Am i the only one creaming my pants over FieroGTwideboby's car? That is now in my personal opinion the best looking Fiero i have ever seen. Could i get more info on that? What kit is it or did he do it all custom?

Ha i just noticed the build thread for it. Ohh and i own page two baby!

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[This message has been edited by 865spd (edited 03-26-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 865spd: Am i the only one creaming my pants over FieroGTwideboby's car? That is now in my personal opinion the best looking Fiero i have ever seen. Could i get more info on that? What kit is it or did he do it all custom? Ha i just noticed the build thread for it. Ohh and i own page two baby!

I think from the photos I have seen FieroGTwideboby's car is the best modified Fiero I have ever seen.

Sorry, but from the photos FieroGTwideboby's car is the Best of Show Period.

Ed

I like all but the whole some trim here no trim there and the front could use some modifying if you ask me. It seems like any other front fascia than the stock is hard to pull off. Mad props on the car though, it looks awesome and it looks like you've done quite a bit of work

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I guess it is all left up to the viewer. It is a Fiero show and what do you pick for Best of Show …Fiero of course.

There are people that like the STOCK Fieros, MODIFIED Fieros, RACE Fieros and RE-BODIES Fieros.

So, I guess the best of show should be a pure STOCK FIERO with all do respect to the Fiero lovers that work very hard to find parts in new condition and make the car as original stock as possible.

I still like FieroGTwideboby's car.

Ed

EDIT: Sorry JamesCurtis I couldn't hear you I was typing.
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Fino
www.feroce.us
Member National Kit Car Club

[This message has been edited by Fino (edited 03-26-2006).]

I was one of the judges at the show this year. All the cars were looked at with the same scoring sheet. Everyone started out with 100 points. We had five judges looking at the car. I had paint and body, others had interior, eng compartment, wheels/tires/wheel wells, and front/rear area. Each judge looked at their area ONLY. Points were deducted by each judge as they found faults with EACH car. The sheets were turned in and the points were put into a computer. The chief judge went over all the sheets to look for any problems/mistakes. The car with the lowest point deduction was the silver coupe. When you look at this car, it was amazing to see. I do not know off hand what his final numbers were, but they were good enough to win the big trophy. Now that is not to say that you might or have to agree with the results. Yes the beautiful orange car in question was and is beautiful, but the eventual winner had the least amount of points deducted. No car ended up with 100 points.
When two cars are "perfect" (so to speak) you end up looking for a tiebreaker and that MAY be something as simple/stupid as a paint chip or an area not as clean as the other car. This might have been the case between best of show and first place.

I hope this helps explain how awards were awarded this year.

quote Originally posted by Fino: Jake Can you post more photos of the best of show car so I, maybe we can understand? There are no photos of that car except one. Maybe if I could see more I could understand better. Again I do not mean to be disrespectful but all I have to judge by are the photos on Pennock's and no one has posted any. There are a LOT of fantastic cars at that show that I have seen photos of. If it is concourse judging then I definitely understand. Thank you Ed

Here's a couple I took in the hotel parking lot when I got there.

He had an extremly clean sbc 350 with speed sensitive/adjustable power steering.

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 03-26-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Fino: Help me out I missed something. If this is the Best of Show winner, what happened to Alexandar's BOSS car and Archie's roadster and some other cars I have seen the photos of? I do not mean to be disrespectful but all I have to judge by are the photos on Pennock's. Ed

Many cars look perfect in pictures but when you look close it is a different thing. I have been very dissapointed with several nice cars I have seen here and then up close you see the workmanship issues. Still from 5-10 feet they are awesome cars Then if you have a really clean car you will get less points deducted

The judges did a great job looking over the cars this year. I'm glad it wasn't me !! Lot of hard work went out from each and every one of them. Marianna Martin was down on her hands and knees looking things over.I know that had to be very tiring and she's probab;y sore today. And Clem (LT188GT) showed me what he found using the mirror on my car , just so I would know if I looked at my score sheet. Hey , can't be more fair then that.I was guilty of not cleaning in places I should have , cost me points.
So , anyone could have won best of show , you just had to get less points deducted , and that takes alot of work and cleaning. That's why the silver coupe won .Look at the fitment on his decklid and you'll see what I'm talking about for example.
Great show guys , as usual. Was a little cool tho

quote Originally posted by Fino: Jake Can you post more photos of the best of show car so I, maybe we can understand? There are no photos of that car except one. Maybe if I could see more I could understand better. Again I do not mean to be disrespectful but all I have to judge by are the photos on Pennock's and no one has posted any. There are a LOT of fantastic cars at that show that I have seen photos of. If it is concourse judging then I definitely understand. Thank you Ed

Sorry all of my pictures are in my head.

Now, that's nice. Any more info on this mod?

Does the trunk open separately? Any pics of it being opened?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 03-26-2006).]

A few pics of the Blind Slalom event..... One run was particularly thrilling!

How it began...

and how it ended....

Thankfully, no Jeeps were harmed in the filming of this event.

The event winner preparing for his run..

Last minute instructions for the navigator...

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: I was one of the judges at the show this year. All the cars were looked at with the same scoring sheet. Everyone started out with 100 points. We had five judges looking at the car. I had paint and body, others had interior, eng compartment, wheels/tires/wheel wells, and front/rear area. Each judge looked at their area ONLY. Points were deducted by each judge as they found faults with EACH car. The sheets were turned in and the points were put into a computer. The chief judge went over all the sheets to look for any problems/mistakes. The car with the lowest point deduction was the silver coupe. When you look at this car, it was amazing to see. I do not know off hand what his final numbers were, but they were good enough to win the big trophy. Now that is not to say that you might or have to agree with the results. Yes the beautiful orange car in question was and is beautiful, but the eventual winner had the least amount of points deducted. No car ended up with 100 points. When two cars are "perfect" (so to speak) you end up looking for a tiebreaker and that MAY be something as simple/stupid as a paint chip or an area not as clean as the other car. This might have been the case between best of show and first place. I hope this helps explain how awards were awarded this year.

LT188GT

Thank you for taking the time explaining how you judged I DO appreciate it. That helps me understand much better. That is how cars are judged at ISCA. How many things can I find wrong with this car, not what makes it stand out, but the quality of the work involved with the build and attention to detail. This is the only method that can be used to judge ALL cars equal.
Question: Stock cars are very easy to judge but what about modified? Can you describe what a fault would be when parts are changed or modified? Probably this might not be an easy question to answer but please try.

Now ………..I like the Best of Show.
Ed

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Fino
www.feroce.us
Member National Kit Car Club

Friday Morning at DeLeon Springs - Sugar Mill

At the lighthouse

Is that a Zimmer with a 4.9? OH YEAH

quote Originally posted by Fino: LT188GT Question: Stock cars are very easy to judge but what about modified? Can you describe what a fault would be when parts are changed or modified? Probably this might not be an easy question to answer but please try. Now ………..I like the Best of Show. Ed

Lets use a Mustang hood scoop as an example. Some owners might just bolt on the scoop while others might glass it in. Now both can look good but on closer inspection you might find that the bolted on scoop has gaps along the seams. The glassed in scoop is less prone to have gaps and if so they are probably easier to fix when doing the installation.

Now this can also work both ways but it's a matter of judging for flaws. When I judged the paint and body this year, I looked at the perfect paint jobs then I judged the "perfect" paint jobs for flaws. The killer the year was the use of a mirror which I put to good use. The majority of my point deductions were the underside of the doors and the underside of the frame rails from the front tire all the way back to the rear tire.
The area under the exhaust and license plate were killers on a lot of cars.

The orange and the silver car were the exception as they were just about perfect in all respects in the paint department. As stated prior, all I looked at was paint and body and that was all. Other areas of the cars were looked at with a fine tooth comb but I do not know how they were scored.

I hope this answers your question. If not I am here to try again.

Good pics!

What was the total turnout attendence-wise?

Did I actually see pics of that wierd guy from Wisconsin?

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: Lets use a Mustang hood scoop as an example. Some owners might just bolt on the scoop while others might glass it in. Now both can look good but on closer inspection you might find that the bolted on scoop has gaps along the seams. The glassed in scoop is less prone to have gaps and if so they are probably easier to fix when doing the installation. Now this can also work both ways but it's a matter of judging for flaws. When I judged the paint and body this year, I looked at the perfect paint jobs then I judged the "perfect" paint jobs for flaws. The killer the year was the use of a mirror which I put to good use. The majority of my point deductions were the underside of the doors and the underside of the frame rails from the front tire all the way back to the rear tire. The area under the exhaust and license plate were killers on a lot of cars. The orange and the silver car were the exception as they were just about perfect in all respects in the paint department. As stated prior, all I looked at was paint and body and that was all. Other areas of the cars were looked at with a fine tooth comb but I do not know how they were scored. I hope this answers your question. If not I am here to try again.

Well I have ready a few of your posts on the judging and it appears the judges were looking for "perfect" concourse style cars.
Personally I feel that is not how the cars should should have been judged. Many of the people like to actually drive their cars and some drove a long distance to be at the show. So the cars are not going to be "perfect".
Some questions I'd like to ask are:
Were there different classes for cars?
Since you inspected the paint and body, was there any consideration for someone who had a 100% original paint and body vs. someone who had custom panels and a brand new paint job?

Granted I wasn't there and I don't know who won what, But just from the posts, it sounds like it's more of a concouse show than a regular car show.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Well I have ready a few of your posts on the judging and it appears the judges were looking for "perfect" concourse style cars. Personally I feel that is not how the cars should should have been judged. Many of the people like to actually drive their cars and some drove a long distance to be at the show. So the cars are not going to be "perfect". Some questions I'd like to ask are: Were there different classes for cars? Since you inspected the paint and body, was there any consideration for someone who had a 100% original paint and body vs. someone who had custom panels and a brand new paint job? Granted I wasn't there and I don't know who won what, But just from the posts, it sounds like it's more of a concouse show than a regular car show.

I think the best of show winner drove his car down from Ohio then cleaned it before it was judged.

Best of Show

Best Custom

Archies Rebody Roadster

Judges row

T-shirt Quilt

Sitting Seagull

anyone have more pics of this blue one with the wrap around spoiler?

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-27-2006).]

All cars were looked at with the same judging sheets regardless of what class you were in. Classes were determined by the form that you filled out when you registered the car. This was done by the chief judge. Classes were stock, custom, modified and re-body.
As for paint and body, the car was judged the same regardless of an 20 year old paint that has been taken well care of, or a brand new paint job that is a stock or a wild custom job. We looked for a clean, well shined, consistent, no overruns, no orange peel paint job.

The best of show winner DROVE his car to the show and started cleaning it at the hotel and also at the show.

[This message has been edited by LT188GT (edited 03-27-2006).]

Is there a way to see our score sheet? I know I had some things missing.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: Best Custom

Very nice! congrats to the owner for winning the show.

[This message has been edited by need help plz (edited 03-27-2006).]

I think this mod would be an excellent option for the Finale roadster or the ornge wide body. Lots of good ideas brewing at the Daytona show this yr.

That custom decklid belongs to Kris Munson. He's been playing with fiberglass again. He'll have to give any details , but I can tell you , it was a shortened wing , molded in and it has a double layer with venting in the rear section of the wing.Not finished , but more of his cool handiwork.

Other side of it.

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: All cars were looked at with the same judging sheets regardless of what class you were in. Classes were determined by the form that you filled out when you registered the car. This was done by the chief judge. Classes were stock, custom, modified and re-body. As for paint and body, the car was judged the same regardless of an 20 year old paint that has been taken well care of, or a brand new paint job that is a stock or a wild custom job. We looked for a clean, well shined, consistent, no overruns, no orange peel paint job. The best of show winner DROVE his car to the show and started cleaning it at the hotel and also at the show.

LT188GT

I hate to hound you but I still have questions.
I have over 10,000 miles on my car since I built it.

1. What about road damage, stones. I have a custom paint job and touch-up will still show. Will I be marked down if I have it clean, well shined, consistent, no overruns, no orange peel paint job.

2. Could you post a clean unused judging sheet of all areas of the car on the forum for us to view before the next show (Hopefully it will be judged).

LT188GT thank you for your patience

Ed

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Fino
www.feroce.us
Member National Kit Car Club

quote Originally posted by Fino: LT188GT I hate to hound you but I still have questions. I have over 10,000 miles on my car since I built it. 1. What about road damage, stones. I have a custom paint job and touch-up will still show. Will I be marked down if I have it clean, well shined, consistent, no overruns, no orange peel paint job. 2. Could you post a clean unused judging sheet of all areas of the car on the forum for us to view before the next show (Hopefully it will be judged). LT188GT thank you for your patience Ed

I'm with you on these points.
Like how many were driven to the show and are driven very often. Trailered low mile cars . . . . please. . . .
The garage queens should have EXTREMLY HIGH standards and should not be judged with the every day cars.
My $0.02.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fino:

LT188GT

2. Could you post a clean unused judging sheet of all areas of the car on the forum for us to view before the next show (Hopefully it will be judged).

LT188GT thank you for your patience

Ed

/QUOTE]

Ed

As of now we are not sure that there will not even be another Florida Fiero Weekend at Daytona. But if there is it will not be a judged event.

Frank Martin
Florida Fiero Council
Space Coast Fieros

Best of show car.

This car had many small details that were great. Along with a very well done small block, it had trunk lock removed & smoothed over w/remote opener, front emblem removed & holes filled in along with the word Pontiac on headlight door, round gas cap door removed & replaced with flush square door, you can see in the picture the backup lights added to the bumper pad along with the reflectors, driving lights added very nicely to the front bumper pads, tail lights changed to be solid red lights across the back, very different & well done vent on trunk lid & old vent panels filled in & many other things I can't remember. You have to really study the car to see all the things that have been done. Harry

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87 GT Maroon, Red Formula & White Formula

[This message has been edited by Dirty Harry (edited 03-27-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Dragon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Fino: LT188GT 2. Could you post a clean unused judging sheet of all areas of the car on the forum for us to view before the next show (Hopefully it will be judged). LT188GT thank you for your patience Ed /QUOTE] Ed As of now we are not sure that there will not even be another Florida Fiero Weekend at Daytona. But if there is it will not be a judged event. Frank Martin Florida Fiero Council Space Coast Fieros

THAT is a shame ..........Why?

Ed

Hi Everyone,
I got home ok no problems except lack of sleep, I just wanted to thank everyone for a great time, it was great to see all the Fieros at Daytona. here were a few of the pictures I took when I had a chance Old Lar kept me busy all weekend and thanks to his brother George for showing Dennis and me the sites. Hope to see you guys at the Dells this year.

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The Prezzz

quote Originally posted by Fino: 2. Could you post a clean unused judging sheet of all areas of the car on the forum for us to view before the next show (Hopefully it will be judged). Ed

I wasn't involved with this particular show, however I have been involved with the judging of the Northwest Fiero Festival for the last couple years. One thing about a judged show is its nearly impossible for everyone to be completely happy with the results. I think we've done a pretty good job on our show with a combination of things:

1. Judging sheets are available to everyone before the show so they know what the judges will be looking at
2. Judging is done by a third party whenever possible (we usually have a Pontiac club or similar for judging).
3. We also include a separate class for "Concours" cars. Rules for this class are clearly defined at least 6 months before the show. If there is a general consensus among show attendees to change the rules, the show committee will vote and the rules can be changed for the following year.

If anyone would like to make use of the rules, classes, and/or judging sheets we use for our show please feel free. All info can be found here:
http://www.nwfierofest.com/

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

Helmet 1978
Thank you for the judging sheet.

I think a Judge has to be thick skinned to be able to make it. You just can't make everyone happy.
The alternative is “participant vote” and that is just a popularity contest, everyone votes for their friend NOT the car. Small shows around here are loosing many great cars because there is a car club that votes for each other and they take all the awards home (they even stand in a circle and congratulate each other to rub it in.).
After asking questions to LT188GT I have learned a lot. Lets support the judges and accept their decisions. When I ask a question I don’t know the answer and LT188Gt has been very helpful. I think he knows I am NOT questioning his decision but the method in which he came up with to make it.

I think listen to the people and JUDGE shows only.

Ed
Edit: BTW I like the way you judge your shows.

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Fino
www.feroce.us
Member National Kit Car Club

[This message has been edited by Fino (edited 03-28-2006).]

Quote by Fino----1. What about road damage, stones. I have a custom paint job and touch-up will still show. Will I be marked down if I have it clean, well shined, consistent, no overruns, no orange peel paint job.

Yes you will loose points for stone chips. My car has a very good paint job that shines with no runs or orange peel. BUT I have a bunch of stone chips on the front end as I drive this car regularly. On the way to Daytona this year, I turned over 188,000+ miles. Most of my deductions were for paint.

Keep in mind that my judging is only 1/5 of the judging as stated before. The other judges could score a car extremely high (little or no deductions) which would basically present a winner even thou I deducted points for a not so nice paint job.