yeah - thats the current estimate - the company I outsource work to is inconsitent - sometimes they run into a problem and are two week slate sometimes things go great and are two weeks early..
These are supposed to be CNC milled, then buff polished and hard anodized all the hardware is stainless steel, the bolts that lock the timiing adjuster arms into place will also have a toothed lockwasher to prevent it from slipping once i recieve the parts I'll be applying the timing marks, adding the hardware, packaging with instructions. The apearance of the design changed slightly - I think it actually looks even better than the prototype turned out.
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 02-04-2005).]
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09:14 AM
soloyosh Member
Posts: 192 From: Queen Creek, AZ Registered: Jun 2003
tested out my prototype.. Final product will look even better and have revised timing marks or course they are only as acurate as you get top dead center.
on a 94+ (91-93 you have to remove the belt and cog retainers) after removing the valve covers and timing belt covers as well as setting TDC and breaking the cog retainer bolts free
1.tighten down the captive center bolt with a 13mm socket
2. adjust timing (left to retard, right to advance) - you can use a 3/4" or 19mm wech for this
3. tighten the lock bolts using 10mm upen end wrench 4. tighten cog retainer lock bolts 5. remove timing tool then torque retainer bolts to spec 6. repeat for other side then reasemble
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07:19 PM
Mar 2nd, 2005
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
That is such a cool tool. It seems to take all the guess-work out of timing.
One question: Have you been able to test the clearance of the top of the tool on 3.4 DOHC that's already installed into a Fiero? I'm courious about the height of the tool and the clearance on the front side head.
That is such a cool tool. It seems to take all the guess-work out of timing.
One question: Have you been able to test the clearance of the top of the tool on 3.4 DOHC that's already installed into a Fiero? I'm courious about the height of the tool and the clearance on the front side head.
Roy
haven't yet but I hope to very soon.. as I'm working on getting my 3.4 into my 86SE
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09:45 AM
AaronZ34 Member
Posts: 2322 From: Colorado Springs, CO Registered: Oct 2004
tested out my prototype.. Final product will look even better and have revised timing marks or course they are only as acurate as you get top dead center.
Does the engine need to be at TDC in order to retard the cams? I wouldn't think so, I thought it could be anywhere, since they are all linked together.
I was thinking about the problem you had with oil at the bottom of your bolt hole. Why not drill a small hole in the bolt to let any oil out of the bolt hole so you dont risk pulling the threads out. Just a thought.
Does the engine need to be at TDC in order to retard the cams? I wouldn't think so, I thought it could be anywhere, since they are all linked together.
TDC is where the flats of the cams should be at 0* - in order to advance or retard them you need a starting point..
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12:36 PM
AaronZ34 Member
Posts: 2322 From: Colorado Springs, CO Registered: Oct 2004
im glad that you finally got to test out the tool. Hopefully ill be able to order one soon cuz i wanna play around with my cam timing . One question, how do you determine TDC for the #1 piston?
due to the fact that these are 4stroke engines there are two top dead centers for each piston, at the end of the compression stroke and at the end of the exhaust stroke.. asuming your harmonic balancer is intact then you may get the closest by lining up the notch in it with the little timing casting on the block. do this before you unbolt the cam cogs and make sure the flats are up or you may time them for the wrong top dead center.
a little update - the main peice of the cam tools came yesterday - and man are they purdy put i'll hold out on pics till I get the rest of the machined parts and assemble one
Considering how the spark plug wires cannot be taken off without breaking them in half im going to assume that its not possbile to do it while fully in the fiero. If you un-bolted the rear cradle mounts and pivoted the cradle, then you might be good to go.
Considering how the spark plug wires cannot be taken off without breaking them in half im going to assume that its not possbile to do it while fully in the fiero. If you un-bolted the rear cradle mounts and pivoted the cradle, then you might be good to go.
maybe I should make new plug wire holders that pivot in the middle too
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02:11 PM
Mar 7th, 2005
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
that wouldnt b a bad idea, i dont know how you would make them work though.. but where the plastic seperates is where i broke mine and they come out fine now...
as far as the tool goes, i dont know, but i think that you will be able to put it on there, but i dont know about getting at the bolts for the degrees. besides th hinge mount is right there so visibility will be a pain.
that wouldnt b a bad idea, i dont know how you would make them work though.. but where the plastic seperates is where i broke mine and they come out fine now...
as far as the tool goes, i dont know, but i think that you will be able to put it on there, but i dont know about getting at the bolts for the degrees. besides th hinge mount is right there so visibility will be a pain.
the degree marks are on top with the production ones - the adjusting handles stick up about 2 inches above the valve cover
Personally I wouldn't recommend torquing the bolts in with this or any hold down tool it puts a lot of force on that one center bolt - What I did was tighten them with a 3/8" wrench then removed the tool and used a large crescent wrench on the cam flat to holt it while torquing to spec.. (I actually set mine back to stock so that I'll have something to compare to - after I get it in my car and running then I'll tweek the timing
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-07-2005).]
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06:37 AM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
I wasnt talking about using the tool to loosen/tighten the bolt on the end of the cams.. i was talking about to adjust the degrees on the tool. it is on the side where the hinge is for the decklid, and it is awefully close to the area of the ehad where you put to tool on so getting a wrench onto those bolts will be difficult. Good to hear the degree marks are on the top of the tool now.
I wasnt talking about using the tool to loosen/tighten the bolt on the end of the cams.. i was talking about to adjust the degrees on the tool. it is on the side where the hinge is for the decklid, and it is awefully close to the area of the ehad where you put to tool on so getting a wrench onto those bolts will be difficult. Good to hear the degree marks are on the top of the tool now.
I was just adding that because of seeing how some people are using the flat bar hold down as the clamp to losen the cam bolts..
the clearance may be close - worst case someone might have to modify it to clear..
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01:05 PM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
Does this come with printed instructions? I know how to do the timing belt on a DOHC I've just never done it personally. Does this double as a cam-hold down tool? I would assume so?
Does this come with printed instructions? I know how to do the timing belt on a DOHC I've just never done it personally. Does this double as a cam-hold down tool? I would assume so?
I really don't think using it to torque the bolts to spec is a good idea - best to use a cog holder for that - but you can use it to get them tight before torquing.. I'll be working up instructions for the 91-93 as well as the 94-97 engines - it will be none car specific..
If you want to know how I personally hold my cams to break the bolts lose and to torque them down.. I use a large crescent wrench on the cam flat of each cam as I tighten the bolt - I let the engine turn freely till the wrench interferes with something and stops allowing my to torque the bolt. picked up this technique when I replaced the timing belt on my subaru.. had an old military 2 foot long crescent wrench on the cam flats with my father holding it down and me on a 1/2" drive breaker bar lifting him off the ground till the bolts broke free - it was a scary experience the first time around..
the polished cnc'd parts arived - i opened the box and they are beautiful - then i look closer. ^#$& they messed em up - the hole down the center to bolt it to the heads is missing - its just not even there.. I'm waiting for them to respond on how they intend to fix this. Sorry to anyone who did the pre-buy - it may bee a little longer.. that or i'll drill the hole myself
You payed 'em for a hole, and didn't get one, talk to the bosses boss, be calm but firm, don't threaten, they pay shipping and throw a couple more in the box for the inconvenience, Oh and an extra $.02
Norm
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11:04 PM
Mar 12th, 2005
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Seems strange to pay for something that will not be there ............A hole is the absense of material so you are paying for it not to be there, see. ohhhhhhhhhhh fergetaboutit...
I'm waiting for more feedback form them. I sent them a scan of the invoice showing they knew how it should have been, a screenshot of the software showing how the part was int he cad file, and a photo of what they sent me looked like. It will get resoved, I'm not paying for something thats not what I ordered. Just pissed about the delay since this is the second screw up they've done to me.. I've started looking for a new shop to work with.
Originally posted by ltlfrari: Seems strange to pay for something that will not be there ............A hole is the absense of material so you are paying for it not to be there, see. ohhhhhhhhhhh fergetaboutit...
Outside of the news that we get the new pup next week, that gave me the second biggest smile this week! Norm
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12:34 AM
Mar 24th, 2005
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
I'm working on fixing them myself - should be able to ship the ones that have already been purchased out saturday. I'll post a pic of the final setup tonight.. the degreemarks are a vinyl decal.. I am slightly concerned that people will pull em off by accident so I'm possibly going to coat overtop of them with clear
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06:21 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14250 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
pretty much any other form of manufacturing would have dramaticly increased the cost.. trying to keep this as cost effective to people as possible..
if someone wanted they could easy make the marks permanent with the delicate touch of a demel with a thin disk just to cut through the black anodized surface..
if people really want the marks to be permanent I can probably setup my mill to add the marks but it wouldn't have the numbers.
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-24-2005).]
hope nobody has gotten it yet because I've been sick and haven't gotten the directions put together and up on the site.. really its fairly self explanatory
just set the crank to TDC, pull the cogs off of the 91-93 engines and replace without tightening, or losen the bolt and knock the cogs lose on the 94+ engines... degress are in cam degrees not crank degrees so if you want to try the "13" degree retard thing i'd recommend aiming for 6 cam degrees since belts do stretch and timing does change slightly (getting more retarded) then tighten the cog bolts down carefully.. remove the timing tool and then torque the bolts to spec using a cog holder tool or put a large crescent wrench on the cam flat of each cam while you break it free or torque it down (this is the method I use.
DISCLAIMER** WARNING** do not use this to hold the cams in place to break the bolt free, it may break/bend/ or you may strip the threads out of the cam carrier
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11:34 AM
Matt Hawkins Member
Posts: 586 From: Waterford, MI Registered: Oct 2000
. One question, how do you determine TDC for the #1 piston?
put i'll hold out on pics till I get the rest of the machined parts and assemble one
