quote Originally posted by Mr. Pat: And who gives a sh1t who's organising it, dyno it. You'll either shut him up, or give him more ammo.

No one has to prove anything to Mr. Shaun. We build our cars for our own enjoyment. If we want to dyno then we'll dyno, otherwise no one has to prove any thing to anybody. Even if Archie's car pulled 600 hp, I believe Mr. Shaun would find something else to complain about, or resort to personal attacks and insults.

I with JScott and Arch and all other fair minded individuals on this forum.

I think Shaun - or whatever he is called - has taken up way too much bandwidth here. I don't even think he's on this forum - banned? If so let's leave him out - so this is to Shaun see ya!

If someone get's something set with a dyno at D7 then great - if not I'm cool with that - hey I can do it locally or wait until CTR II.

[This message has been edited by DrCPU (edited 01-28-2007).]

quote Originally posted by DL10: We could ask you the same question...........but we know the answer.

do you want to pay to finish my engine? i posted in this thread who WAS going to organize it, which is how i got involved. so whats your reasoning for being here?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Mr. Shaun has apparently added me to the list of people he hates on and has proceeded to fill my inbox with obcenities and racist insults to me and my car. The worst thing I have done to him is to call him "shauna" if that was insulting, I apologise. Nevertheless, he feels like he can start threads on RFT ridiculing me and my car and sending my email account obscenity laced messages, (Shaun, I didn't bother to read the last one so whatever you said is known only to yourself). I have been nothing but polite to him in my messages, yet he has shown himself to be a man of very low moral character. Anyone that spends so much energy hating on other people should seek treatment. This is not the kind of person the Fiero community should associtate with in my opinion.

Didn't you have a car that was the star of a movie not long ago!?!? 99.9% of us would jump at the chance to have a car in a movie. Anyone who would make fun of any car you are working on should consider that it's being built by the same guy who built a car good enough to be in a movie.

As for your EMail, the world hates a Bigot. I've heard from 8 people in the last 5 days that have been getting his love letters too. I haven't been getting any, but I blocked his known EMail addresses a couple of years ago. I'll bet he's sent me dozens of hateful EMails just to have them end up in the hole in space where all undelivered EMail goes. It's such a waste, he takes the time to write down his hate but it never gets to me. I did get some of his lovely letters when he sent them thru the EBay mailing system, but other than that I haven't seen anything. Try to remember what he said & ask him to say it to your face when you get to Daytona.

He said he went to college to be something in life, & look where he's at...... sitting behind a computer spilling out his bigotry & hate for the world to see. It's actually pretty sad when you think about it. I wonder if he learned anything else in school.

Archie

------------------

After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel
Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........

In all fairness, I bet your car would be even quicker with a full mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust system. Never hurts to get rid of any potential bottlenecks. Crush bent exhaust belongs on pickup trucks.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I remember that car. I built it for Jack Wagoner who lived in Roselle at the time. Finished it in the Summer of 2000. We did the Hot Cam kit on it & plated CC90's. Full Armstrong suspension kit on it with coil-overs & the whole bit. You may remember Jack, if you don't ask PaulV about him, the guy was a dandy. I remember test driving the car with the Hot Cam & 1.6 rollers & it was stupid fast at that time. As I recall jack was running 12.5's & 12.6's back then. The exhaust & head work don't seem to have helped all that much. The car is still running the CForce clutch that everyone says don't hold & it's running the Getrag 5 speed that the "experts" say won't stay together. Archie

Is that the same "Jack" who bought the low mileage maroon GT that had the suspension installed back when Scott worked for you?
If I recall Jack also had a red 88 Formula with a V-8 as well. It had the quarter panel scoops that seemed to stick farther out than the normal style panels.

EDIT: Ah yes it is the same "Jack", I remember you and Scott working on it. Scott bought the original low mileage V-6 from Jack and we installed it into Scott's car when you let us use your shop one weekend. If I recall the GT jack bought only had 28,000 miles on it.

I just found the archived post about the suspension on that car:

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Good point. Now, when was the last time a race was decided based on HP/L? And I do have to acknowledge the Series III 3800SC has 260HP stock. All that high tech with a supercharger and it can put out 15HP more than a normally aspirated V8 from 20 years ago. I'm am duly impressed. If you want to compare the best modern 3800SC to the best modern small block Chevy, why don't you look at the 500 HP LS7? Oh, since it seems to matter, it has 71 HP/L. Or an LS2 with 400 HP - that works out to 67 HP/L. I am getting interested in this HP/L racing though. Do you have a schedule of sanctioned races? Does the Speed channel carry them? Or do you just brag about your HP/L after some knuckledragger with dinosaur technology blows your doors off?

Thank you for taking that point far further than I ever intended. You have a wonderful imagination.

My point, since you obviously missed it, is that there is no point in using an L98 when there are modern V6 engines that are more powerful. Take that a little further, as you eventually did, and you'll note that there are modern V8s that make far more power as well. All in all, the TPI V8 is old news.

The HP/L point was also lost on you, so allow me to explain. The TPI V8 is also inefficient, even by the standards of its time. As you and Oreif pointed out, there are a lot of engines with higher HP/L, including the L44 (Fiero V6), even with its horrid intake and exhaust designs. Hell, even a '67 VW Bug is more efficient. Really not saying a lot for the TPI here. My point here is that TPI obviously is not the be-all-end-all of fuel injection, as poingiantly marked by the fact that GM stopped using it 15+ years ago. You'll note that modern GM V8s have composite intakes that look nothing at all like TPI. Obviously, it wasn't a good design. Hell, if the TPI were as efficient as the 2.8 of its time, it should be making 285HP. Shoot, Oreif's CARB'D SBC is more efficient than both. Thank goodness we have TPI here, being 30% less efficient than carbed engine. That's some design.

Now then you try to turn it around, and put modern V8s against the 3800SC. Again, not doing much for your TPI argument if you have to call in reinforcements. The whole point to begin with was that it wasn't worth comparing a TPI to a 3800SC. Considering the fact that the Buick 3.8 design has been around for decades, I'd say its doing pretty well. More to the point, the FWD 3.8, though its in its 3rd "series," hasn't changed all that much since the early 90s, but its still better than the TPI. Bringing in a clean sheet V8 designed years after the FWD 3.8 just takes my original argument and moves it up a decade. And surely you can admit that and LS2 has almost nothing in common with a TPI, other than displacement. The LS7 just has the same number of cylinders.

Finally, I'd note for the record I have no vested interest in this argument. I have neither a V8 or a 3800, just a low tolerance for brash generalizations. And do recall that the TPI, 3800, LS2, LS7 and my mighty 3.4 Pushrod are all using the same basic 2 valve pushrod knuckledragger technology. We're all in the same boat here. Difference is, I know my engine is no big screaming deal, so I don't try to use it to boost the size of my e-penis.

Oh, and it has about 58HP/L. Suck on that, TPI.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Thank you for taking that point far further than I ever intended. You have a wonderful imagination. My point, since you obviously missed it, is that there is no point in using an L98 when there are modern V6 engines that are more powerful. Take that a little further, as you eventually did, and you'll note that there are modern V8s that make far more power as well. All in all, the TPI V8 is old news. The HP/L point was also lost on you, so allow me to explain. The TPI V8 is also inefficient, even by the standards of its time. As you and Oreif pointed out, there are a lot of engines with higher HP/L, including the L44 (Fiero V6), even with its horrid intake and exhaust designs. Hell, even a '67 VW Bug is more efficient. Really not saying a lot for the TPI here. My point here is that TPI obviously is not the be-all-end-all of fuel injection, as poingiantly marked by the fact that GM stopped using it 15+ years ago. You'll note that modern GM V8s have composite intakes that look nothing at all like TPI. Obviously, it wasn't a good design. Hell, if the TPI were as efficient as the 2.8 of its time, it should be making 285HP. Shoot, Oreif's CARB'D SBC is more efficient than both. Thank goodness we have TPI here, being 30% less efficient than carbed engine. That's some design. Now then you try to turn it around, and put modern V8s against the 3800SC. Again, not doing much for your TPI argument if you have to call in reinforcements. The whole point to begin with was that it wasn't worth comparing a TPI to a 3800SC. Considering the fact that the Buick 3.8 design has been around for decades, I'd say its doing pretty well. More to the point, the FWD 3.8, though its in its 3rd "series," hasn't changed all that much since the early 90s, but its still better than the TPI. Bringing in a clean sheet V8 designed years after the FWD 3.8 just takes my original argument and moves it up a decade. And surely you can admit that and LS2 has almost nothing in common with a TPI, other than displacement. The LS7 just has the same number of cylinders. Finally, I'd note for the record I have no vested interest in this argument. I have neither a V8 or a 3800, just a low tolerance for brash generalizations. And do recall that the TPI, 3800, LS2, LS7 and my mighty 3.4 Pushrod are all using the same basic 2 valve pushrod knuckledragger technology. We're all in the same boat here. Difference is, I know my engine is no big screaming deal, so I don't try to use it to boost the size of my e-penis. Oh, and it has about 58HP/L. Suck on that, TPI.

Well said.

What people install into their fiero is their own business but it just seems like a bit of a waste to spend the $$ on a sbc swap and then swap in a low power V-8. There are plenty of crate engines that will blow the TPI away hp wise.

My N* only has 300hp, which isn't too bad. I imagine it would dyno around 280-290hp using the Getrag, that has been what similar setup fieros have put down. I do plan to dyno it soon and see for sure.

Stock N* rated at 300hp is about 65hp/l, not that great from a dohc V-8. Alan from chrfab says his mild cams add about 75hp over stock which would put the motor at around 82hp/l which is a bit better.

My Skyline makes around 127hp/l stock although it has twin turbos. Not all that great if you consider that modern cars like the S2000 make 120hp/l NA.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: What people install into their fiero is their own business but it just seems like a bit of a waste to spend the $$ on a sbc swap and then swap in a low power V-8. There are plenty of crate engines that will blow the TPI away hp wise.

DING DING DING ! ! ! What do we have for him JOHNNY !

------------------
HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by crzyone: What people install into their fiero is their own business but it just seems like a bit of a waste to spend the $$ on a sbc swap and then swap in a low power V-8. There are plenty of crate engines that will blow the TPI away hp wise.

Thank You, that was pretty much my point.

I didnt realize I had to spell it out.

I'd already explained that some people use a stock TPI because it's a cheap easy way to get the V8 done, then they can mod it later as funds allow. Either you didn't comprehend that or chose to ignore it. If you want a SBC swap, the cheapest crate engine is an LM1, which is comparable HP to a TPI and still more expensive. And it's not emissions legal.

As for modern V6 engines with more power, yes there are some. We have some really great options for engines today. But it wasn't until the Series III 3800SC came out that GM made a V6 with more HP, and it required a blower to do it, and it still makes less torque. The new DOHC used in the G6 GTP puts out 252 HP. Again, this would make a great engine for a Fiero.

But none of them can be done as easily as the TPI. Am I saying TPI is the end all be all? Of course not. My own posts pointed out how many other engines put out more power. But, it is a great way to do a budget emissions legal swap that isn't too difficult. It can also be done legally in California with a 5-speed with a minimum (for CA) of hassle. Try that with a 3800SC. The electronics on a TPI engine are no more difficult to work with than the OEM Fiero setup. The same cannot be said about OBD-II and the newer CAN based setups. The LS4 V8 is another great option, if and when someone cracks the electronics on it. People are already working on it, so it's only a matter of time.

I did take your HP/L argument farther than you probably intended. Why? Because HP/L doesn't really matter. There are many different ways to get 300 HP (or whatever figure you want) out of an engine. Some are more efficient than others. Other than gas mileage, HP/L doesn't mean much. And if you want to talk efficiency, you should really be comparing BSFC.

Just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it a turd. It's not a high-end swap, but it's still a viable option.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it a turd. It's not a high-end swap, but it's still a viable option.

I agree with this. I am so sick of people critisizing an engine swap because it's not the most powerful engine on the planet. Everybody has to decide for themselves what engine they want in their car, from leaving it stock or swapping a V6, V8 or whatever.

I get so much greif over my 4.9, I'm sick of hearing about it... is it the most powerful V8 on the planet? no, is a 3800SC more powerful, yes, but did I want a 3800SC in my car, no. If I could magically replace my 4.9 with a 3800SC I would say no thank you because that's not what I wanted. I don't care that one dynos more than the other, or is a quarter second faster in the 1/4 mile. I could care less. It's my car, I built it and it's nobody elses business. If you don't like my engine, don't feel compelled to tell me about it.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by crzyone: What people install into their fiero is their own business but it just seems like a bit of a waste to spend the $$ on a sbc swap and then swap in a low power V-8. There are plenty of crate engines that will blow the TPI away hp wise.

That's right.
It's not the person making the kits decision.
It's not Shaun's decision.
It is the owner of the car that makes the decision and spends the money.

So tell me, since the owner of the car decides what engine to use and the owner likes the way they did their own car,
Why is Shaun so uptight over the fact that some owners don't care about numbers?

In fact it appears Shaun is having a major mental breakdown from it. Archie never stated any of his personal cars had more horsepower than what the engine he installed was rated for. (actually he underestimated them) Some people like myself had their cars dyno'd (because we as the owners chose to do it) and have shown that the Archie kit works fine.
I will agree that there are some people who tend to over-embellish how much horsepower their engines have (and it happens on every car forum out there) but you really have to ask yourself why is Shaun so obsessed with the guy making the kits for SBC swaps?
Sounds like jealousy to me.

What's really funny is how he posts that he liked the V-8 install of "Cartmans" and praised his 1/4 mile times in the RFT Motorsport section and many NIFE members have personally seen when and where that car was built.

HaHaHaHa, Now Shaun's obession is getting so pathetic that even the folks at RFT are getting tired of it!

The 4.9 is a great engine. Its light, reliable, economical and easy to install. Its a fine replacement for a tired 2.8 or duke. The problem with the 4.9 is that there were people trying to convince others that it is a performance engine. When people started to find out that its closer to a mid 14 second engine then thats when all the 4.9 bashing started. I don't think MTA helped either with his wild 11 second 1/4 mile claims.

The TPI is a good engine, its just a bit anemic. It has the put you back in your seat torque but lacks badly in power. I can agree that it is a good stepping stone to build off of. I think the ideal sbc to put into a fiero would be an oversquare engine. More bore, less stoke. Knock off some of that big torque and make more higher end hp. Would be much easier on the manual tranis. People who put stokers in with huge torque are just asking for trouble.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: ..But it wasn't until the Series III 3800SC came out that GM made a V6 with more HP, and it required a blower to do it, and it still makes less torque. ..

Amen. How can you compare a supercharged V6 to a non supercharged V8? Put a supercharger to the TPI and then go back to your comparison. But someone here is BLIND to see that.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: The TPI is a good engine, its just a bit anemic. ..

So would be the SC3800 then even with 15hp more and 30+tq less.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: The TPI is a good engine, its just a bit anemic. ..

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: So would be the SC3800 then even with 15hp more and 30+tq less.

That's what I don't understand, and one reason I was arguing in favor of TPI. Why is a 245HP stock L98 anemic, but a 240HP stock 3800SC isn't? Why don't people complain about 3.4s being anemic (either pushrod or DOHC)?

If you look at all the engines swapped into Fieros in their stock form, you have to move up to some pretty modern and advanced engines. The Northstar beats it. So does an LT1 or LS series. The Series III 3800SC beats it, too. No much else from GM can match it's output stock. Not bad for a 20 year old design.

Once you start modding, you can make awesome power from a plethora of engines, from a Super Duty 4 cylinder up to the sky's the limit.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: The 4.9 is a great engine. Its light, reliable, economical and easy to install. Its a fine replacement for a tired 2.8 or duke. The problem with the 4.9 is that there were people trying to convince others that it is a performance engine. When people started to find out that its closer to a mid 14 second engine then thats when all the 4.9 bashing started. I don't think MTA helped either with his wild 11 second 1/4 mile claims. The TPI is a good engine, its just a bit anemic. It has the put you back in your seat torque but lacks badly in power. I can agree that it is a good stepping stone to build off of. I think the ideal sbc to put into a fiero would be an oversquare engine. More bore, less stoke. Knock off some of that big torque and make more higher end hp. Would be much easier on the manual tranis. People who put stokers in with huge torque are just asking for trouble.

Took the words out of my mouth.

Title: "DYNO AT DAYTONA IN MARCH"

Does this mean there is or isn't going to be a dyno at Daytona?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That's what I don't understand, and one reason I was arguing in favor of TPI. Why is a 245HP stock L98 anemic, but a 240HP stock 3800SC isn't? Why don't people complain about 3.4s being anemic (either pushrod or DOHC)?

Its anemic because its a 5.7L V-8 that costs a lot of money to install for only 245hp. Its not even the peak power I'm talking about, its powerband is like an inflated 4.9. Nead more top end pull. It has all the torque that a SBC should but the tpi system really holds it back.

Its even worse when you start to compare it to a 3800sc which does not need a $3500 install kit. My Northstar cost around $5k (Canadian) for everything including motor. Its a 300hp engine that also does not need an install kit.

If you are looking for a 245hp engine, there are better choices out there. If you want a V-8, there are better choices out there. If you are going to go through the trouble to install a V-8, might as well install one that has more power than a bone stock 3800sc.

BTW, $100 for a supercharger pulley on the 3800 and there is no comparison between the 2 motors.

quote Originally posted by crzyone:

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Its even worse when you start to compare it to a 3800sc which does not need a $3500 install kit. My Northstar cost around $5k (Canadian) for everything including motor. Its a 300hp engine that also does not need an install kit.

It's only $3400 for a 3800SC kit. See http://www.westcoastfiero.c...800sc-manual-ac.html
and that doesn't include the cost of the engine.
Cost is determined by amount the person wants to do and the quality of the parts.
Example: Archie did a thread back in 2001 where he installed a SBC V-8 for $4000.
This was using his basic kit and used parts.

What is the cost of a NEW 3800SC?
According to this link:
http://www.crateenginedepot...2499470-P829C56.aspx
It's $4892 retail and $3954 on sale for 260 hp.
A N* is over $7000 retail and $4445 on sale and has 300hp. How much would a shop charge to install the N*? How many parts did you have to modify or make?
The ZZ4 is $3829 and has 355hp.

Any of the above can also be found for less thru other outlets and Ebay.

Point is cost between swaps can only be compared correctly is all things are equal.
Buying an install Kit vs. doing it yourself
used engine vs. new engine vs. Reman engine.

So there goes all arguments that any one particular swap is better/worse based on cost because the cost varies greatly by quality, location, and owner abilities.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Ok, maybe not. Let us know what your final cost was once you have a completed car.

You do realize that I am not both Coinage and crzyone, right?

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 01-29-2007).]

OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION

Larry Wheeler and I cruised up to the Daytona area to check out the PROJEKT 7 dyno and talk to the folks up there.


First off – Jerry (The Owner) told us that there is no deposit required. This is a “pay when you get there” arrangement.

The price is going to be $45.00 dollars for three runs. It’s posted on the outside $75.00, but Jerry is working with the group if they decide to do it.

There is not a “set in stone” number requirement of 10 cars – although it would be nice for PROJEKT 7.

This dyno has been used by Grassroots Motorsports and looks to be a very good situation.

-------

As one of the “Geriatrics” from the Keys run, I take offense regarding the statements made by Shaun Hammitt, not only to myself, but also to many others in the Fiero community. I have never printed anything derogatory about Shaun – but.

I do not understand why Shaun needs to have money upfront for this event based on what Jerry told us. This upfront money requirement plus his negative influence in the overall Fiero community leads me to the conclusion that it is not appropriate for Shaun to be linked to the Florida Fiero Weekend. This weekend was started so Fiero owners could get together to have a good time together. Shaun does not seem to fit this bill.

With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated. If someone within the sociable Fiero community would like to step forward and handle the dyno event, the folks at PROJEKT 7 will be more than willing to work with them WITHOUT SHAUN!!!


------------------
Frank


1986 GT
1987 5 Speed Lowered with 3800 s/c by



Signiture By Reality

1988 GT - T-Top
87 Coupe - Tilt Front End in Progress

http://floridafieros.org/daytona2007

[This message has been edited by Dragon (edited 01-29-2007).]

(grumpy ole man says) "Projekt7 don't mine me (an old geriatic guy) on the dyno huh? Dang nab bit, I may be old but, I sure got spunk."

quote Originally posted by Dragon: OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated.

Goodbye Mr. Hammitt

quote Originally posted by Dragon: OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION Larry Wheeler and I cruised up to the Daytona area to check out the PROJEKT 7 dyno and talk to the folks up there. First off – Jerry (The Owner) told us that there is no deposit required. This is a “pay when you get there” arrangement. The price is going to be $45.00 dollars for three runs. It’s posted on the outside $75.00, but Jerry is working with the group if they decide to do it. There is not a “set in stone” number requirement of 10 cars – although it would be nice for PROJEKT 7. This dyno has been used by Grassroots Motorsports and looks to be a very good situation. ------- As one of the “Geriatrics” from the Keys run, I take offense regarding the statements made by Shaun Hammitt, not only to myself, but also to many others in the Fiero community. I have never printed anything derogatory about Shaun – but. I do not understand why Shaun needs to have money upfront for this event based on what Jerry told us. This upfront money requirement plus his negative influence in the overall Fiero community leads me to the conclusion that it is not appropriate for Shaun to be linked to the Florida Fiero Weekend. This weekend was started so Fiero owners could get together to have a good time together. Shaun does not seem to fit this bill. With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated. If someone within the sociable Fiero community would like to step forward and handle the dyno event, the folks at PROJEKT 7 will be more than willing to work with them WITHOUT SHAUN!!!

What!!!!!!!!

Could Shaunbag have been looking to give himself a little "loan" for a couple of months by holding the $45/per person??????

If that's true & people PayPal'ed money to him, What are the chances that he would have refunded the $$$ if the even got cancelled or if he would have been removed for being a jerk like he's being removed now? Maybe that's why he was being even a bigger jerk in the last few weeks than he usually is.

If 10 people would have sent him $450.00 via his paypal & if he had gotten the boot for his behavior before the event (like he has now) what are the odds that Shaunbag would have refunded their money?

It begs the question, Did anyone already send him money?

It would appear that Shaunbag has been OWN3D.

Archie

------------------

After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel
Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........

quote Originally posted by crzyone: True, but why spend all that money on 245hp when you could spend the same or less for 300+? The 3800sc is very easy to get in the 300hp range. Guys like Stimpy dynod at 235hp at the wheels which is probibly close to 260 at the crank. A SC pully later and he would have been at or around 300.

Where did this "245hp" come from??? You can buy a used 305hp LT1 out of a 1996-1997 F-body from many sources. Why buy an engine then have to mod it to get to 300hp when there is already an engine producing that already? Want more power? Add a Hot Cam. There are many other bolt-ons for this engine to get more power out of it as well.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: BTW, you forgot to add the cost of accessories and electronics to those crate engines... Since when are we talking about crate engines? My N* from a rear ended 2003 STS cost me $1500 with less than 20k miles. That was the whole front end of the car!

My point was you need to compare them equally. So if you want to compare a 3800SC or SBC or N* swap, You need to use crate for all or used for all scenarios. Comparing a used 3800SC to a crate N* will make the 3800Sc swap look a few thousand less to do.
You spent $1500 on your engine. Archie spent $850 on a 270hp SBC. His $4K swap was $1000 less than your swap and only a 30hp difference. If you were to add $1000 of parts to a SBC, You would be around 330hp. (GM hot cam.) So it would cost $5000 and have more power.

So now which swap is better for cost vs. power???

N* = $16.60 per horsepower to swap
SBC with 330hp = $15.15 per horsepower to swap (ref: MotorTV had a 350 LT1 with a Hot Cam and dyno's 298 rwhp prior to the 383 turbo he now has.)
SBC with 270hp = $14.81 per horsepower to swap.

Just tell me which swap you want to make look better and/or worse and I can find parts at both ends of the cost spectrum to make it look the least or most expensive.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Dragon: OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION First off – Jerry (The Owner) told us that there is no deposit required. This is a “pay when you get there” arrangement. ------- his negative influence in the overall Fiero community leads me to the conclusion that it is not appropriate for Shaun to be linked to the Florida Fiero Weekend. . . . . . . . Shaun does not seem to fit this bill. With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated. . . . .. WITHOUT SHAUN!!!

I believe the proper word here would be

PW3RDZ ! ! !

------------------
HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by Dragon: OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION First off – Jerry (The Owner) told us that there is no deposit required. This is a “pay when you get there” arrangement.

Hey Shaunbag, it looks like you're going to need to start 4 more new Hate threads to try to take attention away for this one.

Better get to work.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Dragon: OFFICAL DYNO UPDATE INORMATION With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated.

Crzyone.

My 350 is a HO crate model rated at 330hp form the factory. My 350 isn't the base 245 hp. Where does this put your argument now? Are you suggesting that my 330hp engine is now only putting out 245 because of the TPI? If so Archie is in a heap of trouble. Me an my biker boyzs will rearanging some body parts - make mental note - bring shovel to bury evidence somewhere on the beach (Just kidding Archie)!

I also did not buy my 350HO/330 for HP braging rights. When I spoke to Archie I told him how I intended to drive my car and wanted something with some ommph - but not a tuning nightmare.

Now that Dragon has cleared the air about the dyno set-up - I sure hope someone local gets this going. I'll run it and finally know what she puts out. Not that I'll be any less happy with it. As far as I'm concerned the engine is a thing of beauty - maybe not the "best" hp/$ value - but I don't care. CHeck my build thread to see for yourself. Here is the link..

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/059675.html

Dragon, thanks so much for your recent post. I'd never pay up front unless it was a sanctioned Fiero meet event. I'm crazy, but not stupid... I am looking forward to meeting the bunch of you!

I know if I lived in Florida and was close to the dyno guys that I'd volunteer. Hope someone else does...

quote Originally posted by Dragon: With this in mind Shaun’s official participation in the weekend is terminated. If someone within the sociable Fiero community would like to step forward and handle the dyno event, the folks at PROJEKT 7 will be more than willing to work with them WITHOUT SHAUN!!!

Once again, Pennock's Forum successfully flushes the toilet.

Central Florida Fieros might think able taking the dyno on for Daytona. We have a meeting coming up on Thursday and this topic will be number one on our list. A lot of members are a little upset by the bad cloud this event has on it right now, but if one group can turn this around it would be the CFF guys. Lets put all the Shaurn crap a side and please post if you would be interested in running your cars if CFF was doing the event. I am not saying that we will, but if we have a large number of guys that want to run this should not be stopped because of one guy. Please post before Thursday so we can talk about at the meeting. Frank please keep CFF in mind for this event and let us talk about on Thursday.

Proud88GT

Just forget it. You can take the horse to the river but you may not make it drink water. A pulley would make that supercharged V6 make more hp and torque than any V8 and be easier and cheaper 240hp/344tq = anemic. 260hp/280Tq = Powerfull!!!

quote Originally posted by Proud88GT: Central Florida Fieros might think able taking the dyno on for Daytona. We have a meeting coming up on Thursday and this topic will be number one on our list. A lot of members are a little upset by the bad cloud this event has on it right now, but if one group can turn this around it would be the CFF guys. Lets put all the Shaurn crap a side and please post if you would be interested in running your cars if CFF was doing the event. I am not saying that we will, but if we have a large number of guys that want to run this should not be stopped because of one guy. Please post before Thursday so we can talk about at the meeting. Frank please keep CFF in mind for this event and let us talk about on Thursday. Proud88GT

Count me in!

quote Originally posted by Proud88GT: Central Florida Fieros might think able taking the dyno on for Daytona. We have a meeting coming up on Thursday and this topic will be number one on our list. A lot of members are a little upset by the bad cloud this event has on it right now, but if one group can turn this around it would be the CFF guys. Lets put all the Shaurn crap a side and please post if you would be interested in running your cars if CFF was doing the event. I am not saying that we will, but if we have a large number of guys that want to run this should not be stopped because of one guy. Please post before Thursday so we can talk about at the meeting. Frank please keep CFF in mind for this event and let us talk about on Thursday. Proud88GT

Mark me down, don't know which car I'm bringing yet, I've never taken the same car to the same show 2 years in a row yet. But I'm in for at least one spot.

And unlike Shaunbag, I'm a man of my word & I'm good for 50% of the 1st 10 cars.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 01-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by DrCPU: Crzyone. My 350 is a HO crate model rated at 330hp form the factory. My 350 isn't the base 245 hp. Where does this put your argument now? Are you suggesting that my 330hp engine is now only putting out 245 because of the TPI? If so Archie is in a heap of trouble. Me an my biker boyzs will rearanging some body parts - make mental note - bring shovel to bury evidence somewhere on the beach (Just kidding Archie)!

I'm not arguing with anyone, and I'm not talking about your engine. I'm talking about installing a bone stock TPI.

TPI engines are probibly the same price in a yard as an LT1, which is a great engine, I had one. I completely agree with Orief on buying an LT1, it has better output and probibly better economy than a TPI V-8. My LT1 was out of a caprice and had iron heads. I bought Corvette aluminum heads and an LT4 hotcam for it. It ended up costing me under $1k for the motor and wiring harness. All that was left then was to buy the LT1 installation kit.

I was using my N* as an example, but it is not a good good example to use since my ecu cost so much money ($2600us). I could have used a 99 or older N* and saved atleast 2 grand off the install price. $3k for 300hp is a bargain. $4k for 245hp, not so much.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm just saying if you are going to spend the money on an engine swap to make a good performing car then you might as well buy the best motor you can afford.

The N* reground cams are $600, plus another $150 for springs and retainers. Not bad for the added performance. I imagine you could make up to 100 more hp over stock if you use the more agressive cam profiles. The beauty of the N* is that it has less trani snapping torque and more upper RPM power. I took this into great consideration when picking an engine for my car.

Count me in if CFF runs the dyno event.

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Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8 - NOS