Almost got the new tranny finished. Ive been working on it the past two days and its about 90% done now. I think ive decided what Im gonna do. If this tranny holds for 1 pass on the street, im taking it straight to the track. Im going to get my mid 10 second pass and then retire the engine in X. I have come to the conclusion that #1 this engine is too powerful for pretty much any FWD transmission. and #2 my car has been down way too much and its no longer fun to break stuff and then back to the drawing board. Ive put 800 miles on my car in the last 15 months. Thats not fun. Ive spent over $8000 in parts getting everything together, 2 engines, 3 transmissions, 2 turbos, and all the electronics to make it all work. Not fun when its $10 per mile. So the tranny is about done, i may be going to the track tomorrow to see if itll hold or blow. I vote for explode, that way if it does break I wont be shocked.
Oh and btw, I broke the drive chain and ruined the drive sprockets, destroyed all of the clutches, and one of the clutch drums. The tranny had less than 600 miles on it, and most of the miles were just cruising around miles. I would say it had about 30-35 hard passes on it, and maybe 10 dyno pulls.
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09:21 PM
PFF
System Bot
jsmorter1 Member
Posts: 674 From: Creston, Ohio Registered: Jun 2004
------------------ Paul Home Built Tube Chassis IMSA Race Car - 3.8 lb./hp | 1987 Fiero GT 119,xxx, 3.1 motor, HHP swaybar, Full poly For more IMSA Fiero info: http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/789315
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09:44 PM
wetpoop Member
Posts: 921 From: Baltimore Maryland USA Registered: Feb 2004
What you are describing is the downfall of having such powerfull machines. "reliability" and of course the cost associated with it. But hey either you love or hate it, and it seems as though you are madly in love with. regarlessof what happens have fun and be safe.
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09:48 PM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
welp, I guess Ill go ahead and spill the beans. If i get my 10 second pass, Im going to "retire" the engine and put a mild 3800 supercharged back in there. Put it back up in the low 12's and keep it reliable. I know my tranny could live forever on 300 wheel hp. Then im going to find a 95-97 3800 Auto firebird. You all can probably guess the rest. Keep it looking bone stock, setup the suspension for some horaspowars, get the 4L60e built (there are guys running high 9s on 4L60e's, 700 hp aprox), put some drag radials on those stock rims and take it to other towns and make money. KC, OKC, Tulsa youre in trouble. Im talking stock exhaust on one side, keep it nice and quiet and stock sounding, and an electric cutout on the other side, oh boy you just woke the demon. Interior all stock, no roll bars, stock firebird badging, so everyone knows its a V6, and nothing but pure annihilation, pay me.
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04:13 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
We learned it wasnt the heads. Its a combo of 2 things that is bringing the power band down. Cam vs turbine selection. My turbine is a .70 a/r. Medium sized really. my combo would be better suited with a .84, with a smaller cam. My cam is good for high rpm horsepower, but the turbine is good for low end spool. So this is causing 2 things overall, slow spool, with bad high rpm response. So heres what I need, a smaller cam to help the low end torque (seriously for the first 1 second my moms stock grand prix gt could own me), then a larger turbine to keep the power going up high. Well I dont have my new cam yet, and I found out my old t04e 60 trim turbine (.84 a/r) wont fit my p-trim turbine wheel. So, I ported the living hell out of my .70 a/r the other day when i was bored. It should flow some air of massiveness now. I think that should also help it spool faster too. I never realized how roughly cast it was. The divider between the ports literally had 3/16" of material. Talk about a dead wall. So, if this works out Im going to get ahold of erson and get another cam on order. I think i can put down 520 wheel hp and 560 wheel tq pretty easily. Should be decent for the firebird. I want my old fiero back. I loved going on the power tour and such, and now im paranoid to drive it to my dads house 20 miles away because I probably wont make it home.
[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 05-28-2005).]
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04:23 AM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
Yo X, i have been following your threads pretty close, and it seems to me that you are a pretty good fabricator, why not just go ahead and build a tube frame, and design your own custom fiberglass body, make it street legal and use your massive engine. this way you could make it look any way you wanted, it would be very light, and it would probably be a faster car than the FB. just a thought. i just think it would be cool. This way you could still have a MR car with a FR tranny to hold all that power, and have one of the baddest cars on 4 wheels with a little practice on the fiberglass. well man i hope everything works out, i have really enjoyed your threads and am amazed how you got that much hp out of a 3800, although i was wanting to see the tranny hold in the Fiero, well lata man, oh ya and good luck ! ---Tim--- 85 sport coupe 4 cyl 5 speed 86 SE V6 auto
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05:13 AM
hugh Member
Posts: 5563 From: Clementon,NJ,USA Registered: Jun 2000
welp, I guess Ill go ahead and spill the beans. If i get my 10 second pass, Im going to "retire" the engine and put a mild 3800 supercharged back in there. Put it back up in the low 12's and keep it reliable. I know my tranny could live forever on 300 wheel hp. Then im going to find a 95-97 3800 Auto firebird. You all can probably guess the rest. Keep it looking bone stock, setup the suspension for some horaspowars, get the 4L60e built (there are guys running high 9s on 4L60e's, 700 hp aprox), put some drag radials on those stock rims and take it to other towns and make money. KC, OKC, Tulsa youre in trouble. Im talking stock exhaust on one side, keep it nice and quiet and stock sounding, and an electric cutout on the other side, oh boy you just woke the demon. Interior all stock, no roll bars, stock firebird badging, so everyone knows its a V6, and nothing but pure annihilation, pay me.
Nice plan!! The 3800 Firebird might even have better weight transfer than a V8 because the engine's CG is farther back. Not to mention the fact that you can sit there blipping the throttle all day and it sound just like a stock V6.... that's beautiful.
dont know if Ill make it to the track or not. Its open tonite until about midnight, but if i cant get my car put together by 7 or so, Im not going to go. i still have to put the turbo stuff back on, but the tranny is done and the suspension is back on and the cradle is back in. ok gotta go.
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04:06 PM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Didnt make it to the track. 2 things happened. First off, I got everything back together, and had it up on jack stands running the tranny through the gears. I put it in reverse, wheels turned forward. Moved the shifter to neutral, it kept accelerating, put it in drive same thing. all the way to low. So I put it on the ground and rolled it into the street. Put it in reverse. Car moved forward. Neutral moved the car forward. What the hell. So about that time my shifter cable broke. out came the vice grips. So now Ive got it in the street. Had a buddy hold the brake while I put it in drive manually. Drove around for awhile nicely getting fluid through all the clutches etc. Line pressure was a a little low 200 psi at WOT. So I hooked boost to the modulator getting pressure to 260 or so. Thats where i need it. Took it out and it shifts good. I think I can make a pass with it at the track and itll hold. So i got the clutches a little more broke in, and the reverse=forward neutral=forward thing went away. Now reverse=neutral and neutral=neutral. WTF??? It runs good in drive, but I have no reverse whatsoever, unless my buddies are pushing.
So I decided not to take it to the track for some no shifter no reverse action. Im not going to fix the no reverse problem. Im going to take it to the track next weekend after I fix the shifter, run my pass and get the car down to my new house. Next comes project X back to the 12's and reliable and firebirdX. Should make for an action packed next year.
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01:27 AM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
I just dont get this thing. Ive now rebuilt the transmission 3 times in 1000 miles. I definitely know what im doing inside a 4t60e. Oh well. I dont even care anymore. This thing is not fun anymore. Its just become a big hassle and has put me in so much debt that its nearly impossible to avoid bankruptcy. I just want to make my 10 second pass and move on with my life.
The question is do you want to be an internet hero? or have fun beating yourself (philosophical sense)
You have done it for the longest...enjoy your ride! someone will always break the record, then it would matter who got there first would it?...as a matter of fact...there is a fiero 3800 v6 turbo + 4t60-non E in the mid tens...AND NO HE ISN'T ON THE BOARDS!!
------------------ the ORIGINAL 3800 II v6 intercooled turbo...
The question is do you want to be an internet hero? or have fun beating yourself (philosophical sense)
You have done it for the longest...enjoy your ride! someone will always break the record, then it would matter who got there first would it?...as a matter of fact...there is a fiero 3800 v6 turbo + 4t60-non E in the mid tens...AND NO HE ISN'T ON THE BOARDS!!
Well I havent seen a timeslip nor video, neither has anyone on this forum except you so it doesnt count. I could tell you I saw a 7 second fiero 3800 V6 turbo but he isnt on the boards either so does it count also?
Keep it looking bone stock, setup the suspension for some horaspowars, get the 4L60e built (there are guys running high 9s on 4L60e's, 700 hp aprox), put some drag radials on those stock rims and take it to other towns and make money. KC, OKC, Tulsa youre in trouble. Im talking stock exhaust on one side, keep it nice and quiet and stock sounding, and an electric cutout on the other side, oh boy you just woke the demon. Interior all stock, no roll bars, stock firebird badging, so everyone knows its a V6, and nothing but pure annihilation, pay me.
quote
Originally posted by fieroX:na dont need a trailer, Ive got AAA, haha.
Lol, I love your style. Go sleepers!
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01:43 AM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Well I havent seen a timeslip nor video, neither has anyone on this forum except you so it doesnt count. I could tell you I saw a 7 second fiero 3800 V6 turbo but he isnt on the boards either so does it count also
Ryan lol!!...do you actually believe that?...this board as big as it might seem is so small it is only significant to those here...I know off a vendor based out here in California where most of his sales are from NON-board members...
Regardless I wish you well...you have pushed the envelope so far and long in your way...hope your trials and tribulation will be used by others...
BTW 4t80e lol!!
[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 05-30-2005).]
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03:44 PM
May 31st, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by fieroX: Oh and btw, I broke the drive chain and ruined the drive sprockets, destroyed all of the clutches, and one of the clutch drums. The tranny had less than 600 miles on it, and most of the miles were just cruising around miles. I would say it had about 30-35 hard passes on it, and maybe 10 dyno pulls.
Was that the built 60? YOu running a 65 now?
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11:16 PM
Jun 1st, 2005
Rare87GT Member
Posts: 5062 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Oct 2001
Yeah, that was the built 60. The reason im so reluctant to go with the 65 or 80 even is because my exhaust system is built for the 60. The crossover pipe is very closely ran next to the trans case, and the boss that sticks up there where the plug is on the 65 would be in the way of my exhaust. So I would have to completely redo my exhaust system and boost piping system. THEN, im not guaranteed anything with a 65e either. I could end up spending another $3000 on a tranny that will fail me. Not to mention rewiring the whole car, new computer system and tuning, axles, etc. Now we just opened a whole new can of worms that might not even pay off. Same goes for the 80. Yeah, they came with northstars on them. Wow, i make as much power as 2 northstars. And hell that thing might not even fit in there with all the pipe work it needs (intercooler etc). So I think my best bet is going to be to put it in a car where I can have a tranny built that has a warranty and guaranteed to 700 crank hp, put out 600, and make it live for awhile. Then put X back to a 12.00 car, get the paint job ive wanted for 3 years and make it a nice driver without having to worry about what im breaking next week. Take it on the power tour again, and have some fun for a change. Rebuilding trannys every month isnt fun. I dont run a tranny shop here.
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02:04 AM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
Something else you can add to that is: there is no such thing as a reliable sub-11sec daily driver street car... Unless of course you have very deep pockets and even then I have seen $100k+ cars break at the track too... So really your only choice is between having an insanely fast car that gets trailered to the track that will eventually break sooner or later or something quick (but not fast) that you can jump into and feel comfortible driving across the country in. Or you can gamble on a delicate balance between the two and just expect to have to repair breakages sometime in the future. Its all about what you are willing to tolerate.
I feel for X tho, I have sunk close to $15k into my 87 GTA over the years and it is a 350V8 car that runs low 13's and gets worse gas mileage than my Fiero. I say sunk because I have been thru 2 4L60-E transmissions and 2 engines in that car, and mind you this is only a low 13 sec car making 400 crank HP. I can't imagine what kind of money I would have in the dumb thing nor how many parts I would be breaking if it ran faster. It no longer serves any practical purpose for me and that is why it is for sale and that is why I can relate to what X is feeling. I am sick of messing with it when the only advantage it has over the Fiero is high-speed stability and handling...
good luck X.... i have also been following you from the beginning. i REALLY hope you make your goal. i have been wanting to build a copy of your car for a while, but now am leaning towards the northstar for the 4t80e. BUT it will not be the same, to do it with a V8 compared to a V6, probably the same you feel. i´m now following the northstar turbo project by PBJ.
GOOD LUCK MAN, you're gonna make it!!! remember the vid of it.
one of your fans hans
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05:57 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by fieroX: So I think my best bet is going to be to put it in a car where I can have a tranny built that has a warranty and guaranteed to 700 crank hp, put out 600, and make it live for awhile.
Instead of a 4th gen Firebird, put your engine and 4L60E (or 65E... or even 80E or 85E) into a Buick Regal of the GN vintage. Then destroy all the factory block GN records with your factory block 3800 S2.
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: the only advantage it has over the Fiero is high-speed stability and handling...
That can be fixed easily enough... No reason at all an F-body should handle better than a Fiero
