I never thaught I would do one of these! But this project is too nice and theres to much going on to keep it to myself.
Some would say, why would you want to modify a pacecar? You probably have killed its value. Well, I have learned something about Fiero's over the past almost 5 years I've owned them. Nothing about Fiero's is sacred or too good to make better. If you have ever driven an 84 with 73,000 miles, then drove an 88 GT with 200,000 miles, you would understand where I am coming from. The 88 is a FAR better car when it comes to driveability. So, the story and buildup of the Quad 4 powered Indy Fiero starts.
First comes the background, Lengthy, but It explains everything I have done so far:
1984 Indy Fiero
Origionally started life as an automatic with all options except for door pockets.
7/16/99: When I got the car it had about 73,000 miles on the odometer. This is my first car. I spotted it sitting in a parking lot in a small strip mall. I've been looking for a Fiero to buy for a while. Me and a few friends hovered about the car. After a while the owner came out of the store when he saw us checking it out. He immediatly offered to sell it to my friend (some of you know who) and of course he pointed me out as the interested party. I didn't ask the owner how much he wanted for the car, I just said that "You probably want more for it then I can afford." To witch he replied, "You might be suprised, I'm only asking $1,000 for it." I think my eyes glazed over in joy. And so it was. Unfortunatly he lost the title and had to apply for a new one. The month it took for the title to arrive was the longest month of my life. But when it came in, the car came home. The engine was pretty smokey and noisy. But I knew that I was going to restore this car, of course rebuild the engine and clean and detail... And so I did. I first fixed all the little things that bothered me, mainly the headlight motors, the keylocks, the burnt out bulbs and cleaned many things. I re-sprayed the lower body, did the headliner, cleaned the interior out in the process. Then the engine came out for a rebuild. I took the engine apart and the block went to the machine shop with the head. I had them bore it .030 decked it, boiled it and had them rebuild the head. I did the rest.
9/?/00: Car goes back togather. It would blow blue smoke every time I started it up and everytime I took off from a light.
So much for a rebuild. Aparantly the company doesn't have a clue how to rebuild a head. It also had compression loss in ALL the valves. Oh well, so I drove the car anyway. I burnt up the transmission being stupid showing off spinning the tires. (big lesson learned) So over a few weeks I rebuilt the transmission.
1/?/01: Once again the car is doing ok. I drove it from here till about 11/01, at witch time a free 85 Fiero and a free 89 Grand prix got combined into my first motor swapped Fiero. 3.1 with a 4T60 transmission drove this car instead for a while. After the waterpump went, the 3.4 DOHC went in instead, But thats a whole other story.
6/?02: I got another 84, for free. This one was a 4 speed and ran great. So I decided I would put that driveline into my Pace car. So I did. Very carefully converted the car to stick. I even went to the length to change the interior harness to the Manual harness and even ran the cruise control wires into that harness. The car was once again, ok. I drove the car for several months without many problems. Then the timing gear sheared. in 3/03. So car gets trailered home and I changed the engine back to that origional motor I rebuilt. But this time I put the head from the motor in the car on that engine. Yet again I breathed new life into the ole Pace car. But this time it was not to be. I drove it but one thing after another plagued the car. The motor would randomly cut out. No matter how many times I would fix the fuseable links they would still manage to fall apart. Every other day the car would break down. This time was the last time I dealt with an Iron duke. I even contemplated selling or trading the car for a V6 Fiero. This is around april-may 2003. In july 03 I got my 88 GT for $1500. This changed everything. I never realized how nice it was to have a quick and reliable Fiero. The duke got what was coming. Out it went. To hell with origionality, I need a car that I can drive, and be proud of.

History is history, Let the buildup begin.
This buildup is probably going to last about 2 months. The goal is to have this car on the road with a spotless clean Quad 4 swap, Power steering and steering wheel controled radio, all done for the Carlisle show in May. Kinda like American Choppers without all the yelling. I was inspired tonight to do this buildup thread when I saw how my intake manifold came out after powdercoating it. I realized, that this sets the mark for how good this swap has to come out. I will not be addressing the body for a while, so that is on the back burner. But the engine is the primary issue.
Heres the intake, the Item that has set the mood of this project.

HUGE thankyou to Carl at Long Island Rim, I owe you BIG!

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84 Indy Quad 4
88 Silver GT 5 SP

I love buildup threads! The second pic shows the intake opening for the throttle body, Is the powder coated one bored out? If so what TB are you going to use? Keep the pics coming. Jason

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A coward dies a thousand deaths..................A soldier dies but once.

Red 86 SE
Yellow 87 GT
Gold 86 SE (wrecked)
Red 84 2.5 Coupe
In the process of buying another 87 GT

I think it is cool that you want to mod. up the pace car. We own a pace car but my dad wouldn't dare doing anything to not keep it's origional form. Keep us posted with picks!
-Tarrah*

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 03-15-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: I love buildup threads! The second pic shows the intake opening for the throttle body, Is the powder coated one bored out? If so what TB are you going to use? Keep the pics coming. Jason

You noticed To answer that question, yes It is bored out, Quite a bit too, almost 1/2".

This shows the stock Quad 4 HO throttlebody (witch is also used on the LO's too) and the 96-97 3.4 DOHC Throttlebody mounted on the manifold that is now powdercoated. The size difference is aparant. I made an adaptor plate to bolt the 3.4 DOHC throttlebody.

Tonight I will be building a cart for my tig and my mig welder, so no progress will be made on the car. So I will post the story of the Quad 4 I am putting in later tonight, and most of the pictures of the progress till now, because so much has been done already. You might have a hard time believing how many Quad 4 cars donated parts to fuel this project. Most importantly, over the duration of this buildup, I will give probably the most detailed description of what it takes to put a Quad 4 into a Fiero. I will also detail the power steering installation.

This is going to be a good one! I can't wait to see this thing on the road and at some meetings. Did someone say race??? Well......to see who finishes their cars first that is! We're gonna have some nice cars out here this summer.

Dave

Come on, quit screwing around on the internet!!! If you did some work every once in a while, this thing would get done!!! Whats wrong with you?!?!?!

Ohhh, you said like American Chopper without the yelling. Hehehe

Sounds like a good project, good luck getting it done in time, and keep us updated.

Brad

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'85 SE V6, undergoing GT conversion!

Well, since the weather is absolutley crap, 2" of snow so far, yet another day where absolutly nothing is going to be accomplished. However, its good time to bring you up to speed on this project so far.
First things first.

The "new" motor:
I first purchased the 91 Beretta Quad 4 HO engine and transmission for 800$. Of course I got home and immediatly began to inspect my "find". This is my first Quad 4. I dissassemble the motor only to find that there were 7 small cracks in the head and one crack in the block and the oil pan had a hole in the bottom. The crack in the block was very light and went from the center exhaust side headbolt to the water passage nearest to it. Apparantly the engine had a bad detonation problem in #3 from the crack in the head. I took all the internals out and returned the block on warranty They gave me a 91 Non HO Quad 4. I dissassembled it to find the head was in perfect shape. The block had the same little crack, and a hole in the oilpan (they are cast aluminum. I was going to let the little crack in the block slide, It seemed so minor anyway. So now I have 2 Quad 4's worth of parts. Then I got a call from Bruce from out on the east end of L.I. He offered me a freebie 93 SOHC version of a Quad 4. And was generous enough to throw in a brand new oil pan. Even though the 93 SOHC is the absolute bottom line of Quad 4 engines. It had a newer (93-95) totally redesigned block, heavily webbed on the outside, and reinforced on the inside as well. This block was a winner, GM actually made the metal where my other two blocks cracked, much wider. Obviously they knew something was wrong with the design of the earlier blocks. I put the internals from the first HO engine into the 93 SOHC block with new bearings, then rebuilt the head from the 91 Non HO (HO and non HO heads are the same per given year) new seals, lapped the valves in. put the head on with a new set of headbolts. Then put the HO cam's and cam carriers on the head. Painted the head a nice red color and the head got sprayed silver. Basically thats what it took to make my Quad 4 motor.
I suppose Iv'e done enough typing for now. Skip to the goodies!

Heres the engine partially assembled for the camera

This picture details the spots where a Quad 4 head typically cracks

Again, posing for pictures

Whats with this weather anyway? I'm getting sick of the snow! I guess I'll have to stay in the basement and prepare some parts for powdercoating. I have about a month and a half of work time left before It should be driveable. I was really looking forward to converting my engine into a W41, but the person that was going to sell me the parts decided to back out on me after a month of promises, some people are a real PITA. It's a good thing I refused to send out payment untill the items were in the box ready to go. He never got them ready, so payment never went out. I'm still want a set of W41 cams and maybe a W41 IDI cover, if anyone knows of one. I think I can get ahold of a 3.94 getrag, but we'll see. When I get home from work I will post about my custom shifter cable brackets and lever's, Getrag Fiero owners might want to look into this,

Damn your ahead of me too, I'm just about to mount mine, I have to wait on a welder. I figured out all the wiring yesterday and for my shift linkage i purchased all of rodneys good stuff. Email me if you want my wiring information. It was from an 85 duke without AC and a 90 beretta GTZ i eliminated AC though. I cleaned mine up a little the other day, all i did was attached a wire brush to my drill and spent about 2 hours total.

My email is c.mcarter@shaw.ca

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Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta
@ SouthCenter Mall

Alittle heat and a wheel puller. There is actually a "proper" tool just for removing them, but I dont have one. I have to put it back on though, My car will have power steering.

Nice pics, nice detail ... + for both of ya

Why does your quad have a gm crate sticker on it.

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'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/

no idea really i bought the car after it was written off, it was a 90 beretta and the paperwork said the engine was replaced in 95. I bought it after someone had an accident with it, i never knew that what the sticker meant.

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Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta
@ SouthCenter Mall

Ok, so the weather has been absolutly KILLING my project. No worries, because I've been buying goodies for it! Tomarrow I will be picking up a much coveted 3.94 Quad 4 Getrag! That will make the Quad 4 swap just that much more fun to drive. Along with that purchase I will be picking up a pair of guage clusters from a turbo and a non turbo sunbird. Basically its a Fiero GT style tach (backlit red, starts at 4-5 O'clock) that wraps all the way to 7 one has a boost guage and the other doesn't. The non boosted tach will be going into the Indy. The other is for my SC'd 3.4 DOHC project. (on the back burner while the Indy comes about) When I pick them up tomarrow morning, you know I'll be back to tell you about them. My search for W41 cams and IDI cover keeps coming up shorthanded though. It seems like either Quad 4 W41's have been all taken by collectors, or they don't blow up anymore, or theyre just that rare. Probably a combination of the 3.

You can look on ebay, they have been going for $160 to over $200 for the W41 IDI cover.

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'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/

I spent about 4 hours with a rasp file taking down the casting marks on the runners of the manifold, The ones running right across all fur runners and in some wierd directions. Once those were cleaned up I made sure the manifold was spotless then had a friend powdercoat it. The nice thing about powdercoating is it fills in the cast texture to the point where it looks like glass. We both aggreed that it is now one of the best looking manifolds either of us have ever seen. It came out THAT good.

Iv'e seen those 150-200$ IDI covers on ebay. Thats alot of money for mere decorations! At least the cams are functional. Im the kind of person that won't buy something unless I get a good deal. Even if I have to wait. I have a feeling I will have to skimp out on the W41 parts. At least Im getting the transmission. Speaking of witch Im heading out to pick it up now. Crosses fingers hoping its one of those RARE LSD units but its highly unlikley. Im going to really press them again to get the cams and IDI cover. Maybe I'll get lucky.

oops!

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-20-2004).]

quote Comealongway:

I'd just polish the cam covers and leave the vanity plate off.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-20-2004).]

That ' vanity plate' you speak of is part of the working engine. The coils and the sorta plug wires hook to the bottom. So it is not just there for looks.

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'84 Fiero Sport Quad 4 coming soon
'87 Blue GT
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/

Im considering convertig to some form of an MSD ignition and I'd run spark plug wires although currently im just focusing on getting the engine in and working properly. I go monday to get my front sway bar (going the rear) my IDI cover and both manifolds coated as well so hopefully they will come out nicely, and i can reassumble the engine.
Fierobsessed have you thought of buying from mantapart, I've decided that if the engine is faulty in any way from about 2 years ago when i ran it that im buying the manta part W41 cams and chip the guys on berettastuff.com say it's good for 20 HP. it raises redlline to 7400 too that should be a screamer.

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Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta
@ SouthCenter Mall

Mantapart doesn't seem to have any W41 Cams. They have all other sorts of cams that are way to radical, and pricey. But they do have cam blanks at 200$ a pair, now thats tempting. But I wonder what a regrind costs...
But I did score that 3.94 Getrag today, and a pair of Guage clusters from sunbirds, you can probably guess what's going to happen with them.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 03-20-2004).]

looks good so far. I always thought that if i got an indy (which someday i will) id do the same swap but try to paint the engine up in the original indy style to make it looks as factory as possible

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Carbed 2.9 engine build in progress. forged pistons, crane cam, fully balanced, ARP bolts, double roller timing chain and more
--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

About those sunbird clusters, Origionally I was only going to use just the sunbird tach because it went all the way to 7,000 Rpm's. When I got the clusters I realized something way cooler could happen.
After hours of thaught and cutting, grinding and taping, Something cool did happen!



BTW, the black part in a CD case makes a great block off for unused spaces in the cluster.
I have got to find a better tape for taping the Idiot light images on. The air bubbles look nasty. But you get the Idea of what Im going for.
The digital Speedometer is from the cluster on an 89 Grand prix. I used tri-color LED's to illuminate it. There is now a rotary switch where the trip reset button used to be that changes the colors (red, green, orange) Useless, but cool.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 03-21-2004).]

Wow, that cluster looks good. Keep up the good work.

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EXCELLENT!

How come nobody else thought of this? Your mind is very creative. Perhaps a parts list on the Sunbird dash conversiobn can be done. I would like to do the same thing for my '85 SE Duke. Keep us posted on the HO Quad too. Bated breath.....................

Sincerely,

Kevin J. Sullivan

I've spent alot of time the past 4-5 days just cleaning up the garage. It was getting very difficult to work around the mess(es) So after I did the cleaning, I was checking my gearing ratio's on all the Quad 4 getrags I now have. These findings are somewhat important to the people that have getrag's and DOHC's driving them.
I have 3 Getrags from Quad4 powered cars. 2 are from 91' beretta GTZ's and ones out of a 93' Achieva SCX. All are open diff, so no LSD Anyway, I was doing the ratio's, I had stuffed an old axle end in partway, scribed it and the axle seal, got a clutch disk and a nail to turn it with, I used another mark on the disk and bellhousing to help determine the ratio's with some accuracy.
At first I just did First and Fifth to confirm that the transmissions were definatly different. I found all the transmissions to have almost the exact same First and Fifth gear ratios, so I was pretty ticked off that I bought a 400$ SCX W41 transmission, and its the exact same thing as my 300$ worth of beretta transmissions. So I calmed down and re-did all the ratio's for all the gears. The W41 transmission was the suprising one. It's first and fifth is basically the same as the beretta transmissions. but 2-3-4 are shorter. But what's important is the non W41 beretta transmission's. They have way shorter gears then the Fiero Getrag, and are fairly easy to come by, so there may be hope for those people hoping to change the ratio's in there Fiero getrags afterall! The Fiero getrag is a known transmission, and the Beretta transmission's matched a known set of ratios. So they are accurate. The SCX ratios are assumed with good reason. These are Crank to axle Ratios, witch are more important then knowing final drives.
- - - -Fiero Beretta SCX
1st --12.64 13.61 13.79
2nd-- 7.40 - 7.91- 8.08
3rd-- 4.98 - 4.98 - 5.44
4th-- 3.39 - 3.72 - 4.06
5th-- 2.60 - 2.92 - 2.84
Final 3.61 -3.61 - 3.94
So If you take the gearset from a Beretta GTZ, you will have for the most part, shorter gears if you desire, except 3rd gear witch aparantly is the same in ALL 282 Getrag gearsets.
My 93 Achieva SCX W41's gearing ratios are pretty much a match to the "Known" gearing for w41's, EXCEPT 5th, witch is MUCH taller then I have ever read it to be. It seems that they used a Fiero's fifth, in witch case the final gearing in fifth is now 2.84 witch is Almost exactly what I found it to be. Overall though, the 3.94 vs the 3.61 Quad 4 getrag transmissions, they are pretty much the same, but the gear ratios are alittle closer 1-4 on the 3.94 transmission, Probably not worth the 400$ I just spent on it, but what the heck, I have it now, It gets cleaned up and goes in.

quote Originally posted by 30+mpg: I'd just polish the cam covers and leave the vanity plate off.

Good call
--Bryson

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88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver --> 0-60mph? Yes!)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

Just took the motor out of the car for its final detail cleanup and complete assembly. I finally got to put the intake on for the first time. I just realized that the manifold looks so good that the nice red colored engine block no longer seems to have that killer red color anymore. Perhaps I need a better paint for it. I wonder what I'm going to do to the IDI cover? Hmm...

For those wondering about my cradle and mounts, I have to wire wheel the cradle and paint it, so its a bit rusty looking as of now. Heres the solid mounted cradle.


Heres the front mount and the flattened hump for the AC compressor bracket

This mount had to be custom. Due to the total relocating of the engine and transmission about 1.5" or so down from the stock location, The factory mounts would no longer work without mounting the engine totally crooked. I just hope that the polyeurathane bushing doesn't shake the whole car apart. The loads on this mount force it strait down at great force, but since its on the transmission side, I hope that the vibrations will be dampened by the liquid front mount. We'll see.

Im going to link in another thread that I participated in, This one details how I put powersteering Into the pace car. It's still not done yet, but its doesn't need much. I work as a hydraulic mechanic, so getting power steering lines is easy.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/043565.html
Progress is being made, But I only have about a month to finish, Crunch time has arrived.

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: So If you take the gearset from a Beretta GTZ, you will have for the most part, shorter gears if you desire, except 3rd gear witch aparantly is the same in ALL 282 Getrag gearsets. My 93 Achieva SCX W41's gearing ratios are pretty much a match to the "Known" gearing for w41's, EXCEPT 5th, witch is MUCH taller then I have ever read it to be. It seems that they used a Fiero's fifth, in witch case the final gearing in fifth is now 2.84 witch is Almost exactly what I found it to be. Overall though, the 3.94 vs the 3.61 Quad 4 getrag transmissions, they are pretty much the same, but the gear ratios are alittle closer 1-4 on the 3.94 transmission, Probably not worth the 400$ I just spent on it, but what the heck, I have it now, It gets cleaned up and goes in.

The information I have found about the W41 Getrag is that first, second, third gears are exactly the same as the stock Fiero Getrag. Forth, fifth and of course the final gear ratios are different.

This is the info I have:
MG2 Fiero Getrag
1st: 3.50
2nd: 2.05
3rd: 1.38
4th: 0.94
5th: 0.72
final: 3.61

W41 Q4 Getrag
1st: 3.5
2nd: 2.05
3rd: 1.38
4th: 1.03
5th: 0.81
final: 3.94

Stock Q4 Getrag
1st: 3.5
2nd: 2.19
3rd: 1.38
4th: 1.03
5th: 0.72
final: 3.61

Oddly the non-W41 Quad4 tranny had a different second gear, but has the same 4th gear as the W41 version. This information was gleaned from the 1991 Cutlass Calais Quad 442 manual which listed both the W41 and non-W41 equiped gear ratios. If you have information that says differently for the 1992 SCX, I want to hear about it otherwise I will have to wait until I do my Fiero/W41 rebuild to find if the above is the correct gear ratios.

And yeah, I somewhat wonder if it was worth the $500 I paid for my W41 I got, but then again it would have easily cost that much alone for a 3.94:1 ring and pinion shaft if they were still available.

[This message has been edited by 88-DOHC (edited 03-28-2004).]

In that case, Let me put these in actual ratios as I found them Before Final drive
- - - -Fiero Beretta SCX
1st - 3.50 - 3.77 - 3.50
2nd - 2.05 -2.19 - 2.05
3rd - 1.38 - 1.38 - 1.38
4th - - .94 - 1.03 - 1.03
5th - - .72 - - .81- - .72
Final 3.61 - 3.61 - 3.94

Notice my numbers are different then yours. The W41, I had a feeling would be different, I read somewhere that they made the 5th gear taller in 92 and up, I only proved that fact.
According to http://www.brian89gp.com/other/transmission.htm You are right about the Quad 4 transmission, However I found the actual gearing to match up flawlessly with the "W-Body" Getrag. I would have noticed if it took 12¾ turns in first or just over 13½. So right off the bat I know that the info supplied may not be correct. I have 2 transmissions that say so. Im just alittle dissapointed that the 3.94 and the 3.61 quad 4 getrags are so close, with exception to the huge difference from 4th to 5th.

Tonights progress: The power steering rack brackets are finally welded onto the crossmember.
Tomarrow I intend to patch the last hole in the front crossmember, clean up the work, and paint it. I've almost finished the power steering conversion. I'm getting alittle nervous about the time I have to finish this. I just hope the weather and my suppliers cooperate with me. I just spent alot of $100 on stainless hardware for the engine... So It better look good when its done
Edit: According to the weather channel, its supposed to rain from this wendsday through till next tuesday. Why me? I hate weather. Its been two miserable years of rain and snow. The only nice weather the whole year was at the 20th. Thank god.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 03-30-2004).]

Like I said before my numbers came from the 1991 manual, so its possible they changed the gearing for later models. I wish I had the tools necassary to disassemble the rest of this W41 tranny as I would like to confirm the ratios. If mine already has the higher 5th gear (likes yours) then I only need to change out the bell housing and I'm done (well, sort of. There is still the issue of the shorter shift/select lever). If it doesn't, I wanted to have the stock (higher) Fiero 5th gear in it. Basicly I don't think 5th will be used for anything other then highway cruising anyway, so might as well have the higher gearing. Estimated top speed in 4th is around 130mph@7000 RPM anyway.

In any case, the two versions of the quad4 getrag maybe fairly close, but the 3.94 final gearing will more of a difference then anything else.

[This message has been edited by 88-DOHC (edited 03-30-2004).]

Tonights progress:


The hardest part of the power steering is now done. This week is probably going to be alot of detailing on the engine, some more fabrication, and alot of cleaning and painting. Nothing too exciting. Possibly might get the IDI cover, chain housing and cover all powdercoated. That pretty much completes the major "Must look perfect" parts. Does anyone have any suggestions for the exhaust manifold? I kinda like the way it looks, but its a big rusty cast iron piece. I was thinking of cutting down a L.O. Quad 4's IDI cover to cover it up alittle, but I'm still out on that decision. The stock heat shield is just disgusting looking and I don't think It would go with a show quality swap. Decissions...decissions.

After you get this thing running, please lets us know how well your p.s. system works!

Very good job!

Love your intake, hope i can do somthing like that to mine. How much did the 3.4's throttle body cost you?

Good luck on getting it finished in time for the show.

[This message has been edited by Sjuice (edited 03-31-2004).]

Mine came with a motor. So your best bet would be to go to Car-part.com look for a Throttle body for a 96 Grand Prix 3.4 Usually about $45. The throttle body's are not interchangable, I had to make an adaptor plate out of 1/2" thick aluminum. Don't assume that it will bolt up. Its not even close. If you have access to a mill and lathe, it's not too hard to make the adaptor. Boring the intake is by far the hardest part.
Thanks for the complements guys! I appreciate it. I hope I finish in time (crosses fingers) I hope to have the engine in and running in 3 weeks or less.