I have been toying around with air intake stuff on the 4.9 for over a year now. One of the things I kinda was looking for was a way to route some of the bad stuff under it. In the same way many engine swaps have covers or large items that cover up all the wires and such.

Well Here is the mock up (functioning mockup) of what I am working on. So far I am pretty happy with it. Cleaner look. Now that it is in place I can start moving and routing hoses under it.

There are other setups out there, but most interfere with standard trans especially Isuzu shift cables.

Well here is enough. The last few are just showing the nice bright red trans under it all.

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 07-13-2006).]

Lookin good

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 07-13-2006).]

Thankyou

Must have been a total brain fart.

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 07-13-2006).]

That's alot of plumbing Capt. Hmmm..... red 'Chevy' breather with a Caddy hat.

I kind of prefer my solution though. (just a bias) It gives a lot more fresh air.



Arn

Not to knock you down but with Mikes swap i noticed that puppy sure loves to draw air... Isnt that section where it tapers down kinda small for a V8? I wouldnt run anything smaller then 3.5 - 4" on my swap... let alone the V8

Be worth some dyno testing. What youve done HAS to be better then putting a filter right on the top or somthing similar that just draws in hot air!!

------------------
"Raced That, Wrecked Better" ~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000
US Armored Cavalry - Fox 2/81 - Death By 120 - 1 Shot 1 Kill

3800 SuperCharged Series II Swap, ZZP Intercooler, Fastback Swap

People make too much of a big deal over hot and cold air. A filter right on top requires less pressure to flow air than a filter at the end of a tunnel. So the air will be hot but you can flow it more freely. What do you think happens to cold air once it enters a hot intake chamber? Pressure works in every direction. As the air expands as it warms, it will slow down the "cold" air coming in as well...

Horse power from an intake is about more flow and velocity than it is about air temperature. For instance, on the early LS1 motors in Firebirds and Camaros, one of the tricks to make a plain LS1 perform more like the "Ram Air" version is to remove a restrictor plate from the air filter assembly. The rest was tuning and exhaust. The Ram Air hood just gave you more drag at high speeds... My brother's 98 TA 6 speed dynoed at 305 rwhp. He did a 12.92 on the 1/4 mile. It was not the "ram air" version. It was stock with the restrictor removed and an exhaust cutout infront of the muffler. That motor was rated at 305 gross hp from the factory and the "Ram Air" version at 320 or 325 iirc. These motors dyno at ~280 rwhp completely stock. Again, I'm referring to the early LS1's. Newer ones are rated at the original Vette's 340 hp rating...which dyno @ ~305 rwhp... Coincidence?

That being said, I like the simple creativity that Capt Fiero took to hook up an air filter to his 4.9 without making too many custom mods. It may not be ideal but it gets his motor running. Afterall, affordability and simplicity is what makes a 4.9 attractive, not high performance numbers.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-15-2006).]

Not to sound like a rude... but do you KNOW what your talking about?

Hot and cold air makes a HUGE difference. Your average air temp in your engine bay is WAY hotter then what it would heat up to through your intake manifold. I would love for you to try a dyno run in with your car at full operating temp and with hood down after sitting for 10 minutes. I garentee it wouldnt be as good as if that car had a cold air intake...
Basically what your saying would also be that i should over drive my blower but NOT use a intercooler cause hot air makes no difference AND putting that intercooler in there would only restrict the flow... Couldnt be farther from the truth!
Ram air IS a joke... i never said it wasnt. Youll never build up enough pressure at speeds for it to make enough of a difference. However COLD AIR intakes are NOT a joke.
I am sure that his intake IS better then a filter right on the intake. BUT it would deffinetly bennifit from some larger tubing. It could draw allot more air more freely through it.

a 10 degree drop in air intake temperature is a 1% increase in horsepower. Doesnt sound like much does it? Now take an open element air cleaner under the hood of a car at full operating temp. Itll be sucking in probably 180 degree air, plus or minus depending on car, engine size, etc. Now incase that aircleaner and run tubing to outside air, say its 80 degrees outside. You just droped intake air temps by 100 degrees, thats a 10% power increase. Thats 20 horsepower in a 200hp car, 50hp in a 500hp car. Yeah actual temperatures of the intake manifold will increase the overall temperature of that incoming air, but it doesnt stay in the intake long enough to heat back up to the temps it would have been without the cold air intake. You will still be pulling in cooler air and still increasing power.

------------------

Fiero- mild 2.9 160hp
Caprice- wild 383 500hp
--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: it? Now take an open element air cleaner under the hood of a car at full operating temp. Itll be sucking in probably 180 degree air, plus or minus depending on car, engine size, etc. Now incase that aircleaner and run tubing to outside air, say its 80 degrees outside.

I think your estimate is too conservative...First of most thermostats are 195F and the engine is probably hotter than that by about 10 to 15 degrees. On a nice 95 degree day like we had today add in the sun, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 250F under the decklid. Even that 95F air is cool compared to that.

Looks very functional just me 2 cents. I know first hand that the V6 airfilter box even with a K&N air filter is too restrictive and hurting engine performance, proven at the track myself. Second info I learned which may not have any use with a 4.9 is that on our 3800 s/c we ran an airfilter directly on the throttle body with no plumbing into the wheel well, Next weekend I had installed 4 inch pipe out to the wheel well like stock and I went no faster on the 1/4.

Just sharing some info, I don't mean to take anything away from this thread.

Pete

------------------

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: a 10 degree drop in air intake temperature is a 1% increase in horsepower. Doesnt sound like much does it? Now take an open element air cleaner under the hood of a car at full operating temp. Itll be sucking in probably 180 degree air, plus or minus depending on car, engine size, etc. Now incase that aircleaner and run tubing to outside air, say its 80 degrees outside. You just droped intake air temps by 100 degrees, thats a 10% power increase. Thats 20 horsepower in a 200hp car, 50hp in a 500hp car. Yeah actual temperatures of the intake manifold will increase the overall temperature of that incoming air, but it doesnt stay in the intake long enough to heat back up to the temps it would have been without the cold air intake. You will still be pulling in cooler air and still increasing power.

Thanks for putting some prospective on that... I agree that your numbers are kinda conservative. With exhaust temp and everything under hood of fiero its like cracking open an oven when you open the decklid.

When someone sticks a thermometer behind an intake valve and tells me the air temp is much different then I will retract my statements.

Theories are wonderful but real world applications are better.

I suppose after driving or sitting at idle for 20 minutes that the temperature of the cold air tube that is sitting over your cross-over tube and downpipe inside your hot engine compartment is still going to be whatever the outside air temp is...

In my dyno, I could have left the egr tube open on the cross-over pipe and dynoed higher than 149.8 rwhp...but what would that tell me? I certainly couldn't drive around that way...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-16-2006).]

There is a practical limit on the air temperature theory.

I don't recall engines in Canada showing significantly higher hp in the winter. So, you have a 300 hp engine at the track on a 90* July day, and you then start it at 30* below zero in February. I doubt you'll get 120% more hp, or in fact any more at all given the variables (if it will actually start ).

I used a CRX intake and I was told the aluminum would heat up the air [not true], that it did not flow better [not true] and that it was pretty loud [absolutely true] I think it helped the engine but I don't have dyno figures to prove it.

As for the K&N allowing particles in, you have to look at the broader picture. Look at the smoke particles entering via the EGR system. Look at the carbon particles on the valves. The wee bits of dust going through the filter are easily digested by the engine. Sure you can argue that theoretically an engine running on clean air lasts longer, but not in the real world application.

The Fiero air cleaner will support a limited amount of CFM. If the engine doesn't need more you're ok with it. I think the air cleaner the Capt came up with is very inventive and should work ok. I still maintain cool air works better, but, I am sure somebody will disagree. BTW cool gasoline works better too, and racers have been using cold cans for years. I just don't know how you cool the fuel in a MPFI system. But that is TOT.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: There is a practical limit on the air temperature theory. Arn

I'm sure, but I have a thermometer in my car and I Measured a temperature in the car of 150F after it had been sitting in the sun. I'm sure it's not linear, but it gets pretty hot under the hood.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: Horse power from an intake is about more flow and velocity than it is about air temperature.

From another forum:

quote On the contrary, I have never seen more than 0.5 kPa inlet depression measured ahead of the throttle, which would lose you maybe 1% of the charge, yet it would be easy to lose about 10% charge density by picking up hot air rather than cold. Cheers Greg Locock

Hey all, seeing as this was my thread, maybe I should post back in it. (snicker)

Ok

Cold Air does make better power than hot air. That is a Dyno proven thing. That is the reason "cold air intakes" are such the big deal. Everything from Race cars to Grocery getter Honda's.

As for my setup. I have a Holley side scoop on there with the waterseperator removed and piped right to the K&N filter in the can. Trust me it is much better than my old setup which was.

Uhm, Nothing. I had the Caddy Air box sitting on top of the engine open to atmosphere. No air cleaner, no ducting. It drew its air from directly above the exhaust manifold.

No filter no nothing.

This is a pretty decent improvement over that. The design was pretty close to a fellow club member that is running a modified 4.5 and an Auto. He has a similar setup but routed differently as he used the stock Caddy Cross pipe with the stock auto from the caddy. I had to make room for the custom crossover pipe and Isuzu Cables.

Why is there always someone that has to argue the sun is not hot and the world is not round?

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Why is there always someone that has to argue the sun is not hot and the world is not round?

I don't know but the sun is not that hot, (the wings of the space shuttle during reentry are hotter) and the Earth isn't round, it's an ablate spheroid.

I like your cold air intake. I'm working on a design for the 4.9 that will be entirely unique.

The CRX intake tube works better than the stock intake tube because of the smooth flow of air. The air is allowed to flow fast into the intake. If it's aluminum, it will heat up more so than the stock rubber and plastic set up... But yet it still makes more power because everything is smooth. On the stock tube, air has to hit the top of the canister and then spread 90 degrees through the filter...not very smooth...

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Hey all, seeing as this was my thread, maybe I should post back in it. (snicker) Ok As for my setup. I have a Holley side scoop on there with the waterseperator removed and piped right to the K&N filter in the can. Trust me it is much better than my old setup which was. Why is there always someone that has to argue the sun is not hot and the world is not round?

Now that makes sense. Air from the side like the design intended, and improved flow through the air cleaner box.

What would happen if you insulated the plastic pipe sections?

Arn

quote Originally posted by The Fieromaster: Not to sound like a rude... but do you KNOW what your talking about? Hot and cold air makes a HUGE difference. Your average air temp in your engine bay is WAY hotter then what it would heat up to through your intake manifold. I would love for you to try a dyno run in with your car at full operating temp and with hood down after sitting for 10 minutes. I garentee it wouldnt be as good as if that car had a cold air intake... Basically what your saying would also be that i should over drive my blower but NOT use a intercooler cause hot air makes no difference AND putting that intercooler in there would only restrict the flow... Couldnt be farther from the truth! Ram air IS a joke... i never said it wasnt. Youll never build up enough pressure at speeds for it to make enough of a difference. However COLD AIR intakes are NOT a joke. I am sure that his intake IS better then a filter right on the intake. BUT it would deffinetly bennifit from some larger tubing. It could draw allot more air more freely through it.

The intercooler is there to cool the entire intake (or I should say, keep the exhaust heat from directly affecting the intake) and only needed on motors over 10 or 14 psi (forget which) because when you compress air, it gets hotter. Air that is too hot mixing with fuel will pre-ignite. Remember, with a turbo, you now have a metal-to-metal connection from your hot exhaust to your "cold" intake. The intake doesn't stay cold (I should say cool enough to not cause detonation) for too long once you start making boost. You actually loose efficiency from a turbo by adding and intercooler but gain it back by being able to run more boost.

For instance, take 2 motors with the same turbo set-up running the same boost. Add an intercooler to one but don't add boost. The non-intercooled one will make more power.

the efficency is lost because in my original statement, a long intake tube is not as good as a short one for horse power... adding an intercooler lengthens your overall intake tube length

One real world application of this is simply looking at an LS1 in an F-body. The huge square air filter sits right infront of the throttle body with the most minimal of tube length between it...and we do know those LS1's like to make top end hp, don't we? Compare it to an older L98 setup. A popular mod on the LT1's and L98's is to attach an air filter directly to the throttle body.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: The intercooler is there to cool the entire intake (or I should say, keep the exhaust heat from directly affecting the intake) and only needed on motors over 10 or 14 psi (forget which) because when you compress air, it gets hotter. Air that is too hot mixing with fuel will pre-ignite. Remember, with a turbo, you now have a metal-to-metal connection from your hot exhaust to your "cold" intake. The intake doesn't stay cold (I should say cool enough to not cause detonation) for too long once you start making boost. You actually loose efficiency from a turbo by adding and intercooler but gain it back by being able to run more boost. For instance, take 2 motors with the same turbo set-up running the same boost. Add an intercooler to one but don't add boost. The non-intercooled one will make more power. the efficency is lost because in my original statement, a long intake tube is not as good as a short one for horse power... adding an intercooler lengthens your overall intake tube length One real world application of this is simply looking at an LS1 in an F-body. The huge square air filter sits right infront of the throttle body with the most minimal of tube length between it...and we do know those LS1's like to make top end hp, don't we? Compare it to an older L98 setup. A popular mod on the LT1's and L98's is to attach an air filter directly to the throttle body.

Dude you couldnt be more full of $hit if you were a PORT-O-POTTY!!!! Capt Fiero is right... Cold air is better.

I cant believe you actually think that the SAME turboed motors would make LESS power WITH an intercooler?!?!

This is DIRECTLY OFF OF ZZ PERFORMANCE WEBSITE!! (quote from SS - short stack intercooler)
"Dyno testing on a motor with exhaust and 3.5" pulley, we made 4 additional HP simply by adding the SS IC. That's at the same timing. By eliminating KR or dropping in pulley size with the addition of the IC, look for gains around 30HP."

...But they must be full of it... or your SOOO much smarter then them...

So what about INTENSE RACING... a quote DIRECTLY OFF THEIR SITE...
" Our test car showed a gain of 11.0 WHP (13.8 crankshaft horsepower) with the addition of our intercooler kit AND NO OTHER CHANGES."

...but they too must know NOTHING in compairison to YOU... cause your so smart!


Well i say i hope you start running with your air filter in your engine bay... maybe do a bunch of mods to it too... so when you Pre-detonate your engine to pieces the rest of us on here your arguing with can giggle at you like little school children.

Instead of reading an ad, try reading a book.

Go buy a big piece of drawing cardboard. Roll it up into a tube with 2" in diameter. Breath through it. Cut the length down in half. Breath through it again. What was easier?

Typically an intercooler adds alot of plumbing length to an intake stream. If the length added can be kept low then you can see a slight benefit (as in your 4 hp, is it gross, is it net?). Notice the mention of a pulley there. That means they are upping the boost on the super-charger to get that 30hp gain. That's what intercoolers really let you do.

quote " Our test car showed a gain of 11.0 WHP (13.8 crankshaft horsepower) with the addition of our intercooler kit AND NO OTHER CHANGES."

keyword: KIT
enough said there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler

quote Additionally, intercoolers help to increase the total amount of boost possible without causing engine knocking.

As I said before, the main benefit of intercoolers are keeping the airtemps down enough to run the extra 3, 7, x pounds of boost.

So if you think intercoolers are so wonderful, why don't you add one to your naturally aspirated motor and tell us how much more horsepwer you aren't feeling?


Try reading about pressure drop and how a turbo will have to work harder to make the same amount of boost by adding or changing an intercooler... That's why they are "kits". The guess work is usually done in advance for people like you who just like to read ads.

read this: http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239740

quote Well theoretically an intercooler never gets any colder than the ambient air passing over it. The reason its used on turbocharged vehicles is because the compressor wheel on the turbo creates heat as it spins and in turn transfers it to the air its compressing, the job of the intercooler, at least an air to air intercooler is to cool the compressed air down to atleast ambient before it enters the intake manifold. SO, if the filter is already injesting air that is at ambient already it's not going to get any cooler. So that would basically make it a REALLY expensive and complex CAI.

The main issue is heat that will cause pre-detonation. Now that the temps are lowered to (still pretty freaking hot) you can up the boost again and get a little more power. Adding length to an intake stream will always reduce peak power.

Now since you are so smart, answer me this. 2 engines both make 200rwhp. One is a 3.4L and one is an SC3800 through the same transmission and everything else equal. Which one is burning more fuel? Which one is less efficient? Which one is making more horsepower?

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-18-2006).]

First off your pressure drop through an intercooler is TOTALY not enough to be significant enough for it NOT to be worth it...

Although you will argue that the 3.4L TDC (cause you wont see 200 on a push rod 3.4 stock) makes more power and more efficiently i am not arguing. Then again the 3800 makes 240hp so your compairing apples to oranges. But yes IF that were a true scenario 3800 driving the blower loses some power, its unneficient. BUT much more easy to upgrade. Using your words, adding a intercooler to remove KR you can up the boost change the timing and get more power.

What does this argument have to do with anything about COLD AIR? Do you HAVE winter where your from? Everyones car runs way better in the winter. I dont see how you can be so denying cold air.

Also i never said that larger intake tubing was BAD.... So i dont know what your cardboard tube point is. I said on my FIRST POST that the tubing should be a bit bigger. But as for your point with the cardboard tube... call me when you can move 500CFM with your lungs. lol.

Oh and since your a fan of Wikipedia HERE is what they say about COLD AIRS effect on engines...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_air_intake

"All cold air intakes operate on the principle of increasing the amount of oxygen available for combustion with fuel. Because cooler air has more density for a given volume, cold air intakes generally work by providing cooler air from outside the hot engine bay."

Air is part of what you need to make fire... oxygen is an oxidizer along with other components in the atmosphere. Oxidizer supports the combustion of fuel.
Cold air is dense air... there is MORE air availible to support the burning process... how can you argue against that?

Or are you one of those people who belives Nitrous Oxide is flammable.. ive meet a FEW people that think that, or they think it COOLS the air (not enough to make 100hp thats for sure)

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 07-18-2006).]

2 3.4 pushrod motors have dynoed ~200rwhp, both set up by Oreif. A stock 240hp SC3800 dynoes at a hair over 200rwhp. Oreif's 3.4 did 227 crank HP but made the same rwhp. The supercharger increases the gross hp of the motor but the extra drag brings it back down some. You can't make hp without giving something up. With an intercooler, you lose some top end to lower temps enough to get it back by adding extra boost. There is no such thing as free horsepower except where inefficiencies exist. Things such as removing the extra casting from Fiero manifolds are considered free hp, that's about as good as it gets for free hp. An intercooler is not free horsepower otherwise cars would come with them stock and so would naturally aspirated motors. Get a clue.

My arguement against that is like I said in my second post:

When someone sticks a thermometer behind an intake valve and tells me the temperature is different from an engine with a "cold air" intake tube vs. a filter infront of the throttle body during normal operation, I will retract my statements.

The gas formula in the winter is different. There is less O2 in the winter air. Get a clue. No one dynos a cold engine, what would be the point. Stop working with theory and get back to the real world.

Oh, thanks for the chemistry lesson. You did forget to mention that combustion requires heat and the more is produced via combustion, the better the burn and power and fuel efficiency go up as a high % of the fuel is burned. So via your theory, all the power gained from ice cold air would be robbed by the huge altenator required to power the ignition system required to produce such a hot spark to ignite that ice cold fuel and air.

Like I said, you only need to keep the incoming air cool enough not to pre-ignite. Too cool and you have to replace other parts that will cost you power in other ways.

"Cold Air Intakes" are a gimmick. Any gains they provide are because they usually allow for a faster and easier flow of air into the intake, not because of air temperature. A long intake tube in an engine compartment will heat up. Now you force that "cold air" through a longer and now hot intake stream just so you can brag about your shiny new CAI. The CRX cai works well in a Fiero because the stock system sucks. Even punching a hole in the water separator makes the air hit the top of the canister where the filter is and then spread 90 degrees through the filter. I'm also willing to wager that the cai kit the Fiero Store used to sell outperforms the CRX CAI since it has a much shorter tube.

In the end, your CAI is providing cooler air until your engine compartment has reached it's normal operating temperature. Arns85GT provides REAL cold air all the time.

How many motors have you built and dynoed? I'm on #4, here's 2 3.4's DYNOED http://www.geocities.com/lou_dias/Fiero.html and I'm currently doing a 3400 block swap.

I see you have an SC3800 swap done. Have you dynoed it? Buy an intercooler, no kit. Do the plumbing required to get the air out of the sc and into the tb yourself and then dyno it again with no other changes what-so-ever. You'll have all the proof you need one way or the other.


ps,
here's a quote from your own WIKI reference:

quote The best cold-air intakes are optimized for a specific engine application, providing increased airflow at ambient temperature and raising power at all engine speeds.

It's the rate of flow that matters, not the temp. Ask yourself this: if it could substantially keep the air cool to even a bit below ambient (which is theoretically impossible) but slowed down the rate of flow by 15%, would it still make more power? I think you know the answer.

let me now give you a math lesson...
your SC moves x amount of air per second into an intake stream with y amount of volume
if you add an intercooler to that stream, you've increased the volume
you have just decreased your potential max boost pressure with no other changes
it will also take longer to build boost if it was a turbo (can you say lag?)

since you assume I think NOx is flammable, I will assume you think a 160 degree thermostat helps performance...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-18-2006).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: The gas formula in the winter is different. There is less O2 in the winter air. Get a clue. No one dynos a cold engine, what would be the point. Stop working with theory and get back to the real world.

I have never heard that O2 is less in the winter, only that the air is denser. Where can I find out about this some more, and I think I have a clue. I just want my facts correct.

Winter gas contains oxygenates and stuff to help the gasoline evaporate better since this is harder in the winter...because a hot combustion chamber is a good thing. Without those oxygenates, there would be less air for us to breathe because cars would suck it up. Alot of oxygen comes from sealife and plants. Plants don't fair so well in the winter and tiny bubbles can't escape from frozen ponds...

http://www.4cleanair.org/BoutiqueFuelsReport.pdf#search='winter%20gasoline'

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-18-2006).]

I did something similar to mine using a flex duct from a late 80s Buick 3800 N.A. mass flow intake tube and a similar part from a 5.0 Ford sedan. The two parts were joined with a short piece of thin wall tubing in the middle. Works pretty good and lends a nice look to the engine bay. The trans is a getrag 5 spd.



Add other picture I somehow lost in the translation

[This message has been edited by 87convert (edited 07-19-2006).]

I do like the look of that, but it unfortunately won't work for me.

I would like to see a further back pic of the engine bay though.

------------------
85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: I see you have an SC3800 swap done. Have you dynoed it? Buy an intercooler, no kit. Do the plumbing required to get the air out of the sc and into the tb yourself and then dyno it again with no other changes what-so-ever. You'll have all the proof you need one way or the other. since you assume I think NOx is flammable, I will assume you think a 160 degree thermostat helps performance...

What are you talking about... I HAVE an intercooler... the 3800 has a ROOTS BLOWER. With what your saying about blower before intercooler you must be thinking of a Ford setup or a Cintrifugal charger?!? I HAVE an intercooler... just havent installed it yet. It sits UNDER the blower. Between it and the intake manni... its water to air. Drops air about 100 some degrees.

No i DONT think 160* stat will do ANYTHING for you. Specially if your cars PCM wasnt programmed to RUN at 160*.

capt i can never see the pics you post... dunno why.

You must be connecting on some sort of secure connection IE company network, or some network that blocks port 8080 all my pics are hosted on my personal server using a pair of very nice new fast Belkin routers. The draw back is port 80 is used for remote admin and I can't find a way around it. As soon as I do the club site and pics will start showing up all around the internet.

I need a replacment ASAP. But neither myself nore the club can really affored a $100 plus router that I would need to run my networks at home. I club member just gave me an ols Linksys that I am at this moment giving a shot at working, however I think it has a major probelm. It looks nice but when you have all 4 chanells bliking randomly and only 2 ports. (one wan and one output port) it should not be doing that. I can't even keep a connection going long enough to to get it running. I think something internally is bad.
If you wish send me a PM and I will send you a backdoor to go in and look at pic directorys using port 21.

David

quote Originally posted by The Fieromaster: What are you talking about... I HAVE an intercooler... the 3800 has a ROOTS BLOWER. With what your saying about blower before intercooler you must be thinking of a Ford setup or a Cintrifugal charger?!? I HAVE an intercooler... just havent installed it yet. It sits UNDER the blower. Between it and the intake manni... its water to air. Drops air about 100 some degrees. No i DONT think 160* stat will do ANYTHING for you. Specially if your cars PCM wasnt programmed to RUN at 160*.

Roots style will definitely cause you to lose boost by adding that, however since it's water to air you will benefit from it but not like someone calculated above. Water to air is more efficient. We were talking about air-to-air aka "a really expensive cold-air setup".

Anyway, do you have a dyno of your current setup? Also, is all your planning is to add that intercooler or is there more to it like a pulley change which will be required to get the boost back up to stock levels (at which point you would see the small gains and higher with more boost obviously)? Like I said, these are sold as kits. Chances are, some tuning is involved as well...

On my 4.9 I had a muffler shop bend a piece of 3 1/2 tubing to fit from the air box to the air inlet hole. I did away with the Fiero air cleaner and use a K&N cone filter. The Fiero air cleaner will not let enough air through to feed the 4.9. My car runs a lot better now

The only KIT the intercooler has is all the coolant line plumbing, water pump, the intercooler and the heat exchanger (radiator). I bought the intercooler to chill the air out so i would get less detonation so i could run a smaller pulley. I sure didnt buy it for the 4hp claim they have. Intercooler lets me jump from 8 to 11 or so psi i believe.... They actually speak in pulley size... From stock (i think 4") to 3.2".
My exhaust is 2.5 downtube to dual 2.5" out with a 4" intake that is ducted into the stock location. I was going to buy rockers too but found a SCREAMING deal on Intense Sage 3 heads and Stage 3 Blower Cam too. Cant pass that up!

You should get your current setup dynoed and also your end result. Otherwise, how can you prove it was money well spent or that you won't blow up your motor from running too lean.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-20-2006).]

Id wanted to do that anyway... as for running to lean, the stock injectors can support the 3.2" pulley upgrade. Below 3" is where new injectors are needed (2.6" 2.3")

well... to divert this back to origional a little bit...


it looks nice

...and to take it back O/T to correct some things

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: The gas formula in the winter is different. There is less O2 in the winter air. Get a clue. No one dynos a cold engine, what would be the point. Stop working with theory and get back to the real world.

There is more oxygen in cold air. It's denser. No one dynos a cold engine because the clearances are still loose. It's likely you'd have less power strictly because of this.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: It's the rate of flow that matters, not the temp.

It's both. Actually it's the rate of MASS airflow that matters. That is dependent on velocity and temperature (and pressure).

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: Winter gas contains oxygenates and stuff to help the gasoline evaporate better since this is harder in the winter...because a hot combustion chamber is a good thing. Without those oxygenates, there would be less air for us to breathe because cars would suck it up.

If you ran an engine purely on oxygenates, do you think you could huff on the tail pipe?

Oxygenates are actually alcohols (or ethers). They are put in your fuel to reduce the emissions (of carbon monoxide and NOX's, etc)

Ever wonder why we do strange things.

Take a look at todays play time. This is for all those that said the bottle neck was too small. How bout 4" baby.

Fire Resistant, Foil Tubing. Argh, Flames even sounds manly. Till you read the box. By the first look of it, you would think it was in a hot rod race shop for some top fuel car that needed fire proof air pipe.

Not sure how long I will leave it on there, but we will see.

Capt... if you sent me your adress ill send you a 5' piece of duct i used for my swap.... Similar to what you have BUT its rubber and can take up to 28" of murcury vacuum... plus its also heat and flame resistant! Yours at no charge... cause... uh... well... if you want it!

Id hate to see that ducting (made for blowing through) colapse or flake apart and get sucked into your engine.

Lemme know, i can post pics of the stuff i got!

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 07-21-2006).]