So when i perfect what ive been working on i plan to start doing a few for people, ive documented everything ive done so far on my chop targa car, and im going to keep it for show. I wont do the chop top if archie has any objection. The targa i plan on doing quite a few because ive got a lot of the materials and some time here and there to do them. i dont have prices yet just checking interest. I also wanted to know if Archie would object to me doing chop tops... well what do u think?

Hi all,

I doubt he'll object outrite... You'll hopefully drive prices down a lil though due to comptetion, which would be nice for some of us...

edit: no flame intendid

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 10-22-2004).]

I say, (and with no offence to archie) if you wanna do choptops than do it. Everywhere in the world there is competition to force the other people to either get better, or work cheaper, or both. but i've noticed for some reason in the fiero community, if you try and start a business, and someone does something similar, "oh no!!!!"

just don't do it the way archie does it, ie. don't lay the windshield back, or something like that, just something to make it diff. than archies.

in the end though i am still poor for now and the project isn't working. BUT in about a year or (hopefully) less, i'd probably be ready for a chop and a targa, or at least a targa.

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AIM= Fish100770
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its not ocmpetition for archie because he won't do targa chops.. he's said it many times.. so Shueglue is just filling a missing niche

edit because i was thinking of t-tops.. sou you are doing custom targa tops now? with or without choptop?

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-22-2004).]

What a guy! You have a lot of tact and courtesy, coming here and offering to do chops, but only if Archie doesn't mind.

Archie seems to be very busy with what's already on his plate - never running out of cars to work on - so maybe he'll even appreciate you taking some load off. And as was said before, a little bit of competition (and your geographic location) might make chops available to more owners!

But I'm not Archie! If he objects, I'm sure he wont' say so in open forum - that's between you guys. Hope to see you two working in harmony soon!

Now we can have twice the chop threads!

If you can do it and match the quilty of Archie's chop for cheaper then im sure you will have plenty of buisnes... of course Archie's quility is second to none (so far) keep us updated!

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Either way if Archie has objection or not, there's not much he can do about it. Chop tops are done to all cars, and he does not own the rights to them. You're not going to kill his business. Either way a man's still gotta eat, right? It's a dog eat dog world. It's cut throat. If your prices are competitive and still the chop itself retains good quality, more power to you. Competition is also an element that drives competitors to strive in their work. Go for it!

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[This message has been edited by Iron_Mark_2003 (edited 10-22-2004).]

i don't think you could do it cheaper than archie, and honestly i don't know how archie keeps his prices that low. in actual parts including glass, bonding agents, and welding supplies, you are going to be over $1,000. when you consider the cost of electricity for tools, heat for the shop and various other hidden charges the price goes up. archie's website says he can do it in a month. that's one month of paying one or more persons labor. this is where you're profit would be, when archie is signing paychecks you are pocketing money. but how long have you been working on it at this point. i got the chop and most of the bodywork done in two months. i consider it less than half done. assuming you have a full time job and can only do a little bit each day like me, maybe you could do it in four months. that's about 500 dollars a month profit, probably not even that because people complain about archie's price. unless your quality was superior and you could charge more, but archie's have come a long way since his first one, you would be better off at a fast food place. i doubt archie would get upset, he is probably laughing because he knows what is really involved. i say do it if you want, i wish you the best of luck but it really can't be done cheaper and be worth the work involved.

Also keep in mind that Archie's price includes new "A" and "B" piller trim.

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Roy

double-click on this link to follow my interior build-up https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/023174.html

Blue 87 GT w/ 4th generation Firebird interior.
Suncoast Fieros

Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 20th Anniversary Show @ Pontiac, Mich - 7/2003
Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 8th Annual Fiero Fun Weekend @ Daytona - 3/2004

Archie and the crew can perform a choptop less than (1) month. Also Archie has developed and perfected the technique of chopping cars over several years. There is a different method comparred to Choptop #10 and #11 and from #11 and #12. So I think Archie's chops are evolving as time continues.

Exceptions: The guy who performed the Europe choptop is different. The chop's angle is less comparred to Archie's and less than a 3" chop. (info from the current owner). Oriville in CA does a choptop too. He's is different vs. Archies. So from this examples, there is room for chops of various kinds.

IMO: If you gonna do a chop, follow some of the examples I've given. Don't follow or copy Archie's step-by-step. Do your own thing. Which I think your doing anyway from what you've stated? Targa, T-top, ect........ Some people talk about being to tall? maybe you can do a chop that is chopped less than 3"?

who the hell cares if archie objects?? for your information archie does not own the idea of a choptop. chops have been done to cars since like the 60s people!
do whatever you want. even if you follow the exact same process, its just competeition!
do it!

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: i don't think you could do it cheaper than archie, and honestly i don't know how archie keeps his prices that low. in actual parts including glass, bonding agents, and welding supplies, you are going to be over $1,000. when you consider the cost of electricity for tools, heat for the shop and various other hidden charges the price goes up. archie's website says he can do it in a month. that's one month of paying one or more persons labor. this is where you're profit would be, when archie is signing paychecks you are pocketing money. but how long have you been working on it at this point. i got the chop and most of the bodywork done in two months. i consider it less than half done. assuming you have a full time job and can only do a little bit each day like me, maybe you could do it in four months. that's about 500 dollars a month profit, probably not even that because people complain about archie's price. unless your quality was superior and you could charge more, but archie's have come a long way since his first one, you would be better off at a fast food place. i doubt archie would get upset, he is probably laughing because he knows what is really involved. i say do it if you want, i wish you the best of luck but it really can't be done cheaper and be worth the work involved.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Additionally, People were chopping the tops on cars long before We ever did it. All we've done is perfect the process as it applies to the Fiero chassis. So it isn't like it's an original idea.

Maybe with all the people currently trying it on their own cars, people will begin to realize that my prices are too low & I'll be able to raise prices to what they should have been in the 1st place. If truth be known, doing the Chop Tops is nearly a "break-even" deal for us. with very little profit when we get to the bottom line. It does however keep my guys working and it brings a lot of attention to many of the other things we do, some of which we actually make a few $ with.

As far as v-8 swaps and those kinds of things, I get upset when people copy our work and call it their own. I don't get upset about Chop Tops as long as you are not copying our work. If you take on doing Chop Tops try to keep your quality level very high. If people are going to compare price vs price, the deciding factor is going to be the level of quality of the finished product. Then once you've attained the quality level needed & pay for all the tooling to make the side windows, interior "A" & "B" pillar pcs., quarter windows, headliners, rear window, inside trim for GT qtr. windows etc. Then I'll start selling it as a kit & you'll have a whole bunch of people trying to beat your price on completed chops.

If you want to spend the money to make the tooling for all the odds & ends & once you've built enough of them that you can prove your quality level before you start building them for people & do all of this without copying the work of others'. Then more power to you. If you do all of this & still can't make a high quality level you might be better off investing your money & time in a fast food franchise.

Archie

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pics are needed

[This message has been edited by pred1tor83 (edited 10-22-2004).]

I agree with archie totally, as for the fast food thing not funny, i have a job and im not trying to make a fortune, i work on gm motors everyday. Anyway what ive done is completed 1 chop top targa top car GT and im going to start 1 notchback just chop top. I have taken pictures of every step along the way and plan to keep both cars for people to look at how it was completed.

Now a lot of you dont think i should care what archie thinks but to be honest i cant think of any better way to do most of the things that are done. A good example is i hid 2x2 square tubing in the rocker when i did my targa. archie did this for the finale roadster. i was going to originally put braces in the car. But how could i not do it like he did when it worked so well and u cant see any of it when the cars back together. So in my opinion it does matter because i would do it this way for the targa top unless u wanted a roll cage put in your car.

Another thing is that i wont be offering an interior solution like archies, for my car i simply cut the b pillar above the speaker, and it works but will not look as good as his does. Archies chops will no doubt be of higher quality than mine but i should be able to do it somewhat cheaper than him, but less complete.

As for quality i will let people judge that themselves, i will have 2 completed cars before i start. ill let people check out what they are getting into before they do it, and im not going to sit here and say i can do it better than Archie, he does have Waaaaaaaaay more experience.

So anyway from how the first car went i would say prices would be in the range of 2500 for a chop top and 2000 for the targa top
and im sure we can get a lower price not a combined one for both, the targa top would be a lot cheaper but u have to brace up the frame quite a bit.

i will work with the customer 100% to do whatever they request ie different heights and angles of the roof. but i will not compromise the targa top to be cheaper because it has to be braces well or your car will not make it out of the garage.

justin

i say do it, but show us some pictures of the completed car. that, and i like the chop top targa look so i'd like to see it

-Fish

Also i have a v8 archie speedometer and v8 convertion in my car, i bought it second hand half finished. I do not plan on doing v8 convertions or making kits of any sort. Altho in the future maybe some different body panles such as a front bumper because im not a big fan of any that are available right now. but as for now just wanted to see what people thought. its a ways off before im going to offer a chop or a targa.

justin

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: i say do it, but show us some pictures of the completed car. -Fish

I agree.

It's good that you answered some or most questions. Yeah we want pics, hehehehehe. Otherwise

It gets really boreing from time to time w/o pics. With pics...I can eat my dinner much better, hehehehe.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 10-22-2004).]

well i havent finished yet and i plan on doing a build up once completed and painted, This thread was only as i said ealier to check interest.

justin

quote Originally posted by ShueGlue737: well i havent finished yet and i plan on doing a build up once completed and painted, This thread was only as i said ealier to check interest. justin

It seems evident that there is interest, though that hasn't been particularly obvious in this thread, as the topic kinda swerved from the main point of the thread. =P

But yea, I think that when you post a build-up thread with actual pics and info, you'll start getting calls. In case you're looking for a Fiero to chop and targa to hell for free as a model, hehe.... *hint hint* ...I'm sure I could find my way to Michigan.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: . Yeah we want pics, hehehehehe. Otherwise It gets really boreing from time to time w/o pics. With pics...I can eat my dinner much better, hehehehe.

I think Archie could do the chop top in about a week if that's all he was working on. I had to slow him down to give me time to get back up there to pick it up. Archie's quality is second to none, so the bar is set high for anyone wanting to get into the chop top business.

Remember the chop is the easy part, getting it to look lke it came that way from the factory is going to be a lot harder. His custom trim pieces alone are worth the price he charges. And just for comparison this is what an Archie chop top looks like:

i cant wait to see your car painted. I just finished my a pillar interior peices, when the door is open u can tell they re stock reworked ones if u know what to look for, otherwise they look perfect but that is because its a targa top, the hardtop notchback i do will have a more challenging interior, but as for now i know archie is top quality and i dont mean to compete and im not looking to make a fortune, i just like working on fiero's and i plan on doing a few here and there. But dont judge my work untill you see the build up thread, ill say i should have pics and all posted before mid nov.

justin

quote Originally posted by ShueGlue737: i cant wait to see your car painted. I just finished my a pillar interior peices, when the door is open u can tell they re stock reworked ones if u know what to look for, otherwise they look perfect but that is because its a targa top, the hardtop notchback i do will have a more challenging interior, but as for now i know archie is top quality and i dont mean to compete and im not looking to make a fortune, i just like working on fiero's and i plan on doing a few here and there. But dont judge my work untill you see the build up thread, ill say i should have pics and all posted before mid nov. justin

Oh, oh! Cats out of the bag. You might as well post the rest of them now?

It seem as though your doing two things at the same time? Targa and a chop?

well i did the targa first, as the frame had to be braced, so that got done first, then the chop happened becuase logically it makes sence to do it that order, thats why it would be cheaper to have both done. Lol ill start another thread with some pics later tonight or tommorow. look for it in the technical.

Your braces on the car......are they welded similar to that of "other" targa projects? There is a certain method of doing it. Chester has his done with under the car cross braces. I think it involves raising the car first? But I'm not sure?

Remember, cutting the car is only 30% of the hard part. It's the fabrication and tooling needed to do the same things. At any rate, I hope you the best?

Well? were are you now at with the choppper?

You can always FAKE the targa.....works for me

When I'm done, mine will be both chopped and have a Targa. It will all be done in my garage by me.

Right now I'm doing all the research I can on each, getting all the pics I can collect, and figuring out exactly how I want it to end up looking.

There is actually alot more ways to do a chop than I thought when I first started thinking about it, and I am weighing the pros and cons to each, so when I start I will have a definite direction to go with hopefully little surprises.

i would love to have a targa top on my GT.. but just everyone else it has to be done right.