Not the kind with the back of a Fiero welded to a motorcycle. I'm talking about one based on a Fiero cradle and rear suspension and a motorcycle frame. A minor difference but very significant - it won't look like a Fiero is humping a motorcycle

Why discuss it here? One, the idea is Fiero-based, because the transplanted front-drive powertrain, on a special cradle is the essence of the Fiero. Two, all the rear suspension upgrades would apply to "regular" Fieros. Three, my infatuation with Fieros is what gave birth to the idea.

That being said, I am not 100% sold on building this yet. I am seriously considering it. I have the parts sitting here and I am trying to decide whether or not this is something I really want to do. Not sure if I will like riding a trike, but I guess I could always sell it if I don't like it. This site on VW-based trikes gave me some good info and made me move from a crazy idea to serious consideration. Check out the tech article too.

So, I started thinking that with a Fiero-based, transverse, mid-engine layout, and rear suspension tuned for a predictably loose rear end - it could be fun to ride. I rode a converted motorcycle trike once and wrote all trikes off as ill-handling wastes of my time. I never considered the possibility that a trike could actually handle and be fun to ride. Not so sure about his claim that his trikes will out handle any sports car or motorcycle. Sounds like creative marketing to me, but I get his point.

What do you guys think?

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

From your recent work I've seen here I'd have to say that if anyone can do it right - it's you!

As to the handling aspects of it, I don't think there's any way you could really make it handle as well as either a 'cycle or a sportscar - but it'd be fun & a great exercise & demonstration of your further creativity and engineering.

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Looking for Fiero posters?

I used to have a pic of a very nice one. Fiero cradle, motorcyle front end, custom bodywork and powered by a 3800 n/a.

I have the motorcycle front end and frame section. I have the spare Fiero cradle. I have a 3100/4T60E sitting on blocks right behind the mocked up motorcycle project - which is what actually started the "maybe I should marry these two and make a trike" idea. I was working on the engine/trans combo for another project and building a stretched out chopper/dragbike a few feet away. It's really tempting

I keep thinking about 335/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sports in back with one of those fat 300/35VR18 Avon Venom motorcyle tires up front! The way I have the motorcyle frame set up, it would look really trick with that big fat tire and two even fatter, flatter, ones out back! I'll try to rearrange things today and snap a few pics to show you guys what I am thinking.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-12-2005).]

If you want inspiration for a trike that handles like a dream, go here

http://www.carver.nl/home.htm

I've always wanted to build something similar to this using a Fiero cradle and drivetrain, except open cabin, so you would have the wind in your face.

I think I am actually going to build this thing!!!

I blocked the powetrain up behind the bike frame and then flanked it with a couple 15x10" wheels to get an idea what it would look like - I like it! I'll have some pics tomorrow. The camera is currently packed for a business outing but it'll be free tomorrow evening. Until then here are some pics I found surfing. Even though it's a converted Harley, it still helped me warm up to the idea of building a trike:



Gotta love the Lord of the Rings theme

I don't have as much of the long-forked chopper look. My front end is lower, with less rake, and I have aluminum clip-on bars instead of traditional bars. The seat is really low which puts the flipped clip-ons at just about shoulder height for me. I have a lot on my plate right now but when I get some time I am going to pull the cradle out of the parts car and mock it up with the frame and powertrain to see what I need to do to join them.

Yeah I saw the Carver trike on a Fine Living network show last weekend IIRC. Pretty sweet, but I don't want to get into the whole hydra-mechanical pivot deal. I wouldn't want the closed cabin either, but it's probably a good place to start for them because they'll attract none-motorcyle types as well. It has a roll cage. On the show they said there will be other models to follow but I wasn't paying attention to see if they showed what they would look like. I would bet there'll be an open model in the future though. The price is pretty steep though at $50K!!!

More to come...

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-12-2005).]

How about a V8 4.9 Cadillac powered 3 wheeler?

Squint your eyes, open your imagination, dare to dream, and see if you see what I see in this mockup:


Don't mind the rusty tank shell I am just using it as a plug to make a fiberglass one. It would also just be an ornament on the trike because it's gonna need a lot more gas than a little sporty style tank can hold I have to come up with a tank design that would fill the space where the motorcyle engine once was.

Also - sorry for the fuzzy pics, I'm working on getting a new digi, and for the messy shop - I wait until I can't find anything to clean

Thoughts? Comments?

Edited to add logo to pics
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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: Squint your eyes, open your imagination, dare to dream, and see if you see what I see in this mockup: Don't mind the rusty tank shell I am just using it as a plug to make a fiberglass one. It would also just be an ornament on the trike because it's gonna need a lot more gas than a little sporty style tank can hold I have to come up with a tank design that would fill the space where the motorcyle engine once was. Also - sorry for the fuzzy pics, I'm working on getting a new digi, and for the messy shop - I wait until I can't find anything to clean Thoughts? Comments?

I think it shows some REAL promise!
Now you got ME thinking.................DAMNIT!

Thanks "dawg"! As usual, the pics don't completely capture what's actually there. The more I look at it the more I like it. I am pretty much sold on building it now.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

I really don't understand the trike idea for most guys. I've ridden motorcycles, and trikes always were and continue to be a utility bike for either toting stuff or when the rider can no longer handle a two wheeler. They aren't faster, they handle badly, (one exception is the T-Rex) and they are not as fun as either a bike or a sports car.

If a guy has arthritis, or an injury that keeps him off his two wheeler, the trike is a nice ride. Out in the wind, etc. But to take apart a perfectly good Fiero body to make a trike? Beam me up Scotty

Arn

Here's another one: http://www.cardomain.com/id/tcecnc

Less of a trike, more of a three-wheeled car, but similar theory.

Marty

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I really don't understand the trike idea for most guys. I've ridden motorcycles, and trikes always were and continue to be a utility bike for either toting stuff or when the rider can no longer handle a two wheeler. They aren't faster, they handle badly, (one exception is the T-Rex) and they are not as fun as either a bike or a sports car. If a guy has arthritis, or an injury that keeps him off his two wheeler, the trike is a nice ride. Out in the wind, etc. But to take apart a perfectly good Fiero body to make a trike? Beam me up Scotty Arn

Actually, I have always shared the same sentiments. I have been riding two-wheeled streetbikes since 1983, and minibikes and off road bikes before that. I love the ultimate freedom a conventional motorcycle offers. I am just always open to try new things, and love letting my creativity run rampant to see what the end result is. If I like it when I am done it will be a nice alternative to my cars, trucks, and motorcycles, when I just feel like doing something different. If not, I'll sell it to someone who can appreciate it and move on to the next creative journey. Maybe I'll make some physically impaired person's life a little more interesting. At the very least, I will have a lot of fun building it and seeing the final product, and another "I did that" story to tell.

No innocent Fieros are being harmed to make this film - er uh vehicle! The cradle and suspension parts are coming from a car that was eventually on its way to the crusher. I grabbed it solely for parts. The engine and transaxle came from a wrecked Cutlass. Just old parts that nobody wanted finding a new purpose in life.

I saw that other trike before, from poking around at 60degreev6.com. Pretty wild ride. I'll have to swap notes with him when I get going.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned something yet. The way I have it in the pic, the wheels are too close together for Fiero suspension. The Fiero track width is somewhere around 61". I have 43" hub-to-hub the way is is there. I haven't decided what I plan to do with that yet because having the fat tires tucked in close to the powertrain is a big part of the look I want. I like a challenge though...

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-13-2005).]

So I take it you definitely don't want a thing of beauty like this one huh ?

quote Originally posted by Poncho Jim: So I take it you definitely don't want a thing of beauty like this one huh ?

That poor Fiero

quote Originally posted by WingNut - MD: That poor Fiero

Look at it again. At least he.....uhhh......changed.....words escape me.
A fiero with four sets of brakes is barly adequate. No front brake

EDIT
Go for it toddshotrods ! I was thinking the same thing about no Fieros getting hurt.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-14-2005).]

A big thanks to those who offered encouraging words. I don't know how to judge this, with respect to interest to the Fiero community. 443 views and only 15 posts. I know that there are hundreds of lurkers on forums who don't always speak up, even when they like what they are seeing. On the other hand, I don't want to waste time and bandwidth with something that really doesn't interest the community.

I'm trying to decide whether to keep the discussion and process of this project alive on PFF, or just put it on my site and direct those who are truly interested there. It'll be on the site either way, but should it be discussed on PFF? If you think I am wasting PFF bandwidth you can say it, I don't get offended very easily. I understand that everything isn't for everybody.

What to do???

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

I say keep it on pff!

awesome idea

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: What to do???

Eh just build it and post pix.

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: What to do???

What happened to the Fiero the you were building ??

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still plays with cars..

It's here waiting...

On some new parts and technologies that are currently in the works. On the right connections to develop some of the parts it will require. On me to finish learning what I need to know and make some final decisions.

It'll be a while...

Projects like this (the trike) give me a creative outlet. They're relaxing, fun, and don't carry the live or die burden. I usually learn something that helps my supercar project too.

I'm working on another project in the shop and this little mocked up trike makes me every time I see it. I'm going to try to get that cradle out next week.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

I don't really like three wheelers... It could be fun, but I am more a car guy and not a bike guy, so I might be bias. Do what you want, you'll still get a + for effort

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Fiero 2MCUSTOM - 3.4 Pushrod swap in progress....

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: I'm surprised no one has mentioned something yet. The way I have it in the pic, the wheels are too close together for Fiero suspension. The Fiero track width is somewhere around 61". I have 43" hub-to-hub the way is is there. I haven't decided what I plan to do with that yet because having the fat tires tucked in close to the powertrain is a big part of the look I want. I like a challenge though...

Couldn't you shorten the axles, take about 6 inches out of each side? That should help a bit. Don't want to shift the engine over unless you set it up as a sidecar... http://www.rotohak.com/history.html with a hint of http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~mmc/page1/otani/sidecar/sidecar3.html

You really don't want 1000 replies repeating 'good idea'. Take the few that did post and multiply it by at least 50 and know there are hundreds more that enjoy your creativity.

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...You really don't want 1000 replies repeating 'good idea'. Take the few that did post and multiply it by at least 50 and know there are hundreds more that enjoy your creativity.

Good points and thanks (everyone) for the encouraging words...

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Couldn't you shorten the axles, take about 6 inches out of each side? That should help a bit. Don't want to shift the engine over unless you set it up as a sidecar......

The engine and transmission, as a unit, will be perfectly centered with equal length axles on each side. Pretty much where it is in the rear view pic is where it will be.

The first thing I need is a set of high positive offset 12-inch wide rims. My ideal rim would be a 19x12-inch with 10 inches of backspacing. Then I would have room for longer axles. The axles and lower control arms would still need to be shortened.

As it is in the pic I have 15X10-inch steel stock car wheels, with 4 inches of backspacing. I only have a little over ten inches from the wheel mounting surface to the transmission output shaft openings. The only way to run that would be as a hardtail with custom straight axles. I don't want a hardtail, so I need rims.

I am still going to have a challenge because the knuckles will be located too deep inside the rim for a strut type suspension. I am thinking about a C3 Corvette style rear suspension, where the axles serve double-duty as the upper control arms.

More to come...

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-16-2005).]

I started pulling the cradle today. Hopefully it'll be out tomorrow. Looking at the 3100/4T60E I think I may be able to narrow the cradle itself to bring the hub-to-hub width in closer to where I want it. Time will tell...

I decided that rather than mess around with Vette suspension I am just going to find a way to narrow the basic Fiero setup as much as possible and do what I have to with bodywork and rim spacing to get the look I want. I want to keep this as simple as possible. That's the point of the whole project - a simple, relatively easy, project that I can relax and enjoy while I hash out the details of my performance-oriented project. It's also supposed to be reasonable in cost, and the phrase "Vette suspension" was making too many cha-ching noises in my head.

I started on a 3D model of it to help me plan out the direction. Side view drawings weren't cutting it, and hand drawing a 3D view is silly when I can do it digitally. The wheels are purple because I need to go to bed. I don't plan to get carried away with this model. It is intended to be a scratch pad to help me figure some things out. I only plan to put serious detail in the stuff that has to be cut on a CNC mill.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

I'm still watching... looking forward to seeing something completely outside of the "normal" realm we usually see in build up threads here (not that your tube frame car isn't innovative or "different" either, but 3 wheels? that's hugely different!)

very interesting - northstar swap?

you'll have a hard time keeping the front on the ground i'd imagine -

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: I'm still watching... looking forward to seeing something completely outside of the "normal" realm we usually see in build up threads here (not that your tube frame car isn't innovative or "different" either, but 3 wheels? that's hugely different!)

You just nit the nail on the head MinnGreen. I am having more fun with this trike than any project I have dreamed up in the last ten years - because it is truly something different. Everyone here should know by now that I get off on being different. Every time I look at the mock up I smile like a little kid looking at the big box under the Christmas tree and can't wait to get my hands on it

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: very interesting - northstar swap?

Actually, I am thinking about that aluminum Bowtie block for an all-aluminum, high-rpm, 60* V6. Why? Different, lightweight, compact, etc. I can "see" the whole motor and trans in a brush finished natural aluminum look with a clear powder coat to keep it nice. Remember it's gonna be right out in the open, all the time. I have something really trick planned for the intake, and I want Ryan.Hess' TCM with two mini "paddles" for my left thumb. I have the microswitches. Just have to make the housing and mini paddles.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: you'll have a hard time keeping the front on the ground i'd imagine -

Sounds like fun

Cradle is out of the parts car, pics later today...

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

I meant to take some pics of the cradle by itself but I was anxious to see how it looked with the mock-up and forgot. Not really much to see just a comparison that shows the how much wider it is with the Fiero cradle. I am trying to mentally adjust to this wider stance, and see if I can work with it.

The right strut is still in place because I broke my socket trying to get one of the bolts out. I got a new socket (good ol Craftsman) and will remove the right strut tomorrow. I think I am going to fab upper control arms to replace the struts, because they're too high and bulky.

Do you like the extra crispy wide version or the original recipe?

Edited to add logo to pic
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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

I think the original recipe looks tighter and better.

The Pontiac commercials say wide is better so...

I've just been walking around it trying to get used to the wide thing. I kind of agree with Gokart that it looked nice when the wheels were tucked in, but I am trying to keep the cost down so that I can actually ride it in the not so distant future.

Out of a lack of sleep and plain old curiousity, I decide to see what it would look like with the stock car wheels on the wide track.

Interesting eh?

Edited to add better pic with logo
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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

I did a little more work on the solid model. I haven't had much time to do anything lately, but eventually I'll get some work done on it.

Edited to add logo to pic
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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

Very cool. Now you've got me thinking.

Thanks Chump - go for it!

I replaced the last pic (a few posts up) of the mock-up with a slightly clearer version, and I darkened and desaturated the background a little to make it easier to focus on the subject.

I have adjusted to the extra crispy wide version now, and I love it! That's the one I am building. It also saves me a LOT of work in trying to narrow the suspension. Now if I can just find some time to get some actual work done on it.

I think I am going to try to develop a pair of upper control arms. I was thinking that I can just mount them directly to one of the lower strut mounting holes with a pair of 5/8th-inch rod ends on each side (double shear). I want to keep the rear frame and suspension as low as possible (with the exception of the motor) to try to create as much of a hardtail type look as possible.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: The Pontiac commercials say wide is better so...

I liked the narrow version, but I think for the first try, it would be easer and quicker to go with the widetrack.
We will just call it a "Proof Of Concept" prototype!

What ever it takes so I can live through you, and get this project going and done!
And THEN I gonna need a "Test Flight"!

NOW STOP READING THIS AND GET TA' WRENCHIN'!

WRENCHIN' - I snipped the left side axle today - does that count?

"Test Flight" - no problem but you're gonna have to take a commercial flight first - ALASKA!!!! I don't like cold.

After I stared at it for a while, I actually started to like the wide version better. It's totally outrageous, and that suits my personality perfectly. A freakin trike that's as wide as a Lambo - I like

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 05-30-2005).]

Well the good news is I am definitely building it.

The bad news is I am not using the Fiero cradle Sorry guys. My dad was ready to junk his old Cavalier due to rust (good motor) and I found out that it would work much better.

Anyway, anyone who is still interested can follow it here

Edited to update the link

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toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-23-2005).]

Just an idea - If you're going to make it wide so that you don't have to mess with axles, suspension, and such, you should stretch the front out longer to compensate. Right now, its disproportionate, short and wide. Stretch it out a bit and I'll bet it'll look like a larger version of the mock up with the wheels pulled in close.

Just ditch the suspension in the back and make it on a big swing arm

quote Originally posted by Poncho Jim: So I take it you definitely don't want a thing of beauty like this one huh ?

they must have run that through the pod transporter on the movie " The Fly"