wow, i heard they were so-so clutches......after reading this i would be VERY shakey about even dealing with them or buying one.

i had some issues with BULLY clutches as well, took 3 times for them to get it right....(perhaps some of a english/french language barrier too , tho i speak french too, so wtf?!) but anyways, they did get it right, didnt cost me anything more as they fixed mine no charge and its been great ever since. stage 4 clutch with custom stage 4/5 pressure plate....good for up to 6500 hp.

i would recommend them over this Spec company anyday

Except for the center hub issue, the clutches seem to be bulletproof. More than enough reason for those of us with 300+ lb/ft of torque to keep buying from spec. If the clutch was brand new and you wanted another I'm sure they would have replaced no questions asked. The only problem is the clutch is 3 years old, been used for over a year trouble free and the warranty is expired. On the other hand, they did say they would make things right, I can't choose sides on this one, but it is a bad situation.

I don't see how you can say it was defective when it worked throughout its warrenty period flawlessly, and even exceeded it by a half year. I would be grateful they even offered you a discount. I guess I can see your point with the problem, but I don't see where they should offer you a free one either.

I put a 3800sc in my fiero and the flywheel I bought from fidanza doesn't work anymore, I want my money back.. Oh wait, I used a different engine, eh, it should still be free... LOL, I'm just picking on you and greatly exaggerating, don't take that joke the wrong way. I think I would just let it go though.

I bought a clutch disk from www.clutchnet.com a few years back. It was an unsprung hub and I actually stripped the teeth off it it about a year and a half later. While the friction material was still in very good shape, I didn't feel I really had a case bringin it up with them. 18 months was certainly well worth the cost of the disk and 200 bucks 2 years later wasn't really that big of a deal compared to the hassle of a free product out of warrenty...

http://members.cox.net/pbodymechanic2/P6110052.MOV

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Except for the center hub issue, the clutches seem to be bulletproof. More than enough reason for those of us with 300+ lb/ft of torque to keep buying from spec. If the clutch was brand new and you wanted another I'm sure they would have replaced no questions asked. The only problem is the clutch is 3 years old, been used for over a year trouble free and the warranty is expired. On the other hand, they did say they would make things right, I can't choose sides on this one, but it is a bad situation.

I'm evidently missing something in the original part of this thread. I read it as saying the original SPEC was bought/installed "Aug 2004". If today really is Mar 04 2006, (it is --isn't it? Or did I sleep a whole year away?), that makes the SPEC clutch in question only 1 year and 7 months old. To have been 3 years old, it would have had to be bought and installed March 04 2003--if math still works like it used to.

What is it I am missing?

Are they going by date of manufactor or by the date he bought it?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I'm evidently missing something in the original part of this thread. I read it as saying the original SPEC was bought/installed "Aug 2004". If today really is Mar 04 2006, (it is --isn't it? Or did I sleep a whole year away?), that makes the SPEC clutch in question only 1 year and 7 months old. To have been 3 years old, it would have had to be bought and installed March 04 2003--if math still works like it used to. What is it I am missing? Are they going by date of manufactor or by the date he bought it?

Must be some of that new math I keep hearing about. sorry I couldn't help my self, Joe

They claim that the "date code" on the clutch is 3 years old, and insinuate that thats when i bought and installed it. I bought and installed it around Aug. 2004.

To everyone who keeps saying I am being unreasonable for wanting a new clutch, I am no longer really expecting anything, I know they wont give me anything...that doesn't mean I don't still want a refund. What I do want is my old clutch back. They still have it, I still own it, and they refuse to return it.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-05-2006).]

So if I go to Lowes tomorrow and buy a new (old?) still in the box
Kenmore washing machine that was built in July 2005, and it comes with a 1yr parts and labor warranty--is the warranty up in July 2006 or March 2007?
We already know the answer to that. Warranties run from date of purchase rom the retailer. Otherwise, most of the things we buy from places like autozone would be out of warranty before they were ever sold-unless they carried a lifetime warranty. Now, as I said in my 1st reply, it is agreed the clutch was out of warranty by the time the axle broke, so it may be a moot point, but all this talk about the clutch being 3 yrs old is just talk, unless someone can come up with proof you bought it over a year earlier than you say you did. If you bought it Aug 2004 as you stated, that means it was only out of warranty 4 months when Dec 2005 rolled around and you broke the axle.

quote Thank you for your insight, though you know nothing of the situation other than what you read. If that were the truthful rendition, you would be correct. We would have replaced any defective parts.

To me, the part was defective the moment it left their facility bound for you and installation into your Fiero and mated to what was thought to be a Fiero transmission. The fact that you got use out of it has nada to do with anything SPEC did.

Now, IF you are trying to get them to pay for damges to the TOB and sleeve, or labor costs to replace the clutch, TOB/sleeve--that's a different story. Most warranties exclude that coverage.

Hard to say which way it will go. I see enough build threads and sigs with SPEC clutches mentioned to believe they are good clutches, but I also believe they sold you a defective part for your application.

I have a question-
If a clutch with the known defect had crapped out because of the defect 1.5 years/15,000 miles after being installed, would SPEC have replaced it? I have a feeling they probably would not, so you are probably SOL, but since they offered to 'make it right' and have not, and still have your property and won't return it, I think they should do whatever it takes to do what they originally said and 'make it right'. The last time I had a problem with a vendor, I bought a 'complete' ZR-1 light kit for custom tail light panel. I asked specifically if it included hardware, gaskets and light buckets and was assured it was everything. When it arrived, there were 4 lenses and some light sockets- nothing else. They would not return my phone calls or emails, so I called my credit card company and explained the problem. I forwarded the emails and the packing list of what I had actually received. Within a few days, I had a credit to my account for the price difference between a set of lenses and their 'complete lighting kit'. If you paid with a credit card, I'd be on the phone with them right now and explain the situation. Most of the time, they will side with their customer and be willing to apply a reasonible credit to your account for the transaction. Good luck!

Well, I have come to a decision.

Since they refuse to return my old clutch, I am performing a chargeback on my credit card on the purchase of my new clutch.

The clutch is $289, but the total charge was $371 (shipping was $82 according to UPS, so they were honest and accurate), so I am going to dispute $289 of the charge.

Truthfully, I believe they threw away the clutch, either out of carelessness or an effort to destroy evidence, and are trying to come up with a good way of getting out of replacing it. Why else would they agree to send it back and then never do so, and refuse when I call back 3 weeks later? As for their excuse about not shipping because I went to the BBB, I didn't ask for it to be shipped back until I had gotten the reply from them to my BBB claim. As you can see in my rebuttal, I ask for it back there, (which was the first time I asked), and then called a few days later.

I had a feeling it was going to be trouble getting the old clutch back when I decided to ask for it. The first time I called to get it back, the salesman/tech who had been handling the whole thing said "Ohh, you wanted it back? I didn't realize...I will have to wait for the President to get back to see what he did with it, I'll call you back on thursday." Of course he never called back, so I called him on Friday, (he said the VP would be in thursday and friday that week), and he finally talked to the President, and told me it would go out ground ASAP.

One thing I must say is that Matt, the rep I have been speaking with, has been very helpful and polite throughout the whole thing. Everything that pissed me off about this situation has come from the President, Pete.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-06-2006).]

I'll make a suggestion...
Don't dispute the entire cost. You *did* get some use out of the old clutch.
They offered you 25% off your next purchase. You already said that you'd be satisfied with the 25% credit if it was applied to the one you just purchased.
Just dispute 25%. 50% at the most. It'll prove your point, and also prove to all concerned that you aren't out to get a "freebie".

Just my .02. (shipping not included)

The time for me to be satisfied with 25% has passed. That clutch had at least 80% life left, and frankly, it could have been modified to make it work again. It didn't even look like it had fully seated yet, and as amazing as that sounds, KurtAKX saw it in person and can verify this.

It doesn't matter anyway, as the way I see it, I am not trying to get a refund for my old clutch. They have stolen it, (when they asked me to send it to them, it was so they could inspect it...supposedly they did that, but you would have to be blind to miss the groove on the hub as they did), and will not return it. It would cost $289 to replace, so I am charging $289. They don't sell half-used clutches. I would accept my old clutch in lieu of $289, but they won't send it to me. If I was being "greedy" like they claim, I would try to get the shipping back or maybe the $552 to have the clutch R&Red.

If a thief breaks into your house and steals your 3-year-old 60" plasma TV...(well, maybe 2 thieves), does your insurance pro-rate the reimbursement based how much similar used TVs are fetching at the time, so you can replace it with a 36"? No, you get full reimbursement to replace the TV and set your life back as close as possible to how it had been before the theft. If the thieves cleared you completely out, and the insurance prorated everything, (ohh, we can see from this photo that the table had a scratch in it!), you would be left with enough to buy Wal-Mart brand furniture, appliances, and electronics.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-06-2006).]

Just dont get into auto insurance like that, because thats how they operate, you could have your bently totaled by someone who ran a red light and barely get enough back for a Honda.

I specifically didn't used a car as an example for that reason. Then again, there are plenty of used cars around, but used clutch sets with so little wear and in such good overall condition are hard to come by, and traditionally not sold.

quote Originally posted by THE BEAST: Bigfieroman Could you email me or Post a picture of the right and wrong Clutch? Thanks! JG

**BUMP**

quote Well, I have come to a decision. Since they refuse to return my old clutch, I am performing a chargeback on my credit card on the purchase of my new clutch.

Refusing to pay for your new clutch, by asking your credit card company for a charge back, is what I would call theft. You sir have some nerve. I just hope they don't file any criminal charges against you for doing so, especially if they are following this thread. If there isn't anything wrong with your new clutch they deserve their payment for it.
I also heard a rumor, and it probably is NOT true as most rumors are, but someone said you had purchased the car with this "defective" clutch already installed in it from the previous owner. Is this true? This would certainly put a different spin on things if it is true.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-06-2006).]

The clutch worked long enough to break his axle.

No, the previous owner installed a stock replacement clutch, which he had mostly killed by excessive heat, (I suspect he used the clutch to hold on hills). The fingers lost their heat treat, became brittle, and snapped off. When it started making noise 6 months into my ownership, 1 finger was still intact. I had the first SPEC clutch installed by Dale at that time. Dale can verify this. Thank you for just asking instead of accusing, I sincerely apprecciate it.

As for this being theft, we will see. I have to fill out forms and submit them to my CC company for review. I am going to be truthful and honest, just like I have here, because if I were to lie it would be fraud. If they see fit to make the chargeback, then they condone my actions. If not, maybe I'll just call the police.

What would you have me do to get my clutch back, ohh righteous Avengador? Should I call the cops and have the president arrested and press charges? Would that be more civil and to your liking? Or should I sue him for return of the clutch plus court costs, which would be $3000ish? I tried asking nicely, I even offered to pay for shipping 100% ($12). I sure as hell am not flying down to Alabama, they would throw me out for trespassing anyway. So, if I am so wrong, what do you think I should do about getting my old clutch back?
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The beast, the first picture in this thread is the WRONG hub:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20060206-2-066837.html

The correct clutch will have that small, 1.5" diameter hub be flush and not protrude.

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-06-2006).]

i used to own a 1970 chevy stepside that i put probably $15,000 into. it had a lift with 37'' tires, new paint, a 350 and 700r4 transmission, currie 9'' rear end with 4.56 gears, seats were recovered when i was in tech school. it was the kind of truck that got the chicks attention. One day i bought a house and it needed a new furnace. I commute 80 miles a day and the 13mpg in the chevy wasn't going to cut it. the transfer case shook at highway speed, old gear drive np205, and all in all it just fell short and it sat there doing nothing. after weighing my options one day i realized it was time to LET IT GO.

Hey, Josh, your back!

Finally recovered from being called all those names?

Tell me, when you let the truck go, did you push it into a lake or did you sell it, you know, to extract value from it?

I got $2,200 in cash and a bravada. The Bravada later blew the engine so I sold that for $750. I don't regret selling it. Just buying it. I consider it a lesson learned. Plus I still have some pictures of when I used to be cool.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: The beast, the first picture in this thread is the WRONG hub: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20060206-2-066837.html The correct clutch will have that small, 1.5" diameter hub be flush and not protrude.

I have the wrong hub???

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 03-06-2006).]

Yeah, I think so? Everything I have read says that side should be flush. My old one only protruded about that much, and the new one was flush.

Here is a pic of my old disk, it DEFINATELY hit:

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 03-06-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Yeah, I think so? Everything I have read says that side should be flush. My old one only protruded about that much, and the new one was flush.

Maybe they just stuck an extra long snout on your rebuilt Getrag.

Oh wait... The new disc worked. Nevermind.

Well this f-king sucks. I read the hub issues in the past, but my hub doesn't stick out as far as the ones I've seen posted, so I didn't think it would be an issue. Turns out this is correct:

Has anyone has this problem with an Isuzu? Seems all reports are on the getrag. Would be interesting if anyone has measurements of the sleeve for each trans

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 03-07-2006).]

Well gee Jncomutt, I sure hope you bought it less than a year ago...

Or, with how they apparently work, that it was built less than a year ago.

I thought SPEC was the god in clutches and I was going to buy my next clutch from them. (if this Centerforce DF Archie clutch ever packs it in)

Hmm now to wonder what I am going to do.

I think blacklisting SPEC and everyone getting worried about using them is idiotic at best. They know about the problem with the hubs, they fixed it months ago and made good on ones that were sent out defective. They still make arguably the best clutches out there for Fieros. BigFieroMan just wants them to pay for his mistake, and they have every right to tell him to get bent.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: I thought SPEC was the god in clutches and I was going to buy my next clutch from them. (if this Centerforce DF Archie clutch ever packs it in) Hmm now to wonder what I am going to do.

Im in the same boat. I think Archie still uses CF clutches on sub 300HP cars, but has started using the SPEC clutch on the cars with more than 300 hp.
I have a CF clutch now and was looking for a new one. My car is probably around 340 crank HP.

I will say that my stage 3 has over 2000 fairly hard miles on it. not a problem ! Strong grab

Just because 1 guy has bad dealings with them is nothing compaired to the 10's of thouands of very happy customers I would bet they have.

Dude, I feel bad for ya a bit, BUT slandering them is not the path to take.
Sue them (if this is such a burden on you) hell drive to the shop and get your kicks, but I would just say chalk it up to experance, and drop it. between the lawyers, and a $300 clutch......no real winner.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I think blacklisting SPEC and everyone getting worried about using them is idiotic at best.

Well if they had done a recall on the messed up clutches then there would not have been an issue. Even in Bigfieroman's case they would have told him about the problem. He would have probably told them it was ok but would have been looking for it when he swapped the tranny.
Look **** happens. I would hope they have the problems fixed and will keep selling clutches for Fieros.
I have to drop the cradle to pull my tranny, not just the back side I have to remove the tranny and motor from the cradle. This is a big pain in the ass but its worth it to me to have solid mounts. I dont want to install a new clutch only to have it go bad. I watch threads like this so I know what to look for. I have never said I wouldnt buy a SPEC clutch.

Bigfieroman, call the cops on them, file a lawsuit, picket their business place, you are in for a rude awakening when you find out not one of them will care. If your credit card refunds you the money, more power to you. I don't think they will, as the clutch you have now is not defective and they aren't going to give you a charge back for a two year old clutch. If this makes me righteous then so be it, I am only trying to tell you what to expect. Your CC company will do an investigation and get their (Spec's) side of the dispute. I wouldn't expect a refund of any kind, if you get anything be happy, you will be one lucky guy if this happens.
I'm glad to hear that the rumors about the clutch being in the car before you bought it are just that. I still think you expect too much from them, especially after all the time that passed since you bought it and the use you got out of it. Did you at least send your old clutch to them by certified mail so you would have a record of them receiving it?
I wouldn't think of reusing a used clutch myself. I actually threw out one with less than 1000 miles on it when I spun some rod bearings on my old engine. I replaced it with a Centerforce one that has given me no problems in 4 years of use (knock on wood). For best performance it is always better to use new parts than used ones in certain cases. There are some things you can't be a cheapskate on.

Fastback86:

I did not blacklist them. I posted my experience and as you can see, different people have different takes on the situation. By the way, HOW is this my mistake in ANY way? The only mistake I made was send the clutch to them UPS instead of USPS, because then it would be federal mail fraud.

Revin:

Slander implies that I am lying. Once again, I posted what happened and how I felt. Some people agree, some don't.

To all:

I said in the first post and in a subsequent post that I think they make great clutches. I never would have thought of even reusing a clutch, but the stage 2 had almost no wear on it. I love the way my car drives, how the clutch grabs, etc. I know I am not getting anything back for the old clutch, since it was out of warranty, it doesn't matter how many times they promised to make things right with me, they don't HAVE to go anything. At this point I just want my old clutch back. They acknowledged that they have it in the BBB reply, and I have the UPS tracking number to prove it.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman:Then the customer service rep spoke with the owner about it, after seeing pictures and researching to find this was a known issue, and told me to go send the old one back in, "we'll make it right for you". Assuming they were going to...ohh, I don't know...make it right for me, I bought a new clutch on the spot for $371 (included overnight shipping, which was like $75)

I know this isn't a laughing matter, but that made me chuckle . Glad you have retained a sense of humour throughout this and hope that things get sorted.

My opinion (for the very little its worth and solely from what I have read), offering 25% off your NEXT purchase, after spending a considerable amount with them is adding insult to injury, as is not sending back your old clutch.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs and legal aspects, SPEC have not done themselves any favours.

Cheers
PK

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 03-08-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I have the wrong hub???

Thanks!
JG

Thanks?

all the problems you had with your clutch are alot like the ones i am having with my ram power grip . i wonder if they are made by the same company

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