quote Originally posted by SappySE107: No point in arguing with idiots...just makes me look worse. Peace

You start a thread like this, And when it backfires on you, Everyone becomes a idiot ? Wtf did you think would happen when you started this stupid thread ?

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: I believe Tina has NO CLUE how much power her car has. So she broke an axle. My Z34 grenaded a Getrag 284, and it only has 218hp. She ran an 11.6. Well that is a good 1/4mi no doubt, 600hp has the power to weight to get into the 10s without a problem. Her Fiero has better traction characteristics (Something about a iron V8 sitting atop the rear wheels), than a 500hp Z06 Corvette, and the Corvette is faster. I believe all the evidence shows her Fiero isn't even making 500. And while my estimations are just a guess based upon her times, what are your guesses of 600 based on? If she is aloud to claim 600 with hers, then I claim 300 out of my Fiero. I ran a 16.1, so I could have 300hp easy right? Find my a dynosheet of a SBC in a Fiero making more than 455hp, then you can quote numbers that are true.

First, Tina ran the 11.59 and had trans problems.(then broke an axle) I do believe her engine was dyno'd over 500hp without the NOS. Her car should be able to get into the 10's. Just like FieroX's car. He also should be able to get into the 10's once he gets his trans problems fixed.
The problem with both cars isn't the HP of the engine, It's getting it to the ground.

Also the 2006 Z06 is slower at only 11.7 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=9017&page_number=3

So both Tina and FieroX (both with trans problems) were faster than the Z06.

Again, You are only taking part of the whole picture and using it out of context.

As for "YOUR Z34", Didn't you state in the other thread it was actually your Dad's car???

The cool thing about Tina's car is that it's a 5 speed and it's running that fast. Has Bryson taken his turbo quad-4 to the track at all? That would be interesting to see what a 396 whp turbo 4 cylinder runs.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: If she is aloud to claim 600 with hers, then I claim 300 out of my Fiero. I ran a 16.1, so I could have 300hp easy right? Find my a dynosheet of a SBC in a Fiero making more than 455hp, then you can quote numbers that are true.

There ya go

So we have a LS1 thats spraying putting 508 to the wheels.

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HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

This one is for earl, since he is a little behind the curve on "reading comprehension". How appropriate since that has been the theme since the penis ruler came out. Perhaps its what earl was wanting for himself since he still hasn't contributed anything worthwhile on this thread...and probably on this whole site.

Lets revisit my first post.

""Typically the turbo or SCharged 4's make their numbers at high RPM's & that's fine if you drive at 160 mph all the time. But us Hot Rodders want to from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8."

That is what archie said. All I wanted to know is why you would make such an ignorant statement. 160 mph? 0-100 takes a V8 to be the fastest possible? Explain please, cause I can't make a bit of sense out of your statement. Could have just replied in your other thread with your reasoning but you told me to make this thread so here it is. I hope you have the courtesy of replying since I followed your request.
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So earl of douchebags, tell me what backfired? Ill tell you what backfired. Asking archie a simple question backfired because idiots like you keep ****in up my thread. So, unless archie has a head enema, I don't expect this to go anywhere useful.

It's amazing how you can still be a 'ricer' with 2-4 extra cylinders..

quote Originally posted by SappySE107: All I wanted to know is why you would make such an ignorant statement. 160 mph? 0-100 takes a V8 to be the fastest possible? Explain please, cause I can't make a bit of sense out of your statement.

As it has been stated before, look up the word exaggeration in the dictionary and see what personal opinion is on Ask Jeeves and write a 100 word essay and post it here.

Where's that pic of the dead horse getting whipped?

Aww, Sappy got banned. Darn.

Play nice and you'll get invited back. Act rude or inconsiderate and you will be told to leave.

Yes, I have children.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: First, Tina ran the 11.59 and had trans problems.(then broke an axle) I do believe her engine was dyno'd over 500hp without the NOS. Her car should be able to get into the 10's. Just like FieroX's car. He also should be able to get into the 10's once he gets his trans problems fixed. The problem with both cars isn't the HP of the engine, It's getting it to the ground. Also the 2006 Z06 is slower at only 11.7 seconds in the 1/4 mile. http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=9017&page_number=3 So both Tina and FieroX (both with trans problems) were faster than the Z06. Again, You are only taking part of the whole picture and using it out of context. As for "YOUR Z34", Didn't you state in the other thread it was actually your Dad's car???

Her engine wasn't dynoed. Period. You believe wrong. Until I see a dyno sheet, it wasn't. And considering she hasn't posted one...You also cannot just drop the times because she claims she had tranny problems. She ran a 11.59, no faster. I launched my car 200rpm higher, that means I can take off 2 tenths right? No that isn't how it works.

I use Motor Trend for all of my 1/4mi times because they correct to standard sea level, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions. Their Z06 ran a 11.5 @ 127.1. So Tina's car was slower than this Z06. And the Z06 picked up over 16mph whilst being only 9 tenths faster. Definately has a power advantage.

Learn what you spek of before you speak of it. I had a Z34 before my Fiero, and that was the car I was quoting. My Dad's Z34, the one I drive everyday, is all stock.

[This message has been edited by AaronZ34 (edited 12-31-2005).]

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: I guess we do have a, read A, V8 putting out more than the Q4. But take HP per liter into account, and the Q4 dominates at 172.2hp/l compared to the LS1's 89.1.

I wonder how much those hp per cubic inches ( read as hp per liter how ever you like to say it) would change if the LS motor was boosted .....you know like the Q-4 is boosted ?

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HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I wonder how much those hp per cubic inches ( read as hp per liter how ever you like to say it) would change if the LS motor was boosted .....you know like the Q-4 is boosted ?

It would of course go up, but how much I'm not sure. The LSX guy could no longer (Well wouldn't want to) spray his nitrous.

There are LSX engines near and above 900hp, and there always will be. It has a lot of displacement, and the largest aftermarket of any internal combustion engine ever built.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Her engine wasn't dynoed. Period. I launched my car 200rpm higher, that means I can take off 2 tenths right? No that isn't how it works.

My mistake, I looked thru the archives and she stated that her car "should have over 400hp" and that her track times will prove it and her track times do prove it.

What??? Launch RPM has no direct connection to do with 1/4 mile times. Where are you getting this from??? It wasn't part of any previous post.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: I use Motor Trend for all of my 1/4mi times because they correct to standard sea level, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions. Their Z06 ran a 11.5 @ 127.1. So Tina's car was slower than this Z06. And the Z06 picked up over 16mph whilst being only 9 tenths faster. Definately has a power advantage.

Oh, So the Motor Trend 1/4 mile times they publish are Corrected times. (that doesn't sound very realistic, more of a marketing thing.)
Well lets just test this. My car did 12.387 @109.8, Using a correction calculator in Desktop Drag 2000 and changing just the elevation from Chicago to sea level (sorry I don't know the humidity or barametric pressure of when I ran my car so I left them as the default and just changed elevation.) It runs a calculated 11.750 seconds. Tina's car ran at a track in Minnesota. (Don't know the exact elevation at the track she raced at so I used Minniapolis.) But just using general numbers, Her car has a corrected factor of 10.912 at sea level. Which now means Tina's car was slower ONLY because of the place she ran her car and the times were not "corrected".

Maybe I should now tell everyone my car can run "Corrected 11's" .

Maybe we should have Soulcrusher have everyone post the elevation, humidity and atmosheric conditions of the track so that we can run a correction factor on everyones times so that all the times are equal in the 1/4 mile thread? That would already put Don Kraus in the 10 second range with a 3800SC engine as well. I'm also sure many who have a slightly modifed 2.8L would like to brag of a few tenths better "corrected" times as well.

Point is, using corrected times against a absolute time is not really fair as the "corrected" times is a "calculated guess". That is about as accurate as the numerous 1/4 mile calculators on the internet. It's nothing but "bench racing", you know the same thing you harp on people about with in reference to how much horsepower they have without a real dyno run or how fast their car is without an actual time slip.

Why don't you post an actual time of a stock Z06 that has run down the 1/4 mile?

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Learn what you spek of before you speak of it. I had a Z34 before my Fiero, and that was the car I was quoting. My Dad's Z34, the one I drive everyday, is all stock.

I'm just going by what you previously posted. Is it my fault you can't keep your own stories straight?

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 12-31-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: My mistake, ...

None made, Oreif
I dyno pretty much all my engines.
Including the last one.

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: I believe Tina has NO CLUE how much power her car has. ... Her engine wasn't dynoed. Period. You believe wrong. Until I see a dyno sheet, it wasn't.

Hang on ... in my book on who's opinion and beliefs I give a crap about, your not coming up.

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quote Originally posted by Oreif: Hey look at this: Honda S2000 1/4 mile times: Motor Week = 14.9 seconds Car and Driver = 14.9 Seconds (Car and Driver also lists the 1990 Camaro IROC-Z as 14.4 ) Automobile Magazine = 14.88 seconds Motor Trend 14.2 seconds. Using the elevation of Detriot Michigan and the time of 14.88 and correcting the time for sea level it comes out to be 14.242. So even the previous argument between the IROC and the S2000 is not valid as the M/T times are "Corrected Guesses."

Isn't Motor Trend on Wilshire Blvd in Los Angeles? Motor Trend's time probably isn't corrected; probably just ran their car near sea level down here...

Alright. Does everybody here truly and honestly believe they have the capability to evaluate EVERY engine type fairly, scientifially, and without bias? Probably not. If not, good day ladies and gentlemen - I won't argue here for the risk of bruising egos because I rasied a question about your powertrain of choice. You're welcome to question mine, as I don't take offense to such things, I look forward to a good technical discussion. For the rest of you who look at all engine technologies, it's clear to see that ANY engine can be made to go fast. Some require major re-engineering (lost cause), and some can be hopped up nearly stock to make big numbers if they don't already.

1.) At the same VE, an engine with larger displacement makes more power/torque than a smaller displacement engine. Usually sooner. There ya go, Archie. Cept the V8 doesn't have the same VE stock for stock as an Ecotec, though it can be made to.

2.) VE and flow allowing, an engine that can rev higher makes more power ourput per cube than an engine that can't rev higher.

3.) Boost radically modifies VE. An engine that already flows well will make incredible gains on forced induction.

4.) Engine reliability is effected by RPMs and boost, though factory built engines are purpose built with this in mind. Plenty of old factory V8's will expire under medium duty use long before a well designed, hard working turbo 4 cylinder does. It happens the other way around, too obviously. If parts are available, any engine can be built nearly bulletproof. Getting one from the factory that way is a nice cost advantage.

5.) New technology allows for far greater efficiency in specific power output, fuel efficiency, reliability, and streetability of modern engines, from small displacement to large.

What does it all mean? You can take a 4 banger, a V6, and a V8 and make any of them fast, with the correct gearing, parts, and induction/exhaust. More cylinders and cubes doesn't nessicarily mean more power. If you're burning the same mass of fuel and air per hour in a 4 cylinder and a 8 cylinder, you're going to make the same amount of power plus/minus factors like engine drag, combustion chamber effficiency, rod to stroke ratio, etc. It comes down to longevity - but now the new tech engine designs are so sturdy, it's almost a moot point nowdays.

Thank God for GM making some of the last, finest OHV V8's out there, but I'm equally thankful to see decent small displacement engines coming out finally to compete with the modern world. What you choose to go fast in is purely and entirely your choice.

here here.

quote Originally posted by Tina: Hang on ... in my book on who's opinion and beliefs I give a crap about, your not coming up.

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"All anybody wants is a normal life and a cool car. Most people settle for the car." -Christopher Titus

quote Originally posted by Tina: Hang on ... in my book on who's opinion and beliefs I give a crap about, your not coming up.

Own3d!
In 20 words or less.

quote Originally posted by Tina: Hang on ... in my book on who's opinion and beliefs I give a crap about, your not coming up.

LOL Looks like Tina is the only one that can get that kid to STFU.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: LOL Looks like Tina is the only one that can get that kid to STFU. Archie

How come women are always better at that? We should learn from them lol

Well when you cannot argue on a technical or factual basis, why not just personally insult the person?

Works for you doesn't it cletus?

quote Originally posted by AaronZ34: Well when you cannot argue on a technical or factual basis, why not just personally insult the person? Works for you doesn't it cletus?

I'm sorry, she didn't personally insult you, She just told you she didn't give a damn what your opinion was.

Now if I said that I personally think you're a dick a jerk & a punk, THAT would be a personal insult.

Archie

no opinions will be offered in this post - only facts

factory optioned stage3 srt-4 dyno - at the wheels

and a Z06 dyno

keep in mind that after 1st gear anything below your shift point doesn't even factor in - and then note the fact that the graphs are almost the same from 4000-redline

having lower torque down low is merely a function of boost - vs NA --- this has nothing to do with the velocity of the car - only RPM... an RPM that you'll only be at during a soft start on the street.. (and we all know none of you race on the street so we must be talking about legal racing performance here)

weight, gearing, and area under the curve are what determine acceleration - not v8 or 4cyl, NA or FI - these rediculous comparisons always come up because people want to feel that the engien they chose is the best option.. well who cares? pick an engine because you personally enjoy it.. if you are always worried about being the best then you'll be disapointed because there is always someone faster.

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: no opinions will be offered in this post - only facts factory optioned stage3 srt-4 dyno - at the wheels and a Z06 dyno keep in mind that after 1st gear anything below your shift point doesn't even factor in - and then note the fact that the graphs are almost the same from 4000-redline having lower torque down low is merely a function of boost - vs NA --- this has nothing to do with the velocity of the car - only RPM... an RPM that you'll only be at during a soft start on the street.. (and we all know none of you race on the street so we must be talking about legal racing performance here) weight, gearing, and area under the curve are what determine acceleration - not v8 or 4cyl, NA or FI - these rediculous comparisons always come up because people want to feel that the engien they chose is the best option.. well who cares? pick an engine because you personally enjoy it.. if you are always worried about being the best then you'll be disapointed because there is always someone faster.

just out of curiousity: why would you pick a highly modded boosted 4cyl to compare dynos with a stock NA V8? It hardly seems as if you are comparing apples to apples. I personally don't find it that impressive that a Stage 3 four cylinder puts up similar numbers to a stock NA V8.

But your last statement is very very very true I could really care less how many cylinders the engine has as long as it performs the way that I want it to.

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 01-04-2006).]

Here is my $.02,

Ok folks, I don't come around here much since selling the v/8 Fiero but when I do I see some things never change. I think some of you just post to start fights. Leave Archie alone, he does a good job for a great sport. It's all about the cars and meeting nice people. I have met some really nice people from the Fiero world and also a couple that I will never call a friend. This is all about the sport and I can't even believe I'm taking the time to jump into this. You all know I have switched over to the dark side. I have two Subaru's now and I sold my big block Dodge last week. My cars are not as fast as a v/8 but come play in the snow and I will teach you a lesson about turbo cars and AWD. Funny thing about these posts attacking Archie and anyone else is you guys need to grow up. Take it for what it's worth, it's a sport. Have you done anything positive for the sport other then whine??? Archie has. I owe no alliance to Archie, I bought one of his kits to help me build my old car. Archie already made the kit which made it easier for me to enjoy a SPORT. Grow up! Jeezs, I'm now on a few Subaru boards and I'm old enough to be most of the guys Dads. This is one of the only forums where I see people attack other people for something they said. Take it somewhere else. It doesn't belong here. If your not old enough to play with others then go on over to the Fisher Price website and start something with someone who said they got a square ped in a round hole without a hammer. This is a great forum with lots of knowledge and a lot of nice people. Use it like it's supposed to be use, not to start things like this.

Oh and I have even bought Subaru parts from a couple guys off this website. I will shut up now and go play with my turbo upgrade to my little 4 cylinder. See ya on a snow covered road somewhere.

Oh and here are a couple links to pass the time while you think of some come back for me. It's all about the money. Spend the bucks and you can go fast. lol

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/gallery/image_viewer.cgi?sectionID=54

http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/diemanmotorsports/skyline-gtr-1100.wmv

Oh and HI folks, nice to see some things never change.....

quote Originally posted by jeremy: just out of curiousity: why would you pick a highly modded boosted 4cyl to compare dynos with a stock NA V8? It hardly seems as if you are comparing apples to apples. I personally don't find it that impressive that a Stage 3 four cylinder puts up similar numbers to a stock NA V8. But your last statement is very very very true

I compared a factory option for a 4cyl that retains its warrenty (not aftermarket because then the sky is the limit) to the top of the line v8

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: I compared a factory option for a 4cyl that retains its warrenty (not aftermarket because then the sky is the limit) to the top of the line v8

UGH promised myself I was gonna stay away from this thread... ugh, but to back up my previous statement, its not all about who's car is a tenth faster to the finish line, its about looking good when you get there, hmmm, Z06 vette 6spd, or Ghey neon... hmmm
Just remember

Not tryin to start nothing with ya Kohburn, you just happened to be the last post. Anyway, im off hopefuly for good, happy fueding 'yaallll

LOL, that didnt take long for a reply. I was looking at Fiero's for sale and just looked back and here it is.
I wasn't comparing a modded 4 to anything. I said here is something to watch while you think of replys. Want me to post some modded v/8's too? I can if that makes you feel better. It's all about the sport and the money.

You folks have fun. I'm outta here.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Not tryin to start nothing with ya Kohburn, you just happened to be the last post. Anyway, im off hopefuly for good, happy fueding 'yaallll

not sure what that has to do with me. never said which i'd rather drive - only provided information for a proper comparison between V8's and boosted 4cyls since thats what the whole thread sprouted from - I could have compared a stock srt4 to a stock 4.9, thats a v8 right?

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: only provided information for a proper comparison between V8's and boosted 4cyls since thats what the whole thread sprouted from - I could have compared a stock srt4 to a stock 4.9, thats a v8 right?

All stage 3 boosted 4cyl compared to a stock v8 is hardly a "proper comparison".........and how is comparing a stock V8 (4.9) from 10-15years ago to a stock SRT-4 a "proper comparison" either? To properly compare apples to apples wouldn't you need to compare a SRT-4 or any other 4cyl of your choice to an engine that was produced at the same time?

I really don't care either way as to which engines people want in their Fiero, I personally would love a HO Quad because I do like the higher revs. I just don't understand why people can't seem to step back and actually compare apples to apples instead of just searching for a comparison to fit their agenda.

-J

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by jeremy: All stage 3 boosted 4cyl compared to a stock v8 is hardly a "proper comparison"........ I just don't understand why people can't seem to step back and actually compare apples to apples instead of just searching for a comparison to fit their agenda. .-J

because the origin of the question was the comparison of a boosted 4cyl to a v8 - thats why -

agenda? and what is my agenda?

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: because the origin of the question was the comparison of a boosted 4cyl to a v8 - thats why - WTF agenda? and what is my agenda? do you know? you seem to think you do - - and what do you think IS apples to apples? hmm?

Please don't take it so personally, I was talking about you specifically when I mentioned "agenda". So I do apologize that you took my comments as an insult to you. It was just an overall observation of this thread.

With respect to this thread, I told you what I thought apples to apples would be: any stock boosted 4cyl compared to any stock V8 from the same production year. I haven't looked for specifics because I could care less

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by jeremy: With respect to this thread, I told you what I thought apples to apples would be: any stock boosted 4cyl compared to any stock V8 from the same production year. I haven't looked for specifics because I could care less

well since you can buy stage3 from the dealer is is considered stock - just not the base model - thats why I used it in the comparison - I could have compared it to a bottom line V8 if i had an agenda ,maybe i should have compared it to a stock boosted v8 like the mustage..

here is an '03 cobra dyno

boost vs boost - both factory options

power curves still not dissimilar

If i had an agenda i could have used a pathetic v8 like this one

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-04-2006).]

V8's Rule

4's Drool...

6's are OK...

honda's are ghey...

Lookie there, I'm a poet

quote If i had an agenda i could have used a pathetic v8 like this one

yes you could have....or if you had an agenda and it was the other way, you could compare that stock stage 3 neon or any other high HP stock 4 banger to the stock Mercedes SLR V8 which is 617hp and 575lb-ft tq .......the bottom line is that you can make the comparison look anyway you want it to look...

....and this discussion really is childish in every way....I am just happy to see that Fiero owners show enough love for their cars to actually do some swaps, I could care less if they chose the Quad or the LS1, or the N*, or the LQ1.....

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 01-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by jeremy: yes you could have....or if you had an agenda and it was the other way, you could compare that stock stage 3 neon or any other high HP stock 4 banger to the stock Mercedes SLR V8 which is 617hp and 575lb-ft tq .......the bottom line is that you can make the comparison look anyway you want it to look... ....and this discussion really is childish in every way....I am just happy to see that Fiero owners show enough love for their cars to actually do some swaps, I could care less if they chose the Quad or the LS1, or the N*, or the LQ1.....

it was never about how much power could be made - it was about the power curve and relating the number of cylinders with what speed the car makes power - which is rediculous because # of cyls does not matter -

only displacement/VE/intakepressure/rpm --

only reason i posted in this stupid thread was because i hate the dissemination of false information - propoganda

BOOBS!

quote Originally posted by DOHC_SWAPPER: BOOBS!