quote Originally posted by crzyone: My N* fits the fiero engine bay like it was made for it.

....looks a little tight, and if it was made for it - why did you have to lose the trunk??

Anyways, how's it coming?

You guys win. DOHC is the almighty ! See ya on the streets

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: You guys win. DOHC is the almighty ! See ya on the streets

way to be a man and admit you were wrong by avoiding it and making a petty "threat" that has nothing to do with the technology being better when it comes down to one engine vs another

lamer

I just look at them all as motors. DOHC's come with added costs. I look at my wallet. If I can only afford a pushrod, that's what I buy and know that I can increase the airflow in the future.

Not all DOHC motors are made to rev high. If that was the case turbo-DOHC-diesel motors would be making crazy HP.
There are 4 valve/cylinder motors that have really small valves and make good bottom end power and don't rev to the moon and are good on gas. It all comes down to the individual design.

One is not better than the other.

Chevy 350's have been revving to 10k rpm for years and years in racing circuits, it's all on how you build up the motor.

You can talk about variable timing but it doesn't exist on those 3.4 DOHC's so there is no point in talking about impossible potential.
Cam phasing will affect driveablility. The 3.4 DOHC is also a higher compression motor. You can increase the pushrod's compression too.

In the end if you match displcaement and airflow of 2 motor, the power will be equal. Stop arguing.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 10-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: way to be a man and admit you were wrong by avoiding it and making a petty "threat" that has nothing to do with the technology being better when it comes down to one engine vs another lamer

I agree.

FIEROPHREK the next thing youre probably going to do is go out and get a LS1 Trans Am instead of a scoob or skittle.

Thats not very manly at all.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: I just look at them all as motors. DOHC's come with added costs. I look at my wallet. If I can only afford a pushrod, that's what I buy and know that I can increase the airflow in the future. Not all DOHC motors are made to rev high. If that was the case turbo-DOHC-diesel motors would be making crazy HP. There are 4 valve/cylinder motors that have really small valves and make good bottom end power and don't rev to the moon and are good on gas. It all comes down to the individual design. One is not better than the other. Chevy 350's have been revving to 10k rpm for years and years in racing circuits, it's all on how you build up the motor. You can talk about variable timing but it doesn't exist on those 3.4 DOHC's so there is no point in talking about impossible potential. Cam phasing will affect driveablility. The 3.4 DOHC is also a higher compression motor. You can increase the pushrod's compression too. In the end if you match displcaement and airflow of 2 motor, the power will be equal. Stop arguing.

3.4 pushrod is 9.5:1 - 3.4 dohc is 9.3:1,9.5:1,9.7:1 depending on year and model

yes not all dohc's are designed ot rev high - but they are all designed to breath (another reason for ohc engines is for inline non V engines - its more cost effective on them)

yes you can build just about anything to widthstand high rpm - but the ability to make power up top requires the ability to breath - and in that case more valves allows more airflow.

with equal displacement and both engines being built up - a 2valve engine will never be able to breath/flow as much as a 4valve when both are being built to flow.. its physicly impossible - do the math

the variable cam timing was in refference to technological advancements - this was never supposed to be some petty engine vs engine debate.. people drive what they want to drive - and if you have a problem with what someone else drives then you are just going to have to deal with it. I respect all engines that are put together and designed well - I also don't have a problem recognizing forward steps in technology even when they get pushed aside by the bean counters.

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-21-2005).]

Hey koburn and crzyone (i pointed you out because you jumped on the bash ship REAL quick) ,go back to the begining of the thread and point out to me where i said that a pushrod engine can out flow a DOHC engine . You will see that i never said that. You guys like to put words in peoples mouths. I mearly stated my "OPINION" and get slammed by the DOHC fans. I did point out that the older technology engine are whipping the newer technolgy engines a$$. Why? Because they are ! As for modded and un modded , this point is null and void since we are talking about modding as soon a different motor is placed in a fiero. If it's not a 2.5 or a 2.8 then its moddded. So your argument over modded and non modded engines is not valid in the whole point of this thread. Dohc engines have great flow numbers there is no doubting that , only a fool would try to doubt this. But just because an engine has great flowing cylinder head doesn't mean it has the all the other components to make a sh*tload of power. Like I said you DOHC guys need to cowboy the f*uck up and show everyone that you are a force to be reconed with ...If not sit down shut up and enjoy the view.

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Hey koburn and crzyone (i pointed you out because you jumped on the bash ship REAL quick) ,go back to the begining of the thread and point out to me where i said that a pushrod engine can out flow a DOHC engine . You will see that i never said that. You guys like to put words in peoples mouths. I mearly stated my "OPINION" and get slammed by the DOHC fans. I did point out that the older technology engine are whipping the newer technolgy engines a$$. Why? Because they are ! As for modded and un modded , this point is null and void since we are talking about modding as soon a different motor is placed in a fiero. If it's not a 2.5 or a 2.8 then its moddded. So your argument over modded and non modded engines is not valid in the whole point of this thread. Dohc engines have great flow numbers there is no doubting that , only a fool would try to doubt this. But just because an engine has great flowing cylinder head doesn't mean it has the all the other components to make a sh*tload of power. Like I said you DOHC guys need to cowboy the f*uck up and show everyone that you are a force to be reconed with ...If not sit down shut up and enjoy the view.

actually you jumped on the "its not better technology because an engine with twice the displacement makes more power" idiotic rant, nobody here bashed pushrods. OHC technology is more advanced end of discussion.
its a good thing you aren't incharge of a drag strip because its obvious you'd put the guys with a quad 4 swap in the same class as a 383 stroker with nitrous.. its a non comparison
cowboy up? who the **** do you think you are? I don't see your name up ont he 1/4 mile list and YOU are the one that brough up 1/4 mile as if it was anything of consequence.. I don't feel like counting how many times we've pointed out to you that the 3.4dohc swap fits the fiero because they are not designed for the 1/4 mile life - they are more sporty - more inclined for pulling through the turns and driving daily.. how many SBC's on your prescious 1/4 mile list are daily drivers? eh?

we don't CARE if you don't like the 3.4 - grow up

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-21-2005).]

Maybe the original post here should have been: "How does your personality fit YOUR Fiero?"

Seems like everyone has their own thoughts on the subject.

I have not seen one post here that really answers the question at hand but then again everyone seems to have a different idea on what the Fiero's personality is.

The original car fit within Pontiac's mission statement of the 80's "Pontiac is a car company known for innovative styling and engineering that results in products with outstanding performance and roadability" Still have the lucite paper weight on my desk at the office left over from my days at PMD.

Pontiac gave us a car, at least by 1988, with great handling and decent performance for the time in a car that performed well by the standards of the day. It had decent fuel economy with the 4 and pretty good with the V6 5 speed.

They played around with different things on the car from aluminum space frames with substantial weight reductions to aluminum block twin turbo V6 2.9 liter engines and the 3.2 DOHC motor but the truth is they never did get all of this stuff out in the public's hands before the lights went out.

So if you want to stick with the car's true personality even the 3.4 DOHC is off track.. What you want the car's personality is totally up to the individual. Instead of making this a debate thread why don't you start listing the different swaps people have done and the pro and con of each. That way many could benefit from this thread and take from it what is important to them and their individual course of direction.

For example which engine transmission combination is best for straight line acceleration?

Which one is best for overall performance without sacrificing fuel economy?

And back up your statements.

Bantering back and forth is getting tiresome for all of us to read and is not really benefitting anyone. Several here have done some fantastic swaps and mods. What did you like about your swap? What didn't you like? Would you do it again? What would you do differently?

I've already done a 3.1 modified stroker in my 87 GT. Currently doing a 3.4 DOHC swap into a Getrag combo with 88 coupe but does not mean this will be my last swap. I might do a V8 for good measure who knows? That's what I realy like about the car is that they are plentiful, cheap and easy to mod if you've got a bit of cash outlay or time and wrenches to turn. Why have just one? I'm back up to 7.

Let's hear it!

quote Originally posted by UDLOSE: I agree. FIEROPHREK the next thing youre probably going to do is go out and get a LS1 Trans Am instead of a scoob or skittle. Thats not very manly at all.

You better have dinner ready when i get there beyatch !

And koburn It seems that we both need to grow up a little . But i don't really feel like it so you have to live with an idiot like me poisoning "your" forum. I'm hard headed and stuborn and so I will not take back what i have said so you can keep being a blowhard until your blue in the face . My small block build is progressing well it should be completed at the end of this winter. Where is your name on the list again?

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 10-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: And koburn It seems that we both need to grow up a little . But i don't really feel like it so well you have to live with an idiot like me poisoning "your" forum. I'm hard headed and stuborn and o would take back what i have said so you can keep being a blowhard until your blue in the face .

funny - I am grown up, I've stated facts about technology and engine design - you've made a lot of conjecture and fondationless statements - people like you just erk me. not sure what this "your" forum business is since I never made any statement like that - however you are trolling this thread and your sig makes it obvious why. read the thread again and see who got

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:My small block build is progreesing well it should be completed at the end of this winter. Where is your name on the list again?

doesn't matter since i didn't bring it up as a poor attempt to back up my argument.. you are just trolling in here because you are another "sbc's are the be all end all of engines"
where I should be once I finish tuning my ecm is at a 12.0 - and thats on a stock engine just adding boost, but I don't claim any speed untill I can prove it because I'm not a bench racer.

you are right about one thing though - and that is that you are "always right" and nothing anybody says will ever convince you otherwise so we may all just as well bow down

I don't think I've seen someone proclaim to be "grown up" in the same post they use "PWNED" and "1337" pics as proof.

That's almost as good as proclaiming, "I'm a sophisticated, educated adult, you doodie-head!" Almost, but not quite.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I don't think I've seen someone proclaim to be "grown up" in the same post they use "PWNED" and "1337" pics as proof. That's almost as good as proclaiming, "I'm a sophisticated, educated adult, you doodie-head!" Almost, but not quite.

what?? growing up doesn't mean your soul has to die - :P gotta have a little fun now an then

I was contemplating using this one too

Hmm.... this turned into flames real quick. kinda makes sense though seeing as how this is a FIERO forum. lol Dang everybody i sooo uptight about everything. Shoot i have the stock 2.8, i only wish i had a 3.4 DOHC, SC3800, Northstar, or SBC. Is it really worth trying to convice somone else to agree with your opinion? Have a nice day and remember......We all drive Fieros and thats why we're here.

FIEROPHREK, still no comment on the LT5? 405hp back in the mid 90s when there was no HP war going on? 100 more hp than a hot corvette LT1. Thats all on a mild tune, as shown by the warmed over corvettes I posted.

Archie has an LT5, not sure if he ever plans on installing it. If he does I would expect it to be in the 11s bone stock with a proper tune.

Tim, completely removing the trunk out of choice, going to remove that stock crossbar and weld in something stronger and lighter as well. I plan on installing a GT42 and a PWR barrel intercooler sometime, I would definitly need to get rid of the trunk then. No trunk makes for unlimited exhaust choice. Took out the spare and moved the battery to under the passenger headlight so I can still pack bags up front.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 10-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: You can talk about variable timing but it doesn't exist on those 3.4 DOHC's so there is no point in talking about impossible potential. Cam phasing will affect driveablility. The 3.4 DOHC is also a higher compression motor. You can increase the pushrod's compression too. In the end if you match displcaement and airflow of 2 motor, the power will be equal. Stop arguing.

Both of these statements are wrong. Cam timing does not affect drivability whatsoever. You will need to set your idle about 100rpm higher, but if you can notice 100rpm difference on the facotry tach, you don't have a factory tach.

That is wrong. With the same airflow, essentially the same dynamic compression, the DOHC will still make more power. With a centrally located plug we not only get an EXCELLENT squish design, we also get much more efficient combustion. Thus we can run more boost, or more compression, or more spark advance than the pushrod motor, even if its an all mighty Hemi...yah...Hemi that b!tch.

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"all pushrod motor are better than the dohc because it has less rotational mass"
-rick17, MyMonte member, owner of a 3100 Monte Carlo LS

[This message has been edited by AaronZ34 (edited 10-21-2005).]

maybe you guys should start a real comparison with a grading scale that includes things like fuel economy, weight, speed, expense of swap vs HP and whatever else you can think of. then nominate someone with no preference either way to moderate it.

There seems to be a lot of controversy between camps here and I'd like to point out that everyones comparing two different breeds of powerplants. It's not like apples to oranges... more like which apple makes a better pie vs which is the better one to pick and eat. When the 1/4 mile list popped up, I knew the thread was in trouble. However, I think people defend the pushrod engines because of how others are saying its pretty much 'old school' and 'past its prime'. DOHC is looked upon as new and 'superior' technology, however the truth of the matter is it's not. Someone posted something about 'if pushrod engines could somehow work with 4-valve heads'... thats already happened and you can own a set for a price.

It's a fact that if you can flow more air, you make more power. The engine really doesnt care how it gets that extra air, just so long as its there, it can use it. Of course, if getting that extra air doesnt come with a 'price', ie - taxing the available hp to spin a mechanical device, all the better.

With that said, I'd like to propose a bit of a contest. I have a soundclip of a particular engine. This clip has been commercially available, albeit limited. For those that have it, and therefore knowing what it is, I ask that you dont post, revealing what it is. As a matter of fact, let's make this PMs only and I'll post the ones that are the closest to correct. We have heard several examples of engines just in this thread alone. Take a listen and tell me, again in PMs only, the number of cylinders, type of induction and type of valvetrain. Extra credit goes to engine displacement and year of manufacture. Enjoy, and hopefully this will be educational as well.

SoundBite

[edit] There were no winners though there were some close guesses. Its a V16 2-valve DOHC running a centrifical supercharger at 4x engine speed. It's all of 1.5l and making around 450hp at 11,000 rpm. It was first conceived in 1946 and the project was completed in 1949. The car was the BRM Type 15 and suffered numerous failures as well as several wins, once they got it sorted out.

I come from the POV that each engine has a personality and somewhere there is an application for that particular engine. Someone mentioned that these cars arent well suited for the 'muscle-car' genre. Once Carrol Shelby got his hands on the AC Ace, the writing was on the wall. Not only did it dominate at the track, it pulled better numbers all the way around, trashing the Corvette in it's wake. It had better 0 to 100 to 0 numbers than most cars had from 0 to 60. To meet legal requirements for racing, it had to become a production car so I feel that comparison is on-topic, if barely so. Someone (Shelby?) tossed a smallblock Ford in a Sunbeam and called it Tiger back in the 60s and that was also sold to the public. So maybe a V8 isnt so 'out of place' in the Fiero... simply following the footsteps of other vehicles of a similar size loaded with low-reving torquers. It just depends on what you want from your own car. Neither type of engine is superior in a direct comparison. Only within specific applications will each one's strengths dominate over the other.

[This message has been edited by FieroMojo (edited 10-22-2005).]

well hell guys, if you really want to get into a battle about why the 3.4DOHC is better fit because of the handling, and SBC is more about the strip, STOP. we all know that, but what the big question is whats your personal tast? for me its both, lol.... i have a 3.4DOHC that i am totally modifying the suspension to do hopefully 1g skidpad when i am done (and still have a nice 13.9-13.5 sec car when i am done), AND i am also doing a SBC that i will have no intension, or reason to take a 45 MPH corner at any more than 45, lol, that engine and car will be for straight away use only. i will have the 2 extremes, and i will not try and mix the 2 in any way because they are what they are, and no more (even though people have mixed the 2 and mad unbelievable street cars, lol... Cali Kid)

anyway, just my 2 cents in this already monsterous post, lol.

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1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero
3.4 DOHC, bored .30
Fully balanced and blueprinted

355/380hp sbc, 4 bolt main
spec stage 3, and many other extras, lol.
still need to find the right fiero for this engine.

Hey koburn did you go back to the first page and actually read it? Honestly did you? Did i attack the dohc in anyway?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I think its because the cars that alot of the younger genaration have grow up with are all of the OHC type. Pushrods are a scary dinosour to them. For some reason they think that a pushrod motor has gone the way of the Dodo. You know " old tech "..."old millenium" . Personally I prefer pushrod motors.

A very civil expression of my opinion (you know its like an a$$hole everybody has one)

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: and how much does that vette motor cost compared to a N* whats this? your only argument is difficulty of rebuild and that its the engine technology the high dollar supercars use?

Who brought up an argument? YOU did . Right here is where you turned this thread into a pissing match good job I'm the troll but you post after me and not even with your own opinion , but with a quote from me.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: actually you jumped on the "its not better technology because an engine with twice the displacement makes more power" idiotic rant, nobody here bashed pushrods. OHC technology is more advanced end of discussion.

Show me where I said this in this thread. OH wait you can't because i didn't. You should stop trolling this forum and go back to your " real fiero tech" circle jerk. Crazyone An LT 5 hasn't made it into the back of a fiero so you can stop beating that drum jeez. Ok so what am i supposed to explain again, why a pushrod motor is better for a fiero? first off the majority of fiero owners are cheap ( me included) . Bang for the buck is the key for my cheap a$$. I can build a powerfull SBC for around 3K. The SBC's aftermarket blows away the N*'s , LT 5's,and 3.4 DOHC's hands down. So if i feel like going from an iron SBC to aluminum i can. So now i have a very powerfull SBC that isn't a boat anchor. The aftermarket and ability to make power is why i feel the SBC is far superior to the three engine i have listed. Eventually the SBC will be phased out there is no way around that, but until then it is still a very potent engine with tons of available high performance parts. Ok Koburn its your turn why is the 3.4 DOHC better for a fiero? Please keep it civil because your a big boy now.

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HARDCORE SBC FAN AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: what?? growing up doesn't mean your soul has to die - :P gotta have a little fun now an then I was contemplating using this one too

Damn, dude. Your soul hasn't hit puberty yet.

Well I dont think that anyone has said this in this thread yet.... but here it goes...

DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS!!!

DOHC offers its advantages as does the pushrod. DOHC engines are generally regaurded as more efficient. Pushrods are generally more of torque motors and are more compact.

Choose what suits you, thats what I did, and dont regret it in any way. The only thing that I wish for is a better aftermarket for the 3.4 DOHC. Maybe if we had one we'd see some more of the DOHC's potential. Pushrods have a huge aftermarket, where as U.S. made DOHC's generally dont (ford mustang aside I suppose).

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--180* t-stat, 1.5 degree intake cam advance and 5 degree exhaust cam retard, ported lower intake, FFP pulley, A/C Idler, complete custom flowmaster exhaust, EGR delete, K&N filter, custom chip--

I "Love" my car's personality !!!

Would I do it the same way again ??? You betcha, no doubt about it !!!

If I wanted a high reving bearing eater, I could easily swap out the cam, change intake, and re-program the EMC. As said above, the SBC can be easily built to pull 10 grand. Fact is, I can't think of a good reason to do it.

Mighty Mouse Lives !

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Car History: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

oh yes an sbc's superior aftermarket following makes its technology more advanced than OHC ? or makes it fit the fieros personality better?

yup thats what I thought another irrelivant argument meant to do nothing but make you feel better about your beloved SBC (which I personally have no problem with people swapping - they are still a fun engine, just not my prefferance)

no you didn't say those exact words - I was paraphrasing everything you've said into a single sentance - since all your arguments involved engines that required much larger displacement to make more power

for the other guy mentioning handling - handling itself was never compared - only the application of power in turns vs straight lines- for the vavles - yes I know - thats why I said it - and it goes back to my original statement that didn't say dohc engines it said more valves = better flow = more power potential - which also happens to relate to a different torque curve which I happen to like - thus explaining why I think it fits the fieros personality better -- yes think, that means its an opnion which I am entitled to share and is relevant to the original question unlike what it became of people trying to say that our reasons were wrong.. you asked why , we told - don't like it? tough.

this should never have turned into a flaim war - but it seems people who like the DOHC engines aren't allowed to have their own opinion unless it is the same as the SBC guys

again I have nothing against sbc's - but it always seems like the SBC guys are trying to stroke there "ego" - especially when they limit the argument strictly to what is has been put ont he 1/4 mile list in fieros as as argument over technology that spans all cars not just fieros -

as for this thread - cliff may as well trash can it because i don't plan to return - it was entertaining while i was at work - but its gotten old and is a waste of time.

quote From " TARGET=_blank>www.chrfab.com[/B] CHRF building the Cadillac of San Cars Speed and Performance with Paramount Safety We at CHRFab have a complete machine shop, welding and fabrication area, engine shop, design capabilities, and experienced personnel to perform the following for you; Engine building services * Engine overhaul and performance upgrades * Turbo systems including intakes, fabricated tubing runners, headers, and intercoolers We have a solid fabrication background behind us. Our goal is building the finest Sand Car available today. The owner is a mechanical/welding engineer with over thirty seven years of experience. The team has designed and built drag cars, off road cars, street cars and trucks, hot rods, and even Indy cars for drivers like Lloyd Ruby, Cale Yarbough, and A.J. Foyt. We have over three hundred hours in computer design in this car. We use only the highest quality parts for your safety and reliability. Our cars are turn-key only with the Northstar power plant. We control every aspect in building your new Sand Car so you can spend your time in the car, not working on it. We are the Northstar Innovators! Our Cadillac Northstar development program started in 1994 and continues today. Even GM has come to us for high performance engines for their show cars. Our engines are also featured in many award winning show cars. Your car will have the entry level Blown Northstar that is dyno tested and tuned to 525 HP with only 5 lbs. of boost, very reliable and on pump gas! This is not a stock lower end with a blower or turbos to make the power. These are truly reliable engine packages to spend your time in the car, not on the trailer. Blowers give instant boost for better "duneability". Change the drive pulleys and the HP goes up at approximately 20 HP/lb of boost. After 15-16 lbs. of boost, we move into intercooled twin turbos. The HP range is almost unlimited, and engine upgrades are always possible. Blower motors 525 - 800 HP Turbo motors 600 - 2500 HP

N*s have a decent aftermarket. It might only have 1 company for aftermarket, but how much more power does a N* need? Forged cranks, rods, pistons, reground cams, springs, retainers and full turbo builds. 1 company supplies everything you need to make big power on this engine.

Dohc engines make just as much torque as a similar displacement pushrod. A 4.6L N* makes 300/295, a 4.9 makes 200/275. In this case it makes more torque than a larger displacement engine and can carry that torque longer which makes it 100hp stronger than a 4.9.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: I "Love" my car's personality !!! Would I do it the same way again ??? You betcha, no doubt about it !!! If I wanted a high reving bearing eater, I could easily swap out the cam, change intake, and re-program the EMC. As said above, the SBC can be easily built to pull 10 grand. Fact is, I can't think of a good reason to do it. Mighty Mouse Lives !

Easily but expensively I live to rev ..Give me an Arias DOHC 302 Mouse please!!

quote Originally posted by crzyone: N*s have a decent aftermarket. It might only have 1 company for aftermarket, but how much more power does a N* need? Forged cranks, rods, pistons, reground cams, springs, retainers and full turbo builds. 1 company supplies everything you need to make big power on this engine. Dohc engines make just as much torque as a similar displacement pushrod. A 4.6L N* makes 300/295, a 4.9 makes 200/275. In this case it makes more torque than a larger displacement engine and can carry that torque longer which makes it 100hp stronger than a 4.9.

I hate to nitpick, and I think we passed this point a hundred posts ago, but really, what does a better power per displacement really mean in reality? I am serious with that question too, as I see people throw around the power per displacement argument all over the place, and I cannot figure out why that statistic is so important.

For instance, a Northstar generally produces more power per liter than an LSx engine, but the LSx engine generally gets better fuel mileage, is dimensionally smaller, has a lower center of gravity, and a lower weight.

I understand there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages to both engines, but I just don't see why a DOHC's higher power per liter is an advantage. If you can get a higher overall power from considerably more liters, in a smaller and lighter package, havng fewer cubes just to have fewer cubes doesn't seem to be an advantage.

Here is a way to get a pushrod sbc to breathe like a dohc

http://www.araoengineering.com/
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20041015-6-022805.html

quote Originally posted by crzyone: I agree with you. The N* is at a disadvantage displacement wise, but it capable of big hp #s with a cam and spring package. Nice thing about smaller displacement means less torque, and big torque in a fiero isn't a good thing. Ask Tina or Cali Kid how many driveline parts they have had to replace with their big displacement engines. A N* will maintain its 300lb/ft but is capable of making 400+ hp. This is easier on the driveline, and more fun to drive imo. A 8500rpm redline, smooth powerband and more driveline friendly sounds like a winner to me. Displacement wise, sbc's are pretty weak. If they could get heads, intake and exhaust to make the power/displacement that some newer dohc engines are making, 570hp wouldn't be hard to hit while being fully streetable. 100hp/L is pretty easily achieved on a dohc engine, 120hp/L on some engines such as an S2000, stock. That would put a chevy 350 at 600hp. Pushrod engines make up for lack of airflow with displacement. The LT1 and the N* were made in the same years, the N* gives up 1.1L to the Lt1 but has the same stock power output. This isn't a bad thing for pushrod engines, and they get the job done.

I would agree that the N* is a great engine for the Fiero. In fact, it has long been my dream engine swap if I should ever get the urge to tear into my Fiero with a big time project! I also completely agree that pushrod engines are making up for their lack of airflow (maybe that is the wrong terminology) with displacement. They certainly do not flow like the N*.

I think at the end of the day (this isn't in direct response to you Cryzone, but more in general to the post) arguing over the difference between OHC and OHV is sort of like arguing over what flavor of ice cream is better. Nobody is "right" overall, but there is always going to be a favorite for each individual. What layout is best really depends on what you want the engine to do, what your application is, and what your performance targets are.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Ask Tina or Cali Kid how many driveline parts they have had to replace with their big displacement engines.

Ask any "Hot Rodder" with "Built Engines" who races their car, or drives it to get the most out of it, the same question, and you'll find that this price comes with the territory. Personally, my engine has never had to be torn down due to a failure, 40,000 extremely hard miles, and still 50 psi oil pressure at idle with Mobil 1 10W30.

As Mike Murphy pointed out above, the personality of the Fiero is in the mind of the Owner. From the number of "Best In Class" I received in "All Makes, Models, 1985 to 1995 Modified", quite a few people don't feel that having a pushrod engine in there is a bad idea !

Each to his own, there are some very fine DOHC Engines out there, it's just a matter of you and your car's personality that will build your dream.

On a side note; I'd venture to say that nearly everyone in this thread supporting the DOHC, haven't ridden in a Fiero like Tina's or Mine to even formulate a Fiero Comparison ! Now I'm waiting for Kameo Kid to jump in here (he knows I'm jerking his chain ).

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-22-2005).]

Cali, like your car and your engine. I just feel a sbc makes too much torque for current fiero drivelines. If that 5.3L transmission or the G6 transmission prove to hold up to the torque, then its a great swap. Or WCF's 5 speed and 6 speed NSX transmission swaps.

I just think a N* has a powerband better suited to a car with a weak driveline. Power through upper rpm airflow rather than through displacement.

Cryzone..............Let's not forget that the Fiero People with SBC swaps, running in the 300 hp/torque range don't have breakage issues discussed above.

Yes, but the sbc's with 300lb/ft are in the low 200s for hp as well. SBC's in the 300hp range, or the ones on the 1/4 mile list are closer to 350-400+ lb/ft.

Power and Torque band can be dialed in to whatever you want with cam profile and timing.

I thought this thread was about the Fiero's personality, not racing for pink slips !

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-22-2005).]

I think that Unrivaled just likes to stirr up the pot. as you can see, has hasnt posted in a LONG time. wouldnt you think that somone that asked about it would want to stay involved in the conversation?

I like this topic, nobody has resorted to personal attacks, its just a good discussion.

If the economy ever gets straightened out, you'll see these trumpets sticking out of my decklid !!!

Nice. Its too bad fiero's engine bays make it hard to build equal length V-8 headers. Skipping your other intake all together eh?

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Nice. Its too bad fiero's engine bays make it hard to build equal length V-8 headers. Skipping your other intake all together eh?

I not that dissatisfied with the headers, and they dump into a 3 inch collector pipe, flow path design isn't all that bad.

The Hilborn setup is the "nuts", I can afford to give up a little torque, and increase the rpm range before fall off over the current setup. But really the main goal with this setup is "WOW" factor, coupled up with the incredible sound that the Hilborn makes when you step on it !!!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-22-2005).]