As with most of my projects, this is a project of opportunity. it's something I've had in the back of my mind for a couple years now, but when I saw a friend of mine toss a pile of "scrap" steel out for the recycler to pick up, I knew this projects time had arrived. in the pile were four 5 foot sections and one 8 foot section of galvanized 2X3 stock and a dozen or so random length (10'+) pieces of 1 1/4" galvanized round stock (square would be better but hey... it was free). A year or so ago the same guy (he builds street rods) gave me a set of wheel hubs of unknown origin (Chevette?) that have a 5x100 bolt pattern. Fiero body panels and other various bits are already abundant in my "collection". So,......... by throwing all this in a pot and stirring (a saws-all works well) over a moderate heat (my Millermatic 175 should be adequate).... well, we'll see what I can cook up

Here we go. Spent a lot of time trimming the front and rear of the chassis to get these pieces:

(The fact that it was cold, and raining cats and dogs in my "parts department" didn't help matters.)

by utilizing the fiero sheet metal, the attachment of the body panels will be easier, hood hinge and latch solutions are built in, and support for the flexible front and rear facias is vastly simplified. not to mention that by not using the whole front clip as others have, the actual cargo carrying capacity should be much improved.

For the frame, the shop floor and a carpenters square is all that's required to lay it out as it's welded up (hey... it's just a trailer).

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-01-2006).]

Its about time someone built another one of these! I have about 4000 miles on mine it attracks a lot of non-fiero attention wherever it goes. Ftom your other threads, it is obvious you are a creative and resourceful person, and I look forward to see how you will build your trailer.

What kind of panels are you going to be using (GT, Aero coupe, bumper pad, or 87-88 coupe)?

Here is mine with its tow vehicle:

Here is the build thread:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/057971.html

Ah HA. yes, I remember seeing that thread now, and wiondered how it came out. That looks really sharp. I'll have to read the whole thread when I get a chance.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: What kind of panels are you going to be using (GT, Aero coupe, bumper pad, or 87-88 coupe)?

Well, as this is kind of a "junkyard dog" project, I'm using what I had laying around which is the 88 rear facia and fenders left over from my IMSA project. the front facia and sheetmetal were donated from an 85 parts car I bought from Aaron (Electrithon). I wish I hadn't sold the front 88 facia, but a local gal needed it and I got weak . actually I kind of like the idea of using the coupe parts, as most people don't really know exactly what a "stock" Fiero looked like so when I'm at shows with the IMSA the trailer will be there for comparisons.
I expect to have the frame attached to the body panels by later today so......

Cheerio,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-05-2006).]

Just my opinion, but I think if it has a tube frame it isn't a fiero anymore.

quote Originally posted by gusshotrod: Just my opinion, but I think if it has a tube frame it isn't a fiero anymore.

Ya........... I guess you're right Guss. I hadn't thought of it that way.

CLIFF. please change the subject of Guss' build thread to: "Building a tube frame Studebaker". TIA.

Glad I could help out

[mumble, mumble] dang Northerners

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-01-2006).]

quote Originally posted by gusshotrod: Just my opinion, but I think if it has a tube frame it isn't a fiero anymore.

Russ - just keep building away. I hear the same comments about my tube frame Fiero all the time. Your skin will get thicker over time.

------------------

Well.... I did ok today but didn't accomplish as much as I'd hoped to. you can see the weld near the front corners of the upper frame where I cut three sides of the box section on both sides of the car in order to pull the rear ends of the frame in about 3 1/2". this was required in order to match the width of the rear clip. the support for the front was also pretty straightforward. just a couple pieces of 2x3 tube inserted into the old frame stubs and notched for the lower frame rail and all welded into place. the rear was a bit harder to line up as good reference points are nonexistent. eventually that was accomplished to my satisfaction however, and with the fenders and rear clip hung on the upper frame for alignment, the front and rear upper rails were joined with a temporary patch. now that the bodywork is off again I can fab some permanent structure to tie the two halves together. After that, a few more tubes will go in to firm up the structure and provide support for wheel tubs and inner sheetmetal.

This is really easy. I don't know what took Guss so long to build his frame
Guss. pm returned about the hinges.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-01-2006).]

that bumper sticker KICKS A$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sweet build, good luck.

quote Originally posted by Russ544: the front facia and sheetmetal were donated from an 85 parts car I bought from Aaron (Electrithon).

LOL, I saw the black car coming apart and was thinking that sure looked like my old car. It is sort of funny, one of this things I had threatened to do with that car was to make a trailer out of it, but did not need any other projects.

quote Originally posted by Electrathon: LOL, I saw the black car coming apart and was thinking that sure looked like my old car. It is sort of funny, one of this things I had threatened to do with that car was to make a trailer out of it, but did not need any other projects.

Yup. the trany and axles are behind the N*, the interior is in my SBC car, most of the clutch parts went to the 4.3 project, vertually all of the wireing was donated for various projects, Guss wants some parts off of it....... it's certainly giving it's all for the cause .
Hey you don't happen to have an 87-88 front facia laying around do you? just a thought.

is it going to be a wide body trailer?

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 01-02-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Hey you don't happen to have an 87-88 front facia laying around do you? just a thought.

I already brought you a facia! LOL No, at this time I am out of them. Are you looking for an aero or a coupe style? I think there is one in the u-pull-it yard for a coupe.

quote Originally posted by Electrathon: I already brought you a facia! LOL No, at this time I am out of them. Are you looking for an aero or a coupe style? I think there is one in the u-pull-it yard for a coupe.

There's a facia quota now??? Honest, I never got the memo That aero facia I got from you was cut up for the IMSA airdam and deflector, but no, actually I was thinking of an 87-88 coupe style anyway. I don't need anything but the facia itself. no support or eggcrate needed. minor damage ok. how much?? shoot me a pm. It's about time you came down for a visit with your dad again anyway

Fierowannabe. no this won't be a widebody this time. sorry

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-02-2006).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Its about time someone built another one of these! I have about 4000 miles on mine it attracks a lot of non-fiero attention wherever it goes. Ftom your other threads, it is obvious you are a creative and resourceful person, and I look forward to see how you will build your trailer.

Fieroguru,
I just finished reading your build thread: "CAD"?, "Frame jig"? Man you went all out on that thing. no wonder it looks so good. My junk yard dog won't be nearly that nice (but it won't cost me over ~ a hundred bucks to build either ). anyway..... nice job !

Russ

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Fieroguru, I just finished reading your build thread: "CAD"?, "Frame jig"? Man you went all out on that thing. no wonder it looks so good. My junk yard dog won't be nearly that nice (but it won't cost me over ~ a hundred bucks to build either ). anyway..... nice job ! Russ

Thanks! CAD is part of a past life and I have it at home and I like to use it to "check things". The sad part is yours might actually be "finished" (if that is a word) before mine! Too many other projects going... but you know how that is!

The frame jig was actually built specifically for future Chop Top and Roadster projects on 88 cars and just happened to "be there" for the trailer. Eventually the jig will lock down the chassis at all 4 rear cradle mounts and 4 of the front subframe bolts (front 2 and rear 2)...

I think you are doing a great jog so far on your trailer. Have any more progress pictures?

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-04-2006).]

One progress picture coming up

It was painfull, but I had to spend real money on the trailer project today. I now have almost $30.oo invested in it after buying a set of springs. these are 600 lb but the next lightest was 300 which I figured would be too soft. I may have to remove a leaf or install a spacer in betweeen the leaves so the short leaf will act as an overload and still be soft when running empty. The spring perches were buried as deep as possible into the frame in an effort to retain a low ground clearance, and the axle will be mounted inside the spring as well. I had to actually work some today, so this is all I got done on the trailer. I'll try and do better tomorrow

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-06-2006).]

WORK! It is January, who needs thier lawn mower fixed!

I am going to try getting to the yard, this weekend. I'll have to see what comes up.

I am disapointed in you, BUYING parts! A set of Golf car springs should have fit in there perfectly, about the proper rate too.

Idea, if you spin a set of spindles in a lathe so that they just fit into a piece of 2" heavy wall tubing you will have an axle that still uses the proper hubs and wheels.

Russ,

You may think that Fieroguru went all out with the frame jig and all but after meeting him I could see him using the same roll over device as you. LOL

I also thought that I would build a trailer and actually started to work on it by cutting an old fiero that was destined to the junkyard in half and throwing out everything from the firewall forward. Then I met Fieroguru and realised that I had made a mistake and actually threw away half of what I needed. Now your at it showing me just how simple it is to do it the way I should have from the start. Obviously the two of you are alot alike but I must be missing something in the ability to look at an old rusty shell of a car and see how it can be cut apart and put back together without reinventing the wheel.

Thank you for sharing. I am sure that I will look forward to the updates just as I did with your IMSA build.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Jefrysuko (edited 01-06-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Electrathon: WORK! It is January, who needs thier lawn mower fixed! I am going to try getting to the yard, this weekend. I'll have to see what comes up. I am disapointed in you, BUYING parts! A set of Golf car springs should have fit in there perfectly, about the proper rate too. Idea, if you spin a set of spindles in a lathe so that they just fit into a piece of 2" heavy wall tubing you will have an axle that still uses the proper hubs and wheels.

I closed the shop down for two weeks over the holidays so lots of the commercial guys had equipment in need of repair. also the floods have put trees in places where they shouldn't be so the saw business has been brisk as well.

you didn't really think that I wouldn't have a plan for the spindles did you? I expect to be working on that tomorrow or Sunday.

thanks,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-06-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I find it vitally important to "see" the portrate before I paint it. once you see it in your mind it's a simple matter to fill in the spaces with the proper colors as if it were a paint by number set. it may not seem the same, but believe me the process is identical weather working with water colors or working with steel. try it... you'll like it

Russ,

I can do this too, see the finished product in my mind without drawings or scetches. I did not realize till just a few years ago that some people just can't do it. It is sort of like dancing, some people have rythom and just can't understand why others can't flow with the music. You have a gift. Part of why your work comes out so well.

A reasonably good amount of progress was made today. fabrication of the spindles and axle is a rather tedious process as the tolerances and alignment of the various components needs to be much more precise than in other areas. I'm not sure what car the bearing hubs came from as they were donated to me, but they are a 5x100 bolt pattern, so the axle was built around them. I set up the alignment at the bearing hub flanges to give 1/4" toe in and 0* camber. I'll arch the axle to give it a few degrees of camber, but it was just easier to initially build it at 0* .

jumping on the frame gives a couple inches of travel on each side, so the 600 lb (per pair) spring rating looks like it should work out fine.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-07-2006).]

Looking good! I like the idea of building the axle vs. using a trailer axle. If I ever do another trailer, it won't be a trailer axle and will keep the 5x100 pattern.

Keep up the good work!

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Looking good! I like the idea of building the axle vs. using a trailer axle. If I ever do another trailer, it won't be a trailer axle and will keep the 5x100 pattern. Keep up the good work!

As Aaron sugested earlier, a guy could just cut off a front spindle and turn down the end to fit in a piece of .120 wall tubing to form an axle. I chose to do it this, more complicated, way because I had these hubs in-hand.
Couldn't you just re-drill your trailer axle hub for the 5x100 pattern though?

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Couldn't you just re-drill your trailer axle hub for the 5x100 pattern though?

Not if you plan to use an OEM Fiero wheel.

Issues:
#1 The inside diameter of a stock Fiero wheel is too small for the trailer hub to fit inside (lugs removed) and there is not sufficient material to allow turning the outside diameter of the hub down so it will fit inside the Fiero wheel. The outboard bearing on the trailer hub is much larger then that on the fiero and this drives the extra hub thickness.
#2 The distance from the face of the hub to the base of the dust cap on the trailer hubs is also too long for the Fiero wheels (and most FWD wheels). For it to fit, the dust cover must pass through the wheel and stick out the other side. If you can overcome #1 a 1/2 to 3/4" spacer will get you past #2.

To get a "matching" set of wheels for my trailer, I purchased the 5 x 4.5" version of my after market wheels. Most after market wheels are setup with a larger inner hole and a concentric ring to reduce it down if needed. The hub outside diameter was no longer an issue.

To fix the length issue, I turned the face of the hub (and dust cover) down at the dust cover lip - there was nearly 3/8" of a lip, and now there is about 1/8". Now the wheel would fit without the dust cover installed, but not when the dust cover was on. The outside diameter of the dust cover was larger then the center cap lip in the wheel by about 1/8". I filed down the lip to allow the dust cover to past through to the other side of the wheel. When the wheel is fully seated on the hub the lip of the dust cover is pushed against the backside of the wheel and held snugly in place so it can not fall off. In this picture you can see the dust cover sticking out the wheel about 1/4"

If you want to run stock Fiero wheels, I don't recommend using the trailer hubs. Even if you are not using a stock Fiero wheel, there will be additional work involved in making the hubs work.

Note: the stock honeycomb 92ish Grand Prix wheels with 5 x 115 pattern will bolt up directly to the trailer without issue (just need to pop out the center cap). But, remember these are deeper due to the "Wide Track" theme and accommodate the extra length quite well.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-08-2006).]

Russ,

Went to the yard today, no 87 style facia to be found.

Thread hyjack: I did find a set of rear tube control arms though. You said where yours came from but I don't remember where. I am figuring that there were not to many manyfactures of rear control arms. I think it was a cool find.

Trailer is looking cool.

Aaron

No problem on the facia. the one from your old 85 will work fine actually, but thanks for looking.
Send me a pic of the A arms and I'll see if I can recognize them. The ones on my sbc car are Held units (anti bump stear kit).

Todays projects were more relaxed than yesterdays. I spent some time playing with some ideas on the wheel tubs, fabricated some steel tabs which were then welded on the rear lower edge of the frame to support to bottom of the rear facia, removed the axle assy and did some finish metal work on it, and then grafted the fenders to what remains of the rear clip, as you can see I left a portion of the substructure when the rest of the rear clip was hacked off so-as to have some support when the fender was grafted on. it worked out really well and should be a very strong joint. there's also a patch, made from a chunk of an old fender, under the skin at the joint. all this was bonded together with 3M 8227 adhesive.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-10-2006).]

It looks like the rear section and the front fender shapes are very close at the transition and the hood edge line will be from front to back with a single line. That is not the case on the GT panels and required some work to get the same general hood edge line.

Looking good!

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: It looks like the rear section and the front fender shapes are very close at the transition and the hood edge line will be from front to back with a single line. That is not the case on the GT panels and required some work to get the same general hood edge line. Looking good!

Ya. it lines up pretty well all things concidered. the top is very good front to back. side to side the angles are a bit different from one another but should grind out without going through either panel. I didn't like the cut of the rear clip wheel opening so I'll be using the piece that was originally cut off the front fender. it had to be cut off in order to realign the trim area. from the trim down everything is also pretty good as is. I expect to attach the missing section (in the pic) by bonding it to the rear facia only, so all the "skin" can be disassembled in the future if needed.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-09-2006).]

So how much of a drop did you build into your axle? Mine had 4" but more would be better.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: So how much of a drop did you build into your axle? Mine had 4" but more would be better.

8" wheel center to axle center. this gives me about 3" ground clearance under the axle and less at the springs............ but it sits nice .

I've actually gotten a lot done over the past couple of days, but it's hard to appreciate in these pictures. lots of time was spent making templates and then the finished (4) steel patch panels which were then welded in under the front frame stubs to seal off that area. extensions were made and welded on the front frame rail to support the back of an aluminum tray which bolts in where the "grill" used to be, and then angle iron braces were added to triangulate the tong. 1/2" square tubing was bent up to make a frame for the wheel tubs. I'm using a portion of the plastic Fiero tubs with 4" wide strips of .049 aluminum added on.

I see a pneumatic pop rivet tool in my future.............. there are 70 stainless steel rivets in these two wheel tubs alone .

The front corners will remain un-sheeted inside but I do have the templates already made to create some filler panels for the rear and rear corners of the cargo area behind the wheel tubs. those will be .049 aluminum also.
yesterday I picked up a sheet of 1/2" CCD plywood to make the floor with so if all goes well tomorrow I may get that cut out and installed as well.

It was a long day, but "mission accomplished". I set out this morning to fabricate the rear 1/4 tin, weld in some support structure for it and get it all installed. after that I did the same with the rear tin. the floor panels gave my tape measure a thorough workout, as working with wood is pretty much a one shot deal. get it right or start over. I got it right......... now I need beer

The major portion of the frame fabrication is done now, so I've been cleaning it up and applying the various coatings. things like the axle assy and most of the exposed tin in the front are painted. the underside was sprayed with undercoating wile the inside got a layer of truck bed liner coating.

This is the first time I've applied the bed liner material, so it's worthy to note that this is bad nasty stuff. I will certainly never again apply it in the winter months where it's too cold to apply outside. the fumes are extremely strong, and even with some degree of ventilation it gave me a buzz like I haven't gotten since the 60s.... only this time I didn't like it

I have a small project I want to get done on the IMSA tomorrow, but I may get time to start on the trailers hood also. weather or not it happens tomorrow, I expect that to be the biggest challenge of this whole trailer project.... and I'm looking forward to it

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-21-2006).]

nice progress

Looking good! I really like the flat floor! How far below the center of the rear sheet metal decklid latch area? Any idea how much storage space you will have? I have 19 cubic feet, but dont have notches for wheel sells, stop the front portion sooner, but have the drop down sections that the ground effects hide.

The truck bed stuff is NASTY. I used on the inside of my car for sound deadening and still have plenty to coat the interior of the trailer. It literally stinks for days!

The hood is one of the larger challanges. I think the coupe version might have a chance at being easier since the body lines on the front and rear both go down in the center (vs. the rear going up on the GT), but if they don't line up nice, it could still be a pain. I am wanting to redo my hood due to an error I made when mocking it up. Do not cut any of the lower structure for the hood, just remove the outer skin at the rear. Then trim as little as needed to join the hood sub streucture to the rear deck lid sub structure. This will allow joining the two sub structures first, then focusing on getting the outer skin to look good. You are much better at the fiberglass stuff that I, so your plan might have already been similar to this.

When you get it done, I would really like to know how much it weights. My interior is 16 ga steel, so I believe my trailer will be atleast 100 - 200 lbs heavier.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-22-2006).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Looking good! I really like the flat floor! How far below the center of the rear sheet metal decklid latch area? Any idea how much storage space you will have? I have 19 cubic feet, but dont have notches for wheel sells, stop the front portion sooner, but have the drop down sections that the ground effects hide.

14" from floor to latch bolt centers and 44" between wheel tubs. no idea on CF as I flunked algae-bra.

quote The hood is one of the larger challanges. I think the coupe version might have a chance at being easier since the body lines on the front and rear both go down in the center (vs. the rear going up on the GT), but if they don't line up nice, it could still be a pain. I am wanting to redo my hood due to an error I made when mocking it up. Do not cut any of the lower structure for the hood, just remove the outer skin at the rear. Then trim as little as needed to join the hood sub streucture to the rear deck lid sub structure. This will allow joining the two sub structures first, then focusing on getting the outer skin to look good. You are much better at the fiberglass stuff that I, so your plan might have already been similar to this.

That sounds like pretty much my plan also. the main thing I need to find out is how hard the skin comes off the substructure. when I was doing the rear clip of my IMSA I found that was quite easy but the decklids have a lot more surface area so we'll see. I need to narrow the rear of the lid by ~3" in order to match up with the rear portion.

quote Originally posted by Russ544: That sounds like pretty much my plan also. the main thing I need to find out is how hard the skin comes off the substructure. when I was doing the rear clip of my IMSA I found that was quite easy but the decklids have a lot more surface area so we'll see. I need to narrow the rear of the lid by ~3" in order to match up with the rear portion.

The rear skin came off my deck lid quite easily, but I am sure it varys from deck lid to decklid.

I also had to trim the hood on the sides. I used a 1 x 1/8 steel strap and clamped it at the front corner and again at the proper location on the rear and used a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel on my hand grinder and just followed the guide. The cut line came out clean and unbroken.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: The rear skin came off my deck lid quite easily, but I am sure it varys from deck lid to decklid. I also had to trim the hood on the sides. I used a 1 x 1/8 steel strap and clamped it at the front corner and again at the proper location on the rear and used a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel on my hand grinder and just followed the guide. The cut line came out clean and unbroken.

I guess I need to look at mine again as I was thinking I'd have to split the hood down the middle and re-join it. the lip portion on the sides didn't appear wide enough to narrow down and still have enough flat area left to put a rubber seal against.. On the other hand, I was also thinking I may build a rain gutter on the edge instead of using a rubber seal. I'll have to study on it some more

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I guess I need to look at mine again as I was thinking I'd have to split the hood down the middle and re-join it. the lip portion on the sides didn't appear wide enough to narrow down and still have enough flat area left to put a rubber seal against.. On the other hand, I was also thinking I may build a rain gutter on the edge instead of using a rubber seal. I'll have to study on it some more

You will lose the flat seal surface if you do it like I did.

I went the rain gutter route, but it was part of the interior sheet metal - it just comes up about 1/4" higher than the fender bolt surface and has a nice 1/8" gap to let the water flow down below. It rained like crazy on several days on the power tour and all out luggage stayed nice and dry!.