Small Who Hoo for woning page four...

quote Originally posted by crzyone: I'm not arguing with anyone, and I'm not talking about your engine. I'm talking about installing a bone stock TPI. TPI engines are probibly the same price in a yard as an LT1, which is a great engine, I had one. I completely agree with Orief on buying an LT1, it has better output and probibly better economy than a TPI V-8. My LT1 was out of a caprice and had iron heads. I bought Corvette aluminum heads and an LT4 hotcam for it. It ended up costing me under $1k for the motor and wiring harness. All that was left then was to buy the LT1 installation kit. I was using my N* as an example, but it is not a good good example to use since my ecu cost so much money ($2600us). I could have used a 99 or older N* and saved atleast 2 grand off the install price. $3k for 300hp is a bargain. $4k for 245hp, not so much. I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm just saying if you are going to spend the money on an engine swap to make a good performing car then you might as well buy the best motor you can afford. The N* reground cams are $600, plus another $150 for springs and retainers. Not bad for the added performance. I imagine you could make up to 100 more hp over stock if you use the more agressive cam profiles. The beauty of the N* is that it has less trani snapping torque and more upper RPM power. I took this into great consideration when picking an engine for my car.

Your point is great for a mechanic or someone has the ability to do this work and who has a place to work.

Although I love to work on my car I cannot due to lack of knowledge (engine work) and a place to work. I live in a 1000sq ft condo. I can't even change my oil on my property. To pay someone to replace cams would far outweigh the costs. Why do you think I went with a crate motor? I could have gone for a ZZ4 or had Archie replace the cam etc. I spent all the money I had - and some.

The other thing here in Ontario is that you cannot get insurance for a N* engine. The odd person who had N* years ago might be covered - but if you ever had an accident - your ass would be grass. For those who don't care about this - fine. Last time now - I needed an engine that would pass emission control, be fun and be somewhat unique. In itself the engine is a piece of art - not a POS or turd as eluded by those who hold a narrow view point that the sum of the bits and peices they add to their engine are the best way to go for everyone.

The world is not black and white. What is best for one person might be totally wrong for another. Can't you respect that?

I respect your opinion in the sense that if labour is free - why not. I don't agree on general statements about technologies - tearing something down just because I don't like it.

[This message has been edited by DrCPU (edited 01-30-2007).]

quote Originally posted by DrCPU: The world is not black and white. What is best for one person might be totally wrong for another. Can't you respect that?

I'm not disrespecting anyone or any swap.

quote I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm just saying if you are going to spend the money on an engine swap to make a good performing car then you might as well buy the best motor you can afford.

Archie can install an LT1 as easily as he can a TPI. Finding a used LT1 is easy. Finding a TPI is easy. Each swap might cost as little as $500 difference. Bang for buck definitly goes to the LT1.

I am not arguing against any particular engine, I am only using the TPI as an example of a low output sbc.

Off-topic post deleted.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-30-2007).]

I finally drudged through this topic. Riveting. I could ask this question to someone privately, but there might be others out there who want to know also... are we talking about the same Shaun that had the PFF username "Purple Reign"? I will withhold any comment about him, but I do know jscott1, and you simply will never - ever - meet a nicer guy.

Shaun Hammit - he used the screen name "The Punisher" last time he was on here officially.

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: I finally drudged through this topic. Riveting. I could ask this question to someone privately, but there might be others out there who want to know also... are we talking about the same Shaun that had the PFF username "Purple Reign"? I will withhold any comment about him, but I do know jscott1, and you simply will never - ever - meet a nicer guy.

No, It is Shaun Hammitt. He use to go by "shaun41178" and "punisher" back before he was banned. Now he is the other forums (RFT) self imposed PFF insulter.

quote Archie can install an LT1 as easily as he can a TPI. Finding a used LT1 is easy. Finding a TPI is easy. Each swap might cost as little as $500 difference. Bang for buck definitly goes to the LT1. I am not arguing against any particular engine, I am only using the TPI as an example of a low output sbc.

Actually, that's slightly incorrect. Also there are several other incorrect assumptions made in the arguements that have been made in this thread.

Yes a stock LT1 is a better performer than stock "TPI Engine" but it is also much more expensive.

Let me try to explain. I only install new engines. If a customer wants a used or re-built engine then he has to bring it with him & he takes responsibility if it doesn't run right. I only install the engine once for the price, if I have to remove it for repair or replacement of a bad engine the customer is paying that bill.

Also people talk about a "TPI engine", I've never installed a TPI engine. You can not buy a new TPI engine anymore. In fact you haven't been able to buy a new TPI engine since 1992. You also cannot buy a New TPI system from GM. You either have to buy a used TPI system & rebuild it or you have to buy a re-built Chromed (or not chromed) TPI system from one of many aftermarket vendors like Street & Performance (that's where I get most of mine). I don't do many LT1's anymore because you cannot buy new LT1 crate engines since 1997.

We put the TPI systems onto NEW GM Crate Engines. We also use completely new aftermarket wire harnesses & Chips from places like S&P to complete the swap with the best we can get.

As you know there is a massive aftermarket for SBC performance parts for the Hot Rodding industry because the SBC engines are used in all kinds of hot rods. You can look in any Het Rod type magazine & find a dozen companies that make parts, wire harnesses etc. for the SBC. For those that are doing many of the other swaps from 3.4's all the way thru NStars there is a very limited aftermarket & for the most part those guys have to do their own wire harnesses etc. as they do their swaps. With the SBC, you can make one phone call to any of a dozen or more suppliers & get everything you need to make it work on a Fiero or on a hot rod, you are not limited to the one or two suppliers who can make what you need. Also with the big aftermarket for the SBC, you are buying the TPI items from someone who has sold thousnds of their units in the last 10 years & they know how to burn chips and make plug & play wire harnesses based on exactly what you are working with.

Many of the cost comparisons have also been unfair because because they compare the price of a used NStar or 3800SC with a home made installation kit & a home made wiring harness to the prices of our new crate engines & professionally made harnesses & chips.

There are people who ***** me out because I don't burn my own chips etc. But I don't have to do that to optimize the performance of a TPI. The people I get the chips from have done thousands of them. All I have to do is tell them the particulars of the swap I'm doing & I'll have the chip in a couple of days. It's never failed yet.

Let's take DrCPU's car for example. It's uning a 350HO GM crate engine rated at 330 HP. It has the GM Fast Burn heads, no stock TPI system will fit or work with those heads so it has a new high flow TPI manifold developed by Scrogg & Dickie & manufactured by Edelbrock, it has the LT1 Throttle Body & Edelbrock high flow runners. The only Genuine GM parts that are on that system are the upper intake & the fuel rails. Everything else is aftermarket. So it's not the "TPI Engine" that has been talked about so much in this thread.

That should give you some understanding of what actually is going on here.

I could go on but I gotta run.

Thanks

Archie

Thanks for the clarification Archie.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Thanks for the clarification Archie.

No problem, I've seen the references to "TPI engines" in so many threads over the years that I've given up on trying to respond to each one. I'm sure that the references to "TPI engines" in this thread were actually refering to stock "TPI engines" & not the TPI installations onto crate engines that we do under the circumstances that I explained above. So no one should feel ofended by my explaination.

Over the years I think I've only had about 20 customers who have installed "TPI engines" out of stock GM vehicles. And I'm also sure that most of those customers went back later & upgraded their engines & TPI systems when they could afford it.

Archie

Say what you want, but I just had to have it. If I were to dyno the car it would just be for fun and not to prove that "mine is bigger than yours" Never had that problem

quote Originally posted by Archie: I'm sure that the references to "TPI engines" in this thread were actually refering to stock "TPI engines" & not the TPI installations onto crate engines that we do under the circumstances that I explained above. So no one should feel ofended by my explaination. Archie

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure people were referring to the stock TPI motors from the 80s. I had a 305 TPI motor in my 88 Trans Am and it was okay for it's day. But it probably barely made 200 hp at the crank when it was new. I can't imagine someone taking a 20 year old junk yard motor and swapping it in their Fiero, at least without rebuilding it first. That probably would be a waste of time.

quote [B] Say what you want, but I just had to have it. If I were to dyno the car it would just be for fun and not to prove that "mine is bigger than yours" Never had that problem

I totally agree. We went to a CFF event at Don Garlits' Museum last year and a bunch of Cobra's were doing the dyno - way cool. So I thought I'd like to see a bunch of Fieros doing the same thing and that is why I offered to buy dinner (pre-shaunbag) for anyone who dyno'ed more hp then my car (without the NOS) - in an attempt to create interest in the event at Daytona, Since Archie is now sponsoring half the dyno cost for the first 10 entrants, I'll pay the other half for any of those first ten who out dyno my car (again, without the spray). My engine really isn't anything special - its an old 345 hp ZZ3 SBC (been in the car since 1994) with a custom Inglese Holley carb, roller tip rockers, MSD digital distributor, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster coil, and Sanderson headers. Looking forward to seeing you all there!

------------------

Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8 - NOS

Good post Archie, and I completely agree with you.

For the buget minded builder, a used engine is a very good option. You definitly can't do a $4k sbc swap with a new crate motor. I am just trying to say that if a swapper were to choose a used engine, an LT1 is much better than an older TPI if he could find one.

I'm just arguing cost/hp, I'm not dissing anybody.

The Northstar is not for everyone. To install it yourself is relativly cheap but somewhat difficult. To have someone else install it will cost a lot of $$.

Edit to add, I wish I could be there. A fiero dyno day would be fun.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 01-30-2007).]

By the way - my offer is for Fieros only and excludes Shaunbag. See the rest of you there.

------------------

Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8 - NOS

I didn't feel like reading past the first page. If the next few pages had anything of substance in them, PM me please. Otherwise, I'll just assume the first page carried over to the next three.

I'll be there with at least 2 cars. One will definately be a Fiero. I'd like to redyno my Camaro again. The last one was when it was stock in 2003. I'd like to see what it does now. Think that would be allowed? If the L67 runs by then I'll bring it too.

Thanks,
Chuck Peterson

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: So I thought I'd like to see a bunch of Fieros doing the same thing and that is why I offered to buy dinner (pre-shaunbag) for anyone who dyno'ed more hp then my car (without the NOS) - in an attempt to create interest in the event at Daytona, Since Archie is now sponsoring half the dyno cost for the first 10 entrants, I'll pay the other half for any of those first ten who out dyno my car (again, without the spray). My engine really isn't anything special - its an old 345 hp ZZ3 SBC (been in the car since 1994) with a custom Inglese Holley carb, roller tip rockers, MSD digital distributor, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster coil, and Sanderson headers. Looking forward to seeing you all there!

Well, that sucks What about me. The only reason I was going to get on the Dyno was for that free Steak dinner.

After all, I understand that I'll be in bankruptcy for the 27th time by then so otherwise I won't eat. I needed that meal, I'm so poor.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: After all, I understand that I'll be in bankruptcy for the 27th time by then Archie

ROTFLMAO!

quote Originally posted by Archie: No problem, I've seen the references to "TPI engines" in so many threads over the years that I've given up on trying to respond to each one. I'm sure that the references to "TPI engines" in this thread were actually refering to stock "TPI engines" & not the TPI installations onto crate engines that we do under the circumstances that I explained above. So no one should feel ofended by my explaination. Over the years I think I've only had about 20 customers who have installed "TPI engines" out of stock GM vehicles. And I'm also sure that most of those customers went back later & upgraded their engines & TPI systems when they could afford it. Archie

As already mentioned. Thanks for the clarification.

I was just wondering as you deal with pocketbook hottrodders. Why wouldnt you point them into another direction. Is it the TPI looks cool factor?

I think the "heres a check, build me a car I have no idea about" customers would like to know ALL options.

I just dont see a TPI helping any kind of motor. I dont care what kinda performance air gap manifold you have on it.

Id love to see Dyno results to prove me wrong.

If its as good as everyone says, I might have one in mine.

Thanks

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: As already mentioned. Thanks for the clarification. I was just wondering as you deal with pocketbook hottrodders. Why wouldnt you point them into another direction. Is it the TPI looks cool factor? I think the "heres a check, build me a car I have no idea about" customers would like to know ALL options. I just dont see a TPI helping any kind of motor. I dont care what kinda performance air gap manifold you have on it. Id love to see Dyno results to prove me wrong. If its as good as everyone says, I might have one in mine. Thanks

If your term "pocketbook hottrodders" means people that can afford whatever they want then, I don't have that many. However, you can be assured that when a customer wants a turn-key, I spend as much time at it takes going over engine & intake options that can meet their goals.

One reason we do so many SBC swaps is Value. There are a lot of people out there that have 3800SC & NStar swaps done by professionals using used engines, that have cost more that what I'd charge to do a brand new LS1 engine swap for them. And some of those swaps have languished at the builders' shop or more than a year without being completed. Because we know exactly what it takes to do a SBC & we can get them out the door in a matter of weeks.

Another reason we do so many SBC swaps is Value. Some people beat up on the SBC swap because you have to have a kit to do the swap. But the "kit" includes a lot of parts that you're going to have to use on any swap wether you need an adapter plate or not. Let's say your going to do a swap & you want 300 HP. No matter what engine you use, if it's making 300 HP you're going to need a larger radiator to keep it cool, you're going to need a preformance clutch, your going to need a custom exhaust system, you're going to need hoses & pipes to hook up the cooling system, you're going to need mounting bracketry for the accessories & the engine to cradle mounting, your going to need a custom or modified flywheel etc. The "kit" word should not be considered a negative term.

Another reason we do so many SBC swaps is Value. (yep I used "Value" 3 times) A lot of people have a goal of a minimum of 300 HP for their Fiero. To get this a lot of swappers of "other" engines have to buy cams, TB's, custom ECM's or ECM programming etc. It would be real easy to eat up your savings from not buying a "kit" by having to buy these kinds of items to bring your engine of choice up the that 300hp goal. The SBC swapper can just buy a 300 HP engine over the counter from GM or Jeg's or Summit & be assured that all those componets in the engine have been designed to work together. And you can be assured that because those suppliers sell thousands of crate engines a year they've put those engine combos on Dynos to assure that they make the advertized HP.

A lot of my customers know exactly what they want when the come in here. There's really only a few options on the intake side. If I direct them into the least expensive intake situation which would be Carburation, then someone will call them names like Neanderthal or Knuckledragger. If I direct them on a budget to TPI then someone will call it a "Turd". So sometimes you can't win.

I don't know what you mean about air gap TPI manifold but no one makes anything like that for TPI. Someone who keeps beating up on TPI calling it a Turd should know that there's no such thing as a air gap TPI manifold. Otherwise you'd have to think that he doesn't really have any 1st hand knowledge to back up his "Turd" opinion of TPI.

Maybe TPI issn't the fastest thing in the world but the driveability & ease of service makes it something you can use for a daily driver. I actually like the TPI systems better than carbs because they can actually be driven everyday & everywhere like a regular car. Everywhere in the country there is some who can service & supply parts for a SBC & TPI. Some of the Aftermarket injection systems can be faster on a given engine, but they can become pretty expensive & to the casual observer the Throttle body looks like a carburator getting you back to the Neanderthal or Knuckledragger comments. And serviceability a long way from home can be a problem.

Summary: IMHO, (<~~ In My Humble Opinion!!!) Most of the people who rag on SBC Fieros have never actually driven one or have rode in one that was properly put together. Again IMHO, most people who enter into threads about SBC's and try to put the SBC's down are people who are trying to justify their own "other" engine choices. If you search thru a lot of past threads on engine choices, you'll see threads about all of the different engine swaps. If you read those fairly, You'll see that very few threads on NStars or 3800 SC's or 3.4 DOHC's are interrupted by SBC people trying to put those swaps own. But you'll find dozens of threads LIKE THIS ONE (that's not even about SBC's) where people will come in & turn it into a SBC bashing party by calling them "turds" & the like.

Ask yourself..... "Why is that?

Thanks

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 01-31-2007).]

Archie. Check your PMs. Thanks.

I received the following personal email from "Shaunbag." I think maybe it was intended for Dragon. I have never met this person and I don't think I care to. I think the email speaks for itself (and Shaunbag).

"Thank you for driving up and setting it up yourself. its what I wanted from
the beginning. I never wanted to organize it in the first place. So kudos.

Way to take the high road and use name calling. I am buttsore that some old
fart is calling me names. FYI I am the one that started using the term
"bag" in peoples names. SO in essence you are trying to be like me. I am
flattered that you think my method of speech is cool and that you like to
imitate it, and me.

Your offer doesnt' stand in paying for my run if I beat you? If a 4 cyl
turbo comes and beats your numbers, will you pay for that person? You
afraid of a 4 banger? You afraid of my little V6?

Its cool to see a grown adult such as yourself so petty about it, yet you
love to talk about how much more mature you are then me. Look at you,
acting like a 10 year who didnt' get any good halloween candy.

You mean I would have to pay $45? Oh no. Not that you care, but I have
spent hundreds on dyno time already. How much have you spent in the past 13
years since you had your swap done? Hell how much have you spent on track
days to run the qtr mile in the past 13 years? I bet its $0 for both. Do
you even plan on spraying it on the dyno? If you dont' have a full bottle,
I will have one so I can lend it to you for the dyno.

So in 13 years you have never taken it to the track? WOw dude, you are the
typical V8 fiero owner. Just going for the wow factor. Have you even
sprayed the nitrous yet? or is it just for show? Is it for the wow factor?
CAUSE WOW! I am amazed!!

I can guess why you haven't ever taken it to the track. Blown trannies!!
You know you will blow it. Its in the back of every SBC fiero owners mind.
I think its funny cletus says the isuzu is fine beind a "350" hp SBC, but
yet people break them on stock 2.8's. Its my guess, the SBC crowd drives
like Miss Daisy. Hell a tranny made of straw could hold up to the way you
old farts drive them.

I hope a bunch of SBC guys show up and dyno. I can't wait to see the sub
250 whp swaps there are out there. I can't wait to laugh my ass off.

Later on
Shaunbag"

------------------

Tom Corey
Melbourne, FL
87 Green T-Top GT 5Spd SBC ZZ3 V8 - NOS

Please put me down on the list for Dyno runs.

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: I received the following personal email from "Shaunbag." I think maybe it was intended for Dragon. I have never met this person and I don't think I care to. I think the email speaks for itself (and Shaunbag). "blah, blah, blah, blah, Later on Shaunbag"

HaHaHa, Thanks for the laughs.
All he's doing is looking for attention. Just ignore him.

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: I received the following personal email from "Shaunbag." I think maybe it was intended for Dragon. I have never met this person and I don't think I care to. I think the email speaks for itself (and Shaunbag). Blah, blah, blah, Later on Shaunbag"

Wow, Mr. Shaun sounded really polite in that email, compared to the obscenity laced racist crap he unloaded in my inbox. I think yahoo is still trying to disenfect all the bile he unloaded in there.

I can only thank CFF for stepping up to host the Dyno runs. I most likely won't be dyno-ing my stock 2.8 as there is no point to it.

Way to take the high road and use name calling. I am buttsore that some old
fart is calling me names. FYI I am the one that started using the term
"bag" in peoples names. SO in essence you are trying to be like me. I am
flattered that you think my method of speech is cool and that you like to
imitate it, and me.

Your offer doesnt' stand in paying for my run if I beat you? If a 4 cyl
turbo comes and beats your numbers, will you pay for that person? You
afraid of a 4 banger? You afraid of my little V6?

Its cool to see a grown adult such as yourself so petty about it, yet you
love to talk about how much more mature you are then me. Look at you,
acting like a 10 year who didnt' get any good halloween candy.

You mean I would have to pay $45? Oh no. Not that you care, but I have
spent hundreds on dyno time already. How much have you spent in the past 13
years since you had your swap done? Hell how much have you spent on track
days to run the qtr mile in the past 13 years? I bet its $0 for both. Do
you even plan on spraying it on the dyno? If you dont' have a full bottle,
I will have one so I can lend it to you for the dyno.

So in 13 years you have never taken it to the track? WOw dude, you are the
typical V8 fiero owner. Just going for the wow factor. Have you even
sprayed the nitrous yet? or is it just for show? Is it for the wow factor?
CAUSE WOW! I am amazed!!

I can guess why you haven't ever taken it to the track. Blown trannies!!
You know you will blow it. Its in the back of every SBC fiero owners mind.
I think its funny cletus says the isuzu is fine beind a "350" hp SBC, but
yet people break them on stock 2.8's. Its my guess, the SBC crowd drives
like Miss Daisy. Hell a tranny made of straw could hold up to the way you
old farts drive them.

I hope a bunch of SBC guys show up and dyno. I can't wait to see the sub
250 whp swaps there are out there. I can't wait to laugh my ass off.

Later on
Shaunbag"


[/QUOTE]

After reading that I no longer wonder were they find all those people on the Jerry Springer Show.
This is an individual that really should seek out therapy or help of some kind, quick...
------------------
8T6 GT

[This message has been edited by red GT (edited 01-31-2007).]

quote Originally posted by red GT: After reading that I no longer wonder were they find all those people on the Jerry Springer Show. This is an individual that really should seek out therapy or help of some kind, quick...

He doesn't need therapy, he's got "Real Fiero Tech", where there's a bunch just like him to keep him company. BTW, that's where all the effuent goes when we flush it.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I don't know what you mean about air gap TPI manifold but no one makes anything like that for TPI. Someone who keeps beating up on TPI calling it a Turd should know that there's no such thing as a air gap TPI manifold. Otherwise you'd have to think that he doesn't really have any 1st hand knowledge to back up his "Turd" opinion of TPI. Maybe TPI issn't the fastest thing in the world but the driveability & ease of service makes it something you can use for a daily driver. I actually like the TPI systems better than carbs because they can actually be driven everyday & everywhere like a regular car. Everywhere in the country there is some who can service & supply parts for a SBC & TPI. Some of the Aftermarket injection systems can be faster on a given engine, but they can become pretty expensive & to the casual observer the Throttle body looks like a carburator getting you back to the Neanderthal or Knuckledragger comments. And serviceability a long way from home can be a problem. Summary: IMHO, (<~~ In My Humble Opinion!!!) Most of the people who rag on SBC Fieros have never actually driven one or have rode in one that was properly put together. Again IMHO, most people who enter into threads about SBC's and try to put the SBC's down are people who are trying to justify their own "other" engine choices. If you search thru a lot of past threads on engine choices, you'll see threads about all of the different engine swaps. If you read those fairly, You'll see that very few threads on NStars or 3800 SC's or 3.4 DOHC's are interrupted by SBC people trying to put those swaps own. But you'll find dozens of threads LIKE THIS ONE (that's not even about SBC's) where people will come in & turn it into a SBC bashing party by calling them "turds" & the like. Ask yourself..... "Why is that? Thanks Archie

Im not bashing you Archie, or the SBC swap. TPI is the bastard child of the V8.

Kinda like those V8 180 HP 6.6 liters from the 70s.

Im not trying to put the SBC down. My example of the manifold was a poor one, I apologize.

I have no 1st hand experience from YOUR TPI builds compared to the builds of the early 90s TPI powerplants. (the dudes from school)

I know those TPI were A$$, even with some basic upgrades. Theres my 1st hand knowledge.

I have a carbed V8 and no driveabilty issues, so I dont know what ANYONE means by that. Just like with anything, you have to take care of your car.

I am wholeheartedly a knuckledraager, and that isnt a bad thing.

Yes your swap is a good value, but kinda like a 4.9. Its a V8, but its a embarrasing V8.

Thats where the V8 bashing comes from.

Everyone says its a V8, blah, blah, blah, who cares if its sllooowwwwwww.

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: TPI is the bastard child of the V8.

You keep stating opinion as though it were fact.

YOU don't like TPI. Fine. Don't use one. But for what it was designed to do, it was, and still is, as solid design. Not the most high tech, but certainly capable.

I suggest "the dudes from school" learn how to build and tune an engine - or possibly save up to buy some good parts instead of expecting to throw together a junkyard 305 and make 300HP. A properly built TPI can achieve over 400HP, without any power adder and still be quite driveable.

YOU don't want to use a TPI, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's why there's so many options out there and one of the great things about hot rodding - you build your car the way YOU want it. But stop acting like your opinion of TPI is the only correct one. TPI was far from "the bastard child" of the V8. From the mid '80's to the early 90's, the most powerful small block Chevys built came with TPI, and they were more powerful than anything since the muscle car era.

------------------
When the chips are down, the Buffalo is empty.

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: TPI is the bastard child of the V8.

I thought the "Crossfire" induction system had that distinction?

I can't understand where there is so much arguing and name calling over engine swaps. There are a few things that have to be taken into account, and those factors pretty much negate the debate...

1. Wallet size. Many, if not most people doing an engine swap, have a budget. They have $X to spend. If we all had $50,000 to spend, we could all buy the biggest, baddest, highest hp/liter engine with a 6 speed race tranny, supercharger, etc. We all don't. We all have different wallet sizes.

2. Goals. We don't all have the same goals for our cars after the swap. Some guys absolutely MUST have the most power humanly possible in their car. They HAVE to be the fastest, for whatever reason. Ego? Bragging rights? Satisfaction of building the fastest car they can? Whatever, the reasons are all different, so the goals for the swap are all differnent.

For example, I bought a Pontiac Superduty 4 cylinder engine and race tranny setup. One or two people said "you could have bought a lot more powerful setup for the money". Yeah, I know. My goal wasn't max HP per dollar or liter, it was historical value. I wanted to build a Pace Car replica for taking to the track. I've since decided to sell the setup, and build something different. My goals changed, so my swap choice is changing.

3. With the above reasons taken into account, trying to compare engine swaps is no different than comparing apples and oranges. If a TPI swap is the cheapest V8 swap, and a guy wants a V8, then that's his choice. Maybe his goal isn't bragging rights, maybe he just wants more power than a V6, and doesn't give a crap whether his car will be the best on dyno day. Maybe he doesn't give a rats ass about winning the bragging rights game with Shaunna and RFT.

I can't believe people argue so much about whether apples are oranges are better. Unless someone is bragging about how great their car is, who cares?

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: ... Is it the TPI looks cool factor?...

Definitely yes. Personally I think the TPI intake is the most beautiful metal intake (probably plastic too) GM has ever done in a production car. LT1s/LSx/N* all need those plastic covers. These can be made to shine. And like mentioned before you can make them perform very well too. If you don't believe it then read here: http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...otout-feb-super.html
Personally I could have bought any intake if I wanted top HP. But the TPI looks, great torque and easiness of wiring set me up. And the beauty of the SBCs is that I can change any time if I want too

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Definitely yes. Personally I think the TPI intake is the most beautiful metal intake (probably plastic too) GM has ever done in a production car. LT1s/LSx/N* all need those plastic covers. These can be made to shine.

I agree 110%. I don't know if that is a valid reason to select and engine, but I believe the TPI intake looks better than most anything that has ever come out of GM, (with only the LT5 as an exception). I used to love to pop the hood on my TPI and just look at it.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I don't know if that is a valid reason to select and engine,...

If someone likes it, is that not reason enough?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I thought the "Crossfire" induction system had that distinction?

You might enjoy this. http://www.x-ram.com/

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You keep stating opinion as though it were fact.

I didnt realize I was coming across that way. If I was I wasnt trying to. sorry

quote YOU don't like TPI. Fine. Don't use one. But for what it was designed to do, it was, and still is, as solid design. Not the most high tech, but certainly capable.

Yes capable, never said it wasnt

quote I suggest "the dudes from school" learn how to build and tune an engine - or possibly save up to buy some good parts instead of expecting to throw together a junkyard 305 and make 300HP. A properly built TPI can achieve over 400HP, without any power adder and still be quite driveable.

Yes they did know how to tune and put $$ into the TPI. No reason to save up when TPI is what came in the car.
Properly built and more $$$. They could have had a more powerful SBC for the $$$ they dumped into it.
Driveable yes, getting beat by the kid with a POS turboed 4 banger, ALL DAY LONG.

quote YOU don't want to use a TPI, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's why there's so many options out there and one of the great things about hot rodding - you build your car the way YOU want it. But stop acting like your opinion of TPI is the only correct one. TPI was far from "the bastard child" of the V8. From the mid '80's to the early 90's, the most powerful small block Chevys built came with TPI, and they were more powerful than anything since the muscle car era.

Again, I didnt know I was acting like that. I apologize again. Yes, most powerful SBC for the time,The V8 "dark ages, I like to call them, 74-92 , then the GNX came out in 87 and embarrased the vette. A POS turboed V6, imagine that

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I thought the "Crossfire" induction system had that distinction?

I thought that was only a 4 yr run? Does anyone even recognize those pathetic V8s from the mid 70s to early 80s? I dont.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Definitely yes. Personally I think the TPI intake is the most beautiful metal intake (probably plastic too) GM has ever done in a production car. LT1s/LSx/N* all need those plastic covers.

LSx have all aluminum intakes available. Those Plastic ones werent cutting it for boosted applications

quote And the beauty of the SBCs is that I can change any time if I want too

Are you really going to? If thats your engine in the 1st pic I highly doubt it.

quote

It does look sweet. Awesome job whoever did it.


OK if you like TPI fine. I wasnt trying to "make" people not like the engine. Just pointing out the obvious, or not so obvious.

Good Day to you all.

keep Fieroing

quote Originally posted by fierobear: He doesn't need therapy, he's got "Real Fiero Tech", where there's a bunch just like him to keep him company. BTW, that's where all the effuent goes when we flush it.

Keep it in the trashcan goober.

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: It does look sweet. Awesome job whoever did it. .. Are you really going to? If thats your engine in the 1st pic I highly doubt it...

Yes that red one is mine. And why you doubt it? And the aluminum LSx look great chromed but still have those plastic covers. But then still a nice choice of engine if overall swap wasn't that complicated.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 02-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by crzyone: Keep it in the trashcan goober.

It's interesting that I'm the only one you replied to about it.

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: Yes they did know how to tune and put $$ into the TPI. No reason to save up when TPI is what came in the car. Properly built and more $$$. They could have had a more powerful SBC for the $$$ they dumped into it. Driveable yes, getting beat by the kid with a POS turboed 4 banger, ALL DAY LONG.

Whenever I hear that argument, I have to ask, if all they're concerned with is how much power they can get for the money, why didn't they buy a rusting out 1980 Fairmont and put a junkyard 460 in it? It's more HP for the $$$.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-01-2007).]