22-2004).]

i do have a brand new engine that got shipped without being bagged, so i will be tearing that one down and cleaning it and yes hopefully getting a little more power. a little laughing gas seems to be the quick and easy, there is a kit for that so we do have a little bit of an aftermarket.

looking over my freshly pulled engine from the yard i see the distributor plug issue seems to have been a problem for the previous owner.. the worste part is that it looks like you can't get it out without removing the head!?!?!

i'll get around to dealing with that once i start taking the engine apart for cleaning and painting

You can, you just need to cut off a tab that was on the head, it is easy to cut however with like a hacksaw.

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1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
14.78 @ 92.68
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
Offered to donated its organs to Fiero