The rain is pretty heavy today so we have decided this would be a great day to just kick back and relax!



Should be clearing tomorrow with a high around 74.

Anxious to check out the bottom end on the motor but with funds still at a minimum and parts in transit the need for speed on this project is really not high.
**********************************************************************
New parts I have on hand:
Rebuilt heads (two broken exhaust bolts need to be removed)
Head bolt set
Exhaust stud set
Head gasket set
Exhaust gasket set
Lifters
pushrods
intake gasket set
Comp Cams 1.6 magnum roller rocker arms

*******************************************************************************************

Parts being sent by forum members:
waterpump/front cover
timing chain
oil pump
fuel filter

********************************************************************
Still looking for assistance in whatever form is available. As stated before any parts sent that are not used to get this car running will either be passed on to someone else on the forum that will benefit from them or sold to finance this rebuild.
Thanks again, and again, and again...........
David


edited to add response I recieved from a local rebuilder (Carolina Machine Rebuilders):

THE PRICE FOR OUR BLOCK ASSEMBLY INCLUDES BLOCK, CRANK, RODS, PISTONS, RINGS, BEARINGS, MACHINED AND ASSEMBLED. THE OTHER PARTS I PRICED ARE OPTIONAL. WE DO NOT INCLUDE THESE BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTS A DIFFERENT COMBINATION.
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A CORE, WE USUALLY CAN FURNISH ONE DEPENDING ON THE ENGINE.

3.4 BLOCK ASSY $640 (CORE $125)
3.1 BLOCK ASSY $580 (CORE $125)
2.8 BLOCK ASSY $560 (CORE $125)

CAMSHAFT- $48.86
LIFTERS- $32.64
CHAIN SET- $15.86
HV PUMP- $68.37
COMPLETE GASKET SET- $84.59
PRICE ON REMANUFACTURED 3.4 LONG BLOCK IS $1096.00. WE NORMALLY KEEP 1 LONGBLOCK IN STOCK

WE OFFER DELIVERY TO THE AUGUSTA AREA, BUSINESS NO CHARGE, RESIDENTIAL $20.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 12-31-2006).]

I guess we'll get the motor out today, will post the results of todays work as it progresses. The weather is looking nice!
(actually just an excuse to bump this thread up)

DRA, I'll be sending out the part in a couple of days, probably Tuesday. I'll probably stuff it into a priority box so it should be there by the end of next week.

quote Originally posted by slickrick2000: DRA, I'll be sending out the part in a couple of days, probably Tuesday. I'll probably stuff it into a priority box so it should be there by the end of next week.

Hey Rick, don't spend any extra on shipping, send the cheapest way you can. I don't see us putting it back together next weekend, earliest date I can see making progress on re-assembly is weekend after next and that is being optimistic.


The engine is out, NEVER AGAIN will we pull a V6 from the top!!!!!!!!
It was a waste of time and effort, I truly regret not listening to the overwhelming number of folks that said to go ahead and drop the cradle.
The cradle will need to be pulled anyway for the reinstall, just can't see fighting with a new motor the way we did pulling the old one out.
Will get some pics of the motor as we tear it apart.

Onward!

Just want to say thanks to the following for putting me in a much better mood for the holidays!
Suufmeister
Hnthomps
Raydar
Slickrick2000
Whadeduck
The Funkmaster
Phaeton
Brian Lamberts
BobadooFunk
Hugh

And to the rest of the PFF comunity, thank you for all the advise and support and have a very Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!
David Andrews

and now for something completely different............

With every passing hour our solar system comes forty-three thousand
miles closer to globular cluster M13 in the constellation Hercules, and
still there are some misfits who continue to insist that there is no
such thing as progress.
-- Ransom K. Ferm

hey there... i'm going to give this a friendly bump and i need to know if you have paypal or if i need to send out a money order. if at all possible could we get some pics of the pulled motor?

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: hey there... i'm going to give this a friendly bump and i need to know if you have paypal or if i need to send out a money order. if at all possible could we get some pics of the pulled motor?

I'll post some pics of the motor tomorrow (looked at the clock, actually today), set up a paypal account tonight (actually today LOL).

The waterpump was all wobbly, once we got the motor out, could see where it had been weeping.

The cam slides back and forth rather easily, or in and out, with the timing chain still on. Seems to be a lot of slack in the timing chain.

The rods seem to have a lot of accessive movement in them also, should I be able to slide them back and forth easily on the crank?

Everything just seems a little loose to me.

Surge and I are thinking about taking the shortblock assembly to a rebuilder sometime today, going to call one other shop before we make a decision. Was hoping to do a 3.4 but I don't want to be greedy, just want whatever we do to be done right.
Here's current pics from the day we pulled the block.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 12-27-2006).]

Rods will slide easily, but the rough test for excessive play is if they will twist side to side. The greater the bearing clearance the more they will twist. You can save the crank as long as the engine wasn't knocking. Once a bearing fails to knocking then the crank's not salvageable, that means losing a hefty core charge.

If you decide to rebuild your block it will cost probably a bit more than buying a long block from a rebuilder, but you keep the numbers matching by doing that. Some people (like me, hehehe) like matching numbers for some odd reason. Also, by keeping your block you personally know the run and build history on the castings, whereas you don't know if the replacement block and/or heads have been seriously overheated in the past.

If you decide to do a minimum cost rebuild on your block, i.e. don't bore the engine out and replace the pistons, just refresh the bearings, you should replace the cam bearings, cam, lifters, timing chain and gears, timing chain guide, rods and mains (measure the crank rod journals to make sure they aren't worn too much, if they are then get the crank reground and use oversize bearings. Get the rod bottom ends checked for elongation. Make sure to keep track of which rod goes in what hole, piston rings are match-worn to the cylinders, though it's better to not try removing the pistons from the bores if you can help it because of the risk the rings will be damaged getting out past the cylinder wear ridge.

James

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-27-2006).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Rods will slide easily, but the rough test for excessive play is if they will twist side to side. The greater the bearing clearance the more they will twist. You can save the crank as long as the engine wasn't knocking. Once a bearing fails to knocking then the crank's not salvageable, that means losing a hefty core charge. If you decide to rebuild your block it will cost probably a bit more than buying a long block from a rebuilder, but you keep the numbers matching by doing that. Some people (like me, hehehe) like matching numbers for some odd reason. Also, by keeping your block you personally know the run and build history on the castings, whereas you don't know if the replacement block and/or heads have been seriously overheated in the past. If you decide to do a minimum cost rebuild on your block, i.e. don't bore the engine out and replace the pistons, just refresh the bearings, you should replace the cam bearings, cam, lifters, timing chain and gears, timing chain guide, rods and mains (measure the crank rod journals to make sure they aren't worn too much, if they are then get the crank reground and use oversize bearings. Get the rod bottom ends checked for elongation. Make sure to keep track of which rod goes in what hole, piston rings are match-worn to the cylinders, though it's better to not try removing the pistons from the bores if you can help it because of the risk the rings will be damaged getting out past the cylinder wear ridge. James

The motor was chattering under load, nothing like the knocking I have heard with a damaged rod bearing but enough to let me know it was time to park it. Hopefully the crank will be fine. There is a slight twisting if I take the two rod bolts and push in oposite directions, hope that made sense. Local rebuilder wants $560 to redo just the crank and pistons (rotating assembly), that does not include cam installation, timing gear, oil pump, etc.
Here are the pics of the block:




Surge is here so gotta run, will update this later.

Paypal is set up, my e-mail is fierorulz@yahoo.com

Surge got everything loose and the cradle is ready to drop, hope to start cleaning and prepping this weekend. As we get parts done I'll be posting pics and I'll try to get plenty of pics of the motor assembly as it goes back together on the stand. When all is said and done I will get a list together of Members who have directly contributed to the completion of the car.

I'm still in the hole, but would not be anywhere on this without the support of PFF members. Somewhere on my car will be "Sponsered by Pennocks Fiero Forum"! Anyone want to make a sticker for the back window?

I have a spare ignition coil and what Im pretty sure is a good used heater core if you need em. The coil is also used but goot. Dont have anything else to donate. Also if anyone wants a spare 2.8 block and heads a have a set. The block is bored .040 over but should just need a hone and the heads are missing some parts but they are free.

quote Originally posted by klork: I have a spare ignition coil and what Im pretty sure is a good used heater core if you need em. The coil is also used but goot. Dont have anything else to donate. Also if anyone wants a spare 2.8 block and heads a have a set. The block is bored .040 over but should just need a hone and the heads are missing some parts but they are free.

Appreciate the offer, just put a new heater core and hoses in when we replaced the A/C and the coil that was on it was less than a year old.
If you still want to help someone out though I would suggest listing the parts in the Mall. There is a specific thread, thought I had a link to it in this thread, for free parts. Folks are just asking to cover shipping or pick it up. Great idea to help folks out that are on a tight budget. This kind of activity is great for not only the Fiero community itself but for the automotive enthusiast community in general.

After my car is straightened out I'm going to try to make sure what parts I have here go to good homes, try to pass on some of the good vibes that have come my way!

Cradle is out!



Now why didn't we just do that in the first place?????????? Oh well.

Want to thank F-I-E-R-O, Whadeduck, and Finally_Mine_86_GT for kickin' into the paypal account.

About 2/3rds of the way to where I need to be to get this thing cranked up but right now financial contributions are at $560 from 6 forum members with a 7th member sending a check for an unspecified amount that should be here early next week. I'm gonna stay away from mentioning particular amounts from particular members simply because to me there's no difference in the guys that sent $1 and the guys that sent $100 (just an example, not actual amounts), it's all appreciated and it is really the thought that counts as much as the monetary amount.
Also to the guys that sent parts and offered to send parts, the guys that have offered to help with the labor and the guys that wish they were close enough to help, the thought is really what counts!
Someone I would really like to mention at this point is Cliff Pennock for creating and maintaining this Forum!

PFF rules!

Didn't get much done yesterday, Surge got caught up watching James Browns funeral service (5 hours long).

He's back at it today continueing on some work on the lower and middle intake manifolds, just using a stone to clean up the inside of the runners (removing very little material, mainly just knocking the carbon off).
Surge brought a small welder over, 120volt up to 1/8 steel), not sure if it is sufficient to do the outside of the flange on the exhaust manifolds but we were going to give it a shot. Would like to port them while they are off. The only change in the stock motor will be whatever we can do to let it breath a little better and the higher ratio rockers.
I spent a few minutes today trying to clean the trans and cradle up but wasn't long before I was back in a chair to rest. Hard sitting around while he's out there working on things.
I'll post pics of the progress later this evening.

Sheesh. Y'all leave something for me to help with next weekend. lol Looks like it's coming along nicely.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (8/26/06)

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: Sheesh. Y'all leave something for me to help with next weekend. lol Looks like it's coming along nicely.

If your lucky you'll miss most of the dirty work.
But don't worry, I think there will be plenty to do after the block gets back! Really nervous about adjusting the valves and making sure everything goes back together correctly. Also a little concerned about how much help I'll be, seems like I'm able to do less and less everyday. Maybe a good day of rest tomorrow will help recharge my battery a little.

I'm sure you'll do fine. However, finding that leggy blonde would be a nice incentive.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (8/26/06)

quote Originally posted by DRA: Can't really tell much from the pics, the cleaning is coming along slowly.

That's got to be the cleanest automatic tranny and intake I've ever seen, other than ones that were on the assembly line.

Is your lower intake okay?
I've got one you can have if you need it. It's in desperate need of cleaning, however.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-31-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: That's got to be the cleanest automatic tranny and intake I've ever seen, other than ones that were on the assembly line. Is your lower intake okay? I've got one you can have if you need it. It's in desperate need of cleaning, however.

The pics are a little deceiving, doesn't look quite so clean in person but we are also just getting started good!

As far as the slop in that chain, it hadn't chewed up anything in the timing cover but the timing gear/cam were sliding in and out very freely. Seemed like all the internals were very "sloppy" leading me to question the odometer reading or wondering if the engine had been backyard overhauled or replaced with a higher mileage unit at some point in the past.
Needless to say, I'm glad I parked it when I did before any catastrophic failure occured.

In the past if I broke down on the road I would just jump out and push the car to a safe place, go get parts and repair it on the spot and drive away. My days of doing that are kinda passed and in the case of this car I don't think I would have been able to run to the auto parts store to fix what was about to happen.

I'm going to be in Atlanta on the 16th, have an appointment at Emory. When I figure out my schedule I'll post it, might be able to meet some folks in the Atlanta area either for lunch or dinner.
Either way hope to see some folks this spring, should be out and about by then.

Bump,

Rough day today (jan 2nd), had two molars pulled, one upper and one lower on oppisite sides.
Feel like a chipmunk! Just woke up to pop a hydrocodone or whatever and go back to sleep.

Short Block was not ready today, when I talked to the rebuilder they said they had received the wrong pistons and were waiting on the correct ones to arrive hopefully today. This is not what I wanted to hear but stuff happens and I'm not gonna get all stressed about it. Will call them back tomorrow and hopefully all will be right, if not then I guess there will be more prep time.

Still about $400 to the bad on this thing, lots of unexpected expenses, kinda expected on any Fiero project. LOL

The big push for this weekend is now totally dependent on Carolina Machine Engines, kinda wish I had not paid in full when I dropped it off.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 01-04-2007).]

Carolina Machine Engines has dropped the ball, they claim they received the wrong pistons in the correct boxes and did not realize the manufacturer/vendor error until the tried to install the rings. When I called them earlier today they said they would call me back after they talked to their UPS guy to see if he had the replacements for delivery today. After not hearing back from them for two hours I called again and was told the machine shop closes at 12:00 on fridays. They could have told me that there was no way it was gonna get done today when I called the first time rather than leading me on. They apoligized and said they would deliver the engine where ever I wanted next week free of charge.

Just a little frustrated right now, I've over extended myself financially to make sure other parts would be here this weekend and now there is no engine to work with this weekend.
Stuff happens, I know................

Then we'll see if we can get everything else completed. All the little stuff that would take a lot of time. Bummer, but we'll try to make the best of it anyway. Looks like I'll have some lovely weather to travel through though.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (8/26/06)

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: Then we'll see if we can get everything else completed. All the little stuff that would take a lot of time. Bummer, but we'll try to make the best of it anyway. Looks like I'll have some lovely weather to travel through though.

Sent you a PM just a minute ago, I'm starting to calm down a little.......... LOL
Looks lovely here for the moment, sun is shining, nice cool breeze, I'm sure that will be gone shortly!

From your friendly neighbor powder coater, Electrathon.



Thank you!

Glad it all got there OK and in time. Good luck with the install!

Richard (Whadeduck) and Surge (Suufmeister) in action, sort of, well kind of.................


Look, pretty oil pan.........


Still looking for assistance of whatever kind anyone can spare!

Not positive on who but beleive another PFF member kicked in on the paypal account, thanks goes out to them.

Some issues with the front exhaust manifold but several irons are in the fire trying to resolve the issue. Don't expect to here from the engine builder till Tuesday.

Had a great weekend, got a lot done Saturday and kind of took it easy today. Big thanks to Whadeduck and Suufmeister for spending their weekend working on the car! I'll probably spend Monday resting, I'm about wore out.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 01-08-2007).]

Bump for a quick update.

Thank you goes out to TennT and WBailey1041 for chipping in on the paypal account, not sure if I gave them a shout out in this thread yet or not but I am keeping up with everyone and hope to have a big finale post when the car is up and running to re-cap all the guys that have directly contributed to getting me going again!

Talked to Carolina Machine Engines Tuesday and they claim their supplier dicontinued the pistons so they had to track down a set (crossing my fingers that they are installing the right ones!). Supposedly the motor will be finished before the end of the week (again!).

Picked up a good front exhaust manifold from Scott (psychosurfer) today, said he may be available for some tuning help on Monday.
Richard (Whadeduck) is considering coming back this weekend if we get the engine delivered to help with getting everything back together.
Surge (suufmeister) is gonna be working on the car again Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

Still struggling to get things together to finish up, Kelly (girlfriend) has asked me to help her sell some prints she had in inventory when she closed her shop and is promising 10% of the sales will go directly into the car fund! She is already paying my monthly bills (car insurance and minimum credit card payments) which come to about $200 a month (and feeding me!), otherwise she would have paid for the rebuild herself. Right now she is not in the best financial position herself, her business of about 18 years folded a couple of months ago. Really good woman, wish we had gotten together about 10 years ago!

Will update and post more pics as things progress.

Thread on e-bay for some of her prints!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&s...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&s...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&s...

I wish I could contribute more than just knowledge, But at least here is some. On the paint for the exhaust make sure to follow the curring times, as in run it for the set times and it says on the can or it WILL come off the manifolds.

I know how it is to be flat broke and no car running, I have had to give up cars over it before. I have recieved alot of help from the Vegas Club and have helped or tryed to help everyone I could when they needed it. I started working on Fieros there just to make sure people don't get screwed when the avg shop says "Fiero, oh that will cost you" If I was closer you would have to kick me out from under your car to get me to leave. But at least this shows that not everyone sucks. I wish you the best of luck.
If you need any help in the info dept. just let me know as that is all I can spend right now, but will give out as much as I can.

sardonyx247 for yahoo msg if needed.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!!
Las Vegas Fiero Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 01-10-2007).]

quote Originally posted by sardonyx247: I wish I could contribute more than just knowledge, But at least here is some. On the paint for the exhaust make sure to follow the curring times, as in run it for the set times and it says on the can or it WILL come off the manifolds. I know how it is to be flat broke and no car running, I have had to give up cars over it before. I have recieved alot of help from the Vegas Club and have helped or tryed to help everyone I could when they needed it. I started working on Fieros there just to make sure people don't get screwed when the avg shop says "Fiero, oh that will cost you" If I was closer you would have to kick me out from under your car to get me to leave. But at least this shows that not everyone sucks. I wish you the best of luck. If you need any help in the info dept. just let me know as that is all I can spend right now, but will give out as much as I can. sardonyx247 for yahoo msg if needed.

Appreciate the advise and I'm sure we'll be buried in the search function this weekend when everything starts going back together! Probably see a few questions in the tech section this weekend under my username.
Something I've tried to emphasize is the fact that even if someone can't contribute money, parts, or actual physical help it doesn't mean they can't or haven't helped out on this and a hundred other projects.
I think it's one of the things that makes this forum a little different from a LOT of others, seems like theres always someone willing to lend a hand whether it be driving out of their way to look at a problem for another guy, takeing the time to do a write up on different procedures, talking someone through something on the phone, or just listening and understanding what someone else is going through. It's just a great bunch of folks for the most part, or at least it seems that way to me! Sure we argue or whine every now and then but when it really counts you can usually find a hand.

I know it's getting sickening but once again, thanks guys!


PS the engine builder called earlier and the shortblock should be delivered tomorrow!

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 01-10-2007).]

Shortblock delivered before lunch today!



They returned all the old internals for inspection.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 01-11-2007).]