I'm just curious has anyone done it? good results seems like someone would I mean fieros, cavaliers, beretta's and what not use them and I've seen some cav's that put down power, not sure on trans though.

Is it not posted much on here because of the price of the full rebuild?

I'm asking cause I would like this done, even if it was to use the stock gears. Looking for feedback on why it's not heard of

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http://formula.cryptnix.com

You're looking at $2,000 for a complete rebuild by a professional, which includes premium parts, and Ultrasonic Stress Relieve/Hardening. See my thread in Signature below for details.

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Car History: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

quote Originally posted by LoW_KeY: I'm just curious has anyone done it? good results seems like someone would I mean fieros, cavaliers, beretta's and what not use them and I've seen some cav's that put down power, not sure on trans though. Is it not posted much on here because of the price of the full rebuild? I'm asking cause I would like this done, even if it was to use the stock gears. Looking for feedback on why it's not heard of

Building parts to live with horsepower and torque is easy and just requires $$$$$.... Its the ratios that suck on a 282 and even the 284.

1st gear on my V6 3800sc with the 282 was 1.6 seconds
2nd gear was 2.8 seconds
3rd gear was 6.2 seconds
4th gear was finally about 110MPH and that finished out the quarter mile.

These times are just my stopwatch button pushing, but I drove the car about 3 months and 2500 miles, so I had lots of time to play with it. I loved that blue engine, but I hated that 282. There are no gears available to play with the 1 - 2 ratios. Then you have shift CABLES... cables have slack, you have transition time from 2 - 3... This all adds up to 10ths in racing for the best time.

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 03-12-2005).]

If you watch the Motor Trend vdeo on the Fiero, they complained about the shift cables on the brand new Fieros, so the 20 year old ones don't have a chance of shifting crisp. Stll I prefer even a slack shifting manual to the best automatic.

The ratios on the 282 are hopeless. What we really need to start working on are the 6 speed transverse trannies coming out from GM.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 03-12-2005).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: You're looking at $2,000 for a complete rebuild by a professional, which includes premium parts, and Ultrasonic Stress Relieve/Hardening. See my thread in Signature below for details.

That's a bit steep. It's only got ~$800 in parts and a decent mechanic can do the overhaul in a day. Gonna pay upwards of $1000 for ultrasonic? That's steep, too.

quote Originally posted by Will: That's a bit steep. It's only got ~$800 in parts and a decent mechanic can do the overhaul in a day. Gonna pay upwards of $1000 for ultrasonic? That's steep, too.

I made the assumption he would take the car in, price I referenced would be doing everything, remove, dis-assemble, Ultrasonic Process entire trans, paint or media blast case, re-assemble, re-install in vehicle. Guess I could have been a little clearer in the post, when investing this kind of cash, everything gets looked over, assuring there's not another weak link hiding in the system. Responded to this thread, as shop I used is in S.E. Michigan, wouldn't be that far for him to go to, swapped pm's with him on contact information so he can discuss directly with them.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-13-2005).]

Will, where do you get your Getrags rebuilt? I know of no places around here that will touch them. At least, no places other than mom & pop shops that I wouldn't trust to do an oil change, but they'll be glad to tear into my tranny if my money's green.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Will, where do you get your Getrags rebuilt? I know of no places around here that will touch them. At least, no places other than mom & pop shops that I wouldn't trust to do an oil change, but they'll be glad to tear into my tranny if my money's green.

We have a local shop here that has done Getrags for several NIFE members & a few of my customers. They have been charging $360.00 to dis-assemble, inspect & re-assemble the transmission. If they find any parts that need replacing they add that to the price. I thought their price was a bit high, so now I'm in the process of buying all the correct tools needed to dis-assemble & re-assemble the Getrags. One of my guys has a lot of experience working on stick shift transmission on a previous job for more than 2 years.

Also, we are currently working on a V-8 Fiero stick shift for the guy who owns 300Below http://www.300below.com/site/home.html so I'm in hopes that that relationship will help the Fiero community.

So, we'll see.

Archie

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quote Originally posted by Formula88: Will, where do you get your Getrags rebuilt? I know of no places around here that will touch them. At least, no places other than mom & pop shops that I wouldn't trust to do an oil change, but they'll be glad to tear into my tranny if my money's green.

I overhaul my own. I wouldn't trust a shop to do it either.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: If you watch the Motor Trend vdeo on the Fiero, they complained about the shift cables on the brand new Fieros, so the 20 year old ones don't have a chance of shifting crisp. Stll I prefer even a slack shifting manual to the best automatic. The ratios on the 282 are hopeless. What we really need to start working on are the 6 speed transverse trannies coming out from GM.

unless they have gears for the new 6 speed I feel that tranny will be another lost cause thanks to GM having their heads up their butt. I don't care if its not as fast through the quarter or what not I just like the simple fact of having a stick. I used to hate them when I was 15 and my dad was teaching me on his s-10, but after owning the fiero and making it a peppy car I want to keep it a manual. It'd be like owning a Z06 with an auto, not much excitement and probably why they don't offer them in autos.

now if I had a grand prix or any family car yeah give me an auto, I just feel like the manual suites the car That's where I come to a hault I'm hoping they change ratios on the 6 speed or offer aftermarket. I'm not holding my breathe GM hasn't made a FWD manual thats worthy, unlike the RWD market they seem to be doing a fine job there. I don't hear nothing soon, this maybe my winter project to get it rebuilt. Even though the gearing sucks I can live with it, you just have to react quicker!

quote Originally posted by Will: Ahh... When I was first looking for a shop to overhaul my transmission (before I decided that I could do it myself) I walked into a shop and talked to the lacky at the counter. The boss was behind him on the phone with someone. The second the word Fiero got out of my mouth, the boss couldn't get off the phone fast enough to tell me that they were NOT going to do a clutch job on a Fiero... made me chuckle...

Know what you mean about finding a "Reliable Shop", the way I went about it was to talk to local well know Hot Rodders in my area. They know who's good, even to specific areas of the car!!!

quote Originally posted by Archie: so now I'm in the process of buying all the correct tools needed to dis-assemble & re-assemble the Getrags. One of my guys has a lot of experience working on stick shift transmission on a previous job for more than 2 years. Archie

when is this going to happen? 6 months, a year? Just curious. That would be great if you could offer this service.

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• At mile 20 I thought I was dead At mile 22 I wished I was dead At mile 24 I knew I was dead At mile 26.2 I realized I had become too tough to kill

What did the 284's come in? I'm sort of worried that I'm going to blow the Getrag in my Fiero. I've got a 400 HP SBC in it. I have only driven it 2 miles thus far.

quote Originally posted by eatoninside: What did the 284's come in? I'm sort of worried that I'm going to blow the Getrag in my Fiero. I've got a 400 HP SBC in it. I have only driven it 2 miles thus far.

They were in the 91-92 3.4 DOHC 5-speed cars.
Grand Prix GTP
Lumina GTZ? (some variant of Lumina)
And I think some Olds Cutlass Internationales had it too. The 284 was only offered with the 3.4 DOHC and only for 1 - 2 years.
It's not a direct swap with the 284, as it uses a different slave and throw out bearing setup (push instead of pull) but it can be done. The bellhousing is the same. I'm not sure about the mounts, though.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: They were in the 91-92 3.4 DOHC 5-speed cars. Grand Prix GTP Lumina GTZ? (some variant of Lumina) And I think some Olds Cutlass Internationales had it too. The 284 was only offered with the 3.4 DOHC and only for 1 - 2 years. It's not a direct swap with the 284, as it uses a different slave and throw out bearing setup (push instead of pull) but it can be done. The bellhousing is the same. I'm not sure about the mounts, though.

91-93 actually. Grand Prix, Lumina Z34 and Lumina Euro 3.4, Olds Cutlass, and Monte Carlo*

-Steven

* - if they even made Monte Carlos in 91-93, i can't remember. its the same car as the lumina.

Monte replaced lumina in '96

actually the monte replaced the lumina in 94...

And if your looking at getting a 284 the place that i see them most commonly is on the www.60degree.com website.

I still stand by my 282's, just so long as the differential is changed with that of a later model 282 or posi unit. You CAN break a Fiero's 282's diff by over torquing it. The rest of the parts are tough.

I wouldn't trust many to rebuild a 282. They don't really care about the results as much as I would on my own transmission. I rebuilt my own 282 using parts from two other Quad 4 282's, using the best parts from each. I found that I had cracked the spider gears alittle and had broken off the case hardening on the axle drive spiders in many places. The differential was heavily re worked in the later 282s and will prevent this from happening again in the future. I drove it cross country just days after finishing the rebuild and install, I am still very happy with the resulting trans, even though the gear ratios I selected are for a future motor, not the 3.4 that I have in the car now. They are 3.77, 2.19, 1.38, 1.03, 72., 3.61:1 FDR First and second are alittle shorter now, but Fourth gear is an absolute blast! And I kept my tall 5th for the mileage.

quote Originally posted by Archie: so now I'm in the process of buying all the correct tools needed to dis-assemble & re-assemble the Getrags. Archie

I rebuilt mine with a set of torches and a press, no special tools needed. An old socket set that goes up to 2 inches and a few chunks of scrap metal will work in the press to dissasemble the input and output shafts. Are you looking at getting the real tools from GM? lots of times I find a hammer works better than the recomended j-360-9876532124x tool gm builds.

[This message has been edited by p8ntman442 (edited 03-14-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: even though the gear ratios I selected are for a future motor, not the 3.4 that I have in the car now. They are 3.77, 2.19, 1.38, 1.03, 72., 3.61:1 FDR First and second are alittle shorter now, but Fourth gear is an absolute blast! And I kept my tall 5th for the mileage.

I agree on the 4th and 5th comments, although I'd go for the 3.94 final, personally.

Why'd you use the 3.77 1st? IMNSHO, a deeper first is the absolute last thing a 282 needs.

quote Originally posted by Will: 284's MUCH nicer than a 282... just still far from ideal. There are ratio choices for 1st and 2nd gears. The combos that were available were 3.50/2.05, 3.50/2.19, and 3.77/2.19. While these aren't ideal either, a 3.50/2.19 gearset would be better than the 3.50/2.05 gearset with which Fieros were equipped. For the record, the 284 1-2 set is 3.46/2.28.

Will, do you know specifically what cars the 3.46/2.28 set came in and the rest of the ratios? Also, same for 3.50/2.19. If I ever run across one. I'd like to recognize it.

Will the diff from the later getrags bolt to the Fiero ring gear?

there is a 3.50, 2.19??? input shaft? I have no record of one of those existing. the 3.77 is alittle steep, but with a 3.4 DOHC, It shouldn't be too crazy. If all else fails, second takes off quite well being alittle shorter then a normal 2.05 second. If there was a 3.50, 2.19 that I knew of I would have tried for that.

You know, I've been working on Fieros (V-8 Fieros that is) for almost 18 years now.

I've been on the Internet for about 8 years now. But one thing has stayed consistant thoughout all these years.

No matter what I say I'm gonna do & no matter how I say I'm gonna do it, there's always been someone there to tell me I'm doing it wrong.

That's why I usually go ahead & do what I'm gonna do then I tell you about it.

Archie

more accuratly, everyone has there own way of doing things, Just like I had a different way of saying what you just said

If I were to make up a list of essential tools to rebuild a getrag. Well, here goes...

15- 20 Ton press (non negotiable)

Press sleves for taking out differential bearing races,

Assorted press collars, large pipe diameters with both sides surfaced off in the lathe work GREAT.

Feeler guages

Clean workspace

special tool for pushing OUT the gearsets from the case, basically two 1" dowls 1/4" different in length welded to a piece of bar stock.

large strong bar stock for mounting the case in the press to remove the gearsets

1/2" thick plate steel for the press

punch set for removing the 3 roll pins (2 on the shift shaft, one on the diff, depending on year getrag)

C clip removal tool, there are two of them preventing removal of the gearsets from the input and output shafts

A spare bellhousing, preferably a Quad 4 one. This can come in handy when the input and output shafts need to be reloaded into the case, GM sells a tool, but good luck finding it, the case half does the same thing.

You will also need a 12 point tool special for removing the input and output shaft lockers, they are counter-rotated, so caution should be used.

Magnetic pickup tool for all the detent balls, springs and interlocks.

A good manual.

Im not 100% sure a torch is needed, but there is mension of it in the manual. I found it wasnt really necessary.

the one thing that creeped me out about the getrag is the fact that 3rd 4th and 5th are PRESSED ON. there is NO keying whatsoever to these gears and theoretically with enough torque will just spin on the shaft. They might have been hot when installed and shrunk onto the shafts.

There is another tool mensioned in the manual that I found a neat way around. They have a tool with 7 long bolts, long spacers and a collar, so that you can phisically measure the preload for the differential bearings, then select the proper selective shim for the race for the proper preload. The preload is -.004" witch means the bearings are slightly loaded in there normal state. What I did was take out the axle seals and press out the race that had the selective shim. I then pressed the race about 1/2-1/3rd the way in, put the differential in and assembled the case with 6 bolts evenly spaced around the case and tightend them evenly to use the differential to press the race in. I then gave the differential a few good rotation's and then measured the gap between the race and the case where the old selective shim was. Then I added .004" to the thickness Thats my shim thickness. Of course I pressed the race back out and put the shim in and seated the race one last time. I knew it was right on because I first checked my theory on 3 transmissions to make sure it was right. Two turned out to have a shim .004" thicker then the measured gap, and the other had .003" so I know that it was perfectly consistant. especially since the .003 was on a transmission with 215,000 miles on it. That made sense. They had also stated in the manual to use a shim two sizes larger then the measured gap with the "proper tool" each size was in .002" incriments so thats also pointed me toward that .004" number in the first place. I drove my home built getrag cross country just days after installing it. Its been really good to me. It took me 3 days to dissassemble, rework, clean and reassemble the transmission. Its not something I would EVER want to rush. Do it right, do it once.

Also, Matt, they did not change the ring gears, just the center section. So if you want to keep the ring gear with the output shaft that it has been with, by all means go ahead. One strange quirk with getrag differentials though... YOU CANNOT take the pin out of the center section without removing the ring gear. it will hit on the way out by about 1/16", NO other transmission I have ever seen had this strange feature.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 03-15-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: You will also need a 12 point tool special for removing the input and output shaft lockers, they are counter-rotated, so caution should be used. Im not 100% sure a torch is needed, but there is mension of it in the manual. I found it wasnt really necessary. the one thing that creeped me out about the getrag is the fact that 3rd 4th and 5th are PRESSED ON. there is NO keying whatsoever to these gears and theoretically with enough torque will just spin on the shaft. They might have been hot when installed and shrunk onto the shafts.

You don't need a 12 point tool. A hex driver works just fine.

The manual says to pre heat the 2nd gear race, 3-4 output cluster and 5th input before pressing them onto their shafts. I used a heat treating oven for this, although I suppose a torch could be used.

Yes, those gears are pressed (well... heat shrunk) on. Getrag likes that... go ahead, calculate the torque it would take to turn that gear on the shaft. You'll rip all the teeth off before the gear turns on the shaft.

Good idea for dealing with the preload shims on the diff carrier bearings.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-15-2005).]