quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Do yourself a favor and start looking for an intake tube that gets the filter out of the engine bay. That is KR ready to happen and thats not a good thing at all. ZZP sells some 4 inch tubing that works great for making CAIs for the Fiero. Once the deaklid is on and that SC starts spinning, the engine bay gets very hot and saturates everything in it with heat. Besides that, everything seems to be coming together and will well be worth the wait once its running.

Thanks for the advice. I will definately look into that.

I used the 4" intake hose from ZZP and moded the V6 filter housing by increasing the hose neck to 4" with 4" exhaust pipe and the same to the bottom of the housing. Im running a K&N filter.

my swap https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071510.html

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

I love ohio's intake it is the coolest. I would be interested to scan your car and see how efficent the intake actually is.

Well I spoke to JR twice yesterday 10/27/06. 1st time was about noon and he told me that he was really close to the first start of the car and that there was a good possibilty I would get the car back Sunday 10/29/06. 2nd time was close to 10pm and he said he was going to try and start the car in just a bit. If everything went well then the car would go in for the exhaust work Saturday morning. 10/28/06.

I got a email from JR. at 3:11am this morning 10/28/06 and here is what he said.

James
Having problems with the C500 connector block will clean it and try
reconnecting again tomorrow morning.
Comming up won't help any.
JR

Something told me that the electrical part of the swap was going to be his next excuse.
I don't know what the C500 block is but I have a feeling it will be his excuse for at least the next 4 or 5 days.

When I was up there last Saturday with Gary, JR said I would have the car back this week. Well here it is 8 days later and no car. JR says that coming up won't help any but I think I will go up anyway. If there is nothing physically I can do to help, I will just sit and watch. At least if I am there I will know he will be working.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 10-28-2006).]

I have a small feeling that it isnt the connectors fault, as there is only 1 or maybe 2 wires in the c500 that would actually prevent the car from starting. all of the wires that acutally run through there control fans, tach, reverse lights, and there is a power wire that some people use, and the main starter turn on wire that runs to the trans, and then to the starter.

If he screwed up the way the starter is wired, then he is very lost, as it is the only extremely straight forward connection you make on the car. it is a like 8 gauge wire that runs to more 8 gauge wire, when the next biggest wire in the entire car is the battery cable, and the smallest is some 12 gauge engine wiring.

My swap worked prefectly the first time I touched the key (less the speedo and tach which I purpously left unhooked), and I just threw my wiring together.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I have a small feeling that it isnt the connectors fault, as there is only 1 or maybe 2 wires in the c500 that would actually prevent the car from starting. all of the wires that acutally run through there control fans, tach, reverse lights, and there is a power wire that some people use, and the main starter turn on wire that runs to the trans, and then to the starter. If he screwed up the way the starter is wired, then he is very lost, as it is the only extremely straight forward connection you make on the car. it is a like 8 gauge wire that runs to more 8 gauge wire, when the next biggest wire in the entire car is the battery cable, and the smallest is some 12 gauge engine wiring. My swap worked prefectly the first time I touched the key (less the speedo and tach which I purpously left unhooked), and I just threw my wiring together.

Well like I said. He is probably just making excuses up (playing on my lack of knowledge) to cover up for his lack of work. I don't know what kind of problem it is causing him. He told me that once he got to the point of starting the car it would depend on whether all the gauges and stuff worked as to whether he would get the car into the exhaust place today or not.

What's up JR? That car running yet?
Gary
Bump

quote Originally posted by GKDINC: What's up JR? That car running yet? Gary Bump

I can answer that question. NO! I spoke to him about 2:30pm today and he said the car cranks but isn't starting. He says he is working on it and will hopefully get it to start today sometime. He also said that the oil pressure gauge should move just a tad when you try and start the car but it doesn't.

Well I have now missed "The Run to the Keys" and Fantasy Fest which was this past weekend. I want to go to Miami Sunday for a Chris Evert Pro-Celeb charity event but something tells me I am going to miss that too. I wonder if I will make the Fall Haul? Hell I have vacation planned to Ohio to spend the Christmas Holidays with Family and now that has me worried.

"I have had enough of this! FINISH MY DAMN CAR JR!"

Edit to add... It has been 9 days since Gary and I went up there and installed the motor and most of the suspension. Only reason I can see as to why it is not finished is JR has not worked on it much since then.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 10-30-2006).]

No reason the car shouldnt run, it does not require the stars to be aligned to do one of theses swaps.

I imagine he has no clue how to wire these cars, as it really is as simple as connecting pink to power, and black to ground.

He should of had that car started and running months ago! When I first cranked mine (And it did not crank on the first try ) It took me 15mins to figure out why it was not starting. After it started (only ran on 4cyls my first actual crank up), everything went quickly, It took me 10 more minutes to figure out why it ran on 4cyls, So 25mins for me to crank her up. And have it running.

BTW, This was my first 3800 sc 2 swap, This guy has done way more swaps then me, There should be 0 excusses from him. I wish I could of lived closer so I could tagged along with you guys, I would of had that sucker running long ago
All he has to do is check if the car is getting fuel and spark.
You can also verify connections with a volt meter a volt meter tells you alot


Then I used a OBD 2 code reader to verify the rest of the wiring , It took me a little over 3months to finish my swap and that's pulling the entire wireharness 3 times to get everything right and clean looking.


It would of took me only 1 1/2 months if I did not run out of funds halfway through the swap.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 10-31-2006).]

James,
I just wanted to let you know and everyone else that i got the mirror on Friday and thats the way transaction should go through everytime. I sent the paypal out and the package was sent out the day after i sent payment. It took about a week to go from florida to california via UPS Ground. So thank you for the great transaction and everyone else should do buisness the way you do it. Thanks Daniel

Well I talked with JR again today. I'm sorry to say that there still is no good news to report. He said that he put my battery on charge overnight and when he tried to crank the car today it drained the battery immediately. He said he went and bought a new battery and it did the same thing. He said he was going to buy a new starter and hopefully that was the problem.

I am begging anyone that has clue about these swaps to give JR a call and brainstorm ideas as to the problems he is having.
His # is 352-461-3608 If he doesn't answer just leave a msg and let him know you want to help. Hopefully he will call you back.

Thank you in advance.


Daniel...Your welcome

at 7 I might call him and chat a bit, I am going to review the engine setup so you dont get stuck with a leaned out knocking piston shooting timebomb.

On second thought, the only thing left to talk about is exhaust and intake. Basicly, dont take the car untill he puts a real intake on it, and has at LEAST a 3 inch downpipe for the exhaust. I stress this more than anything, I garentee that you are greatly endangering your motor unless you do this. Make sure that 3 inch exhaust runs from your manifolds to the muffler, and no less than dual 2.5 or single 3 inch output from that. again I will say that THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, 3 INCH EXHAUST!!! I am almost positive he is going to try to skimp you here, as it is common practice to use 2.5 inch exhaust on stock motors, but you need anything and everything you can get when using the 3.4 pulley.

The 3.4 will be putting some great strain on the operating of your stock motor, so remember to run the absolute highest octane availible, 94 if it is availible will work well for you.

My swap was very simmilar to yours, and I ended up taking out a fairly significant amount of timing advance after adding in the 3.4 pulley (which means it was knocking some which means I was in danger of chipping/melting/destroying a piston). Think about making him scan/tune the car after he is done, as it is important for the longevity of the motor.

A fully true cold air intake near the stock fiero intake is also quite important, as I have found some extremely warm temperatures inside the engine comparatment, which directly induces knock and in turn a blown engine.

I have a feeling that you are very anxious to get ahold of this car the second it moves under its own power, and I highly suggest against that. Make him keep it for a while, and make him drive it so if anything breaks it is his fault and he has to fix it. The only reason I say this is because you paid an extreme amount of money up front like this, and it seems that it was a very flat rate, so make sure it is perfectly "broken in".

Some small things that initally happend after my swap include just about every fluid leak started after driving it for over 300 miles (heater core, trans cooler lines in like 7 places, small water pump problems, no oil leaks though). Some other things that I would be conserned about include a good alignment (4 wheel computer aligned), and even a full tank of the extreme high octane gas that i mentioned before.

One thing that he might get a bit upset at but would be a good idea, go and grab as much as the harness as you can, shake it around harshly and make sure it isnt near any moving parts, exhaust, or other warmer than normal engine parts. Also look to make sure all of his connections are good, if your lucky you might break a week connection and that would force him to fix it there and now instead of it coming apart later down the road.

I would call and discuss this all with him, but I think it might develop into a yell fest that I wouldnt want to happen, so if you could do/ask/suggest these things it may make for a better experience.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-31-2006).]

darkhorizon....you have a PM and thank you sooooo much!

pm back

JimmyS , Glad to see progress ( slow, but progress ) Good news it started.

Will be good to see you reunited with your Fiero again !!

I think it's about time to get the guys together for a cruise one of these upcoming weekends.

Well JR?? Any tracks leading to the muffler shop yet. Lets hear some news!
Gary

Well guess what? More excuses! Now the oil pressure gauge isn't working and he is trying to fix it. He is hopeing to get the car to the muffler shop tomorrow. I am hopeing to get my car back before I am too old to drive it. I'm no mechanic but I think after a day and a half even I could have figured out a oil pressure gauge by now.

Edit to add... At this rate it looks like I am going to miss The Fall Haul too!

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 11-02-2006).]

JimmyS, this has got to be gnawing at you? I have been following this for sometime, and I keep saying how much longer can this go on. JR is a piece of work. Please make sure that you start documenting everything. In fact this thread has done a good job of that.

With all the problems that he is having how do you expect to get a car back that will be reliable? Sounds like you are running the risk of some break-downs, and fixing this and that.

I know for a fact I didnt spend this much time messing with wiring on my FIRST swap.

Any new news Jim??
Good Luck
Gary

I have called JR 3 times today and he has not returned my call yet. From past experience that means he doesn't want to talk to me cause nothing got done.

Edit to add... tomorrow 11/4/06 is the 20 week mark. 5 friggin months!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 11-03-2006).]

Jimmy you're not a mathematician. $4,000.00 earning 5.3% annually would earn $212.00 per year, $17.67 per month or $88.35 in five friggin months.

[This message has been edited by Dirty Harry (edited 11-03-2006).]

Maybe I am wrong but isn't 10% of $4,000.00 $400.00? That would make 5% $200.00 right? Compounded monthly for 5 months is $1,000.00? I'm not arguing here just curious how my calculation is wrong?

Edit to add... Obviously now tha I think about it I am wrong. I just don't know how to calculate interest I guess.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 11-03-2006).]

Received an email from JR at 12:17am this morning.
This is what it says

James
The passenger side exhaust is done the dr side will be done tomorrow.
I'll call you on the way to the closing tomorrow.
Will be before lunch as I have to be in clearwater at 12:00.
Then just some more pcm programming and some shifter adjusting.
Should be able to bring the car to you sunday evening.
JR

If i did the math right, you are looking at about 34 hours.
Will he be driving it or towing?
Good Luck
Gary

[This message has been edited by GKDINC (edited 11-04-2006).]

Interested if you have finalized payment, taking into consideration the fact he is overdue and required you help to complete. I can't expect he is expecting full payment.

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87 Fiero GT (3.2 Turbo)
E-mail: david88@peoplepc.com
www.angelfire.com/pa5/davidfiero/

Well he called me just a little after 11am today and said he should have everything done and the car DELIVERED to me around dark tomorrow. he will be driving down here to me and his wife will follow him and they will drive home together.

Payment has not been finalized yet. We will discuss tha tomorrow when and "IF" he makes it here.

Think Positive!!
Gary

Just a workdof advice to you about taking the car so soon. If the car is just getting the exhaust finished that means he doesnt have very much drive time on the car. Which means there still could be many kinks to work out before this car is road worthy. Of the few 3800SC swaps I have done, none of them have ever came out perfect with no issues. Things can change over a period of miles once the PCM starts to learn the engine and driving habits. If you do take it back, be sure you take it easy on the car and please scan the car. If not you might end up with a 8K swap that didnt last over 2 months. Besides that, enjoy the car, you will love it with the 3800SC in it.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Just a workdof advice to you about taking the car so soon. If the car is just getting the exhaust finished that means he doesnt have very much drive time on the car. Which means there still could be many kinks to work out before this car is road worthy. Of the few 3800SC swaps I have done, none of them have ever came out perfect with no issues. Things can change over a period of miles once the PCM starts to learn the engine and driving habits. If you do take it back, be sure you take it easy on the car and please scan the car. If not you might end up with a 8K swap that didnt last over 2 months. Besides that, enjoy the car, you will love it with the 3800SC in it.

My swap came out perfect.

I didnt do any advanced tuning, but with that 3.3 pulley on there, you are going to need to make sure that it isnt doing anything weird at all (remember kr = bad). Make sure he plays with the timing to the point where it will not knock under and circumstatnce, or just order the 3.5 and dont worry about it.

My trans lines went absoultly nuts on me today, and cost me most of my day in fixing them, so make sure you take a close look at them.

As far as intrest on 4000 would go in 5 months it looks somthing like this.

4000 compounded monthly at 5% is 5,129.73.

if you actually invested the money, look for a 2.5-2.7% rate. = 4,599.30

Basicly you need to haggle the fact that he didnt actually spend much on parts, even though he will say up and down that he did. If he paid more than 1000 for a longblock or more than 1000 on a trans, thats his problem.

Jimmy, the problem with your figures in your post of 11-03 is that you are talking of earning 5% annually but you are adding 5% monthly. Your 5% example of $200.00 should be divided by 12 to get a monthly amount then multiplied by the number of months (5). Of course, it would be compound interest (interest on interest) but the amount won't be that much more in just five months. Hope this helps clear it up.

Well it seems that JR's BS will never end. JR did "NOT" get the car back yesterday as he said he would. In fact, he just called me to tell me he was on his way to go pick it up now. His excuse for not getting the car back yesterday was this "closing" (don't ask me) lasted longer than he thought it would yesterday. This coming from a man who has told me repeatedly that he sleeps till 10ish - 11ish and works till late night.

He still has some work to do on the brakes (possible bleeding) as they do not operate as they should, he still needs to notch the underside of the decklid to clear the alternator right, he still has programing to do and the shifter adjustment to do.
Now JR claims that he drove the car to the exhaust place. He says it is about an hour and a half drive to there. Why would someone drive a car 60+ miles with no exhaust, programming not done, deck lid not fitting right, brakes not working properly and shifter adjustments to make? Then turn and drive it another 60+ miles back with only the exhaust done but still needing programming, deck lid not fitting right, brakes not working proprely and shifter adjustments still to make?

JR's weeks are actually months and his days are actually weeks! He also told me on the phone that he hopes to get me the car still tonight but can't guarantee it. In other words... No Jim it doesn't seem likely I will get you your car tonight like I said. In fact Jim, nothing I have said to you involving when I will get the car back to you has been straight forward. I knew all this time that I could not meet the numerous delivery times I have given you.

*A NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO READS THIS*
DO NOT FOR ANY REASON TAKE A CAR TO JR FOR WORK! I HAVE HEARD SO MUCH BULL SH!T FROM HIM THAT EVERYONE I KNOW IS DROWNING IN IT.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 11-05-2006).]

I am really sorry to hear about delay after delay with your car, and I am sure I'd probably feel about the same as you. Now after saying that I really think JR should have given you your money and car back before he even started on this venture. Or perhaps you should have insisted on a refund and the car back before he started it since it sat for a while before he even started on it.

JR had not posted in this thread to give his version of the story, so signing a petition to ban him as a vendor would be pretty one sided in my opinion. I am not a vendor, and I only work on my car (or friends cars at no charge) as a hobby. I do agree that if you are being paid for a service, then part of your job is to meet deadlines and contractural agreements within reason. But we all know that "stuff" happens at times.

Best of luck and I hope that once the car is done and back in your hands that you have the opportunity to enjoy it without having to reflect on the nightmare it was to get it completed.

Cheers~