88 GT 2004 3800SC Series III Pontiac Grand Prix engine 2004 Comp G 4T65eHD with 3.29 gears and paddle shifter manual shifting OBDII PCM, BCM, TAC, and ETC
The easy part was getting the engine and transmission on the cradle of course. Wiring the 2004 components was a challenge. I only started with the PCM because HP Tuners thought they could hack the code down to the VTD ( vehicle theft deterrent) level and not have to run the BCM. Well after 4 days of hacking and loading many different BIN files, I decided it was time to purchase the BCM, Theft exciter module, ignition switch, key, and some connectors. I found a salvage yard willing to cut the connectors and leave me about 6 inches of wire on all the components. After getting them I was able to get the engine running in about 3 hours.
The paddle shifter feature is not online still. I have to build a resistor network that works on one signal wire. The Formula steering wheel with the "horn" paddle buttons is going to become my UP shift and Down shift buttons. Its going to work one way on one button (like up) then one way on the other button (like down). In the Grand Prix it works where either button on the steering wheel will up shift on pushing it, then down shift on pulling on it. I will have to come up with a different button arrangement to make it work that way.
I will be getting the PCM hacked to work without the BCM in the near future. The problem is the BCM talks to the PCM via the serial databus with a hex value password. The key has a transponder in the head of it, and the ignition switch has the exciter ring. Then to make matters even worse, the ignition switch first knows when the key is inserted (called wake up), then the key is turned (called Power Master Mode), then the switch hits crank position and disables part of the PCM for 7 seconds.
So today, my cars name is "Silo". Why? I have two ignition switches and two keys. BOTH must be turned to crank at exactly the same time to start the engine. As the switch travels pass ACC, Run, then Crank, the Power Master Modes are setup. Hey it starts at least today.
Greg, I do not have any more CAI's in stock. Sold the last one 2 days ago. Those were 3 inch customs on a batch from ebay back about 3 months ago. Its hard to get the 3 inch vs the 2.75's and 2.5's for the Honda's. I have another custom one in the build process however that is 3.5 inch and feeds a V8 engine in stock form.
Loyde
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12:00 AM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
That has to be the cleanest install I've ever seen! Very nice. Why did you decide to go with a series III? Doesn't seem worth the effort for an extra 20hp?
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12:01 AM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
That has to be the cleanest install I've ever seen! Very nice. Why did you decide to go with a series III? Doesn't seem worth the effort for an extra 20hp?
This engine is stock. The one in my engine stand will make about 400HP at the tires.
The new Series III blower is so much more efficient in power output, keeping KR in check. The InterCooler will soon be available that offers some additional features the S2 does not for the Series II engines.
I installed this one just to get a handle on the OBDII programming and development with HP Tuners. It also is the first with Electronic Throttle Control (drive by wire), TAP shift (paddle shifter manual transmission, shift on the fly) Fiero.
Loyde
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12:15 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
nice looking swap and good job, loyde. I do have one question though... What did you do with the crankcase vent line? I noticed in the pics you have it capped off with a black rubber plug.
Originally posted by FastFieros: The new Series III blower is so much more efficient in power output, keeping KR in check. The InterCooler will soon be available that offers some additional features the S2 does not for the Series II engines.
will the series III blower bolt up to a series II engine?
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08:30 AM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
will the series III blower bolt up to a series II engine?
The intake and the supercharger needs to be changed together when switching between the two. ZZPerformance sells a throttle body adapter to bolt the Series II TB to the Series III blower so you do not have to worry about the ETC and 04 PCM and wiring.
The series II intake can be mod'ed to except the S3 blower, just takes work with a mill, or very steady hand and grinder.
Kevin, the pics are about 6 days old. I have a dogbone and the shifter cable is now there. The MAF is still being determined where I want it.
Loyde
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08:42 AM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
nice looking swap and good job, loyde. I do have one question though... What did you do with the crankcase vent line? I noticed in the pics you have it capped off with a black rubber plug.
Darth, I vent it through the oil cap. I will have new pics today. These are about 6 days old.
are there any internal differences between series III and II? stronger rods etc?
FastFieros - so wiht that adaptor you could take a seriesIII and swap on the TB and ecm from a seriesII ?
This was the press release GM made back in 2003 http://www.fastfieros.com/enginesavailable/L32_new_changed.htm ... Note many changes to the 04 Series III. Even some things I have noticed are not mentioned. One is the alternator. The 04 alt has a one-way sprag bearing. Meaning, it will spin up in one direction with the RPM's, but on the deceleration side, it free wheels to reduce drag on the engine, and also reduce torsional twist in the alt.
Thanks again for the kind words on the install. I really enjoy these 3800SC engines in Fieros. Power to weight ratios are just so right. The automatic transmissions shift so firm with the proper programming.
No one has noticed the fuel rails and lines? Humm, could that be a return to tank system like the 2004 Grand Prix and 01-02 Camaros, and many vettes today have? Its really simple to apply this to the Fiero down at the fuel filter area out of the way.
Originally posted by FastFieros: No one has noticed the fuel rails and lines? Loyde
I noticed. I've been thinking of doing that myself - even made a 6061 billet housing for the regulator - but still can't decide if I really want to do it. The factory went with returnless lines for emissions reasons, not performance. The gas will soak up engine heat on top of the motor, and when it's returned to the tank it evaporates quicker.
BTW, nice clean install.
-Tim
------------------ 84 Fiero, 3800SC Series II,4spd manual 12.90 @ 108.9mph
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12:14 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Very nice!! I love the 3800SC! If I wasn't such a V8 fan, I'd get one in a heartbeat. But, I know me. V8's are what excite me. Still, I may have to make room for one of each. That's too cool looking of an install.
I know.... a V8 Formula 5-speed for my Hot Rod, and a Series III 3800SC automatic GT for my cruiser. Yeah, that's it.
Very nice!! I love the 3800SC! If I wasn't such a V8 fan, I'd get one in a heartbeat. But, I know me. V8's are what excite me. Still, I may have to make room for one of each. That's too cool looking of an install.
I know.... a V8 Formula 5-speed for my Hot Rod, and a Series III 3800SC automatic GT for my cruiser. Yeah, that's it.
Who'd want their cruiser to be faster than their hot rod ??
Back on topic nice install Loyde looks real nice!
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04:47 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Well, since it needed some more options. I added the TAP (Touch Activated Power)
I did not get to use the Fiero Formula steering wheel at this time. Just didnt have time to do the wiring needed to get to that location.
Another thing that changed my mind what reading the 2004 Grand Prix Forum. They indicated that TAP on the steering was to hard to really use. They thought that shift on the stick would be better suited. So I used the spot where the power mirrors switch was supposed to be. This car does not have power mirrors, so the nice blank spot made a perfect place to rest my arm on the center console, and lay my fingers on the "upshift" and "downshift" buttons. My first test drive tonight was only about 5 miles, but it was really nice shifting manually up and down.
I will take pics later after I add the ignition key switch to the ashtray area.
Loyde
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01:53 AM
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
sounds like the series III is a really good swap - even with backing up to the series II electronics and TB
you say you installed it in 2003.. so what model year of car would i search for.. 2004 right?
The Series III was only in the 2004 Grand Prix so far. I sure there must be some 05's Chevrolet's out today that someone can find out if the Series III made it to the Monte or Impala. I had read that Chevrolet was using the Series II until 2006.
Loyde
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08:32 PM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Great job.
Good Lord Loyde 
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