quote Originally posted by Fierokid87: Ive been following this thread for a while. Im sorry to hear about your GT. but Im glad your OK. Out of curiousity though. Is the GT gonna be fixable? Or is it toast?

well, anything is fixable with enough money. the biggest thing is getting the frame pulled. i know, people tell me its not worth fixing it, and i'll spend alot more money fixing it than just buying another one, but its not the same. yes, i'll own another fiero as well as the banged up GT, but i really want to fix the GT. it will have to be over a few years, as long as i have storage for it, i plan on fixing it, a little here, a little there. when all is said and done though, i sure will know ALOT about the car, as i will basically be taking most of it apart.

the body im not worried about, or finding the other parts. the biggest thing for me to get will be the frame pulled, and having it done well. time will tell

Joel

4 pages? hmm, i bet it hits at least another by the time trial is said and done

[This message has been edited by justa6 (edited 12-07-2004).]

Good Luck Joel.

As far as frame work goes on your Fiero, if you decide to fix it you can get the best deal by removing the body panels and such yourself. A lot of the labor charged by a body shop is just removing and reinstalling unrelated body panels and bits.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: As far as frame work goes on your Fiero, if you decide to fix it you can get the best deal by removing the body panels and such yourself. A lot of the labor charged by a body shop is just removing and reinstalling unrelated body panels and bits. JazzMan

yeah, the front is almost all removed already, the rear clip isnt yet becasue i didnt want it to sit like that all winter, even though the vehicle is completly covered, and has a tarp structure (so far, its working well too!) protecting it from the elements, i figured it would be a good idea still to keep most of it covered. but yeah, all the body panels will be removed when it comes that time, along with alot of other stuff

Joel

Another Update: when going to small claims court, if the total is OVER $2500 YOU have to serve the person. When we submitted our claim, about 2 weeks later we got it back with the copys and court date. Well, we also get back the defendats copy with paperwork to send them certified mail. Today we got back that BOTH (driver and owner) signed for their court papers. which means thatr when February 10th rolls along, they have to be there unless we settle outside of court. Or, if they dont show, I win automatically. Then come the leans against property and whatnot. Just keeping it updated.

Joel

If the Defendant calls and you work out a settlement, DO NOT drop the case. Get a Continuance. That just puts it off till a later date. That way, if he renigs on the deal you can get a new court date set without having to file all the papers again. Also, if they do offer a deal, get an attorney to draw up an Agreement and be sure to get all Defendants (he and the parents) to sign it. Too often, people offer a settlement, the case is dropped, they'll pay for a while and then peter out. Stay firm. Court problems are like taking a crap. You're not finished until the paperwork is done.
Harry

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87 GT Maroon & 88 Formula Red

quote Originally posted by Dirty Harry: If the Defendant calls and you work out a settlement, DO NOT drop the case. Get a Continuance. That just puts it off till a later date. That way, if he renigs on the deal you can get a new court date set without having to file all the papers again. Also, if they do offer a deal, get an attorney to draw up an Agreement and be sure to get all Defendants (he and the parents) to sign it. Too often, people offer a settlement, the case is dropped, they'll pay for a while and then peter out. Stay firm. Court problems are like taking a crap. You're not finished until the paperwork is done. Harry

well, if he did settle outside of court, i wont drop the date till i have a check in hand and deposited. there is no way that i would agree to have him pay me in installments. i want it all upfront, even if that means he takes out a loan. the only way i'll drop court is IF the check clears and the money is saftly in my account.

Joel

quote Originally posted by justa6: well, if he did settle outside of court, i wont drop the date till i have a check in hand and deposited. there is no way that i would agree to have him pay me in installments. i want it all upfront, even if that means he takes out a loan. the only way i'll drop court is IF the check clears and the money is saftly in my account. Joel

I would strongly recommend that you take any check that they give you to their bank and cash it right away, don't wait for a deposit to clear. If you deposti a bad check you get hit with bad check charges and it's not likely you'll recover that from them without opening a whole 'nother procedure.

JazzMan

No checks ever - If his check is good then they can take the extra 10min and get a money order from their bank.

BTW Might want to find out who did Tina's frame work.

well, i guess i didnt clarify that. i would NEVER accept a personal check. it must be a money order/cashiers check, bank check ect ect. when the time comes abotu the frame, i'll talk to tina. i know it wasnt cheap, but they did terrific work.

lets just hope that the peopel realize im not sitting around with this, and that i will go to court. im not bluffing. just hoping that they will cooperate

Joel

Ok, court is on the 10th and i am sueing both the owner fo the vehicle and the driver. they both signed for the court papers, and are served. i have a question for anyone that is willing to help.

i know how i am going after the driver, because he was the one driving and is responsible for causign the accident. now what im not exactly sure about is how to go after the owner. do i hit him up for being responsible for the car, since it was in his name, and he neglected to have proper insurance?

the driver is 19, so he is a legal adult. the owner of the vehicle has a different last name than the driver, but lives at the same address. from what i have found out, the mother had forbid the 19 year old to not take the car, but he did anyways. (i cannot prove this, its what i found out from the lawyer and that mess, read further up the pages, i think it is in there)

so, i guess the questions i have is........ what do i exactly need to go after with the owner. is it enough just to go after him for not having proper insurance on the vehicle ont he road? i know what he could say to that, and that is "i never gave permission to (19 year old) to take the car so i cannot be held responsible. ok, if he says that, then what? so then the car is stolen? but the owner wouldnt press charges......

so.......he would be held rsponsible, unless he declared it stolen. help me out with this guys!!!

Thanks

Joel

Im no lawyer but I do know this: My dad used to always say, "You cant get blood out of a turnip" meaning that you can sue a 19 year old kid for all he's got but chances are he doesnt have much. Once you do win, he would certainly have to pay big time,,,,but it's probably going to be in the installment plan! Suing them both will ensure that you get the settlement you want in a more timely manner. Though both are responsible, Im not sure to what extent the OWNER is responsible. You and your defense team will have to figure that one out.

Kit (86 GT)

Well as far as responsibility goes, the owner didn't report the vehicle stolen so therefore it was used with their permission. The owner/insurer is always the one ultimately responsible for the vehicle. My father had an unregistered/uninsured vehicle stolen off of his property and then recovered. He was responsible for impound fees, etc. If the car had crashed through a house or plowed into another vehicle he would have been fully responsible for any damages even if that meant remortgaging his house to pay for it. This happened in New York so i don't know if other states have different rules.

if he's going to college and still living at home, his partents are still responsible until he turns 21 or moves out on his own.

The driver is responsible for obvious reasons.

The owner is responsible for failing to properly insure the vehicle and leaving the keys out where the care could be taken. The only way the owner could be absolved of responsibility is if they had reported the car stolen. Then the police would have pressed criminal charges.

Jen

february 10 is just around the corner.........and im starting to get anxious

quote Originally posted by justa6: february 10 is just around the corner.........and im starting to get anxious

Try to relax, this will play out hopefully in your favor. I've got my fingers crossed for ya!

JazzMan

one week!

I've been keeping an eye on this thread. I may be going to court over my wreck. Little bit different situation though. The other person had insurance, but they're not offering me much.
You just have a few days to go now. Remember to wear nice clothes, and use "sir" and "ma'am" a lot.

Good luck in court (although I doubt you'll need it, I'm sure you'll win). Can't wait to see what happens.

quote Originally posted by sqoach: I've been keeping an eye on this thread. I may be going to court over my wreck. Little bit different situation though. The other person had insurance, but they're not offering me much. You just have a few days to go now. Remember to wear nice clothes, and use "sir" and "ma'am" a lot.

yeah, im not a scrub, so i'll look nice, be very........professional in my speaking. im goign to be puting together a portfolio of the car after the accident, and lots of pics before the accident, INCLUDING pictures of it at car shows. i have a few of those too. funny thing is, just this lsat spring, i took a bunch of body shots of the car, like to show how straight it was and interior shots showing the condition it ws in. i did that for a magazine i was puting together for my senior project. i have all those photos too. 99% of the phots i have of it before the accident are not digital, so i can not even get accused of "altering" the pictures.

im pretty relaxed right now abotu it, but i am just keepign busy trying not to think about it. thats about all i can do. i know what i have to do, im just not looking forward to it. no one likes court, unless you are a lawyer. i never thought i would be in this situation, but, i am, those are the cards i got delt, so i'll deal with it one step at a time. thats all i can do...........................................5 DAYS!

Joel

oh yeah, i kept meaning to add these. this is how the car sits right now (although, it is now covered in snow.) this was in november.... i wanted to keep the snow, and water off it as much as possible since there is no hood front bumper, and fenders on it. also, the drivers door doesnt seal as good as it should (still seals though.) the tires were brand new (still are but need to replace one of them) so it is on jackstands (suspension is not hanging) and under the tarps and structure. the only thing that is different that what these look like it i added 2 peaks to help water flow off of it. its been holding up very well so far. i think total it cost me about $75 for the wood, tarps, and hardware.

Joel

so, the time has come, that i am collecting pictures of my car. some are at shows, some are just of the car, and some are of the accident. let me break it down a little for you

i have about 90 pictures from before the accident (in the 8 years ive owned it)
21 from the night of the accident (pics include both cars, his and mine)
and something like 46 showing more in depth details of the amount of damage done to the vehicle that i shot a few days after when goign to get an estimate done of the damage.

how many photos do you guys think i should bring? i plan on picking and choosing, takeing the best of the best, and obviously, all the photos of it at car shows, and of close up details (i have some shots looking straight down the side of the car, under the front compartment, engine, all that.

for accident photos, i plan on taking all the photos of the details and most of the ones doen from the nigh of.

let me know what you guys think!

Joel
oh yeah, and 2 days till court!

I'd bring only enough photos to well-represent the condition of the car... roughly one that shows each angle/side of the car - and a couple of detail shots showing panel alignment and interior condition. Keep it simple, but thorough - obviously... use the best quality photos of the bunch.

Sounds like you're pretty well prepared - well be thinking of you on the 10th - Good luck!

Thanks Rob for the support!

yeah, i agree with you to keep it simple. I'm puting together a portfolio right now of the car, printing off the digital images and getting together the film ones as well. thankfully, most of my photographs of the car from before the accident are on film, and that is how they will be represented. so they cannot even accuse me of "photoshoping" the images.

again to everyoen, thanks for all the support and help thoughout this whole mess. hopefully, it will all be over soon, so i can buy another fiero, and begin to rebuild this one (over the next few years).

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The unfortunate history of my GT

"I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin

DUN DUN DUN, thursday is the day......... just 1 day, 25 hours, 40 minutes...........

Good luck, we'll all be thinking of you. I know you'll tell us how it turns out.

Indeed, lokd like I read this threat right in time. Now to see if he pays up properly, as we know you'll win the case

this sucks, having to go to court when you havent done anything wrong. im sitting here printing off stuff and getting all my paperwork together. its real frustrating that i even had to take days off work to do this.....

Good luck!

Good luck, they came by and totaled my car last night.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/049022-2.html
They offered me book price and I told them that it was worth more than that so now they are doing a market value on the car.
We will see, what ever happens I will not be letting them take the car.

Good luck. I hope everything goes in your favor today.

thanks, well, im all dressed up and off to court, i'll update later tongiht or tommorrow moring to let you all know what is happening.

Joel

Good luck, Joel!

Hey guys, I just got back up to Bemidji and am glad today is over. I don’t think anyone ever wants to go to court, but sometimes you have to. I never thought I would be in court, but I ended up there. So, without further adu.

Court went well today. We (my dad and I) were the 3 or 4th case heard. The other cases were all involving businesses and individuals. I think that my total time that I was talking to the judge was about 20 minutes. We arrived about 50 minutes early since we had never been to anything like this before. Walking up to the court room was nerve racking in itself. My friend was already there (the one in my car) he had gotten off work early, and it took him not as long to get there as he had thought. So, then the waiting game started. The funny thing is, we were sitting on the bench outside the court room, since the room was locked still. The next people to arrive were the kid I was suing and the owner of the vehicle. They arrived about 5 minutes after we did. With us sitting at one end of the bench, they sat at the other end. We didn’t say a word to each other.

After the 50 minutes or so went by, the court room was finally opened. We sat down on the benches and waited some more. The court room aid went over what we were suppose to do and the rules of the court. One thing that we had to do was exchange all the evidence that we would be showing the judge and let the other party see it before the trial. So we did that.

Then, we got to sit though about 3-4 other trials first. In small claims, there are multiple trials scheduled for the same time. Each one is heard when the judge gets to it on its list. All the trials before us went very fast, as either the defendant did not show up, or they had decided to settle just before getting up in front of the judge. Then, it was my turn.

After swearing in I gave my side of the story. I talked about what happened in the accident, said where the damage came from, explained how he pulled out from around another vehicle and turned directly in front of me. Explained how he failed to yield, and did not have insurance on the vehicle. The judge asked me if I had pictures and I presented my binder full of images before and after the accident. For some of the before accident pics, I used pictures from previous shows I had shown the car at. I also included multiple close up shots of the vehicle along with different angles. The accident shots show the damage to the front, both sides, and rear of my car. It also showed the defendants car there (some of the same images on page 1) and showed the damage to his car as well.

The judge asked me more about the car show pics and I explained to him about how car shows are, and that I showed the car as a hobby. I had probably 6-7 different pics from different shows. I had pictures showing the quality of the paint, body alignment, everything.

After that the judge asked me about the body shop estimate. He asked me why the estimate was for over 6300 and I was seeking less than that. I explained then that the "fair market value" of the car is less than the damage. He asked me to prove that, and I did showing him the NADA Blue book value of the car and probably about 10 different examples of the car for sale in autotrader and carsoup within a 300 mile radius had a range from over 5000 and a low of 3400 (the NADA value .

He asked me about the tow charges also, and I presented him with the receipt that we had to pay to get the car out of storage for over $260. I had a lot of evidence showing the "fair market value" of the car and all the other expenses that we have had to pay out from this whole situation.

When he got done asking me questions, he asked the defendant his side of the story. He stood there dumbfounded like...."uhh....uhh....." the judge then asked him to explain what happened that night. He gave the story about how him and his cousin went and played pool at the pool hall with some girls, and when the left, the girls were in front of them and they had been joking around earlier with them blah blah blah. He said the girls had kept hitting the gas and brake in their car (in front of the defendant) and he thought that they were just messing with him. That’s when he pulled out around them. He said that he DID NOT EVEN SEE ME. Until the cars hit. The judge basically made him admit that he struck my vehicle, failed to yield, and pulled out from around the other vehicle.

The evidence that he supplied were pics of his car after the accident, and the Kelly's Blue Book value of my car. He did one search where it was as if for sale from a dealer and that came up to $2800 and then did one as a private party seller and that came up to $2300 .

Basically, he knows he is in the wrong and knows he is going to pay, but did not feel that I was asking a fair price for my car. He is wanting to get away with paying less for what the car is worth.

That is pretty much the reason why we ended up in court. He thinks the value of the car is less than what I value the car at, and wasn’t willing (or didn’t know) he could negotiate outside of court. So, that is why we ended up in court.

The judges ruling? Well, small claims they usually don’t give a judgment RIGHT there. The judge said that he will be making his decision later that day and be having it mailed out either that day or the day after. So we will be receiving the judgment in the mail probably early next week.

I presented a VERY strong case and the defendant seemed like he had put it together the night before. If he would have done some more research maybe he would have realized that the value was more than what he was planning. Since he had no idea what kind of condition my vehicle was in before the accident, it is difficult for him to say the condition. I strongly belive in getting "fair market value" instead of just "blue book value" becasue it shows what the vehicles are selling for right now. Its not some price added into an equation that gets updated every year or 2. I hope the judge realizes that and that is why I presented him with so many examples above the blue book value of the car.

Hope this keeps you all satisfied till I get my judgment

Joel

on a side not, it was great when the defendant was using double negatives explaining what happened!
oh, and when you go to court, it probably inst smart to wear jeans either! (I wasnt, I was in business attire)

I'm glad you had a good day in court. Hopefully the judge will teach that kid a lesson, and give you what you need to put your Fiero on the road again.

Congrats on the strong case. You did your homework and I hope the judge makes it pay off for you.

Congrats so far - sounds like everything went quite well, and the I'm sure the Judge could see that the evidence was all in your favor... keep us posted!

Sounds like you did very well.

On a side note...

There are many people here with Fieros in the $10,000 to $15,000 range.

Could you imagine the trouble you would have without the proper coverage?

Sheez.