Well I am glad that Jack found someone that was willing to take his stuff as he has been trying to sell it for the last couple of years.
He must have sold the Cosworth 4 valve heads (or maybe he is keeping them) as he had 3 of them the last time I was out at his shop. I have a post on here, some time back (search for Huffaker), with pictures of all that stuff still on his shelves. However, it looks like you got the rest of his 4 cyl stuff and trannys
Cheers, Tim
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10:22 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Well I am glad that Jack found someone that was willing to take his stuff as he has been trying to sell it for the last couple of years.
He must have sold the Cosworth 4 valve heads (or maybe he is keeping them) as he had 3 of them the last time I was out at his shop. I have a post on here, some time back (search for Huffaker), with pictures of all that stuff still on his shelves. However, it looks like you got the rest of his 4 cyl stuff and trannys
Cheers, Tim
We talked about the Cosworth heads but he didn't have any timing gear sets for them so they are pretty useless to me. I would really have loved to get them if he had the timing sets though. He sold them to a guy in Puerto Rico. I may contact him regarding pistons.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-18-2005).]
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01:05 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Here are the gearsets I have. Keep in mind that I am keeping some for myself and not selling it all. sets sold on a first come first serve basis so email me or post here or PM me with your gear choices. I'll email back a confirmation or a request to alter certain gear choices.
1st gear sets with sprocket and shaft: Teeth, Ratio Quantity 14-34, 2.43:1 = 7 15-35, 2.33:1 = 2 15-33, 2.20:1 = 6 16-32, 2.00:1 = 3
Aluminum Billet Detent housings = 31 (not yet for sale until I know what is needed with them, but you can still use your stock steel detent.
Fully built transmission:
1 new in the box, "long" tranny with 3.94 ring and pinion, Top Speeds with 23.8" tires at 8000 RPM are: 1st = 2.43 59mph 2nd = 1.82 79mph 3rd = 1.47 98mph 4th = 1.18 121mph 5th = 1.04 139mph
1 used, "short" tranny, with 3.39 ring and pinion, Top Speeds with 23.8" tires at 8000 RPM are: 1st = 2.69 62mph 2nd = 2.00 83mph 3rd = 1.67 100mph 4th = 1.47 113mph 5th = 1.29 130mph
NOTE: if you have larger diameter tires then just remember that Circumferance is (2*Pi*R) and do the math to figure out your top speed.
Prices are as follows: 1st gear = $180 each 2nd-5th gears = $110 each Ring and Pinion = $300 each All used gears are half price
I'm selling the complete Used tranny as well. This cost $7200 to build and I'll sell it for $3200
I also have 1 Saenz Limited Slip Diff for sale and 8 factory original Getrag Spider sets complete in there housings
The factory spider gears are $40 each
but the Saenz LSD will set you back $1000 ($2500 when sold new, and these ARE new) only one is available for sale.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-19-2005).]
I was wondering, what gear ratios were used in the original Indy Pace Car transmissions? The only thing I could find was this from an old Autoweek article:
quote
The transaxle has a production case, but inside it is built more like a Hewland. The gears (all four of them), are straight-cut, non-synchronized, and according to Callies, capable of taking about 300HP; 42 ratios are available. Final drive is, by racing standards, a skyscraper-tall 3.66:1
I was wondering, what gear ratios were used in the original Indy Pace Car transmissions? The only thing I could find was this from an old Autoweek article:
Still drooling over the pics...
It was the 4-Speed Muncie and the final drive ratio of the stock Indy was 4.10:1 but I am not sure about the Real Pace Car. I have heard that it was 3.66 but I cn't confirm that and I don't know the individual gear ratios. I know that the car averaged 136 mph at 7200 rpm so we should be able to do some math from there.
I'll look up my reference guides and see what I can find.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-19-2005).]
Congrats on such a super find. You need to open your own museum for ususal fiero items. First the power steering unit and now this. I am green with envy.
Hey, with California shaking I'll offer my place in the solid midwest as storage. Jeff
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12:09 AM
Rhino88gt Member
Posts: 718 From: Maumelle, AR Registered: Jun 2003
Here are the gearsets I have. Keep in mind that I am keeping some for myself and not selling it all. sets sold on a first come first serve basis so email me or post here or PM me with your gear choices. I'll email back a confirmation or a request to alter certain gear choices.
1st gear sets with sprocket and shaft: Teeth, Ratio Quantity 14-34, 2.43:1 = 7
Aluminum Billet Detent housings = 31 (not yet for sale until I know what is needed with them, but you can still use your stock steel detent.
Prices are as follows: 1st gear = $180 each 2nd-5th gears = $110 each Ring and Pinion = $300 each All used gears are half price
I also have 1 Saenz Limited Slip Diff for sale and 8 factory original Getrag Spider sets complete in there housings
but the Saenz LSD will set you back $1000 ($2500 when sold new, and these ARE new) only one is available for sale.
Ok, I guess that 1st gear is made onto the shaft like stock, but 2nd through 5th are all interchangeable? Can any stock gear pairs be used with the racing input/output shafts? Dog engagement? Are the final drives straight cut? What exactly is an aluminum detent housing and what would it do for me? Difference between long and short transmissions?
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09:03 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by Rhino88gt: Now could we just swap the ring and pinion gears into a stock tranny???
I would think so. All you need to do is bolt the ring gear to the spider gear housing and put the drive gear on the end of the shaft.
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Ok, I guess that 1st gear is made onto the shaft like stock, but 2nd through 5th are all interchangeable? Can any stock gear pairs be used with the racing input/output shafts? Dog engagement? Are the final drives straight cut? What exactly is an aluminum detent housing and what would it do for me? Difference between long and short transmissions?
First gear is mounted on the shaft and has the corresponding counter gear with it. Hence, the higher price. BTW, the prices I am charging are 2/3 the factory price from Webster when available new...and these are new. 2nd through 5th are all up to you. It totally depends on what type of driving you will do. I expect that the stock gears will work on the shafts fine except for 1st gear which is integral to the shaft. And yes, all gears are straight cut. If by "Dog engagement" you mean clutchless, yes, you can. If you look at the picture on page one of the thread you will notice the tranny in the box has an aluminum block on the end of the gear housing. The stock Fiero tranny has a steel plate here. The Aluminum version is much stronger. This prevents the shafts from wanting to "twist" under force inside the case. Imagine taking two 12" steel bars in your hands. Hold them together parallel. Now hold them by the ends with each hand and twist your hands in the opposite direction. The bars tends to want to "barber pole" on you. This is what the detent prevents.
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11:18 AM
NotAFieroAnyLonger Member
Posts: 4413 From: 75762/Texas/USA Registered: Dec 2003
Give him my name. I'll be selling a lot of spare stuff as soon as I can inventory everything.
As for the rest of the goodies, I couldn't resist opening a few boxes. It was like Christmas. Check some of this stuff out:
4 complete sets of BRAND NEW COSWORTH Pistons (no 4 valve heads unfortunately, but I'm sure I can find buyers)
A set of pistons with "Superod" connecting rods already polished and balanced.
4 brand new, still in the box, .460 lift Intake, .420 lift exhaust Isky Cams
And for dessert, 3 Saenz Limited Slip Diffs!!!! :wow:. (Saenz makes the diffs for REAL Indy race cars) I am not kidding when I say these are worth $1000 each!
holy crap! look at those Rods, they look like they are built for 1000+ HP, I have seen my share of 500 HP 4 cylinder rods....have built several engines with them, but I have NEVER seen anything like that, I'm in shock!
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07:44 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
holy crap! look at those Rods, they look like they are built for 1000+ HP, I have seen my share of 500 HP 4 cylinder rods....have built several engines with them, but I have NEVER seen anything like that, I'm in shock!
I'm pretty sure those are aluminum rods. Bigger physically than steel rods, but not necessarily stronger.
Nate
------------------ My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build. You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped mine's mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.
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01:35 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7543 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Man you must feel like you found the holy grail of Fiero dreamers everyewhere. you have man. congratulations, i bet you cracked open a bottle of your finest when you unloaded all that, and if you didn't you should have, wow!
If nobody else has asked yet, I would like to buy that Superduty Shortblock for my DGP widebody Turbo Fiero. It has a SD head and intake, but the shortblock is a stock duke, bleh. I would also buy a set of heavy duty Rods, pistons, and a cam from you if/when you are ready to sell. Please keep me on your list man.
Congrats again on what has got to be the biggest EVER cache of original Fiero Racing parts in private owner history!
Michael
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11:56 AM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
Does this mean you are ressurecting that dissassembled Indy you have in your driveway?!
Man that would make that cars history almost as colorfull as the original pacer. talk about back from the dead with a vengence! nice score
No, we determined that we couldn't be sure we could straighten the frame. Yeah, it would be a great save, but I will most likely build it on an 88 coupe frame.
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03:42 PM
Kelvin Vivian Member
Posts: 1233 From: San Jose, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2001
Man you must feel like you found the holy grail of Fiero dreamers everyewhere. you have man. congratulations, i bet you cracked open a bottle of your finest when you unloaded all that, and if you didn't you should have, wow!
If nobody else has asked yet, I would like to buy that Superduty Shortblock for my DGP widebody Turbo Fiero. It has a SD head and intake, but the shortblock is a stock duke, bleh. I would also buy a set of heavy duty Rods, pistons, and a cam from you if/when you are ready to sell. Please keep me on your list man.
Congrats again on what has got to be the biggest EVER cache of original Fiero Racing parts in private owner history!
Michael
Thanks Monkey,
I've got other plans for the shortblock but I'll keep you in mind for other stuff. I have plenty of spare rods and pistons.
Kelvin,
You'll have to come by one day when I'm working on the cars for a look.
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10:15 AM
PFF
System Bot
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
And for dessert, 3 Saenz Limited Slip Diffs!!!! :wow:. (Saenz makes the diffs for REAL Indy race cars) I am not kidding when I say these are worth $1000 each!
oh what a tease - I can hear it now "haha, you'll never get one of these"
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12:44 PM
ambfiero Member
Posts: 386 From: In here its like living in goonville Registered: Jan 2003
Great find Toddster; I have always been a huge fan of the super duty and its performance. I was only 8 when the Fiero came out, sometimes I feel robbed because so many of the forum members were of a age they could buy one and enjoy it during the 80's. I hear stories of FOCOA shows, trips to the factory, and BOOKS galore filled with fiero facts. Now most of that is a memory, sometimes you can find pieces of the cars history on ebay but it comes with a price. And sometimes you find people who post wonderful finds such as yours (almost like hitting the lottery). Its people like you that are able to share some of this great cars history by doing extensive legwork and most importantly follow-through. So I like many others here thank you!!!!
I plan on doing a engine swap and making a drag car in the future and have always wanted to keep the mechanics true to the fiero but always got concerned when it comes to the transmission. You have some of the best built parts for our current configurations; any thoughts on keeping some of these items to have someone reproduce them? Keep us posted!!!!!!
------------------ www.centralohfiero.org In loving memory of Harold Hummel (PFF 4WHEEL) 1936-2004
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01:28 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
The gears are for race cars only. These are NOT synchromesh as I've been learning. The site above shows how the dogs are substituted for the synchros. Not very fun for the street but oh baby you can jam through the gears on the race track I understand. Looking forward to trying.
Sad to say that unless you already have a race prepped Getrag these gears of of little use to you. I will be building a few more trannies with these gears and hopefully replicating them for the serious racers but for the street guys I'm sorry to say that you're out of luck with these...with the POSSIBLE exception of the final drive and the LSD. I will look into replicating them for improved street performance.
Stay tuned.
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06:46 PM
Jun 22nd, 2005
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by Toddster: I would think so. All you need to do is bolt the ring gear to the spider gear housing and put the drive gear on the end of the shaft.
Negative. In a factory transmission, the FD pinion is integral with the output shaft. Changing FD's requires disassembling the output cluster, which requires a 15 ton press. Reassembly requires said press AND an oven. To clarify, the final drives are straight cut as well?
quote
First gear is mounted on the shaft and has the corresponding counter gear with it. Hence, the higher price. BTW, the prices I am charging are 2/3 the factory price from Webster when available new...and these are new. 2nd through 5th are all up to you. It totally depends on what type of driving you will do. I expect that the stock gears will work on the shafts fine except for 1st gear which is integral to the shaft. And yes, all gears are straight cut. If by "Dog engagement" you mean clutchless, yes, you can. If you look at the picture on page one of the thread you will notice the tranny in the box has an aluminum block on the end of the gear housing. The stock Fiero tranny has a steel plate here. The Aluminum version is much stronger. This prevents the shafts from wanting to "twist" under force inside the case. Imagine taking two 12" steel bars in your hands. Hold them together parallel. Now hold them by the ends with each hand and twist your hands in the opposite direction. The bars tends to want to "barber pole" on you. This is what the detent prevents.
I understand the forces at work in the transmission. I saw the aluminum housing on the end of the transmission in that picture. I figured that reinforcement of the bearing bosses at that end of the transmission was its function, but calling is a "detent housing" is counter-intuitive, as it does not house any detents. The cover that houses the detents is inside the bellhousing, UNLESS the detents have been moved to the outer end of the case by race-specific shift rails. Is this so?
The gears are for race cars only. These are NOT synchromesh as I've been learning. The site above shows how the dogs are substituted for the synchros. Not very fun for the street but oh baby you can jam through the gears on the race track I understand. Looking forward to trying.
Sad to say that unless you already have a race prepped Getrag these gears of of little use to you. I will be building a few more trannies with these gears and hopefully replicating them for the serious racers but for the street guys I'm sorry to say that you're out of luck with these...with the POSSIBLE exception of the final drive and the LSD. I will look into replicating them for improved street performance.
Stay tuned.
Now you know what "dog engagement" means. What I was trying to clarify was whether or not any of these parts would be compatible with factory gears. I infer from what you have said that this is not the case. Thus the tallest 5th gear available is 0.94, which is about the same as 4th in the factory box.
Pictures of the gearsets would help. A LOT.
Sounds like you've never had a factory box apart. For future reference, 1st, 2nd and R input gears are integral to the factory input shaft (integral = made from one piece of steel). The 3rd and 4th input roll on needle bearings on the input shaft and the 3-4 synchronizer assembly presses onto a set of splines between the 3rd and 4th gear needle bearing races. 5th input is a heat shrink press fit onto a journal just inside the reverse input gear. The final drive pinion is integral with the output shaft. The 1st & 2nd output gears ride on needle bearings on the output shaft. 1st gear also has a thrust bearing between it and the FD pinion teeth. That thrust bearing is a needle bearing with the 3.61 FD's and a thrust washer with the 3.94 FD's. The 3.94 setup also uses a roller bearing under the 1st output as opposed to a needle bearing. The 3 & 4 output gears are a single unit that is a heat shrink press fit on two journals just outside the 2nd gear output. The 5/R synchro assy presses onto splines just outside of that. The detents that prevent the shift rails from engaging more than one gear at a time are under the rubber hockey-puck-shaped cover inside the bellhousing. The steel cover at the end of the transmission only houses the lubrication troughs that deliver oil to the insides of the input and output shafts. These shafts are hollow and small quantity of oil that is delivered inside them lubricates the needles on which the gears turn when they are not engaged.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-22-2005).]
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07:14 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I am still interested in the used 3.29 Getrag short tranny for my '88 racer.
I mentioned in an earlier post about straight-cut, non-synchro gears beeing unsuitable for the street. Besides being "difficult" to shift, they are LOUD!! I also hope that the term "racing trans" isn't understood to be for the drag strip, either. They often require a double clutch to shift, which isn't the fastest way between gears!!
Todd, you might also post some of the non-street suitable stuff on the FieroRacingList, those guys would know how to use and appreciate your fabulous score!!
Will, I don't call it a "detent" housing, the manufacturer does. That is right from the inventory list from Webster. I actually have split the Getrag case a few times but only to replace a few races, bearings, and diffs. I've never gone into the gears and I frankly have never had much of a desire to learn too much about tranny's before now. Hence, I am trying to get a quick education so that I can answer some of the many PMs and emails I am getting about whether or not you can use these gears for various applications and how it all goes together. Any input about parts availability and assembly would be appreciated.
Cooter, I have plans for the blocks I have already but if I come across another I'll keep you in mind.
87 Fiero SE
carry on 
