Build a shifter. When it goes to the "D" position, have a slot left and right and the shifter pivot that way. Slap left to downshift, right to upshift (or vice versa) and have it hit micro switches on each side. That part would be a piece of cake as compared to a steering paddle shifter.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by malacite: i would be interested if there were a way to do it as a ratchet shifter. the paddles would just be a little annoying...

How does downshifting work? I have a VW with a 5-speed tip. I pretty much keep it in manual mode all the time because the shifts are pretty quick. In my regular driving, I do all my upshifts like normal, but when I'm slowing down to a stoplight, I let the transmission downshift on it's own. I usually only downshift when I need to pass in traffic or in preperation for a upcoming corner.

Will this setup also do that, or do you have to control all of your downshifts at all times?

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: Will this setup also do that, or do you have to control all of your downshifts at all times?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: It's a semiautomatic... or a manumatic... or... well... yeah. Just picture it to be a clutchless manual. You have to shift it. (OR... like a auto with a manual valve body! That's what I was trying to think of.)

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 03-13-2005).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: in other words, to increase engine braking? If that's the case, just shift using the regular shift knob... It feels like a manual (quite noticeable braking) in every gear except 4th/OD. I don't think locking the TCC will do much to increase braking, since I think that's mainly a function of a clutch that's attached to the manual valve circuit (again)... but I don't know.

No, the TCC clutch is responsible for engine braking in all gears, but ESPECIALLY in 4th. Since engine RPM is typically lower in 4th gear, the torque convertor is below its coupling speed and you get significantly degraded engine braking without the TCC locked. When it's in a given gear, it's no different than a manual... except for the convertor. The only clutch that directly connects the engine to the driveline is the TCC. Now there are overrun clutches in the transmission, but they do NOT provide engine braking by themselves.

Moving the shifter pressurizes different hydraulic circuits along the way... you definitely want to look into how playing with the shift solenoids will affect things when the shifter is NOT in drive.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-13-2005).]

You're probably right, I'll have to do some investigation..

quote Originally posted by Will: Moving the shifter pressurizes different hydraulic circuits along the way... you definitely want to look into how playing with the shift solenoids will affect things when the shifter is NOT in drive.

You mean like commanding 4th gear when the shifter is in first, or some other naughtyness? That's been taken care of - you can't shift higher than the gear the manual shift arm is in. Although... I wonder if you could get it into neutral by doing something like that... That could come in handy.

I occasionaly run my 4.9 4T60E with the transmission isolated from the ecm. It has never caused a code or problem.

On the two wires coming off the ecm that control the shift solenoids, I have a double pole double pole switch. In one position, it lets the ecm control the trans. In the second position, it transfers control to a pair of switches on the shifter that control the shifts.
There are no automatic features at all when in this mode.

Gene

Ryan, to make it switch into neutral, reverse, drive and park on its own, you can simply run a servo powered my your microcontroller (or a stepper motor) to use the existing cable select to shift the car, a push button on the display would allow the user to choose the gear they wished (recessed buttos for reverse and park). The force needed to move the cable on a 4t60e is increased by the metal band bolted on the bottom of the valve body to ensure you feel when its in gear. If the tensioner is removed, the cable position may be precisely manipulated with a servo using feedback control. removing the tensioner arm can be done by anyone that can change thier own tranny fluid and read instructions. You may want to look at this as an add in option.

memory is sketchy, but i dont think there is engine braking at all in 4 or 3 (maybe not 2) when the shifter is in the OD position. this is regardless of tcc lockup, this is to prevent you from feeling the downshift under normal decel. the overrun clutch (way down in the trans) only locks with hydralic control. yes?

quote Originally posted by ricreatr: memory is sketchy, but i dont think there is engine braking at all in 4 or 3 (maybe not 2) when the shifter is in the OD position. this is regardless of tcc lockup, this is to prevent you from feeling the downshift under normal decel. the overrun clutch (way down in the trans) only locks with hydralic control. yes?

That's what I was thinking...... But I don't know for sure, reading hydraulic diagrams isn't my forté.

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: The force needed to move the cable on a 4t60e is increased by the metal band bolted on the bottom of the valve body to ensure you feel when its in gear. If the tensioner is removed, the cable position may be precisely manipulated with a servo using feedback control.

Hmm... that's interesting. I don't have any experience with servos, but that might be something to look into for future revisions.

are you using a microcontroller for this setup, I assume you are, if so, you may be able to get a servo driver chip and hook up the servo, basically it will rotate 90 degrees and tell the microcontroller where it is. The 90 degrees can be made into infinate degrees by simply removing a plastic nub on the internal side of the drive wheel. the feedback controll still works.

As I have been working on my Fiero, I haven't been on here in a little while. While hunting down a 4t80e I had been dreaming about the posibility of semiautomatic shifting...and my dream came true! I love the aluminum paddles and I'm diggin' the price. I can't wait to order one!

-Cory

I am also very interested in this..... I am just about to put a 60e in with my 3100. Lets see if I understand this. I will be using an OBDI system to control the 3100 and I wont need ANY programing in it for the tranny? The system that you are creating has a control box that makes ECM tranny control unneccessary. Let me know if that is correct.

How about having the Gear indicator inserted in one or both of the control paddles?

When this is ready for sale I am ready to buy.........

Keep us posted

[This message has been edited by rvalmore (edited 03-15-2005).]

quote Originally posted by rvalmore: I will be using an OBDI system to control the 3100 and I wont need ANY programing in it for the tranny? The system that you are creating has a control box that makes ECM tranny control unneccessary. Let me know if that is correct. How about having the Gear indicator inserted in one or both of the control paddles?

The transmission will no longer plug into the factory ECM. Any programming for the tranny left in the factory ECM will just set codes. The 60e is less sophisticated than the other two, so it might not even do that. While it will have a gear indicator, I don't plan on putting them in the paddles..... but you're welcome to rig something up yourself.

How long before you think you have these available? Can we prepay you a deposit to get in line for the units?So would you reprogram the ECU to thinks its a manual or just leave it as an auto?

[This message has been edited by rvalmore (edited 03-15-2005).]

Running with my 4T60E disconnected from the ecm has never set a code.

Gene

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I think you'd also need an encoder in case something binds, or slips or whatever... just so you know where the action arm is at at all times.

How about using a visual display that reads on the original shift surround indicator to keep things simple, like an orange tab that moves with the head of the shift cable. Not that an encoder would be hard to make, but KISS right, Keep It Simple Stupid! thats what I have always learned. Either way, its a viable option that could be implimented easily.

quote Originally posted by rvalmore: How long before you think you have these available? Can we prepay you a deposit to get in line for the units?So would you reprogram the ECU to thinks its a manual or just leave it as an auto?

I'd say a couple weeks *minimum* until they're ready. Possibly as long as a month. As of yet, it is UNTESTED for the 60e and 65e, so I will get a few beta testers to put some miles on them first. I don't want any deposits or anything. If you want you can send me an email so I can update you the moment they're ready to ship.. Reprogramming the ECU for a manual may be necessary for the 65e and 80e, I don't think it is necessary for the 60e. If this becomes too much of a problem, I may have to figure out a tranny simulator. Hopefully it won't come to that though, my plate's full enough thank you

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: How about using a visual display that reads on the original shift surround indicator to keep things simple, like an orange tab that moves with the head of the shift cable. Not that an encoder would be hard to make, but KISS right, Keep It Simple Stupid! thats what I have always learned. Either way, its a viable option that could be implimented easily.

I'm just saying for the TCM to know where the lever actually is vs. where it *should be*, it should have some kind of encoder saying "the shaft turned 1.78 turns when you told it to turn 2"

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: Hi all, I wish I could fully answer your ?, but a better one would be what cars don't come with these auto setups........I know that doesn't help much, and I am sorry for that.......

Here is a link to the 60*V6 that gives info on this and much more for the 60e anyway.

http://60degreev6.com/hlperf/60V6%20Site%20Files/4T60E.htm

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I'd say a couple weeks *minimum* until they're ready. Possibly as long as a month. As of yet, it is UNTESTED for the 60e and 65e, so I will get a few beta testers to put some miles on them first. I don't want any deposits or anything. If you want you can send me an email so I can update you the moment they're ready to ship.. Reprogramming the ECU for a manual may be necessary for the 65e and 80e, I don't think it is necessary for the 60e. If this becomes too much of a problem, I may have to figure out a tranny simulator. Hopefully it won't come to that though, my plate's full enough thank you

I'm sure you already know the operating details of the 80... but reprogramming the Caddy computer or going with a standalone with DEFINITELY be necessary for this mod.
Dunno about the 65

quote Originally posted by Will: I'm sure you already know the operating details of the 80... but reprogramming the Caddy computer or going with a standalone with DEFINITELY be necessary for this mod. Dunno about the 65

Sorry, my bad. Meant to say "will be" not "may be". The 65e has a lot of the same crap the the 80e does, so I'm sure unplugging it will make the ECM very unhappy.

btw - Cliff, if you're reading this - I want to express my gratitude for PFF, which is a great place to get feedback on new stuff. So, a portion of the sales will go to you as a 'thanks for keeping this place alive'.

Ryan I sent you an email did you get it?
So is one paddle for up shifting and one for downshifting?If not how would you downshift.

Yep, sorry, I thought I replied to it already. Guess not. Reply sent. Yes, one paddle is for upshift, one for downshift.

Well, this week wasn't as productive as I would've hoped... I got suckered into doing some tile work, and my computer's power supply took a dump... it's been a very eventful week

But I promised pics, so here's what I've got so far:

It's a fairly compact unit. Not waterproof, so you'll have to keep that in mind when mounting it. I think they will come with the wiring harness (without the tranny connector of course... you supply that). I'm trying to figure out something for the display. I'd rather have a connector than have you guys solder the wires directly to the display board, but I don't want it any bigger than it already is...

Your choice of red or green for the display color....... Dimmer adjust can be seen on the right. Shoot, forgot to put something next to it to show size. Okay, here it is sitting on a disk (blurry and off center - I know. Camera sucks):

I figure the display won't come with an enclosure in case somebody wants to mount it in their dash, or some other place. I still haven't mounted mine yet... any thoughts?

So anyway, there's still quite a bit of work left, and I won't have as much time to work on it from here on out..... BUT.. I'll try to get everything in order ASAP for you people who need a TCM soon.

That looks great!!! Keep it up. I know that this will be something several will want. So we'll need to create a harness from tranny to Ecu, then you'll have the wiring from teh ECU out to the paddles/switches and LED is that correct?

What about sticking that in the switch panel where the trunk release switch is? It might be a little off to the side, but it would look nice there.

I haven't driven my Fiero in a while, so maybe it isn't even in a good viewable spot there, but just an idea.

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: What about sticking that in the switch panel where the trunk release switch is? It might be a little off to the side, but it would look nice there. I haven't driven my Fiero in a while, so maybe it isn't even in a good viewable spot there, but just an idea.

Hey, that's a great idea! I'll have to fish around there to see if that works. Right now, I have the display sitting on the passenger seat, and I can tell what gear I'm in through the corner of my eye..... so anything physically closer will make it even easier.

The kit will include ALL the wiring, minus the transmission connector (can't find a source for them new). "Some soldering required" to attach the transmission connector, and wire it up, but nothing that would take long at all.

Yeah, if we can figure out a standardized place to put the display, that would be perfect...... then I could put a connector somewhere where it won't interfere with anything, and make it that much easier.

Cool...Do I win a paddle shifter setup....J/K

You know, alot of cars just have blank covers there. My parts car did. I even saved the cover for future use (I'm a packrat so I am told). But my GT of course has a switch there, and also the defrost switch below it.

I am planning on moving switches around when I redo my interior anyways, so putting it in place of the trunk switch will work for me.

Besides, think about it...which should be in view of the person driving. A switch that pops the trunbk, or an LED that tells him what gear he is in?...LOL

it would be cool if you could find a way to put it in the center of the steering wheel, the indicator that is.

I wonder if it is bright enough to reflect off the windshield like the Heads Up Display does in my GTP?

Does the unit use any means of limiting downshifts above a certain speed, or is it strictly manual up and down?

Gene

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Ugh... why are my images always blurry?

I've got a nice Minolta Dimage Z1 that would fix that image problem. I'd probably even trade it for one of these shiftymajiggy's for my 4T65E-HD

Kris

------------------

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: Cool...Do I win a paddle shifter setup....J/K .... Besides, think about it...which should be in view of the person driving. A switch that pops the trunbk, or an LED that tells him what gear he is in?...LOL

Yes, you just have to pay a $150 handling fee ...And exactly...

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: it would be cool if you could find a way to put it in the center of the steering wheel, the indicator that is.

You mean the horn button? I don't think that would work. Unless you mean on top of the column or something... But you're welcome to figure out your own mounting location, and post back here

quote Originally posted by scrabblegod: I wonder if it is bright enough to reflect off the windshield like the Heads Up Display does in my GTP? Does the unit use any means of limiting downshifts above a certain speed, or is it strictly manual up and down? Gene

Not the displays I'm using... But I could probably point you to something that will work as a HUD. It is strictly a manual, so there's nothing preventing you from downshifting to first at 60mph. On the brightside, if you have a 3.4DOHC, there's nothing preventing you from downshifting to first at 60mph.

quote Originally posted by shop_rat45: I've got a nice Minolta Dimage Z1 that would fix that image problem. I'd probably even trade it for one of these shiftymajiggy's for my 4T65E-HD Kris

I'll think about it

Just a friendly BUMP. Want to keep an eye on this. I want really bad........I am holding off my 3100/4t60e swap until this is ready....... LMK when we can do business!!!!]

I'm in ryan
my 4t65e-hd is in the shop getting ready and next winter will be time to do the heads of my north* but i will need the shifter prior to that
are you sure there isn't a way to have the pads turning with the wheel

keep it up and keep us posted
marc g.