Did you say the hinges are welded i never knew that If you hinges are the ones in the pic, they are no more than a universal kit with different flanges welded to them so they will bolt into the fiero? Or is this something that you are starting from scratch and building them your self? What type of welding experiance do you have and can you show us some of your welds? Just major questions that have to do with the structure of the hinge.

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88GT 3.4SC
88GT T-TOP
87GT VERT (build in progress)
www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/053203.html

PM Answered

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by AJ7: i'd rather use a parts car than my own car btw you have a pm.

quote Originally posted by YELLOWFIERO88: Did you say the hinges are welded i never knew that If you hinges are the ones in the pic, they are no more than a universal kit with different flanges welded to them so they will bolt into the fiero? Or is this something that you are starting from scratch and building them your self? What type of welding experiance do you have and can you show us some of your welds? Just major questions that have to do with the structure of the hinge.

all in time the only thing that will be welded is the parts around the hinges to hold them on the metal plates. and yes, they look completely different, just work about the same, it will mount where the top hing mounts to the frame, and then both mounts on the door, all of the mounting points will have metal plates on the otherside then they will be bolted together, so it will still be a bolt on.. you just have to do some drilling i'll get a pic when i make the prototype, and dont worry, i wont sell them unless the welds are atleast almost-perfect (i dont want to sell crap lol)

guess me saying looks like the thread died worked lol, anyone have any more questions?

quote Originally posted by YELLOWFIERO88: Did you say the hinges are welded i never knew that

Neither did I! I could swear that the OEM hinges are attached to the door via bolts whose heads are on the inside of the door. Must have a look when I get home tonight...

quote Originally posted by dguy: Neither did I! I could swear that the OEM hinges are attached to the door via bolts whose heads are on the inside of the door. Must have a look when I get home tonight...

well i'm not sure on fiero's... havent looked at the hinges on one...yet, but on my camaro they are, and all the cars i've looked at.. they are welded to the door, bolted to the frame.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: well i'm not sure on fiero's... havent looked at the hinges on one...yet, but on my camaro they are, and all the cars i've looked at.. they are welded to the door, bolted to the frame.

I have 5 camaros and 1 trans-am... They all have hinges bolted on, not welded on. The ONLY time you weld hinges on is when you don't want to ever properly adjust the door.

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: I have 5 camaros and 1 trans-am... They all have hinges bolted on, not welded on. The ONLY time you weld hinges on is when you don't want to ever properly adjust the door.

on my camaro, they are bolted onto the frame but the hinges are welded to the door...

quote Originally posted by AJ7: on my camaro, they are bolted onto the frame but the hinges are welded to the door...

Then a P/O has done that to your car... What year of camaro?

86'

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ok heres what i'm thinking now, i'll be making some in steel and some in urethane, still doing research though.... from what i've found so far it sounds pretty good.... so does anyone not-like the urethane idea? its just as stronge or stronger than steel from what i've found, and its very light.

Are you sure you know what urethane is.... Do you know the material that bumpers are made out of? Thats what urethane is... So if you plan on making a urethane hinge, count me out. Thanks

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: Are you sure you know what urethane is.... Do you know the material that bumpers are made out of? Thats what urethane is... So if you plan on making a urethane hinge, count me out. Thanks

dude.... there is different strengths, this is going to be 1000psi tensile strength. (basicly it would take about 1000lbs to break...)

http://www.engineersedge.com/plastic/plastic_material/urethane_parts.htm take a look... doesnt really tell the strength on that but you get the idea, i'll look more and try to find something that tells the strength better,

still looking into this, but if i make them like this, i'll even strengthen them some even though they WILL NOT break if i dont. they will last longer, be lighter, and wont break.... everyone let me know what you think, like i said.. i'm making them out of steel too for those who wouldnt want these.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 11-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by AJ7: kansas, and like i said, no more than $650 i'll stop there

700 now? =(

quote Originally posted by 88White3.4GT: 700 now? =(

i said "about" 700, most likely it will still be 650, but i have to see if anyone is interested in urethane... (it will probly end up being cheaper)

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 11-03-2005).]

Its still a type of plastic.. I can't see how it could be that strong. In cold weather wouldn't it become more flexable and may fail? Don't really want a door to fall off in the winter because of plastic hinges... I would look into that more on your part, I just can't see a "urethane hinge" that can support a heavy door in the air, and in the weather...

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: Its still a type of plastic.. I can't see how it could be that strong. In cold weather wouldn't it become more flexable and may fail? Don't really want a door to fall off in the winter because of plastic hinges... I would look into that more on your part, I just can't see a "urethane hinge" that can support a heavy door in the air, and in the weather...

i didnt think it would work either, but my friend went to school for that kind of stuff ... he's got some at his shop and its like as hard as steel... he says you couldnt break it. and i dont think it is flexible unless its really thin.... i'll make sure its not.

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: Its still a type of plastic.. I can't see how it could be that strong. In cold weather wouldn't it become more flexable and may fail? Don't really want a door to fall off in the winter because of plastic hinges... I would look into that more on your part, I just can't see a "urethane hinge" that can support a heavy door in the air, and in the weather...

parts may have a wide range of hardness, from 20 Shore A durometer 
(rubber band) to 75 Shore D durometer
(Aluminum). Urethane has great impact resistance, with even the hardest
Urethanes, you have significantly better impact resistance than plastics and
composites. While conventional plastic materials can
become brittle as they become harder, urethane retains
elasticity and strength over the complete range of
hardnes durometer Urethanes compounds are easily
drilled, tapped and machined.  Hard durometers
Urethane parts are often used in gears, cams, control
mechanisms , and other applications.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: parts may have a wide range of hardness, from 20 Shore A durometer  (rubber band) to 75 Shore D durometer (Aluminum). Urethane has great impact resistance, with even the hardest Urethanes, you have significantly better impact resistance than plastics and composites. While conventional plastic materials can become brittle as they become harder, urethane retains elasticity and strength over the complete range of hardnes durometer Urethanes compounds are easily drilled, tapped and machined.  Hard durometers Urethane parts are often used in gears, cams, control mechanisms , and other applications.

sounds fairly strong to me.....

need to know what people think about this... i can strengthen them more.. i'll get a vid of putting lots of weight on some to show how strong it is for those who dont know about it.

if you dont want urethane, let me know and i'll look into either another metal or steel...

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 11-04-2005).]

I think you need to stick with tried and true materials. I can't think of any car that comes with anything other than steel hinges. I'm having trouble following all of your design changes, sort of like flip flopping. If you ever do get some up for sale let me know as I am interested, but your changes in directions are making me dizzy.

I would definately be interested in a set. It would be nice to have the 1st Fiero with lambo doors here. Then again, there aint many fieros on the go here in St. Johns Newfoundland, Canada anyways.

quote Originally posted by Ken_86gt: I think you need to stick with tried and true materials. I can't think of any car that comes with anything other than steel hinges. I'm having trouble following all of your design changes, sort of like flip flopping. If you ever do get some up for sale let me know as I am interested, but your changes in directions are making me dizzy.

lol sorry, i'm trying to find a way to make them that wont cost too much and still be strong, looks like i have found something. i will make steel and urethane kits most likely.. i'll find out for sure what i'm using here in a couple weeks. i know the plastic thing doesnt sound very good, but if it works like it should... it would be better than metal. i need to know how many would want urethane kits and how many would want steel... then i'll decide. i'll try to get some and take a vid to show how stronge it is.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: i need to know how many would want urethane kits and how many would want steel... then i'll decide. i'll try to get some and take a vid to show how stronge it is.

If you want to sell me on urethane, you're going to have to provide a lot more than just a video demonstration.

At minimum I want to see side-by-side charts comparing the elasticity, tensile & shear strength, etc. of both the plastic & whichever steel alloy you would be using. Hard numbers--no generalities.

quote Originally posted by dguy: If you want to sell me on urethane, you're going to have to provide a lot more than just a video demonstration. At minimum I want to see side-by-side charts comparing the elasticity, tensile & shear strength, etc. of both the plastic & whichever steel alloy you would be using. Hard numbers--no generalities.

alright, i'll start lookin for that. got the tensile and shear strength for the urethane... but i think i'll make a vid. too... maybe of the car sitting on some in the air
maybe just some pics...

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 11-04-2005).]

Dude, these doors weigh 75-80lbs. you take that over a 3 ft lenght and you're looking at up to 240 ft lbs of force. Thats not considering a lot of stuff. Anything less than steel is not going to hold, I wouldnt even trust aluminum. Titanium is way over kill and way to expensive. Rust isnt going to be an issue if you just paint them. Plus plastics flex, dont care how strong they are, they would not work with the kind of weight you're looking at, as would aluminum.

Welding on the hinge is stupid and theres no need. Welding on would be a very bad idea, assuming you get it on right the first time, after a few years when things settle and stretch, theres no way to adjust them. Also, If I sell my car, im not going to want to have to sell my, now, $700 hinges with it. Or if I total the car im not gonna want to have to hack it up with a torch trying to get the hinges off while tring not to set the wiring on fire, then have to screw with trying to clean them up enough to get them back on. All you have to do to bolt them on is drill four holes in the right places. BTW the 3 upper bolts go from the outside in, and the 4the lowest goes from the inside out, so the lowest hole has to be tapped or have a nut welded to it.

I am now so dizzy after reading this that i am going to go do it. I can not partake in this thread anymore untill there is a fiero there, you have hinges, and they are ready to sell. Hopefully they are nowhere near what the pics you have posted because those are junk and they will not hold up. I know that from experiance. I understand that you are trying to make the best kit out there that you can but damn enough is enough. There has been to much talk about these hinges and not enough action. Hell I just about lost my car over them on the other thread. Just get the kit and they will come.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Dude, these doors weigh 75-80lbs. you take that over a 3 ft lenght and you're looking at up to 240 ft lbs of force. Thats not considering a lot of stuff. Anything less than steel is not going to hold, I wouldnt even trust aluminum. Titanium is way over kill and way to expensive. Rust isnt going to be an issue if you just paint them. Plus plastics flex, dont care how strong they are, they would not work with the kind of weight you're looking at, as would aluminum. Welding on the hinge is stupid and theres no need. Welding on would be a very bad idea, assuming you get it on right the first time, after a few years when things settle and stretch, theres no way to adjust them. Also, If I sell my car, im not going to want to have to sell my, now, $700 hinges with it. Or if I total the car im not gonna want to have to hack it up with a torch trying to get the hinges off while tring not to set the wiring on fire, then have to screw with trying to clean them up enough to get them back on. All you have to do to bolt them on is drill four holes in the right places. BTW the 3 upper bolts go from the outside in, and the 4the lowest goes from the inside out, so the lowest hole has to be tapped or have a nut welded to it.

i already said i'll be making steel,i'm just looking into different kinds of strong plastics because i might be able to sell them for less and they are light, strong, and durable. i'm not going to make junk.

the thing with welding.... i said its going to be bolt on, not weld on.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YELLOWFIERO88:

I am now so dizzy after reading this that i am going to go do it. I can not partake in this thread anymore untill there is a fiero there, you have hinges, and they are ready to sell. Hopefully they are nowhere near what the pics you have posted because those are junk and they will not hold up. I know that from experiance. I understand that you are trying to make the best kit out there that you can but damn enough is enough. There has been to much talk about these hinges and not enough action. Hell I just about lost my car over them on the other thread. Just get the kit and they will come.

i'll have a fiero in a week or 2. and i'm making a prototype next week, so i will be started making them within a month.

they look nothing like the hinge in the pic... thats just the idea, it is completely different and mounts in 2 places on the door, and 1 place on the frame.. after i get it on a car i might look into adding some more support.... just kinda seein what people want i'll post pics when i get the prototype done.

if i use any kind of plastic it will be stronger than steel. wont bend...etc. might strengthen it with carbon fiber or a like fiber... price... not sure yet, it will be between 600-700 the whole reason i made this thread is to see if it was worth making, and now that i know it is.. anything worth making is worth making well i should know what i'll be using, the strengths, prices, etc. by next weekend.

bump

quote Originally posted by AJ7: might strengthen it with carbon fiber or a like fiber...

LOL, How are you going to strengthen it with carbon fiber, when even pure carbon fiber is not strong enough? Hell any fiber wouldn't work in this case because it is not dense enough. It would just snap, as for your urethane, it "will" sag, no matter what PSI strength it is, how about you look up some strengths of 1/4-1/2" steel compared to your 10,000 psi of urethane... You'd be surprised how big numbers can be deseving...

I'm trying to be as supportive as I can be. Don't take what we say harshly, but you really need to consentrate on just one product here, you are all over the place and this can be a very touchy subject. When it all breaks down, there are more to these hinges then what you have in mind....

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: LOL, How are you going to strengthen it with carbon fiber, when even pure carbon fiber is not strong enough? Hell any fiber wouldn't work in this case because it is not dense enough. It would just snap, as for your urethane, it "will" sag, no matter what PSI strength it is, how about you look up some strengths of 1/4-1/2" steel compared to your 10,000 psi of urethane... You'd be surprised how big numbers can be deseving... I'm trying to be as supportive as I can be. Don't take what we say harshly, but you really need to consentrate on just one product here, you are all over the place and this can be a very touchy subject. When it all breaks down, there are more to these hinges then what you have in mind....

you'll see..... it wont bend, it wont break. it will work better. i dont care about all those numbers, ive seen how stronge the stuff is.. and i'm making steel for everyone here that wants them anyway so if thats what you want, let me know.

This has to end...... lol Email sent to Both urethane companies, this debate will be finalized in a couple of days.

THANK YOU
You submitted the following to PSI Urethanes:
You should expect a response
sent to you at: *************@hotmail.com

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: This has to end...... lol Email sent to Both urethane companies, this debate will be finalized in a couple of days. THANK YOU You submitted the following to PSI Urethanes: You should expect a response sent to you at: *************@hotmail.com

works for me. it would be nice to find out for sure..... i'm looking into something else i found that is stronger though..

bump

Holy crap you guys....... Whats up with this thread, im getting so confused its not funny. But i would like a set As long as it is strong enouph and well researched i dont care what it is. all you guys are talking U.S. prices right? that sux for me in Canada oh well, JUST GET A SET MADE!!!! so everyone here has been proven.

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quote Originally posted by hoing_ya: Holy crap you guys....... Whats up with this thread, im getting so confused its not funny. But i would like a set As long as it is strong enouph and well researched i dont care what it is. all you guys are talking U.S. prices right? that sux for me in Canada oh well, JUST GET A SET MADE!!!! so everyone here has been proven.

i'm going to have a steel set made here pretty soon. making small changes every day to make it better, i do plan on making them out of urethane after i get started. it WILL be better, and for all those who dont believe the strength, there are different hardnesses and strength so if you see some urethane that isnt strong, its a weaker urethane, the stuff i'll be using is 90D hardness, it is the hardest right now and there are things you can do to strengthen it. after i get some urethane kits made, just to prove how strong it is i'll put it in between blocks and set a car on it. will that be enough proof of how strong it is?
it doesnt wear like metal either..
price is still unknown... but i'll lose money before i let it go above $750
i should have a prototype by the end of the week or beginning of next week.(steel) i'm going to be filing for a patent then, then i will post pics.

for those who would rather have steel i can make those too.