Ok, this is cool. C5 front suspension geometry will fit into Fiero. Upper A-arms are almost 8 inches long. Steering is Mustang 2 with zero bump, RC is two inches, rim width is 8.5, ground clearance is 4 inches. Spindles have two existing holes to bolt on a new steering arm. A wheel wider than this could probably be used because the pivot point is moved outward.
I assume this will require a custom cross member (which really is the easier part of suspension design/build)
ohhh yeah, theres some progress! i aint tryin that in wood though!! i like A alot.
what are your plans for hubs? i can see eight of them on the bench from here, and they all require a hole in the mounting plate for the "rest" of the bearing to protrude through?
yeah the bearing plate would be cut and drilled to fit the bolt on hubs
I need to firm up the design and source the shocks. I'm trying to keep this as inexpensive as possible and still work well. Do you think people would want to spend the extra money for coil overs or would want to use their existing springs with an aftermarket shock?
If it's at all possible, I would say both. Bolt-in spring/shock mounts that would allow one to pop for the crossmember and Vette stuff and enjoy the fruits of his or her labor while they recover and save for a really great set of double-adj coilovers.
If not, probably the coil-overs. This is really meant for performance junkies, and it should be worth it for them to wait and save up the additional cash if necessary, to have great handling.
The MII rack is really cheap, so that shouldn't be a problem.
------------------ Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic" todd's hot rods
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-17-2005).]
Don't worry about the speed of the mustang rack. This will be adjusted with the steering arms. It will be quick and the option is there for power steering if you want it. There's a gazillion of these in salvage yards you can get cheap. I also found a way to use cheaper lower ball joints that will save $200 and make fab of the lower a-arms easier. I made some bolt on steering arms in another thread which were pretty easy. I guess we go with the coil-over option only. I think I'll play around with a rear cradle design that would bolt in using double wishbones in place of the strut.
well im a little emberassed that i didnt notice the author of my other favorite thread "Building a tube frame fiero". i guess gusshotrod is really really REALLY busy, so i should cut him some slack.
yeah!, on the rear upper a arms, ive wanted to do this for years. no bump steer!
i was trying to find c6 corvette measurements to see about locating that setup, and i found this info on "Z" and "D" height. thought this would help determine the correct angle (acording to gm) for the lower arms. then i saw that it is the same for 05 and 04. so here is the info if it helps. front
rear
[This message has been edited by ricreatr (edited 02-25-2005).]
this is c4 on i believe an old camaro subframe. doesnt look like very impressive scrub settings the steering arm has been cut off, and a new added. is the ackerman right? i thought the arm was supposed to point in, not out?
Imagine a line through the upper and lower ball joints. Now imagine another line from the center of the rear end and intersecting the first line. The steering tie rod end should be one that line. It will be farther out if the car is front steer and in if it's rear steer. The rack location on this car also adds ackerman as it is behind the outer tie rods, with the arms angled forward.
IP: Logged
01:34 PM
Feb 28th, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
One note on coil overs vs. the Vette's composite leaf... GM tunes the leaf by adjusting the location of the pivots that anchor the leaf to the chassis. A custom bracket to make adjustable mounts for the leaf would allow adjustment in spring rate and roll rate. With a small adjustable anti-sway bar, you'd get more adjujstability out of the leaf than out of a set of coil overs. Ride height adjusts via the points where the leaf anchors to the control arm.
If my new job comes through... I've had my eye on a C5 down the way a little bit for a while now...
i can get 98 vette suspension for $750. i know it isnt a rippoff, but is it something i just cant pass up? front. control arms, knuckles, hubs, rotors, and calipers.
IP: Logged
10:58 PM
Nov 1st, 2005
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
I'm assuming you're planning to make a crossmember to retrofit it into your Fiero? This would be the point where blueprints could be developed for others to do the same...
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Sorry, guys, nothing from me. i have a big block boat project taking up all my time and money i was hoping to get more progress from the big dogs. for $125 i got hubs, knuckles, and upper arms. i am still looking for lowers, then the work starts.
IP: Logged
09:08 AM
PFF
System Bot
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
No progress here either. Actually, after hundreds of hours of research I came to the conclusion that building the kind of performance I want in a Fiero is just too expensive. I may come back to this idea later, but for now I have to chase my performance goals in a different platform. My Fiero project has digressed into a nice, gas-sipping, little cruiser
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
The weak link is the transmission. I am not even convinced that the mega-dollar 4T65E race tranny that GM is using is the solution for a street-driven race car like I want. The attached string is always "if you drive it like you have some sense...", but that's my whole point - I want a car that I can drive like I don't have any sense
I do have some ideas for unlimited, unbreakable, drivetrain setups, but have yet to find a way to do it without spending five figures. I was even willing to justify that, until I compared it to building a conventional front-engine/rear-drive car.
Other than that the potential to build a Fiero that will out handle almost anything you'd come across, short of a real modern race car, is definitely there. C5 suspension systems turn old muscle cars into awesome sports cars, so I can only imagine what it would be like in a mid-engine, relatively lightweight, format.
I haven't completely ruled it out, just put it on simmer, on the back burner. I would be interested in experiencing it through someone else's baank account though I have hundreds of hours of research, one completely dissected Fiero, one partially dissected Fiero, one stripped parts car, and one guinea pig Fiero's worth of experience, and a boat load of ideas to contribute.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-05-2006).]
IP: Logged
09:18 PM
May 6th, 2006
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Even with the 4T80E it would take a person with enough money and desire to take a Fiero to its limits. The goal woiuld have to be finding the limits of the Fiero. I want to find MY limits
It's the experience of a lo-9/hi-8 second pass, a 200+mph sprint across the sand, or exiting a 1.2g corner and looking forward to the next one - not the fact that I did it in a "whatchamacallit".
IP: Logged
09:17 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Aren't/weren't you building a tube frame fiero like Guss? The trick to any of those feats (without having to sell the farm) is light weight. Hell, build a 1000cc gixxer cart. When you're done with your heart attack on wheels, we'll be waiting for you...
IP: Logged
11:00 PM
May 7th, 2006
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Originally posted by ryan.hess: Aren't/weren't you building a tube frame fiero like Guss?...
Close but you ain't smokin' the cigar. My project was to be based on a factory space frame cut down to its bare minimum, and combined with a LOT of tubular stuff. Every bit as radical, but a different approach.
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess: ...The trick to any of those feats (without having to sell the farm) is light weight. Hell, build a 1000cc gixxer cart...
Lightweight or a lot of nitrous. I actually prefer a combination of the two. Losing weight is only inexpensive to a point. After a certain point you begin to pay dearly for each pound. At that point, nitrous becomes the best solution. Building big power properly with it isn't exactly cheap either but it is the most cost efficient route. I also happen to love the whole concept.
The cart wouldn't do it for me, though I am sure it would be one heck of a rush. I want to do it in a car. A Fiero is my limit on how small I would go.
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess: ...When you're done with your heart attack on wheels, we'll be waiting for you...
I think of it being more like rubbing those two paddles together and bringing my heart back to life. I stopped drag racing motorcycles about ten years ago, and I need something to get my blood flowing again. I wobbled at about 105mph and had an epiphany - I could have just as much fun in life with a slow bike and a fast, roll cage-equipped, car Since then maturity and responsibility keep getting in the way of my "cardio" workouts
Related subject: What ever became of your transmission controllers?
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
IP: Logged
03:41 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by toddshotrods: I think of it being more like rubbing those two paddles together and bringing my heart back to life. I stopped drag racing motorcycles about ten years ago, and I need something to get my blood flowing again. I wobbled at about 105mph and had an epiphany - I could have just as much fun in life with a slow bike and a fast, roll cage-equipped, car Since then maturity and responsibility keep getting in the way of my "cardio" workouts
Related subject: What ever became of your transmission controllers?
If I ever get rich, I think I'd have to build a race track on some farm land. But then when I think about it, I think I'd rather sell the fiero and just buy a decommissioned MIG.
I stopped building the transmission controllers. Still running the one in my car though.
)
I have hundreds of hours of research, one completely dissected Fiero, one partially dissected Fiero, one stripped parts car, and one guinea pig Fiero's worth of experience, and a boat load of ideas to contribute.
