i just wanted to own page 2

It definately isn't something I plan on doing to one of mine any time soon, but I will have to commend you on trying something different. I think it would look a lot better molded into the bumper; just sitting on there like that though, isn't too appealing for me.

Some trimming and a lot of molding and it could have potential. Right now, they both look odd. Theres obvious lines that show its just bolted on. All the gaps need to be filled and it all needs to be blended together so it looks like one piece, not 2 stuck together.

But I get the feeling thats where you're going with it anyway. Just wanted to throw that out there.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: JScott1 and Oslo: Just an FYI, the center sections in your "diffusers" are going to restrict airflow under the car. That will cause lift and increase drag. I'm referring to the downward-angled parts on either side of where the license plate used to be. You should cut those parts out. (I can whip up an image if necessary)

Hmm, Reading this and I agree. I came up with a few designs but I suck at photoshop. I think it would be cool to have a part that covers the bottom of the exhaust tips, and slope UP in the center. The pieces under the tips would follow the same (rear to front) " \ " shape as the center section...

EDIT: actually, I just found this pic, its close to what I was thinkin..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 05-31-2005).]

I've been thinking about making something like Jncomutt posted, but I'm looking for a good place to mount it first. At the same time though, I would like to build something that is actually functional and not just a fiberglass piece that does nothing. Has anyone ever tried covering up some of the cradle so that it is flat under the engine compartment? I wonder how it would affect heat build up....

jncomutt: I agree. I'm wondering if one could cut out the center part and flip it over so it's right-side-up again (and fill in the license plate hole). That would solve the lift problem.

quote JScott1 and Oslo: Just an FYI, the center sections in your "diffusers" are going to restrict airflow under the car. That will cause lift and increase drag. I'm referring to the downward-angled parts on either side of where the license plate used to be. You should cut those parts out. ]

It may seem this way but actually the downward section is not in the direct flow path. It appears in some pictures that the flow is just cruising along and suddenly encounters a downward angled section. But in fact it is a triangle and imagine that the base is the flow path. In order for the flow to get to the angled section it would have to somehow turn and go up, the downward turn would cancel it out so the net affect is zero. If anything it would be a low pressure area and create downforce.

I haven't tested this theory but I have had the diffuser in triple digits MPH and the handling was not negatively affected in any way that I could tell.

By the way, the other inspiration for the shape of my diffuser was the stabilators on the F-22 Raptor. I'm even thinking af adding actuators so I can change the pitch in flight...err I mean drive.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-01-2005).]

quote In order for the flow to get to the angled section it would have to somehow turn and go up, the downward turn would cancel it out so the net affect is zero. If anything it would be a low pressure area and create downforce.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Maybe we should just leave it at that.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 06-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I wish someone could photoshop what Curley is talking about because I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Also I plan to add a couple more of those hidden brackets that I was talking about to further level the diffuser. You can see in the above shot that it's not quite level, and I think I am going to angle it up a little more too in addition to further trimming. Those changes along with smoothing it in and an appropriate paint scheme and I think the diffuser will look right on my car. Is it for every Fiero? no, but it does fit with the theme that I am going with. I want the car to look like an arrow moving forward cleanly through the air.

Jscott as far as the trimming is concerned, i think Curly means cutting this section off. Basically connect the blue dots and that is the area
that would then produce the straight line he is talking about.

Sorry for my crude presentation, not too good at doctoring up pictures.

Madcurl is this what you mean ?

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 06-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I'm sorry, but I disagree. Maybe we should just leave it at that.

It's okay to disagree, I'm just trying to explain what the underside looks like. I could put a flat plate under the diffuser and completly elliminate any possibility of the air being turned down.

Exotic, I did a quick and dirty of your connect the dots...maybe is this what Curley had in mind??

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Maybe it looks better without it, maybe not. But I'm going to keep working with it and in the end if I don't like it I can always take it off. Just like any other mod, some will like it and some won't... and by the way I did take a torn Fiero bumper and bolt it on.

ha, ya i guesse you did!
just dont glass it on till your absolutely 100% positive and sure... in fact, i dont know if you should ever glass it on, becuase you might change your mind in time, and it would be a hell of a mess to clean up!

quote Originally posted by NotAFieroAnyLonger: sidenote... I have been doing alot of research on the air flow around cars in general... I have been convinced that the air flows alot, I mean alot better if it does'nt have any kind of defuser at all.... It will flow better if it is opened up... minus the rear defuser... JMO... Steve

anyone have any thought...

quote Originally posted by rmphoto: i dont know if you should ever glass it on, becuase you might change your mind in time, and it would be a hell of a mess to clean up!

Not really, I have spare rear fascias. This isn't the fascia that came with the car anyway.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Exotic, I did a quick and dirty of your connect the dots...maybe is this what Curley had in mind??

I think so but i think he was suggesting carrying the straight line even further like so ( Curly qoute -" IMO it <referring to straight line trimming> should also include part of the 1/2 squared area over the two exhausts. " )

Not sure if that L shape is the angle he would use, but that is what i got from his description, either that or just making it straight all the way across eliminating the flap.

He then also suggested adding side flares like the highlighted area on this car.

quote Originally posted by jscott1:

Now that looks cool.

quote Originally posted by exoticse: I think so but i think he was suggesting carrying the straight line even further like so ( Curly qoute -" IMO it <referring to straight line trimming> should also include part of the 1/2 squared area over the two exhausts. " ) Not sure if that L shape is the angle he would use, but that is what i got from his description, either that or just making it straight all the way across eliminating the flap. He then also suggested adding side flares like the highlighted area on this car.

Yep. That's the ticket. Next, photo-shop cutout a middle section similar to the Celica or Ford Probe. Start maybe 2-3" before each exhaust opening begins. This will give the added part a 3-d view or depth. You can also leave a 2-3"section in the middle too for a bridge-like appearance

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Now that looks cool.

This change required very little to accomplish, all I did was widen the center section and smooth in the sides. I think a bridge across the center or an additional cutout would be the final ticket. I'll give that a photoshop when I get home tonight.

Yeah and add led in the flat parts

Smooth's sidenote...
"I have been doing alot of research on the air flow around cars in general"

Yeah Steve WE all find that statement very funny ! There is my thoughts on that

With the "extra" material that is to be cut-off...you can place that on the forward part of the exhaust opening---giving it a sledge like look?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: With the "extra" material that is to be cut-off...you can place that on the forward part of the exhaust opening---giving it a sledge like look?

..guess one of these days you'll win a "Fiero Recycling" award

a couple of those look good. might have to try chopping up a rear facia myself.

I've been thinking of this for a few weeks too. Here's my photoshop effort for everyone to ponder.

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: oh well..tried some things with this pic and jscotts jetfighter inspiration...orig: guess it needs some 'mirror' matching with the wing

Glad to see the creative juices are flowing... Madcurl will be the first to tell you that a bolt on piece is just the starting point. This diffuser has a lot of potential. I like the matching vortilons it does follow the jet fighter look that I was going for.

And Helmet's idea is awesome. Forget the photoshop I'm ready to get the saw and flexible filler out to start shaping the diffuser!

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-01-2005).]

Helmet1978 and JScott's new rendering look good IMO. Cutting a little more off the bottom line should do the trick IMO.

The “Diffuser” shouldn't be lower than the front fascia (addition) spoiler IMO.... evening out the two parts (front and rear). All you need is "just of touch" to draw the eyes towards the unique part but, not enough to keep them there but for the eyes to move on. A person can always go back and recheck to see what they missed.... priceless. The same principle applied to the wing tips. The end-tips are just enough length or nearly equal to the wing stance. If the wing tips where any longer it would “kill” the look of the entire wing.

So far Fie Ro's latest rendering is the only one I think looks remotely good. And thus far, I haven't seen any designs that will add anything performance-wise whatsoever. The diffuser is supposed to speed the movement of air underneath the car and therefore suck it down to the ground. The whole "cut up a rear fascia and throw it upside down" deal really is only going to impede the flow of air.

quote Originally posted by CTFieroGT87: And thus far, I haven't seen any designs that will add anything performance-wise whatsoever.

Not every mod has to add performance to the car. A chop top doesn't necessarily add performance, but it looks good. For that matter paint doesn't add performance either but I don't intend to drive around in primer forever.

quote Originally posted by jscott1:

OK, with using something that we've come up with so far, could it be made to be functional at all?

Here is a pic of a real diffuser off of a racecar:

With this added piece of plastic under the rear bumper, there is now a place to actually be able to mount something like this, where there wasn't room before.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Not every mod has to add performance to the car. A chop top doesn't necessarily add performance, but it looks good. For that matter paint doesn't add performance either but I don't intend to drive around in primer forever.

Heheheehe i have to echo that JScott ! Some guys just are stuck on the function kick. Not everybody is out trying to street race or
post times at the track. Just a fact,..some things are about style.

If every thing had to be functional, then ladies would never wear thongs or pumps !

Not functional, .......but darn do they look good !

I would like to see a Ford GT style one. One that actually is functional, and helps with highspeed stability.

quote Originally posted by helmet1978: I've been thinking of this for a few weeks too. Here's my photoshop effort for everyone to ponder.

that dosnt look that bad, actually.

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quote Originally posted by exoticse: If every thing had to be functional, then ladies would never wear thongs or pumps !

This quote made my day! hehe

I think we have all come to realize the thing that makes the diffuser look right are smoothing in the sides and opening up the center section, either with mesh or just plain open. After that you can improve it even more.

The vertical fins you see on the bottom of the race car are what I referred earlier as "vortilons" You see them on aircraft wings to get the flow underneath from swirling to increase the effectivness of the wing. Under the bottom of a car it would help the air exiting from the rear of the car to be less turbulent and therefore less drag. I was thinking that instead of the mesh that Helmet1978 has that I could smooth the surface and put vertical fins there?

quote Originally posted by rmphoto: those look like someone placed a mirror on the bottom of your car... you can tell what it is right away.

No offense, but I will call you Mr. obvious

Here's a shot in action...

I plan to trim out the middle section, so it won't be seen like this again.

first the whole thing has to be longer to work 3 to 5 ft
unfortuneatly the trunk and frame+ cradle are in the way
and a just under bumper one is way tooo short
most race units start in front of the wheels by 1/2 the total distance

secondly they only work on very low cars with an inch or so ground clearance

you would get better out flow just by triming off the lower bumper
to make more room then any add on widgit will give

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I plan to trim out the middle section, so it won't be seen like this again.

Come on...let's see it! Please post.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Not every mod has to add performance to the car. A chop top doesn't necessarily add performance, but it looks good. For that matter paint doesn't add performance either but I don't intend to drive around in primer forever.

After saying that, I hope you've never ever made a 'ricer' comment about someone else.

quote Originally posted by NotAFieroAnyLonger: sidenote... I have been doing alot of research on the air flow around cars in general... I have been convinced that the air flows alot, I mean alot better if it does'nt have any kind of defuser at all.... It will flow better if it is opened up... minus the rear defuser... JMO... Steve

Yeah... This is like I was talking about!!
Anyone have any thoughts now..??

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Choptop WideBody GT 1 of 1
4.9L-V8-Auto---almost finished

[This message has been edited by NotAFieroAnyLonger (edited 06-05-2005).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: After saying that, I hope you've never ever made a 'ricer' comment about someone else.

Touche'... but the whole concept of the rear spoiler is for looks. Maybe at Indianapolis the pace car needed it at 100+ mph but for the rest of Fieros the spoiler is just for looks. I raised mine, not for performance, but so I could see out the rear window. The effective height of a chop top rear window is about 4 inches, and I didn't want it to be reduced to 2 inches with a big spoiler blocking it.

My main purpose of the rear dffuser is to balance out that 5 inch raised spoiler. I was standing there looking at the car and felt it needed something there and the idea of using the upside down fascia ocurred to me. It's not perfect, but we have seen in this thread it can be made better and has a lot of potential. So improving airflow under the car, is not really my goal. If I can achieve that as well then it's just gravy.

Now having said all that, one of my pet peeves are non-functional scoops and vents. Won't ever see one on my car, (and yes my Integrated Rocker scoops are fucntional).

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-05-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: It could be made work well with the wing for an agressive look...but it really needs to get smoothed with the rearbumper to make it look like it belongs there... I like it smoothed even more

That rear treatment looks super. I can envison that rear with norms nose and that would be IMO some good looking Fiero. I don't believe that rear clip is available stateside.