quote Originally posted by Fformula88: I wonder how many of those DOHC fans (again, not directed at you) that trash GM's pushrods know that GM was selling cars equipped with DOHC engines when their favorite Japanese import brand was still simply dreaming of ever gaining market penetration into the US.

yeah - but the latest technology that takes advantage of multiple cams doesn't even require there to be a throttle body thanks to cam fully variable cam timing including variable overlap with propper tuning this allows the engine to be able to get maximum efficiency or maximum power at all rpms not just a specific range that a single cam engine has to be tuned for.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: how much power have people gotten out of the pushrod 3.4? 200hp heavily modified? funny the 3.4dohc makes 210hp stock

Just pointing out. The new pushrod 3.5L from GM is making 201hp stock.

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Christian Thomas
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd
301rwhp/345rwtq

Next Mod: 88 suspension

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: I don't recall GM offering a Fiero for the 1990 model year. Last I checked the 1988 was the last model year offered and they came with pushrod engines.

The point is that, had GM not killed the Fiero, it would have gotten the 3.4 DOHC engine. The 1990 Prototype has the prototype 3.2 DOHC engine. As such, the 3.4 DOHC carries weight as the right engine for the Fiero, as thats what it would have had if it had the chance. Further, prior to that time, GM didn't have many OHC engines to put in the Fiero. The 2.0 was a POS from the factory and more high performance than the Duke, while the Fiero was sold as a commuter to the GM bean counters. The 2.8 is more powerful than the 2.0, so there was no reason to go to it there. The Quad 4 was just going into common use in the late 80s when the Fiero was around, so it didn't get a chance. If anything, it probably would've replaced the Duke, but it probably would've been the SOHC low output version, since they had the 3.4 DOHC for the performance models.

This whole thread is obviously just a troll looking for an argument but here goes anyway;

The Fiero has very low gears and its a light 2 seat mid engine sportscar. A rev motor obviously works well in that kind of environment because all those factors compliment each other.
Is the TDC the fastest choice? No and i dont see even one TDC guy saying that here. All anyone is saying is that the Fiero and the TDC complimet each other and make a very natural and fun to drive match. That's not putting anyone s\elses choice down its just saying that, when you think about all those factors together, you can see how it isa good solid choice for this particular car.
The poster who brought up personality is also right on the nose. Sometimes its not about ultimate speed. Sometimes you actually sit back and consider the whole picture.
Ive driven several V8 Fieros and ive driven a TDC Fiero may times and i definitely want the TDC in my formula. Now does that mean its the right choice for everyone? No, but at least ive experienced them both. Id bet there are many, if not most, of the V8 pushrod guys in this thread that havent. The TDC in a fiero is nothing like it is in the Lumina, GP, or Monte either.
But I digress, the thing is, nobody is putting down anything when they say the TDC is such a good match for the fiero. All anybodies trying to say is that this engine is a revy sportscar engine (most sports cars have DOHC motors now) that works well with the fieros design and trans. That doesnt mean that choice is the right one for you though. A motor swap has a lot to do with someones vision and that varies from one person to another. Chose what suits you best and stop being so sensative about commets made by people trying to describe the joy they're having with the choice they made.

Dave's right.. to each his own. Still working on my new crate 3.4 dohc swap. Don't care if it can't keep up with more cubes but with a 5 speed I'll have really good performance with decent fuel economy as well. Just what I thought would be a nice balance. Maybe not what everyone else wants. Makes me happy. So weigh out the most important things you are looking for on a swap and make the right choice.

quote Originally posted by Dave Gunsul: This whole thread is obviously just a troll looking for an argument but here goes anyway...

Then there's guys like me who are really enjoying the expertise of others who are in the know. I'm really enjoying the banter back and forth about advantages of one engine type over another. So, ignore the guy who posted it and concentrate on owners like me who are getting something out of the thread. Thanks everybody!

This is a video of my dohc coming out of the hole not much traction spinning all the way with about 3/4 throttle
http://home.mchsi.com/~houseofsakowitz/My_88_DOHC_GT_spinning_out_of_the_hole.WMV

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: maybe it has to do with more valves per cylinder = more power potential -- technology doesn't advance for no reason

NONFORUM MEMBERS:
Al Rupertus: 10.99@133mph FB (355SBC w NOS, Olds Tornado Trans.)
Troy Ritchie: 11.52@121mph FB (383V8 w/NOS)
Ralph Degenhardt: 12.50@108mph NB (4.3 liter V6- cam, carb, Vortex heads, 4T40 auto)

FORUM MEMBERS:
10 SECOND CLUB
cardealer: 10.98@127mph FB (SBC/NOS- longitudinal auto tranny)

11 SECOND CLUB
FieroX: 11.547@124mph NB (turbo 3800II-4T60E auto)
Tina: 11.59@116mph NB (383 SBC V8- Isuzu 5 speed)
DonKraus: 11.628@114mph RB (SC3800II-4T65e, posi)
MNFiero3800: 11.92@114mph FB(SC3800II-Stage II intercooler,Stage I TB, cam, headers, DHP PCM, 2.8 pulley, 4T65E auto)

12 SECOND CLUB
John Lindsay: 12.00@120mph FB (3.8 liter V6 FWD block- built internals, Turbo, built T-125 auto trans)
LILDV1L: 12.000@114mph NB (SC3800II-2.75 pulley, XP HOT cam, DHP PCM, 4T65 auto, ZZP Intercooler)
3.8T: 12.20@120mphFB(3800I w/turbo and air-water intercooler,LS1 TB, chip, Lightweight flywheel, 5spd getrag manual)
Calikid: 12.20@118mph FB (L98 SBC-5speed)
LFiero67: 12.24@111mph FB (SC3800II-3.0 pulley, XP cam, port+polished, custom PCM, LS1 MAF,4T60E auto)
Her86GT: 12.27@112 mph FB (turbo 4.9 Caddy-4T60e)
FASTFIEROS: 12.28@111mph FB (SC3800II-intercooled,3.4 pulley,LSI TB, Stage 4 blower, DHP PCM, 85 mm MAF)
DarthFiero 12.38@110mph NB (3800IITurbo-intercooler, 87 GN turbo, ported L36 heads, custom chip, 4T60E auto)
Oreif: 12.38@109mph NB(ZZ4 350-4 speed manual)
SOULCRUSHER: 12.48@110mph FB (SC3800II-3.00 pulley, XPHOT cam, custom PCM(darth), 105lb valve springs, SS intercooler, 4T60E HD auto)
custom84cp: 12.80@104mph (SC3800II)
Will: 12.86@106mph (NorthStarV8)
BadgerBob: 12.89@99mph NB (SC3800II, 4T65E auto, Comp Roller Rockers, 3.4 pulley)
TimGully: 12.90@109mph (SC3800II-cam and pulley)
MattHawkins: 12.9@110mph (3.4DOHC turbo)
1FST2M6: 12.91@109mph FB(2.8/NOS-auto)
lowfierogt: 12.93@105mph FB(SC3800II- custom chip, 4T60E autpo, headers, 3.25 pulley)

WOW all that potential but the DOHC boys are at the bottom of the list ( list is our very own 1/4 mile list )
This thread did seem to turn into a pissing match. I'm out

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

I got a sound clip of my car, I had to use my phone so its not the greatest quality, and it got real noisy around 100, but its something
http://media.putfile.com/34DOHCsound
I wasnt hammering it the whole time, I tried to elongate some of the more harmonic RPMs

And, not to get into the fight, but I only see a couple of cars on there that aernt either forced induction or NOS'ed I to date only know of 3 turbo 3.4DOHC, and one of them is on there, the other one doesnt run yet, and I have no idea what happened to the west coast fiero's car. And no supercharged 3.4s are around that I know of.
honest question, Is anyone spraying thiers?
Lets just settle with, they're all fun, they all go fast, and the most important thing THEY'RE ALL FIEROS!!!

Edit to fix link

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 10-20-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Lets just settle with, they're all fun, they all go fast, and the most important thing THEY'RE ALL FIEROS!!!

I'll go with that ! FIERO'S ( weather pushrod or wimpy DOHC equipped ) RULE ! !

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: WOW all that potential but the DOHC boys are at the bottom of the list ( list is our very own 1/4 mile list ) This thread did seem to turn into a pissing match. I'm out

Funny you mention the 1/4 mile list. Will is the fastest STOCK engine car on that list with his N*. He was also hampered by a 275hp chip on his 300hp engine. Lets see what a stock sbc runs, because the ones on that list are highly modified.

Ok crazy one substitute in a fuelie 327 from a late 60's vette. Stock it has more hp than a N* . Or how about a stock LS 1 . Take your pick.

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

No no. It was OFFERED. The prototype obviously exists and has been to a few shows, and has a DOHC in it. It just didn't make it to market, since it would have had people buying the "cheaper corvette".

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: Keyword in your post PROTOTYPE. Keyword in my post OFFERED. In other words GM never offered a DOHC in a Fiero for sale to the general public.

it's almost funny. replace tdc with 4.9 (or maybe even 3800 on a hot day) and it's the same arguement that's been going on for ages. i also see where the 1/4 list got drug out again like it's the be all and end all of reasoning. some people just won't be happy unless you choose what they want you to choose, for the reasons they think should be important.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Ok crazy one substitute in a fuelie 327 from a late 60's vette. Stock it has more hp than a N* . Or how about a stock LS 1 . Take your pick.

But they are not on the list. I could say an LT5 would kill an LS1 or a fuelie in the 1/4, but there isn't one on the list.

1/4 mile times arent the only judgement of performance. What about handling? The power curve and torque curve plays a big role in handling. I would like to see a simmilarly equipted DOHC Fiero against a pushrod Fiero of the same HP. I bet the DOHC woudl edge it out because of the power higher up and with higher redline, it can keep in a gear longer. Also most DOHC engines are aliminum or have aluminum on them, where most pushrod engines in Fiero's are cast iron. I know my Quad 4 keeps pulling harder from 3500RPM all the way to 7000RPM, where the 2.8L Fiero's, pull harder off the line, but you can feel them loose out on power quite early, and every other pushrod vehicle we have is the same way.

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: I don't recall GM offering a Fiero for the 1990 model year. Last I checked the 1988 was the last model year offered and they came with pushrod engines.

quote Originally posted by Mulholland_GT_Racer: SEE: PROTOTYPE MODEL.

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: Keyword in your post PROTOTYPE. Keyword in my post OFFERED. In other words GM never offered a DOHC in a Fiero for sale to the general public.

quote Originally posted by F-I-E-R-O: Hey, the guy was just trying to be helpful. Don't be such a jerk.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: You are trolling. You asked a question when you posted this topic and you keep trying to shoot down people that disagree with you. WTF, over?

quote Originally posted by Dave Gunsul: This whole thread is obviously just a troll looking for an argument but here goes anyway

So I'm a jerk and a troll for posing a legitimate question. Then clarifying and pointing out that GM nevr offered a DOHC in any of the Fieros sold to John Q. Public?

quote Originally posted by befarrer: 1/4 mile times arent the only judgement of performance. What about handling? The power curve and torque curve plays a big role in handling. I would like to see a simmilarly equipted DOHC Fiero against a pushrod Fiero of the same HP. I bet the DOHC woudl edge it out because of the power higher up and with higher redline, it can keep in a gear longer. Also most DOHC engines are aliminum or have aluminum on them, where most pushrod engines in Fiero's are cast iron. I know my Quad 4 keeps pulling harder from 3500RPM all the way to 7000RPM, where the 2.8L Fiero's, pull harder off the line, but you can feel them loose out on power quite early, and every other pushrod vehicle we have is the same way.

Any DOHC racing in autocross? If so how are they doing?

[This message has been edited by Unrivaled (edited 10-20-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: Any DOHC racing in autocross? If so how are they doing?

Later fiero racecars had a DOHC superduty 4. These are superior to the pushrod SD4.

Everyone here knows fieros wern't offered with a dohc motor, thanks for pointing that out a bunch of times.

Ah, the 1/4 mile list. This thread is growing at the speed of light. The 1/4 mile list is full of thouroughly built motors, and blown or turbo motors, most of wich are bigger displacement. Not a good argument logically. Compare motors of the same displacement. A 3.8 without a SC would not come close to this 3.4. Is the only way to get repect to go SC or turbo?
If this motor was a more common engine in the GM line up and used in a billion different cars, it would be on that 1/4 mile list.

You cannot argue that more valves are a bad thing. You also cannot argue that this motor will beat a LS-? without some $$$

But the fact is my 3.4 DOHC against your Pushrod 3.4 stock would eat eat yours for lunch and pick it's teeth with your pushrods.

See how I am now, thats not really a fair comparison, I have more valves.

In my experiance, (I participate in alot of profesional racing), I have come across alot of "SBC" guy's and I accept that they are die hard belivers and dont want to know how a 4 cam motor works. Most are just "old school" and are set in their ways.
These same people will always bag on anything they dont understand, and always feel superior if they have more liters or pistons. Example They will say things like , " you wont beat me, got me a V8 under the hood. lol and everyone has heard this: " why would you do that to a Fiero!"
Come on you know you all have heard it.

Not pointing fingers at anyone so lets keep it clean.
Ding ,Ding.

Travis

quote Originally posted by crzyone: But they are not on the list. I could say an LT5 would kill an LS1 or a fuelie in the 1/4, but there isn't one on the list.

Yeah but has an LT 5 ever made it into the back of a fiero?

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: yeah and it took them how many liters to get that? a northstar with cams can make 400hp from 4.6L not 7L - and a ferrari makes almost 500hp from a 4.3L pushrods still get the job done.. but don't deny that its past it prime

The 7L LS7 is 505 HP, not 400. The 443 HP figure was at the rear wheels.

Pushrods are older technology, but just becasue something is new doesn't automatically mean it's better.
The Gen III is a great testament to how well a pushrod engine can compete against modern DOHC engines. Even last years LS6 pushrod 5.7L put out as much or more HP than the DOHC 5.7 LT5.

DOHC's primary advantage is more freedom to design the head and combustion chamber - with more freedom to place the valves in better locations. They CAN be better, but they are also more complicated, more expensive, and tend to have lower torque than a comparable pushrod engine. For a high revving sports car, that may be more desirable, but only if the rest of the engine is as well designed.

Look at the 3.4 DOHC - 210 HP stock
The new 3.9 pushrod engine is 240 HP, the same as the supercharged 3800.

I think pushrod engines will be around for a long time in applications where small engine package is important, as well as economical assembly and a lower torque band. DOHC will become the preferred choice for high rpm engines where there is room to fit the engine in the engine bay. (compare the physical size of a 3.4 pushrod to a 3.4 DOHC)

Cylinder pressure = torque not displacement. Torque is made throughout the RPM band. If the engine sustains it's cylindrical pressure at the upper area of it's Revolution band it will continue on reving and making power as long as the valvetrain and lower end will support it. If it is a low end power mill, i.e. the LT1 or L98 which was designed for lower RPM power than it does not want to stay in the upper area of the band and needs to stay in it's powerband by gearing. whether or not you pass it racing depends on how much power your making in your powerband as long as the weight and environment is the same.

The new LS7 revs and makes power to 7000 RPM. It has a lower number of maximum torque than horsepower suggesting that it makes it's torque higher in the rev range. It sustains it's flat torque curve throughout making it an excellent all around engine.

The 2006 Z06 is the second fastest production car on the Nurburgring in Germany. It has only been surpassed by the Porsche supercar which has 150 BHP on it and 600,000.00 dollars on it's production price. It also has better gas mileage and driveability than it's competitors. The best part is that there is no guzzler tax on it and gets better mileage than the Honda 2.0 S2000 engine and makes more than twice it's power. So where is the downfall of the pushrod engine?

Ironic the DOHC is an all high end, no low end torque motor when compared to the 3.4 OHV, the DOHC makes more horsepower AND torque at ANY rpm.

Good job comparing it to a 3800 SC. Not only do they have a half liter on us, but they also have 8+ pounds of boost. Impressive that we're only a turn of the cam gear behind.

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"all pushrod motor are better than the dohc because it has less rotational mass"
-rick17, MyMonte member, owner of a 3100 Monte Carlo LS

Very well said Formula88, Pushrods will definately be around alongtime still, american as apple pie.

"Look at the 3.4 DOHC - 210 HP stock
The new 3.9 pushrod engine is 240 HP, the same as the supercharged 3800."

A good example of technological advancement. As the years go by manufacturers make more advanced products.

But (there always is one right, lol) - 12 years later with more displacement and variable valve technology the 3.9 still only makes alittle more HP than the old smaller displacement 3.4 DOHC. 3.4 DOHC cam timing retard, will make up the diference. Note "cam timing" if the 3.9 had DOHC heads and the variable valve technology, it would put out so much more! or vis versa.

Didn't OHC engines techinically come out before pushrod engines?

this is a stupid argument

DOHC and OHV doesn't matter.

It all boils down to your rod lenght:stroke ratio and how much air you can flow

so lets compare 2 motors of the same displacement, same bore, same stroke, same rod length:

3.4 pushrod vs 3.4 DOHC

160 gross hp stock vs. 215 gross hp stock - why?
answer: AIRFLOW

that being said...it's been proven that if you increase airflow in a pushrod motor to the same levels of a dohc motor you can acheive the same amount of power.

Let's look at Oreif's 2 motors (1 wasn't his but he helped build it)...
Each takes heads that don't flow well and ports them. Each removes the restrictions in the exhaust manifolds AND crossover pipe, each increase the ability for the motor to suck in air and each made ~200 hp at the rear wheels or ~236 gross hp and spin happily to 7000rpm.

with a couple of tweaks, the DOHC 3.4 can make another 20 gross hp without affecting drivability. I say that because I know the DOHC people will claim with mods you can make 285 gross HP and go to 8000rpm....
...but piss fuel out for 1000-3000 rpms with lousy drivablility....yadda yadda yadda, GM made 275 hp with a 2.8 - who cares you don't want either motor on the street.

you mod either motor more than that (~240hp) and drivability will START to be affected (assuming normal aspiration)

moral of the story is that it doesn't matter. It's just what you start with because it's what you want or can afford or whatever other reason. Be happy with what you got, who cares what the next guy has.

Variable valve timing exists on pushrom motors - for whomever said it didn't. All it is is having curved or slanted lobes and pushing a cam in or out more to change the pattern a bit.

Roller cam technology has escentially negated the airflow problems in pushrod motors because you can open valves faster and sustain max lift longer with them.

Either way, if someone offered me motor XYZ at a good deal and it so happened to be better than what I had, I wouldn't pass on it. Get what you can get and be happy.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 10-20-2005).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: this is a and how much air you can flow

That is what it all comes down to. The DOHC just allows us to flow A LOT more air, that is all.

We also need to take into account flow characteristics though, not just the CFM, but HOW the air flows, especially once its mixed with fuel, and negotiationt he valve(s).

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The 7L LS7 is 505 HP, not 400. The 443 HP figure was at the rear wheels. Pushrods are older technology, but just becasue something is new doesn't automatically mean it's better. The Gen III is a great testament to how well a pushrod engine can compete against modern DOHC engines. Even last years LS6 pushrod 5.7L put out as much or more HP than the DOHC 5.7 LT5.

The LT5 was used in the 90-95 corvette. Compared to other similar displacement motors of the time, it had over 100hp more. A stock LT1 had 300hp, the LT5 had 405.

If the LT5 was made today it would probibly rival the LS7 and still keep its 5.7L displacement. Or if they put LT5 heads on an LSx engine, it would dominate pretty much everything out there.

Heck, if they put dohc heads on a 500ci viper engine it would probibly make 800hp vs the 500 it makes now.

CFM=power, simple. A DOHC engine flows more air which makes more power.

Another thing to remember, comparing stock engines is not a good comparison. A mildly tuned 3.4dohc is not going to be a good comparison to a fairly hot 3.9 pushrod. Sure, the 3.9 makes more power, but ultimatly the 3.4dohc has more hp potential from a modified point of view.

Here is a slightly modified NA LT5, fully streetable.
http://zfdoc.com/images/philsrun3.wmv

No. You're a jerk and a troll because you keep saying the 100% correct and total answer to your question is somehow invalid simply because the car was canceled and the DOHC version never made it to the end consumer market. The car exists. It's in a movie. I think that's enough reason to say that the Fiero, had it not been cancelled, would have a DOHC in it. While mine won't be getting the 3.4 DOHC, it will be getting a DOHC. The N* has just the right amount of cylinders, and the right amount of stock HP, to make it the perfect engine to go in a Fiero. Then again, there is nothing stopping me from just straight out buying a Fiero with a DOHC already in it. I'm sure I could find one for sale somewhere. Guess John Q. Public is able to buy one after all.

Please stop refuting the valid technical answers because you refuse to accept them. They are in fact the answer. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.

Maybe this is the answer you're looking for then:

It's the question that drives us.

quote Originally posted by Unrivaled: So I'm a jerk and a troll for posing a legitimate question. Then clarifying and pointing out that GM nevr offered a DOHC in any of the Fieros sold to John Q. Public?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: WOW all that potential but the DOHC boys are at the bottom of the list ( list is our very own 1/4 mile list ) This thread did seem to turn into a pissing match. I'm out

funny how that proves nothing since there is only one person with a modified 3.4 on that list and all the others are much larger displacement including a 4.9 turbo that only ran half a second faster.. hmm makes ya think

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-21-2005).]

I doubt that's a DOHC. It sounds like a roller cam pushrod motor with a 750 dominator. I suppose it is a '90 ZR-1 body car though, but in no way streetable.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: This dohc obviously doesn't have any torque. http://www.wpccc.net/vids/zr-1%20race.avi

you want a streetable stock dohc engine?
The M3 is equipped with a 333 horsepower engine making 262 ft/lbs or torque. This powerhouse will rocket you to 60mph in only 4.8 seconds from a 3.2L dohc I6

thats right 3.2L making more STREETABLE power than an 5.7L z28 camaro

on topic of the original question.. mid engine car = designed for handling not drag racing.. large v8's with low end grunt are great for 1/4 mile and stoplight to stoplight.. but a smoothe dohc engine that just sings along really fits the persona of a sportscar (not a muscle car)

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: funny how that proves nothing since there is only one person with a modified 3.4 on that list

Thats because I stopped cutting and pasting at the fastest DOHC 3.4 There are more on the list but they are slower.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: yes with double the displacement - funny do you see any ls1's on the 1/4 mile list?

Well it is funny that all these high displacement engines are whipping the lower displascement engines a$$ with the exception of a select few. Funny how the modded pushrod motors are stomping the modded DOHC motors. When PBJ get his turbo N* done I'm sure he will post the times from his run. Wonder if it'll be in the 10 second catagory? Whos takeing bets. Don't get me wrong the N* is a cool motor and a cool swap into a fiero ..... but I prefer SBC muscle if i'm gonna make a POWERFULL motor. You DOHC boys need to step up to the plate and de-throne the SBC .

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

yeah they were slower because they were STOCK - compared to highly modified 3.8's with forced induction.. yeah very valid comparison - you still trying to say that pushrod technology is better than DOHC? because that argument was lost before you started. all it shows is that more people have taken the 3800sc and modified it - well no **** its a more common engine and more popular because it comes with a SC alreayd on it to make mods cheap and easy -- we all know the 3800sc is the best bang for the buck - I knew that when i chose my 3.4dohc

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Well it is funny that all these high displacement engines are whipping the lower displascement engines a$$ with the exception of a select few. Funny how the modded pushrod motors are stomping the modded DOHC motors. When PBJ get his turbo N* done I'm sure he will post the times from his run. Wonder if it'll be in the 10 second catagory? Whos takeing bets. Don't get me wrong the N* is a cool motor and a cool swap into a fiero ..... but I prefer SBC muscle if i'm gonna make a POWERFULL motor. You DOHC boys need to step up to the plate and de-throne the SBC .

just because it hasn't been done in a fiero doesn't mean it hasn't been done - pushrods have been dethroned by DOHC cars with less than half the displacement - look at a 9 second eclipse or an 8 second supra..

you can always ADD displacement to a DOHC motor - or ADD dohcs to some larger motors - for the same displacement DOHCs WILL ALWAYS be able to breath better and thus make more power..

you want to drive something with more displacement then go ahead -
I wouldn't give a flying **** at a rolling donut

but stop trying to "prove" that 2valves per cyl is better than 4 valves per cyl

edit to add: people have been TRYING to point out to you that its not all about 1/4 mile - most the people with DOHC's are more into autocrossing and road racing than drag racing

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Well it is funny that all these high displacement engines are whipping the lower displascement engines a$$ with the exception of a select few. Funny how the modded pushrod motors are stomping the modded DOHC motors. . but I prefer SBC muscle if i'm gonna make a POWERFULL motor. You DOHC boys need to step up to the plate and de-throne the SBC .

The thing is, we dont need to prove anything. You need to grow up and remember that it's a free world here and people can like different things than you do. Also, anyone who knows anything about engines knows that more airflow means more power so more valves is obviouslya good thing. DOHC motors are more efficent and that's a fact but it certainly doesnt mean pushrod motors are bad. Nobody said that, in fact, you pushrod guys are the only ones who are truely putting anyones choice of motor down here.
As for the 1/4 mile proof Wills car speaks volumes since it's a stock high mileage motor with the wrong chip. However, that's still not the end all be all of reasons for everyone on swaps. There's always someone faster than you so,once you learn that, you tend to base you decisions/choices on many things rather than just all out 1/4 performance however, even if you were only interested in drag racing, a DOHC motor can still deliver excellent performance if you mod it just like the SBC.

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