quote Originally posted by Blacktree: .............I saw the writing on the wall.

I saw the writing too. It was when we were supposed to drive on the Indy track as a group. Phil claimed they (Indy officials) canceled at the last minute. Something just didn't seem right. I bailed after that, and alot of folks did too.

[This message has been edited by 007DOUG (edited 02-19-2006).]

The group run on the Indy track was canceled because the track was started some track reconstruction at the time. I doubt that Phil or Gloria had anything to do with the reconstuction plan of the track. I toured the Indy museum at that time, then cried all the way back to the motel after missing that track opportunity.

Well I'll put my two cents in here.... I never knew Gloria or Phil until my fiancee and I met them at the Osage Beach show put on by FOCOA back in August of 2002. I had owned my 88 GT for 2 or 3 years by then. I went down to their show from Kansas City. I actually drove my Corvette down, some of you who were there might remember. Anyway I joined FOCOA while I was there that weekend and like everone else was promised the moon, and actually never got much of anything. They were obviously well into shutdown mode then and knew they were just taking my money. So to hear that someone was paying to advertise FOCOA on Hemmings again started to rile me abit. I never got taken for a full membership or parts like alot of people were, but I was still shilled, and it left a bad taste. I do hope Phil and Gloria are forced to make some kind of restitution to the Fiero community. Least of all the Fiero memrobilia they have should be given up and put into the hands of more reputable people to oversee. That said I'll conclude by saying I have been a Pennocks member for many years and find this board an invaluable asset to the Fiero Community, if for nothing else to identify the hucksters who are out there preying on the innocent and unknowing. So if someone wants to flame me because I appreciate this information being talked about here, have at it.

[This message has been edited by laffer98 (edited 02-20-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Earl-R: I received the same E-mail Small steps.... I waiting on a call back from State Attorney's Offices in California and Nevada. I don't think Nevada can do anything because it originated in CA. But I'm sure the Fed's will be interested.

Don't hold your breath. The California Attorney General's Office is overwhelmed with cases that are probably have much greater significance (but anything is possible).

In any event, here is some information regarding California law that might be of some help. There are several possible remedies some of which would be limited to FOCOA, and some of which would (or at least could) include Phil and/or Gloria.

Arguably, Phil and Gloria have committed a fraud. The statute of limitations ("SOL") for fraud in California is three years from the date of discovery of the fraud. There is a requirement that a person who is apprised of some facts disclosing a fraud make a reasonably diligent effort to discover the true facts.
However, since the last activity in which Phil, Gloria and FOCOA had been involved occurred in or about May, 2003, the statute may not have expired as of this date; at least not for some of the members.

California also allows for an action under the unfair competition law ('UCL") found in Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200, et seq. Due to the infinite wisdom of the voting population in passing Prop. 64, the ability to proceed under the UCL has been hampered, but nevertheless, is still possible. Generally, a violation under the UCL allows for restitution and claims fall within a 4 year SOL.

Although I never joined, it appears that under California law, FOCOA was an unincorporated membership organization which raises a number of additional issues.

California Corporations Code provides in pertinent part:

"18110. Property acquired by or for an unincorporated association is property of the unincorporated association and not of the members individually.

18130. After all of the known debts and liabilities of an unincorporated association in the process of winding up its affairs have been paid or adequately provided for, the assets of the association shall be distributed in the following manner: (a) Assets held upon a valid condition requiring return, transfer, or conveyance of the assets, which condition has occurred or will occur, shall be returned, transferred, or conveyed in accordance with the condition. (b) After complying with subdivision (a), any remaining assets that are held in trust shall be distributed in accordance with the trust. (c) After complying with subdivisions (a) and (b), any remaining assets shall be distributed in accordance with the governing principles of the association. If the governing principles do not provide the manner of distribution of the assets, the assets shall be distributed pro rata to the current members of the association.

18135. (a) Notwithstanding Section 18260, a cause of action against an unincorporated association may be enforced against a person who received assets distributed under Section 18130. Liability under this section shall be limited to the value of the assets distributed to the person or the person's pro rata share of the claim against the unincorporated association, whichever is less. (b) An action under this section shall be commenced before the earlier of the following dates: (1) Expiration of the statute of limitations applicable to the cause of action. (2) Four years after dissolution of the unincorporated association. This paragraph does not apply in a quiet title action.

18260. A money judgment against an unincorporated association, whether organized for profit or not, may be enforced only against the property of the association.

18270. (a) A judgment creditor of a member, director, officer, or agent of an unincorporated association may not levy execution against the assets of the member, director, officer, or agent to satisfy a judgment based on a claim against the unincorporated association unless a judgment based on the same claim has been obtained against the unincorporated association and any of the following conditions is satisfied: (1) A writ of execution on the judgment against the unincorporated association has been returned unsatisfied in whole or in part. (2) The unincorporated association is a debtor in bankruptcy. (3) The member, director, officer, or agent has agreed that the creditor need not exhaust the assets of the unincorporated association. (4) A court grants permission to the judgment creditor to levy execution against the assets of a member, director, officer, or agent based on a finding that the assets of the unincorporated association subject to execution are clearly insufficient to satisfy the judgment, that exhaustion of the assets of the unincorporated association is excessively burdensome, or that the grant of permission is an appropriate exercise of the court's equitable powers. (b) Nothing in this section affects the right of a judgment creditor to levy execution against the assets of a member, director, officer, or agent of an unincorporated association if the claim against the member, director, officer, or agent is not based on a claim against the unincorporated association.

18410. An unincorporated association may be dissolved by any of the following methods: (a) If the association's governing documents provide a method for dissolution, by that method. (b) If the association's governing documents do not provide a method for dissolution, by the affirmative vote of a majority of the voting power of the association. (c) If the association's operations have been discontinued for at least three years, by the board or, if the association has no incumbent board, by the members of its last preceding incumbent board. (d) If the association's operations have been discontinued, by court order.

18420. Promptly after commencement of dissolution of an unincorporated association, the board or, if none, the members shall promptly wind up the affairs of the association, pay or provide for its known debts or liabilities, collect any amounts due to it, take any other action as is necessary or appropriate for winding up, settling, and liquidating its affairs, and dispose of its assets as provided in Section 18130. "

Since I have found nothing to indicate that FOCOA has been formally dissolved, the remaining property still belongs to those persons who paid for "life memberships" and thus, must still be considered members.

To the extent that anyone, including without limitation Phil and/or Gloria, have taken any of the assets belonging to FOCOA, a separate action for fraudulent conveyance of such assets could be commenced.

I don't know what the assets of FOCOA were, or might have been. However, to the extent that anythng is left, no single person has a specific right to those assets.

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FierOmar

[This message has been edited by FierOmar (edited 02-20-2006).]

quote Originally posted by topcat: I did a yearly membership and glad that is all I gave them.

Ditto....I'm glad I couldn't afford a lifetime membership back then. I joined in 98 and the last issue of Fiero owner I received was 3rd quarter 2001. Was there a 4th quarter ever printed or is this the last one?

Omar,

If what you say is true and it wasn't incorporated, then if Gloria and Phil took any assets then embezzlement could be thrown in as well. This is going to get interesting.

quote Originally posted by Earl-R: This is going to get interesting.

You bet this is going to get interesting!

quote Originally posted by Earl-R: Omar, If what you say is true and it wasn't incorporated, then if Gloria and Phil took any assets then embezzlement could be thrown in as well. This is going to get interesting.

I have not been able to find anything that would lead me to conclude that the business and/or "club" was incorporated. Check the California Secretary of State's website at: http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/list.html

Also checked another source that allows me to search by way of officer and/or address. Found nothing by way of officer for either P. Huff, K. Huff, or G. Huff. Since I don't know the address used for the business or the club, I haven't been able to check by way of address as of this time. Maybe someone can find the address (one or more) that was used, and post that information.

Even if the business/club had been incorporated in another state, California law would require registration within the state if the entity were, in fact, conducting business within this state.

If nothing else, there may be a way to salvage some of the "club" assets.

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FierOmar

I checked eariler this morning also, I didn't find anything either.

I forgot today was a holiday and tried calling the State Attorneys Office. Tomorrow I'll try again.

FYI, From Yahoo People Search:

Phillip Huff
Po Box 561
Pahrump, NV 89041-0561

Tel.: (775) 751-0118

Phil and Gloria deserve anything and everything that can be thrown at them. I don't blame Keith for not turning his parents in, but his parents are thieves. Hiding out in Nevada until the statute of limitations runs out will NOT work. It's one thing to formally disband a club and give people their money back for items and services not rendered, it's quite another to take the money and keep taking more money, and run off with it.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: FYI, From Yahoo People Search: Phillip Huff Po Box 561 Pahrump, NV 89041-0561 Tel.: (775) 751-0118

I posted his address in a earlier post.

Yes I did, have you heard anything else?

Contact the post office as they commited interstate mail fraud and that is a federal offence.

I go not know the time limit or details but they can put you away on that one.

Last issue of the news letter I saw was 3rd quarter 2002.

I joined in 1989 and even back then knew better than send for a lifetime deal with them.

quote Originally posted by Earl-R: Yes I did, have you heard anything else?

PM sent

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: I posted his address in a earlier post.

You might want to just stop by and say hello. Street address I found is:
1290 W. Gamebird Rd., Pahrump, NV 89041 -- the phone # appears to be correct.

Now, does anybody know who all the "lifetime members" are. Perhaps now is a good time to start of list of these members... perhaps a new thread seeking out the names of each lifetime member. A separate list could be established for those who never received a refund or the parts that had been paid for.

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FierOmar

I do not know the legalities involved but this is just a thought. I posted the FOCOA website back on page one a few days ago. It was still soliciting memberships at that time. A few of you contacted Hemmings and told them about the situation and it has since been removed. Wouldn't the statute of limitations start on the day the website was taken down, as it was still soliciting memberships?

I'm presently going through the archives trying to find as many names as possible that were taken by the Huff's.

The problem is putting names with the ID's and contacting them plus getting the word out to others that aren't on this forum about this.

quote Originally posted by Earl-R: I'm presently going through the archives trying to find as many names as possible that were taken by the Huff's. The problem is putting names with the ID's and contacting them plus getting the word out to others that aren't on this forum about this.

Although it might be preferable to have a list of lifetime members that is as complete as possible, any one member may commence a legal action with respect to the membership rights.

Recovering for individual parts orders would be a bit more difficult, although not impossible. That is one reason why separate lists would be beneficial.

Since I have never seen any FOCOA materials, it would help to see a copy of the application and/or membership information.

It would also help if someone could publish the street address and mail address of each business operated by the Huff's. It is not entirely clear to me whether the FOCOA "club" was any different than the parts business.

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FierOmar

Just something for the record

http://home.comcast.net/~west_michigan_fiero_club/about_the_club.htm

http://www.fierographix.net/linkspage.html?957126790090

they go to the Fiero Farm when you click on the list on the pages?

Fiero Owners Club Of America, 7200 Hazard Avenue Westminster, CA 92683-5027, Contact:Phil Huff, Tel 714)903-6186, Fax 714)903-6196, web: http://www.fieroowners.com email: fieroown@gte.net

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: Just something for the record http://home.comcast.net/~west_michigan_fiero_club/about_the_club.htm http://www.fierographix.net/linkspage.html?957126790090 they go to the Fiero Farm when you click on the list on the pages? Fiero Owners Club Of America, 7200 Hazard Avenue Westminster, CA 92683-5027, Contact:Phil Huff, Tel 714)903-6186, Fax 714)903-6196, web: http://www.fieroowners.com email: fieroown@gte.net

I have the FOCOA website bookmarked in my browser, and not long ago, I clicked on it, just to see what would happen. I ended up at the Fiero Farm website as well. I don't believe there's any connection between the Huffs and Todd Weikal, who owns the Fiero Farm. He's an honest guy, who goes out of his way to help you.

I'm not sure why, though, you go to his website when you click on those links. Todd's a member here...perhaps we should ask him? I'm sure it's something simple, such as he purchased the domain after they went dormant, or something like that.

This was brought to my attention by a friend of mine on the forum. I hope to clear some of this up.
I am in NO way connected to Phil!
I was ask by someone I know if they could forward the fieroownersclub.com link to my website until they decided what they where going to do with it.
They bought it when it came up as expired.
I said sure.
It has been this way for quite some time. If you are getting the old site then it must be in your cookies.
Feel free to contact me for more info if needed.

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That Todd guy

Need parts? Email me at todd@thefierofarm.com
www.thefierofarm.com
Bates City, MO

[This message has been edited by thefierofarm.com (edited 02-21-2006).]

Hey all,

First, let me say that I am sorry that all of you had this happen. Although I've been here a short time, I can see that there are alot of good people here.

Next the good news, you don't need a list of the members to get them refunds or help out with the lawsuit. Any one person can start a class-action suit, and the feds will take any and all information from these people and contact all of them. Also. I had a NV state Private Investagaors Lic., I'm not sure if it's still active. If it is, I can help. A P.I. has some pretty broad powers and can serve them a summons, and any other paperwork. I'll check when I get home.

Lets get 'em where it hurts, and claim what is rightfully yours.

Michal

quote Originally posted by thefierofarm.com: If you are getting the old site then it must be in your cookies.

I would say OK to this, but I clean out my cookies daily, and I had never tried to go to the FOCOA website before, because I had heard that club was gone. I was able to pull up their website with no problem, before it was taken down by Hemmings.

quote Originally posted by eldervampire: Hey all, First, let me say that I am sorry that all of you had this happen. Although I've been here a short time, I can see that there are alot of good people here. Next the good news, you don't need a list of the members to get them refunds or help out with the lawsuit. Any one person can start a class-action suit, and the feds will take any and all information from these people and contact all of them. Also. I had a NV state Private Investagaors Lic., I'm not sure if it's still active. If it is, I can help. A P.I. has some pretty broad powers and can serve them a summons, and any other paperwork. I'll check when I get home. Lets get 'em where it hurts, and claim what is rightfully yours. Michal

I think you may have a basic misunderstanding of the nature of class action. By way of example, Section 1781 of California’s Consumer Legal Remedies Act provides in pertinent part:

“(a) Any consumer entitled to bring an action under Section 1780 may, if the unlawful method, act, or practice has caused damage to other consumers similarly situated, bring an action on behalf of himself and such other consumers to recover damages or obtain other relief as provided for in Section 1780.

(b) The court shall permit the suit to be maintained on behalf of all members of the represented class if all of the following conditions exist:

(1) It is impracticable to bring all members of the class before the court.

(2) The questions of law or fact common to the class are substantially similar and predominate over the questions affecting the individual members.

(3) The claims or defenses of the representative plaintiffs are typical of the claims or defenses of the class.

(4) The representative plaintiffs will fairly and adequately protect the interests of the class.”

Notice, usually in the form of publication must be given. That can get expensive and contrary to your experience, such expense usually falls on the party proposing the class action. Moreover, the courts closely monitor class actions, requiring court approval of virtually every significant aspect.

I doubt that there are sufficient assets to warrant a class action. A similar result can be obtained with the UCL action without incurring all the expenses. Memberships may present an altogether different set of issues.

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FierOmar

quote Originally posted by WingNut - MD: I would say OK to this, but I clean out my cookies daily, and I had never tried to go to the FOCOA website before, because I had heard that club was gone. I was able to pull up their website with no problem, before it was taken down by Hemmings.

the hemmings site wasnt the fieroownersclub.com or whatever focoa was, it was something like hemmings.com/focoa

so it wouldnt have been forwareded

You are correct, I reviewed the casefile I worked on and it was the attorney who acted in getting the related parties involved.
My license in NV is in fact expired, but if I operate in Illinois on behalf of a client NV state law allows me to operate at a limited capacity in that state, in conjuntion with local authorites.

Wow ..... I'm sitting reading thru all this crap and laughing my a$$ off !!!

Someone should tell Phil that what goes around comes around !!! Maybe it's time to pay the piper !

Next, maybe we can go after some more thiefs while we're at it ....... like Terry Owens !!!
(I can't believe he is still selling stolen Fiero parts on Ebay and getting away with it .... what's worse people are buying from him !!!)

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Proud Member, Classic Fiero Owners Group - International
www.cfogi.org

[This message has been edited by 2M4 Dale (edited 02-22-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 2M4 Dale: Wow ..... I'm sitting reading thru all this crap and laughing my a$$ off !!! Someone should tell Phil that what goes around comes around !!! Maybe it's time to pay the piper ! Next, maybe we can go after some more thiefs while we're at it ....... like Terry Owens !!! (I can't believe he is still selling stolen Fiero parts on Ebay and getting away with it .... what's worse people are buying from him !!!)

Let us/me know his ebay name so I don't buy from him.

tgowens

In one way Curry was right, as long as people keep bringing it up FOCOA will never die.
"I agree with everyone else here, what Phil and Gloria did was wrong and someone should have to account for it!"

quote Originally posted by 2M4 Dale: ...Terry Owens !!! I can't believe he is still selling stolen Fiero parts on Ebay and getting away with it .... what's worse people are buying from him !!!

I'd ask if you were kidding, except I know that you're not.
I can't believe how freakin' nervy some people are.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'd ask if you were kidding, except I know that you're not.

I'll vouch for Dale that he's not kidding. I don't recommend anyone do any business whatsoever with T.O.

Terrell Owens? Yeah he's a jerk - I hope the Eagles get rid of him.

In all seriousness though I wouldn't give money to Terry or FOCOA!

~ Jen

Hmm... seems to have gotten a bit off topic. It appears that we all know what happened to FOCOA and/or Fiero Phil, and where he is located at the present time.

At this time I will start a new thread with the purpose of determining how many "lifetime" members of FOCOA there may have been as well as a second thread listing those who paid for product in advance, but never received the goods.

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FierOmar

First and Foremost GLORIA HUFF is not Keith Huff's mom.
Keith's mom is a sweet woman who would do anything for anyone...nothing like that creature Gloria.
Gloria is a lying cheating fat ass ***** that kept taking my money and never sending me my magazines.
I EVEN COMPLAINED TO HER IN PERSON IN ANAHEIM!!!
When she got involved with FOCOA through marriage to Phil, the whole fun little club went straight downhill.
She ruined the club before anyone knew what was happening and they were FORCED to close down, as people stopped paying their dues because they received NOTHING.
Phil basically closed shop and moved. I bet a million dollars Gloria was personally bankrolling the HMS ad and pocketing the money without Phil's knowledge.
Phil was a genuine guy trying to make the Fiero the best little car in the world.
It's cancellation and GLORIA basically ruined him and his club dream...we were lucky he kept it going as long as he did...and the custom parts were amazing!!!

Keith on the other hand is one of the nicest coolest guys I have ever known...just like his REAL mom.
Keith is also the FIERO DOC...he is a certified GM master mechanic and worked for years exclusively on the Fiero.
He is the most amazing Fiero Mechanic I have had the pleasure of working on my cars exclusively to this day.
His custom plates say "FIERODOC", and the other Fiero Doc is not the original Fiero Doc!!!
Don't ever knock Keith...because he is a huge guy that could knock you silly if he weren't so darn nice!!!
Show some respect for Keith.

As far as Gloria and Phil go...I hope Phil pleads insanity for Marrying that ***** , and I hope she gets locked up for FRAUD and the HMS ad revenues.

Does anyone have any updates on this?

Wasn't my update enough???
What other info are you looking for???

quote Originally posted by SNMFX: Wasn't my update enough??? What other info are you looking for???

I was referring to the legal side and not a statement / opinion, though what you added to this thread was a very interesting read, thanks...

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8T6 GT

quote Originally posted by SNMFX: Wasn't my update enough??? What other info are you looking for???

While your input is appreciated, it doesn't resolve any problems. It helps us to understand the problem, but at this point it's likely progressed to the point of a class action lawsuit and knowing that Phil and Keith are good guys doesn't mitigate that. If it was truly all Gloria's fault, I would hope the proceedings would uncover that and let the blame fall where it should.

But it's obviously too late to cut someone some slack hoping they'll make good on their promises. Keith may be totally uninvolved in any FOCOA dealings and may be a great guy, but he clearly has a monetary stake in the club's assets since it appears to be a family run organization. At the very least that makes him a non-objective source of information.