I'm curious how much it cost you...... Such a simple mod...... I'm also kinda curious why you didn't do it yourself? I can't remember how they're keyed, but it looks like it's just a slot on the sprocket - i.e. a 10 sec job on a mill.
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06:41 PM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I'm curious how much it cost you...... Such a simple mod...... I'm also kinda curious why you didn't do it yourself? I can't remember how they're keyed, but it looks like it's just a slot on the sprocket - i.e. a 10 sec job on a mill.
Cost me $10 which included shipping. It just seemed easier and a good deal for them do it all.
Pete
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07:06 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
CHRF's prices are not that bad. Fiero owners are just cheap.
It looks simple, but it's along the lines of "$1 to hit the machine with a hammer, $19,999 to know exactly where to hit it". The sprockets drive the cams via a pin on the front of the cam and are held in with large bolts at the center. Redrill the hole and put it on elsewhere, but you have to redrill the hole exactly where it needs to be, which involves the making of a fixture to hold the sprocket and a mill or CNC lathe to locate the new hole exactly. Not necessarily a cheap process.
CHRF's prices are not that bad. Fiero owners are just cheap.
Will you hit the nail right on the money!!!!
Pete I may consider doing the cam sprokets too. Is safe to leave the exhaust ones stock? or ret. them also 4 deg's ???
Joe
------------------ Team Race-Tech Automotive inc. Specializing in Fiero performance 3800 swaps, big Brakes, Engine rebuild, Aftermarket wheels, Bolt on performance parts, body enhancements, MOMO dealer.
AJ likes 104 degrees ATDC for intake lobe center (about 8 degree advance) on N/A engines... I guess 108 ICL on boosted engines runs better... Makes sense.
Well we finished assembling the engine, now its just awaiting the manifolds. The cam timming went pretty smoothly for a couple of first timers. and modified timing too. We purchased a 46 mm Tial external waste gate today so I don't have to worry about the boost creeping up on us.
Pete
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09:34 PM
Mar 26th, 2005
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
If you look closely you can see the intake cam sprockets are timed a bit defferently.
A bit of an update. The cam covers are still with a friend of mine that works at a body shop being worked over to remove the extra bulges and such. We were recommended by Chrfab to run a 95 or newer intake manifold so it has now been purchased and on its way from Santa Fe, New Mexico. The engine is now loaded on the trailer and will be going out it Jim's for the custom exhaust to include the turbo manifold placed over the transmission and other modifications to allow the 4.6 to accept a 4T60 transmission.
The plan is to have this swap done and tested to drive down to Carlisle, So there are some changes from the original plan. Beck (the owner of the car) wants this engine to be simple and easy, as far as electonics are concerned and programing at the track. she wants a Holley Commander 950. I know very soon the 730 ecm will be running a DIS N*, but likely not ours.
Pete
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10:01 PM
PFF
System Bot
AaronZ34 Member
Posts: 2322 From: Colorado Springs, CO Registered: Oct 2004
Do you think you will have any problems with the 4T60 tranny? I know the Lumina Z34s, with the 4T60e, only lasted 150k max, and you are at least doubling the horsepower, and increasing the low end, off the line torque quite a bit too.
I gotta get outta this DOHC V6 obsession of mine and get into the DOHC 8s...lol I like it!
------------------ 1988GT 5-speed Black with grey leather, I pick it up this May! 1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed Stock, new crate engine and transmission
Want custom equal length headers for your V6 Fiero?
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11:58 PM
Mar 27th, 2005
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by PBJ: We were recommended by Chrfab to run a 95 or newer intake manifold so it has now been purchased and on its way from Santa Fe, New Mexico.
They're the experts, but what was their reasoning? I'm curious.
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12:27 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by AaronZ34: Do you think you will have any problems with the 4T60 tranny?
Whoa, I just read that. No offense, but are you crazy!? a 60 might have a chance against a stock northstar (ha). Even a built 60 has no chance against a turbo N*....... I hope your builder has a money -back warranty.
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12:34 AM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Hugh had this transmission built for his SBC 383 Turbo project but decided he wanted to go electronic shift. So the transmission should be built strong enough it includes a Phantom Grip LSD. But nothing last forever thats for sure, the turbo 4.9 has already recked its share of transmissions. As for why Chrfab recommended the newer style intake, I was in contact with him about ideas I had for the 93-94 style and his only answer was drop it and go with the new style it is better in every way. So I guess I could do some home work and find out why but at this point all I needed was advise from the expert and I will figure out why later. That is one of the joys that I did not have with the 4.9 setup because other people had not yet gone there and there was no experts to recommend there past experiences. This will be an exciting summer for sure, and some actual physical progress soon since the machine needs to be up and running in a month and a half.
Pete
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08:54 AM
CTFieroGT87 Member
Posts: 2520 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Oct 2002
Whoa, I just read that. No offense, but are you crazy!? a 60 might have a chance against a stock northstar (ha). Even a built 60 has no chance against a turbo N*....... I hope your builder has a money -back warranty.
That is what I was trying to say, reread my post, I questioned whether it would be strong enough or not, mentioning that the 60 can barely handle the 3.4's power.
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12:43 PM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I questioned whether it would be strong enough or not, mentioning that the 60 can barely handle the 3.4's power.
Have you seen my wifes burn out video's, WE ALL know its not a matter of if, but when This year a line lock will help those rear rotors from glowing in the burn out box. For us this car is not our only transportion, but is ment as a fun car that is built well with what we have and know. Thats why it is raced so much, for the fun. If the transmission is rediculiously unworthy then it will be "upgraded" to something more reliable...we shall see, ehh.
Pete
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09:40 PM
Mar 28th, 2005
rubyredfiero Member
Posts: 720 From: Belle River, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jul 2003
Awsome work Pete. I envy yourself, spearce and all your help. It's stuff we all dream about but don't have the smarts to accomplish. Looking forward to seeing it at the meets. Oscar.
The engine is going over to Jims on Monday where we will begine to mount it on a cradle, No worries about that dirty transmission, it is just the spare tranny we will be using for mocking up the mounts.
Here is where there is a big interferance fit between the N* water passage pipe the and reverse servo of the 4T60.
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03:23 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
The engine is now out at the shop. Here are a few pics, sizing up the cradle for the N* and transmission. But first we are building the exhaust and fixing the cooling log to transmission fit issue. The process should take off quickly now. I hope that US/Canada customs does not hold us up to badly.
Pete the question is two-fold? Why go 4 deg adv on the intake? An opened ended question...I will appreciate it if you discuss this more or is this solemnly CHRFAB specs? and can you or someone pls post the 4.X V8 DOHC cam specs... thanks
------------------ the ORIGINAL 3800 II v6 intercooled turbo...
I was impressed with your 4.9, and from the looks of things I won't be disappointed with this latest swap. I credit you for your ambition on these projects - I have lost alot of my ambition / drive for projects as I get older. Many guys that work on cars for a living don't like doing it in their spare time but you are certainly an exception. Kudos to you!
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11:05 PM
Apr 6th, 2005
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
The intake cam advance for our aplication was done competely on Chrfabs recommendations. Our last engine build up had enough trial and error that this one is going to be done now like others have done before, specifically Chrfab.
FrugalFiero, this car is our hobby and we do have fun playing with it. It was just about put of forsale in the fall to start another, but we found we were just too attached to it. Looking forward to the summer and cruising with yous again!
This is totally beautiful work Pete. Can't wait to see it.
Ditto here. Almost makes me wish I was still around to see it at a show this summer. Ah well, perfect the swap this year, then next year you'll have a customer wanting a turbo N* in his new Fiero
Brad
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11:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Apr 9th, 2005
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
The coolant bypass log has been modified to allow the 4T60 to fit.
Here we have it! N* combined with a well built 4T60. (this is not the one running in the N*. That one is still mated up to the 4.9 turbo)
The first manifold, now cut down and being re constructed. The turbo will be placed where we have it on the 4.9.
Now for the turbo. I just picked it up today and its ready to go. Guaranteed to spool quick and produce a flat torque curve. This turbo is competely custom built, its main goal in mind was to flow alot of air at 5psi or less, efficiently.
Pete
[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 04-09-2005).]
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02:53 PM
THE BEAST Member
Posts: 1177 From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA Registered: Dec 2000
THE BEAST-The turbo that I supplied as a core for our turbo came off a Saab (there was a large list of vehicles with acceptable turbos that I could use as a core), but the one I supplied did not have coolant passages and this one that I got back from him does. Both the compressor and turbine side have been re-machined and modified. This is this companies specialty www.cherryturbos.com
pavo_roddy-We are aiming for 450 crank hp, We did not use the 4T80e because the ecm(s) I was looking into do not operate electonic shift transmissions, the 4T80 is huge and heavy. Plus we already have a well built 4T60 for our current turbo 4.9 setup that was built to handle 650 hp.
wow! I was expecting something in line with chrf's other prices..... like $100 for the set of 4
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and modified timing too. We purchased a 46 mm Tial external waste gate today so I don't have to worry about the boost creeping up on us.
