How's the ball joint tapered hole going to hold up in this spindle made from aluminum? Same question goes for the tie-rod as well thought the ball joint carries more load.
JazzMan
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12:47 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I hate to be "that" guy, but I was curious if any more progress has been made? I've been considering seriously pushing for a similar product development for the 88s in a few months; of course, if debugging is done with the already designed early style setup, it would probably make it somewhat easier to design/build/sell the 88 stuff. So get crackin' Will!
Bryce 88 GT
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11:38 PM
Oct 18th, 2004
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I wanna get cracking, but I got that pesky engine thing to deal with... Car's in the garage right now and I'm going to be starting on pulling and disassembling the engine tonight... Once it's back together and running correctly, the knuckles and brakes are going to be the very next thing...
------------------ Turn the key and feel the engine shake the whole car with its lope; Plant the gas pedal and feel in your chest neither a shriek nor a wail but a bellowing roar; Lift and be pushed into the harness by compression braking that only comes from the biggest cylinders while listening to music of pops and gurgles. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none of them are this cool.
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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08:34 AM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
I was kidding about the "get cracking" part, obviously. I knew you'd had your hands full with the engine lately, wasn't sure if you'd had time to screw with these spindles yet. Thanks for the update.
Bryce 88 GT
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10:45 AM
GSXRBOBBY Member
Posts: 3122 From: Southern Indiana USA Registered: Aug 2003
Getting some small parts and, I hope, some brake brackets soon. Also going to do some modifications to the knuckle... a design provision I didn't think of until recently. Pics to follow.
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08:00 PM
Apr 15th, 2005
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
Pictures soon. Just had the prototype of revision 5 of my caliper bracket done. It may require slight tweaking, but revision 6 should be perfect, even if rev 5 isn't.
Decided against most of the mods I wanted to make. I was going to add a second hole to the steering arm closer to the steering axis to quicken the steering, but that's impractical. I'll see what I can do about getting it into the mold, though.
However, there was only one hole drilled at the end of the spindle for the cotter pin to hold the castle nut. I will drill a second hole at 90 degrees to that and instead of a castle nut, will use jam nut and stamped sheet metal retainer from '91 & '92 F-bodies. This will allow bearing adjustment to be set every 15 degrees rather than every 60.
Quick question Will, I also have the aluminum drop spindles and i'm doing the Bubba 12' brakes, what would you torque the bolts to the caliper bracket attached to the adapter, and the torque setting for the adapter to the spindle? Thanks
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03:50 PM
PFF
System Bot
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Torque the bolts that hold the Corvette bracket to the adapter bracket to Corvette specs (I don't have those, sorry). Torque the bolts that hold the adapter bracket to the knuckle to Fiero specs... which appear to NOT be in the '87 manual.
Use 10.9 or 12.9 class fasteners for brake hardware.
Bubba replied to the torque specs = 45ft lbs for the mount to spindle, 60ft lbs for the caliper to mount.
Oh and Will BTW ......... Can someone please email me the AUTOCAD file of the front brackets. I have the Street Dream Aluminum drop spindles and the front bracket has to milled down from a thickness of .875 to .675. Other brake upgrades(11.25") Grand Am and stock have the front bracket mount on the interior side of the spindle ears, which is the norm and this spindle was designed with mounting within spec of a stock spindle. My spindle has about a 1/4" added material on the outer mountng ears of the spindle and of course thats where the 12" brake adapters mount. I'd really appreciate someone emailing me the front backet design in autocad format. Thanks in advance. Or if someone could cnc a new pair out of steel that would be great as well. Please dont PM me in the Forum as I usually never check it. Thank You.
email: Patrickmcp@hotmail.com
------------------ Patrick Szewczyk 1987 Fiero GT 3800SCII in process!!, Getrag, Spec Stage 3 clutch, Koni's, coilovers in the back, Held anti-bumpsteer kit, lowered 2" -Street Dreams dropped spindles, poly bushings: control arms-sway bars-cradle-dogbone, Bill Levin's awesome lowering engine & tranny mounts, rear sway bar, Darrell Morse's Strut Bar, pioneer cd player, Rodney Dickman's short shifter, bushings, etc..., 12" Corvette calipers & rotors- w/Ebrake, k&n filter, 3800SCII that's in and getting debugged, Fastfiero's pcm-low alt mount-tstat-prj fuel rails,w/ 3.4 pulley, total-seal piston rings, intercooler, comp cams vs cam, ported & matched heads and intake, Performance3800 3" collector headers, full stainless 3" exhaust+flowmaster, + 17x7.5 MiM Venezias wheels + 225/45/17 and 235/40/17's.
Bubba replied to the torque specs = 45ft lbs for the mount to spindle, 60ft lbs for the caliper to mount.
Oh and Will BTW ......... Can someone please email me the AUTOCAD file of the front brackets. I have the Street Dream Aluminum drop spindles and the front bracket has to milled down from a thickness of .875 to .675. Other brake upgrades(11.25") Grand Am and stock have the front bracket mount on the interior side of the spindle ears, which is the norm and this spindle was designed with mounting within spec of a stock spindle. My spindle has about a 1/4" added material on the outer mountng ears of the spindle and of course thats where the 12" brake adapters mount. I'd really appreciate someone emailing me the front backet design in autocad format. Thanks in advance. Or if someone could cnc a new pair out of steel that would be great as well. Please dont PM me in the Forum as I usually never check it. Thank You.
Originally posted by VISCERAL: Bubba replied to the torque specs = 45ft lbs for the mount to spindle, 60ft lbs for the caliper to mount.
Oh and Will BTW ......... Can someone please email me the AUTOCAD file of the front brackets. I have the Street Dream Aluminum drop spindles and the front bracket has to milled down from a thickness of .875 to .675. Other brake upgrades(11.25") Grand Am and stock have the front bracket mount on the interior side of the spindle ears, which is the norm and this spindle was designed with mounting within spec of a stock spindle. My spindle has about a 1/4" added material on the outer mountng ears of the spindle and of course thats where the 12" brake adapters mount. I'd really appreciate someone emailing me the front backet design in autocad format. Thanks in advance. Or if someone could cnc a new pair out of steel that would be great as well. Please dont PM me in the Forum as I usually never check it. Thank You.
email: Patrickmcp@hotmail.com
The 60 ftlbs number is NOT CORRECT for the 11.25" brake application. That's for Corvette calipers to bubba joe's brackets. For the 11.25" spec, look up the corresponding spec for S-10 Pickup, T-10 Blazer or Camaro (82-92) calipers. I know you're using 12" brakes, but not everyone is. DO NOT MACHINE YOUR KNUCKLES. They are exactly opposite of the way you think they are. The extra thickness in the caliper mounting ears was added on the inside. Any brake kit that bolts to the outer face of the caliper mounting ears will work just fine. The thickness was added to insure adequate strength of the aluminum. Since the hub flange is too big to fit inside the Grand Am rotors anyway, I thought it was a waste of time to try to make the Fiero/Grand Am brackets fit.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-28-2005).]
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08:55 AM
Jun 1st, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
After several revisions, I finally got my caliper brackets just so. These brackets are specifically made to work with the Street Dreams knuckles and my hubs, although they will work with the stock knuckles as well.
As you can see, it's a snug fit around for the caliper and the Street Dreams hubs that I designed. This was done to maximize section thickness to increase strength. I think that these brackets could be made out of aluminum. The caliper pictured is the S10 caliper discussed throughout this whole thread. Here is a pic of how the S10 and Camaro calipers differ:
The Camaro caliper is on the left and aside from the different banjo fitting location, has this "wart" on the side of it. Obviously my brackets will not work with this caliper. That's fine with me as relieving the bracket to clear this wart removes far more section thickness than it's worth. The S10 caliper thus allows the caliper bracket to be made stronger than the Camaro caliper does.
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11:45 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Whether to use the LeBaron rear rotor or front rotor has been an enduring question for me... so naturally I set things up to do it BOTH ways.
The LeBaron rear rotor, which is the one usually used for this swap, will locate on the rotor pilot journal in the usual place in the center of the hub flange. The pads in the S10 caliper will hang over the edges just a little bit, but ALL of the Zettner based kits have that issue. In order to use the rear rotor, use 0.325" thick spacers between the caliper bracket and the outboard face of the caliper mounting ears on the knuckle.
The LeBaron front rotor is, IMNSHO, a better rotor. It has a wider friction surface so that the pads don't hang off and more conventional venting. It also has a larger hub pilot diameter (thanks, Chrysler). However the ID of the hat section is machined and will locate properly on the OD of the wheel mounting flange of the hubs I designed. In order to use the front rotor, which I recommend, use 0.650" thick spacers.
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11:50 PM
Jun 5th, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Okay Will, you'ved dragged it out of me. I really, really, really enjoy your writeups and the excellent way you present them. I appreciate how you go way into the reasoning behind your work. I am super impressed with your knowledge and skill and quite frankly wonder how you, as a Fiero owner have all this money and time to put into it?
Oh, and that wasn't really a suck up, just a super enthusiastic response so you don't get frustrated and go MIA on us.
------------------ John DuRette Custom 85 ; 87 Coupe in the driveway. "Kinda makes you nostalgic for a Members Only jacket"
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11:26 PM
Jun 6th, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I know that these are an expensive pill and Fiero owners are cheap, but SOMEBODY has to be sufficiently interested to comment...
I got your aluminium spindles and hubs for my car last year. I wanted to toss the chopped springs and lower my car with stock springs for a better ride. I also wanted to offset the added weight of the Zettner brake conversion. Those Lebaron rotors and big cast calipers add a lot and it is noticeable! The lighter spindle and hub brings everything back. I've been every pleased with them and definitely recommend them!
Originally posted by fierosound: I got your aluminium spindles and hubs for my car last year. I wanted to toss the chopped springs and lower my car with stock springs for a better ride. I also wanted to offset the added weight of the Zettner brake conversion. Those Lebaron rotors and big cast calipers add a lot and it is noticeable! The lighter spindle and hub brings everything back. I've been every pleased with them and definitely recommend them!
Excellent! I've been wondering if anyone had these on the road yet. Great to hear that you like them. Better than just the weight reduction is the fact that the bigger bearings add a LOT of durability to the setup.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-28-2005).]
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09:51 PM
Jun 29th, 2005
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
